Sleep

[gmillerdrake]

I looked for a thread that discussed sleep in particular but really didn't see one....so here one is.

I don't get a lot of sleep. It's all self inflicted mostly due to the amount of coffee I drink (between-50-80oz a day) and this weird compulsion I have that makes me think I'm going to 'miss out' on something if I fall asleep.....and a feeling of I have to squeeze every last minute out of the day. No matter how tired I am in the morning and how many times I tell myself I'm going to go to sleep 'early' that night.....boom....next thing you know I'm up until 1 or 2 AM....usually watching something on TV

I still function 'normally'....at least I think I do. But, on a typical night I'm probably 6 hours or so of sleep and that's interrupted sleep as I'll wake up a handful of times here and there. The reason for me creating this thread is because last night....I had a bout of Sleep Paralysis and it was the weirdest/scariest thing that's happened to me in quite some time.

I woke up in the middle of the night....don't know what time it was because I couldn't move my head.....but I was frozen. Tried to move, couldn't. Just literally frozen. I think it went on for 3-5 minutes and I must have fallen back to sleep. I later woke up and was 'fine'. It was so freaking weird.

So I Googled causes of sleep paralysis and one of the major ones is lack of sleep. They also mentioned stress. This new job I took 8 months ago is certainly more work and more 'stressful' but I never really look at it like 'stress'....it's just a harder job that requires more of me. But man....I nailed two of the symptoms right off the bat.

[King Postwhore]

I'm dealing with this a lot.  I wake up every 2 hours.  I never get deep REM sleep.  I can fall asleep any time of the day.

[Ben_Jamin]

Doing things that can help calm your mind before you go to bed can help ease the stress.

Also, don't drink coffee all day. Too much caffeine can cause issues with sleeping

https://www.sleepfoundation.org/nutrition/caffeine-and-sleep

If you drink that much and it causes sleep problems. Adding in the stress will cause a lot more sleep issues.

Lots of things cause stress, and harder jobs requiring more work of you means you will experience stress as you adapt to the job that requires more work from you. Stress doesn't care how you look at it, stress is stress.

Also, Doing things that can help get you sleepy, like reading a book, listeníng to calm soothing music, there's lots of great atmospheric soundscapes to listen to. What it is, is not engaging your mind and making your mind more active. Watching TV makes your mind active by focusing the eyes on the movements on the screen and adjusting for the light differences of Night. It's eye straining, and makes your brain do more work, when it is trying to rest. This can cause stress on your brain as it wants sleep, but is denying that rest.

And that's not including the Sun energies we receive that makes us get and feel droopy sometimes. That feeling of, tiredness and not wanting to do anything. But spending time in the sun helps alleviate that. It can also help burn excess energy you have during the day. Doing exercises also burns those energies that can possibly build up at the end of the night.

[KevShmev]

Sleep issues suck. I was diagnosed with a mild case of apnea about 5 years ago, meaning I barely cleared the threshold to get the CPAP machine that is supposed to help, but it never did. I could never keep the mask on, and it took me forever to get to sleep every night with having that thing on, so I eventually just stopped trying to use it.  I get about 5-7 hours of sleep a night, but it is never uninterrupted. I wake up 2-3 times a night to pee and feel tired every single day. It's exhausting, no pun intended.

[Chino]

I had ISP really terribly as a kid. These days, I only experience episodes if I fall asleep during the day and I'm sleeping on my back. Every now and then it'll happen at night while in my bed, but it's super rare. Over the years I've perfected a "break out" method. I know when I'm experiencing ISP, and there's a certain series of thoughts I can generate and muscles I focus on in a particular order to snap myself out of it. I start on both pinky fingers and I'm able to get both hands working fully in just a few seconds. The rest of me follows pretty quickly after that. An ISP episode never lasts more than 10-15 seconds or so these days. When I was in my single digit years, they'd last for what felt like minutes. Just seeing red and hearing a deafening ring in both ears as I was unable to move. Good times! 

[gmillerdrake]

I know that I consume entirely too much caffeine.....and that my sleep habits are horrible. Like I said, it's like some compulsion to wring every last drop of the day out of the day. Benjamin....I agree that stress is stress and for the majority of my life I've handled 'stress' pretty well. It wasn't until taking this new job that is WAY more demanding and busy than any job I've ever had that I really started to feel 'stress' knocking at the door.

