Coronavirus Thread v.2

[jingle.boy]

we remember that COVID's gonna do what COVID's gonna do regardless of what we humans do. 

I really don't understand this statement.  We're the hosts.  We enable the virus.  We move the virus.  We are the vessel by which it travels, spreads, and grows. We're very much in a crucial part of what COVID's gonna do.

Though, XJ said it better.

[Stadler]

CORRELATED, not CAUSAL.

I've worked in science for two decades and have 70+ papers under my belt in the field of correlation spectroscopy. Can we work on the assumption that I am aware of the difference?

Of course you are.  Not everyone else is, though. That's plain just by reading this thread.   And it's not a criticism, necessarily, just a comment.

I'm cool with however this plays out, as long as 1) the pandemic isn't further weaponized to achieve non-COVID goals, and 2) we remember that COVID's gonna do what COVID's gonna do regardless of what we humans do.

How well it can do it is very much dependent on what humans do though. It's much less likely to evolve the fewer people who have it, and the more of those people who are vaccinated. Otherwise medicine and public health measures would be worthless endeavours.

No doubt, but we North Americans sometimes forget that there are six other continents, and we are only about 580 million out of almost 8 BILLION people on the planet.   Not even 10% of the world population.  We've seen WILDLY different agendas here in the states when it comes to "what humans do", and those agendas didn't translate into WILDLY different outcomes.  In fact, for a long time - up to Omicron - the outcomes were almost identical.  You can't find a post in the last five pages (other than mine) that even acknowledges this fact let alone incorporates it into the analysis.

None of this is to say we shouldn't be actively doing our part, but there has to be some understanding of where that part fits in the bigger picture. 

[ReaPsTA]

Something no one talks about - Animals can get and spread COVID. Implications should be obvious...

[Adami]

Something no one talks about - Animals can get and spread COVID. Implications should be obvious...

Go vegetarian?

Sounds good!

[lonestar]

Crap... I just fed my roommate's fish....

[Adami]

Crap... I just fed my roommate's fish....

To whom?

[cramx3]

My understanding is that while animals can get and transmit covid, they are very unlikely to transmit it to humans.  I recall reading of different variants found in deer but they didn't think they posed threats to humans.  The CDC website says

At this time, there is no evidence that animals play a significant role in spreading SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, to people.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/animals.html

The wording seems to suggest it's possible, but just not very likely.  But I guess we can't rule out the possibility of it happening in the future.

[ReaPsTA]

Even if we accept the CDC's take on transmission as true, the other issue is mutation.

[TAC]

Something no one talks about - Animals can get and spread COVID. Implications should be obvious...

What are the obvious implications?

[ReaPsTA]

Something no one talks about - Animals can get and spread COVID. Implications should be obvious...

What are the obvious implications?

Transmission/mutation to humans

Not in our control

[KevShmev]

Something no one talks about - Animals can get and spread COVID. Implications should be obvious...

Yep. Don't do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLmQTIS9Rv4

[TAC]

Something no one talks about - Animals can get and spread COVID. Implications should be obvious...

What are the obvious implications?

Transmission/mutation to humans

Not in our control

Was it ever in our control?

[ReaPsTA]

Something no one talks about - Animals can get and spread COVID. Implications should be obvious...

What are the obvious implications?

Transmission/mutation to humans

Not in our control

Was it ever in our control?

Well, I mean, you know my answer to that I'm sure

[Adami]

This conversation is getting weird.


Can't we all just get along and disagree with Stadler together?

[Stadler]

This conversation is getting weird.


Can't we all just get along and disagree with Stadler together?

Yeah! 

[Adami]

This conversation is getting weird.


Can't we all just get along and disagree with Stadler together?

Yeah! 

Stadler, personally ending the divisiveness!

[King Postwhore]

He's also good at grab ass.  Trust me.

[lonestar]

He's also good at grab ass.  Trust me.

I wear glasses...so I literally paid to read this.

[Stadler]

He's also good at grab ass.  Trust me.

I wear glasses...so I literally paid to read this.

And worth every penny, amirite! 

[jingle.boy]

This conversation is getting weird.


Can't we all just get along and disagree with Stadler together?

Yeah! 

NO!!!

Am I doing it right?