I do need to make some lifestyle changes and my sleep habits are on the top of the list.


Brian....I can't imagine having to deal with sleep paralysis on a regular basis, especially as a kid. It was freaky enough just experiencing it last night as an adult. That had to be frightening.

[cramx3]

I got a samsung smart watch a few months ago and I find the sleep tracking to be very interesting... and maybe it's showing something of concern for me.  I very rarely get any deep sleep.  I don't often feel so exhausted or anything like that, I usually get 7-8 hours, but because none of it is deep sleep, the app ranks my sleep as very poor. 

[EPICVIEW]

great subject  so important to ones health

[jingle.boy]

Posting, so that I remember to come back here with some of my thoughts/experiences (none regarding paralysis though).

[Ben_Jamin]

I know that I consume entirely too much caffeine.....and that my sleep habits are horrible. Like I said, it's like some compulsion to wring every last drop of the day out of the day. Benjamin....I agree that stress is stress and for the majority of my life I've handled 'stress' pretty well. It wasn't until taking this new job that is WAY more demanding and busy than any job I've ever had that I really started to feel 'stress' knocking at the door.

I do need to make some lifestyle changes and my sleep habits are on the top of the list.


Brian....I can't imagine having to deal with sleep paralysis on a regular basis, especially as a kid. It was freaky enough just experiencing it last night as an adult. That had to be frightening.

I find it amazing how people will put their entire health at risk for a job (Not directed at you at all). And that is a product of our Society. And I myself, feel, Society itself is causing many Health Issues. We are causing these ourselves. Because of how Society demands so much from us, that the demand is impacting our overall Mentality which affects our health in the long run. As it creates more stress, and it's stress humans out on themselves, and make it more harder on themselves.

In turn, this affects our sleep patterns and we require other things to keep us awake or even mentally aware. We require products to do these things so we could be a good cog in the wheel of Society.


I don't have Sleep Paralysis, but I do get Night Terrors. Which is when you are basically awake in a dream, and you are trying to get someone to wake you up, I would be trying to pound on the wall or trying to throw stuff, to make noise. I can get up and go to the doors, but I usually wake up by then, and I am in a sweat sometimes.

I don't get them as much anymore, and that was due to me drinking excessively. Now I do not get these, but when I do, it's usually because I go to bed stressed, mad, or angry.

I also, am able to vivid dream and do things in my dreams like fly and can take controll of certain aspects of my dreams, but that is only when I realize it. But usually, i just go with the flow. I have recurring dreams that have the same exact scenery as before, and In my dream world, these places are the same structuralluy, and when I ask others about dreams, they sometimes share the same scenery. Which is fascinating in itself.

[kirksnosehair]

Ok, long, LONG time chronic insomnia sufferer here.  The only thing that has worked for me is drugs.  I tried all the non-drug options first.  At one point I had eliminated all caffein and sugar from my diet.  No difference.  Without drugs I'm lucky to get 4 or 5 hours.  With drugs I've had good results.  My doctor says taking the drugs is fine, I'm on a very low dose of Ambien.  I get the 2.5mg tablets (they go up to 10mg) and I break those in half, so I take about 1.25mg of Ambien each night.  It works.  I go to bed at 8pm and most nights I sleep until 4am, waking up once or twice to take a piss.


I can still sleep without the Ambien but it's fitful sleep and I wake up anywhere from 6 to 10 times throughout the night.  Since I started taking the Ambien my sleep has improved a great deal. 


Better living through chemistry.  There are no side effects and it works.  For me that's case closed.  My doctor says I can take them as long as I want and insurance pays so my prescription is $7.00 for a 1 month supply. 

[hunnus2000]

No sleep issues here and I am one happy camper when I can get a nap in on the weekends. I am not a coffee drinker and I try to get about 90oz of water everyday. Dreams can be something else though. I  have afib and sometimes I wonder if my more intense dreams cause the afib or do I go into afib and then I dream stressful dreams.

I once took as dream psychology course in college that was pretty helpful in analyzing my dreams. Really neat stuff!

[Herrick]

gmillerdrake that really sounds terrifying. I've never heard of sleep paralysis before. I hope you can get that treated.

I have problems sleeping but I've never experienced anything like that before.

[Cool Chris]

I am so thankful that at this point in my life, 6 nights out of 7 I get a solid 7 hours of sleep with no interruption (unless I get a call from nature or a kid wakes up needing something). All through my 20s I slept horribly, waking up frequently, being unable to get back to sleep, tossing and turning for hours. There was too much stress and anxiety, a general sense of not being able to shut down for the night, and an inability to cope with everything I was going through.

I have found listening to some ASMR when I lay down helps me sleep too.

I can also say that if we get another dog at some point after ours passes, there is no way it will be allowed on our bed. I will fight that battle to the divorce court with my wife. Our dog will start licking his feet or ass or something in the middle of the night and won't stop till he wakes us both up and one of us kicks him out and shuts the door.

[wolfking]

I looked for a thread that discussed sleep in particular but really didn't see one....so here one is.

I don't get a lot of sleep. It's all self inflicted mostly due to the amount of coffee I drink (between-50-80oz a day)and this weird compulsion I have that makes me think I'm going to 'miss out' on something if I fall asleep.....and a feeling of I have to squeeze every last minute out of the day. No matter how tired I am in the morning and how many times I tell myself I'm going to go to sleep 'early' that night.....boom....next thing you know I'm up until 1 or 2 AM....usually watching something on TV

I still function 'normally'....at least I think I do. But, on a typical night I'm probably 6 hours or so of sleep and that's interrupted sleep as I'll wake up a handful of times here and there. The reason for me creating this thread is because last night....I had a bout of Sleep Paralysis and it was the weirdest/scariest thing that's happened to me in quite some time.

I woke up in the middle of the night....don't know what time it was because I couldn't move my head.....but I was frozen. Tried to move, couldn't. Just literally frozen. I think it went on for 3-5 minutes and I must have fallen back to sleep. I later woke up and was 'fine'. It was so freaking weird.

So I Googled causes of sleep paralysis and one of the major ones is lack of sleep. They also mentioned stress. This new job I took 8 months ago is certainly more work and more 'stressful' but I never really look at it like 'stress'....it's just a harder job that requires more of me. But man....I nailed two of the symptoms right off the bat.

That's your problem right there, bloody hell.

[emtee]

If I'm lucky, I'll get five hours of broken sleep. This goes for 4 or 5 days, at which time I'm exhausted and can sleep 6 hours. Rinse and repeat.

Not trying to contradict KNH, but there are actually numerous side effects for Ambien. Most physicians, due to liability issues, will either not prescribe Ambien at all, or will do so for a minimal period time. If you happen to have one that will allow you to stay on it long-term, you're very lucky.

[lonestar]

Aside from the once a night piss, I sleep like a fucking baby.

[Harmony]

I looked for a thread that discussed sleep in particular but really didn't see one....so here one is.

I don't get a lot of sleep. It's all self inflicted mostly due to the amount of coffee I drink (between-50-80oz a day) and this weird compulsion I have that makes me think I'm going to 'miss out' on something if I fall asleep.....and a feeling of I have to squeeze every last minute out of the day. No matter how tired I am in the morning and how many times I tell myself I'm going to go to sleep 'early' that night.....boom....next thing you know I'm up until 1 or 2 AM....usually watching something on TV

I still function 'normally'....at least I think I do. But, on a typical night I'm probably 6 hours or so of sleep and that's interrupted sleep as I'll wake up a handful of times here and there. The reason for me creating this thread is because last night....I had a bout of Sleep Paralysis and it was the weirdest/scariest thing that's happened to me in quite some time.

I woke up in the middle of the night....don't know what time it was because I couldn't move my head.....but I was frozen. Tried to move, couldn't. Just literally frozen. I think it went on for 3-5 minutes and I must have fallen back to sleep. I later woke up and was 'fine'. It was so freaking weird.

So I Googled causes of sleep paralysis and one of the major ones is lack of sleep. They also mentioned stress. This new job I took 8 months ago is certainly more work and more 'stressful' but I never really look at it like 'stress'....it's just a harder job that requires more of me. But man....I nailed two of the symptoms right off the bat.

I've never suffered sleep paralysis but I have had bouts of insomnia - rarely thank goodness.  I am one of those people who literally cannot function without at least 6 hours of sleep.  And inadequate sleep messes up my memory.  I have very few memories of when my kids were newborns.  Literally huge swaths of my memory is just gone and it makes me emotional to think I've lost those precious weeks.