[XeRocks81]

a very even handed dive into the topic of vaccines & freedom from the always entertaining and informative Abigail from Philosophy Tube https://youtu.be/Va0RCgbywGc

[lonestar]

Just tested negative for covid...9 day turnaround from initial positive to the negative...fairly painless experience altogether thankfully with no known collateral damage.

[gmillerdrake]

Just tested negative for covid...9 day turnaround from initial positive to the negative...fairly painless experience altogether thankfully with no known collateral damage.

Awesome!

[lonestar]

Just tested negative for covid...9 day turnaround from initial positive to the negative...fairly painless experience altogether thankfully with no known collateral damage.

Awesome!

Especially thankful I didn't get anyone the Sat before I tested, I was at a big AA speaker meeting, maskless, talking and hugging people all around. I started feeling symptoms the next morning. As far as I know, nobody caught it.

[Grappler]

Current situation in my house.  My daughter brought home a bad cold last week and was out sick for two days.  I now have the cold and took yesterday off of work because I was so miserable.  I haven't slept well in 2-3 nights.  My daughter then brought home the stomach flu this week and will be out sick for two days again.

Good thing we got rid of the masks and now these other bugs are flying around schools again causing a TON of kids to miss school.  The last time we had the stomach flu in the house was January 2020.  We went two years without it because the kids had masks on at school. 

For the record, I agree with giving it a try without masks and my daughter is so happy about it.  But the causation of the cold and stomach flu going around isn't lost on me - those masks did help keep these other viruses at bay, even if Omicron snuck around them. 

[Chino]

Current situation in my house.  My daughter brought home a bad cold last week and was out sick for two days.  I now have the cold and took yesterday off of work because I was so miserable.  I haven't slept well in 2-3 nights.  My daughter then brought home the stomach flu this week and will be out sick for two days again.

Good thing we got rid of the masks and now these other bugs are flying around schools again causing a TON of kids to miss school.  The last time we had the stomach flu in the house was January 2020.  We went two years without it because the kids had masks on at school. 

For the record, I agree with giving it a try without masks and my daughter is so happy about it.  But the causation of the cold and stomach flu going around isn't lost on me - those masks did help keep these other viruses at bay, even if Omicron snuck around them. 

That's something we would have had to contend with no matter what. Many peoples' immune systems have gotten a nice long vacation. I feel like this was inevitable. I return to the office next week and I'm anticipating being decently sick at some point within the first month back.

[Grappler]

I know that, and as my favorite comic strip showed, we are back to normal. 

I just find it sad that so many parents raged about kids wearing masks, yet they're ok with calling their kids out of school numerous times for illnesses.  I hate that my daughter has missed 4 out of 9 school days within the last two weeks.  A 50% attendance rate for a few weeks is acceptable and normal as long as they don't have to wear a mask? 

[Stadler]

I know that, and as my favorite comic strip showed, we are back to normal. 

I just find it sad that so many parents raged about kids wearing masks, yet they're ok with calling their kids out of school numerous times for illnesses.  I hate that my daughter has missed 4 out of 9 school days within the last two weeks.  A 50% attendance rate for a few weeks is acceptable and normal as long as they don't have to wear a mask?

I don't understand that connection.  I never "raged" about kids wearing masks, but I am sort of indifferent to it. I told my kids to "follow the rules", because that's what we do at that age, and my stepson in particular is pretty adamant about wearing them, but honestly, at least here in CT, the administration of the mask policies has been less than scientific (see the Politics thread; I don't agree with DeSantis, but I do know what he means when he says "COVID theater").   And while I would never be "OK" with my kid being home from school sick, I understand the process and realize that being "sick-free" is not a reality, and, in terms of immuno-health, has it's plusses and minuses.  I can't speak for all parents any more than you can, but I think reducing it so simply misses some important points and points of view.

[Grappler]

There was definite rage from parents, with lots of school boards having to call the police to their meetings because of threats - on a nationwide level.  Watching these board meetings has been fascinating to see the parental behavior.

I followed our local parents in my district pretty closely, who created a Facebook group to coordinate their efforts.  While they remained calm when speaking in front of our school board (I do give them a lot of credit for that), their online messaging consists of full-on rage.  When our school district wasn't fast enough for them in adjusting their mask policy, they threatened all sorts of action against them.  The district asked parents for their patience throughout the process, however, these parents refused to be patient and demanded that they capitulate.  A few parents kept the pitchforks out, even after the policy was adjusted, with statements that they will never let this "abuse" happen to their children again.  The anger about their children having to wear a paper mask when at school drove them to a fervor.  I monitored it just because I didn't want to be dropping off my kid at school and being surprised by a protest or something more serious.  Sadly, the BLM riots and January 6th showed us that when enough people on one side of a political belief get worked up enough, they can be driven to take things too far. 