Sleep is so important to our physical health, and in ways we are only just beginning to understand.  Lack of it increases your risk of obesity, diabetes, heart disease.  It interferes with immune function and even your balance.  Driving while sleep deprived is very similar to driving while intoxicated.  It also impacts mood and can impact sex drive.  Getting a handle on your sleep is integral to your health.  I hope you speak to your doctor about it and make it a priority to improve it.

As others have pointed out, cutting back on the caffeine is a good first step.  I might also recommend turning off all screens (phone, t.v., computer) at least an hour before bed.  The screens emit a blue light that can stimulate your brain to stay awake and also may suppress melatonin.  Instead you could try listening to a guided sleep meditation before bed that takes you through a series of breathing, muscle relaxation, or guided imagery to help you drift off.  I know it sounds like mumbo jumbo but that shit works.  One of my favorites is a podcast called Tracks to Relax.  The guys voice alone is like hypnosis.  It's free, although you can pay to have access to more of the back library.  There is also a section of sleep meditations that are free via Fit On app that are pretty good.  To avoid the screen blue light, I just cue it up before winding down and getting ready for bed then hit play and turn the phone over on my pillow next to my head.  Even when I'm having a hard time falling asleep, these sleep meditations always find me sleeping before they are over.

Good luck!

[ProfessorPeart]

Sleep and I have always had a tenuous relationship. My wife likes to joke that a mouse farting would wake me up. She's not wrong. I am the lightest of sleepers. Under the right conditions, I would have no issue sleeping almost entirely through the night.

Sadly, a few years ago I slept on my left elbow and ended up compressing my ulnar nerve. Caused me massive pain in my hand. It was like a shock any time I would try to engage any sort of leverage with it. I had to have surgery to open the pathway. Since then, I wear an elbow brace on the left elbow which keeps my arm almost entirely straight and a wrist brace on my right wrist (I almost did it to my right elbow as well). This is all to prevent me from doing this again. I was almost entirely a stomach sleeper before that. Now, due to the braces, I cannot really sleep on my stomach. Anytime my body decides it's time to move in bed, I essentially wake up, reposition and then go back to sleep.

Working from home has helped me get more sleep than before. Another issue I do have is the inability to turn off my brain. Occasionally, I just cannot power down even though I am exhausted. I'll lay in bed for hours while my brain is going a mile a minute. I find it hard to shut it off. Sometimes I give up and get out of bed and just surf the net or listen to music for an hour or two and then try again. Usually does the trick. Only happens every so often.

[Stadler]

Sleep is so important to our physical health, and in ways we are only just beginning to understand.  Lack of it increases your risk of obesity, diabetes, heart disease.  It interferes with immune function and even your balance.  Driving while sleep deprived is very similar to driving while intoxicated.  It also impacts mood and can impact sex drive.  Getting a handle on your sleep is integral to your health.  I hope you speak to your doctor about it and make it a priority to improve it.

Quoted, for no other reason than it's worth everyone reading this twice.

Gary, I say this with love, but if you're getting sleep paralysis and even (and this is counter-intuitive) that feeling of "missing something" (my step son has that, so it's real) that may be the sign that your body is telling you something.   Our bodies find ways of telling us when we're pushing our limits.  I know for me, I was in the hospital with diverticulitis back in 2014, and I've only had one serious bout since, but it was at a point of EXTREMELY high stress, and I notice - now - that when I'm under increased stress I am more apt to have what feel like dehydration pains, except on my lower left side of my abdomen.   As Harmony has said, the benefits of sleep are manifest and the lack of sleep harms are well-documented.  Some of these don't manifest as "I'm tired" or "wow, I feel slow today".   It impacts our healing, our memory (there is a school of thought that says that "dreams" are actually the brain transferring information from our short-term memory banks to the long term memory banks) and our autonomous nervous system.  Sure, we're all different, and maybe the level of sleep for you is different than that from someone else, but in any case, I feel we shouldn't be experiencing consequences of our sleep on any regular basis.

[MinistroRaven]

I have experienced sleep paralysis and it's not fun at all, plus, I have experienced it and I feel a terror an evil presence in the room and it scares the shit out of me, it has happened like 3-4 times in my life.
I also drink A LOT of coffee during the day, I can drink 5 or 6 giant coffee mugs every single day. I think that's the reason I can't have deep sleep ever. I always wake up to take a piss or just stumble on my bed with eyes wide open all nights, or I just don't find the right position and I am constantly moving too much, that much that my wife made me get one of those mattresses that if you move your partner hardly feels it.

I was reading about sleep paralysis and sleep demons the other day, here's the article I read:

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/what-you-should-know-about-sleep-paralysis-and-sleep-demons/

[Ben_Jamin]

Huh...I didn't know Sleep Paralysis can happen when falling asleep. That's interesting as I have done that, I would be aware but not quite awake but couldnt move, I could feel myself breathing and drooling, but I couldn't do anything, or more, my mind wasn't letting me do anything besides breathe. I fell asleep and ended up waking up shortly after, with a, "What just happened" feeling and thought.

[kirksnosehair]

If I'm lucky, I'll get five hours of broken sleep. This goes for 4 or 5 days, at which time I'm exhausted and can sleep 6 hours. Rinse and repeat.

Not trying to contradict KNH, but there are actually numerous side effects for Ambien. Most physicians, due to liability issues, will either not prescribe Ambien at all, or will do so for a minimal period time. If you happen to have one that will allow you to stay on it long-term, you're very lucky.

Well, I can only cite my own personal experience but I've had 3 doctors in the last 12 years and none of them had any problem prescribing me Ambien as a medical necessity.  My chronic insomnia is well-documented and the relatively harmless side-effects of Ambien are far less troubling than the potentially severe consequences of long-term sleep deprivation.  Also, I've been taking it almost since it came on the market and I've never had a single side effect, but obviously YMMV.  Not every person is going to have the same experience with it.  All I know is I sleep like a baby with it and without it I sleep more like you do, emtee, so I'll keep taking this shit as long as they'll keep prescribing it.

[kirksnosehair]

Huh...I didn't know Sleep Paralysis can happen when falling asleep. That's interesting as I have done that, I would be aware but not quite awake but couldnt move, I could feel myself breathing and drooling, but I couldn't do anything, or more, my mind wasn't letting me do anything besides breathe. I fell asleep and ended up waking up shortly after, with a, "What just happened" feeling and thought.

Not everyone is susceptible.  Oddly enough, many sleep medications cite sleep paralysis as a potential side effect.  I've never experienced it myself, it sounds terrifying 

[cramx3]

I've experienced sleep paralysis before but it's almost always when I take a nap mid day.  It's a very odd feeling, but I've had it happen enough now that I know it's happening and am not scared by it anymore, just ride with it and try to tell myself mentally to go to sleep.

[Stadler]

I don't think I've ever experienced this before; not going to lie, I kind of feel like I want to know what it actually feels like.

[jingle.boy]

I'm a 6-7 hour per night sleeper - something my body has just fallen into a routine over time. I'm in bed anytime between 10:30-midnight; up around 5:30-6.   If for some miraculous reason I happen to sleep 8 hours or more, I'm physically in pain (back, and sides of my torso) when I wake up.  I've gotten to a point in life now that if I wake up anytime after 5am, I can NOT get back to sleep, so I might as well just get my ass up.

In my 20s and 30s, I'd drink about a pot of coffee a day.  I cut that back to 1/2 a pot sometime in my early 40s, and sometime last year, in some discussion thread here I took El Barto's advice and started cutting my morning coffee with decaf, so I'm about 60/40 (high octane / decaf).  I don't/can't have caffeine after about 6pm, else my brain simply won't allow me to slip from consciousness no matter how tired I am (at 1am!).

I was also having to get up nightly to empty the tank, but I now do a better job at managing my liquid intake and outgo in the evening.  I'll try not to whiz after 8pm (ish) until right before bed, and don't have anything to drink after 9pm (ish) until a 1/2 glass of water at bed.

All that said, I usually sleep pretty good - no troubles falling asleep, and don't very often wake up throughout the night.  I consider all of this a win.

[kirksnosehair]

Noon time is my cutoff for caffeine - if I drink coffee after noon, it's a crap shoot whether or not I'll be able to sleep that night, drugs or no drugs

[gmillerdrake]

I don't think I've ever experienced this before; not going to lie, I kind of feel like I want to know what it actually feels like.

It was weird Bill.....I won't say 'terrifying' because I had read enough about Sleep Paralysis to realize what was happening.....but at the same time....when your body doesn't respond to your brains commands and you're unable to move.....it was freaky. Thankfully I wasn't fully 'awake'....I was in that stage where I was conscious but was able to fall back asleep within a few minutes and it was over.

The thing is I know how important sleep is......I know my caffeine intake is too high, and that I need to establish a better sleep cycle. I just haven't put the effort into doing so. Like I said, I have this compulsion to try and 'get' everything I can out of the day and just won't allow myself to start to wrap it up at 10:00 or so. For me, at 10:00....in my mind I still have two or three hours to watch something or scroll Twitter/DTF/Redit etc etc.

It's been time for me to make some lifestyle changes that include the sleep pattern and healthier eating.....but I just won't pull the trigger on it. Don't know why I'm 'holding on' to staying up to 12:30-1:00 in the morning but I am for some reason. I've never been a morning person.....always stayed up into the wee hours of the morning....I think it's just the way I am. I'm alarmed by the health risks associated with poor sleep but "that'll never happen to me"

[jingle.boy]

Don't let it take a heart attack before you do something pal.

[emtee]

If I'm lucky, I'll get five hours of broken sleep. This goes for 4 or 5 days, at which time I'm exhausted and can sleep 6 hours. Rinse and repeat.

Not trying to contradict KNH, but there are actually numerous side effects for Ambien. Most physicians, due to liability issues, will either not prescribe Ambien at all, or will do so for a minimal period time. If you happen to have one that will allow you to stay on it long-term, you're very lucky.

Well, I can only cite my own personal experience but I've had 3 doctors in the last 12 years and none of them had any problem prescribing me Ambien as a medical necessity.  My chronic insomnia is well-documented and the relatively harmless side-effects of Ambien are far less troubling than the potentially severe consequences of long-term sleep deprivation.  Also, I've been taking it almost since it came on the market and I've never had a single side effect, but obviously YMMV.  Not every person is going to have the same experience with it.  All I know is I sleep like a baby with it and without it I sleep more like you do, emtee, so I'll keep taking this shit as long as they'll keep prescribing it.

I hear you Brother. I wanted to take it SO bad. My mom had a very bad episode where she woke in the morning not remembering anything but had multiple bottles of meds and Tums etc laying on her nightstand. It freaked her out so bad wondering what she took, that she stopped taking Ambien the next day. Also had a good friend get up in the middle of the night, grab the car keys and took a drive. Her hubby asked her, WTF were you doing. She remembered nothing.

I think it would really help me though.

Also, I had a horrible episode of sleep paralysis when I was about 15. Horrible memory. Seeing demons at the foot of the bed. Feeling of levitating. Unable to move. And when I came out of it, I realized I was not breathing. I felt like I was going to die. And then the air rushed back into my lungs. It was very scary and disturbing.

[Dublagent66]

I don't get nearly as much sleep as I should because I'm a night owl.  The only time I attempt to catch up is on the weekends and during week days with power naps.

[gmillerdrake]

Don't let it take a heart attack before you do something pal.

I hear ya man. I really do. I have to address a couple of my lifestyle choices that once weren't a big deal but now that I guess I'm going to keep aging and getting older.....are and will be a bid deal should they continue.

[wolfking]

Don't let it take a heart attack before you do something pal.

I hear ya man. I really do. I have to address a couple of my lifestyle choices that once weren't a big deal but now that I guess I'm going to keep aging and getting older.....are and will be a bid deal should they continue.

Mate, cut the coffee back, seriously.

[jingle.boy]

Don't let it take a heart attack before you do something pal.

I hear ya man. I really do. I have to address a couple of my lifestyle choices that once weren't a big deal but now that I guess I'm going to keep aging and getting older.....are and will be a bid deal should they continue.

Mate, cut the coffee back, seriously.

If you brew at home, try cutting it a bit with decaf.  Or order 1/2&1/2 once or twice at wherever you order.  You may notice the caffeine 'wears off' a little sooner (I sometimes feel myself getting a little dozy around 1pm or so, and sometimes again in the early evening), but I feel good knowing I've cut my caffeine intake by 30-40%