Like you, I'm indifferent.  When covid numbers were big, I felt like masks were justifiable.  They truly have their use to help reduce transmission within a population (in this case, children in a school), and if they didn't work, doctor's wouldn't wear them when performing surgery.  Now that covid numbers are a lot less, I agree with the decision to take the masks off.

My point was that it's nonsense to just dismiss what masks do by saying "they don't work."  Well gee, the timing on the stomach flu and colds keeping kids home is impeccable.  I know we're not going to be illness free, but to sit back and say "masks don't work" and being angry about kids having to wear them....while not being bothered by having your kid miss 50% of their school days over a period of 2 weeks seems ass-backward to me.   Heaven forbid your kid have to wear a paper mask at school, but we're perfectly fine with calling them out of school repeatedly because other kids keep getting them sick.

[Stadler]

There was definite rage from parents, with lots of school boards having to call the police to their meetings because of threats - on a nationwide level.  Watching these board meetings has been fascinating to see the parental behavior.

I followed our local parents in my district pretty closely, who created a Facebook group to coordinate their efforts.  While they remained calm when speaking in front of our school board (I do give them a lot of credit for that), their online messaging consists of full-on rage.  When our school district wasn't fast enough for them in adjusting their mask policy, they threatened all sorts of action against them.  The district asked parents for their patience throughout the process, however, these parents refused to be patient and demanded that they capitulate.  A few parents kept the pitchforks out, even after the policy was adjusted, with statements that they will never let this "abuse" happen to their children again.  The anger about their children having to wear a paper mask when at school drove them to a fervor.  I monitored it just because I didn't want to be dropping off my kid at school and being surprised by a protest or something more serious.  Sadly, the BLM riots and January 6th showed us that when enough people on one side of a political belief get worked up enough, they can be driven to take things too far. 

Like you, I'm indifferent.  When covid numbers were big, I felt like masks were justifiable.  They truly have their use to help reduce transmission within a population (in this case, children in a school), and if they didn't work, doctor's wouldn't wear them when performing surgery.  Now that covid numbers are a lot less, I agree with the decision to take the masks off.

My point was that it's nonsense to just dismiss what masks do by saying "they don't work." Well gee, the timing on the stomach flu and colds keeping kids home is impeccable.  I know we're not going to be illness free, but to sit back and say "masks don't work" and being angry about kids having to wear them....while not being bothered by having your kid miss 50% of their school days over a period of 2 weeks seems ass-backward to me.   Heaven forbid your kid have to wear a paper mask at school, but we're perfectly fine with calling them out of school repeatedly because other kids keep getting them sick.

Certainly, if you've read any of my posts here over the last ten years, you know I agree with that.  I think ANY blanket statement like that (in this arena) is likely nonsense.   I'm just struggling with the next step; I certainly don't want my kids to be sick.  The worst thing in the world is to see your child suffering from a cold, or stomach flu, or something like that.   But I have a more macro, philosophical look at things.  We don't live in a bubble.  We live in the world.  I don't WANT my kid to be sick, and I don't WANT my kid to have the experience of leukemia or something like that, but enduring a cold, or a stomach flu for a couple days has, for me, as many potential positives as negatives.  I don't feel the trade-offs are such that it makes sense to have our kids wearing masks if the benefit is just fewer incidents of the common cold. 

I'm also not too keen on the "timing" argument.  There are too many incidents over the last two years that "seem" to make common sense, but with further scrutiny, don't stand up to that.   For the longest time, Florida and California had almost diametrically opposed COVID policies, and yet... had almost the same numbers in terms of cases and deaths per capita.

[Harmony]

I'm not sure where you are getting your stats and am not disagreeing with your analysis but wish to point out that Florida has been accused more than once on distributing misleading data that puts them in a 'better' light with regard to cases and deaths.  This is just one link.  There are others to be looked at using your favorite search engine. 

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/scicheck-desantis-comments-social-media-posts-mislead-on-covid-19s-toll-in-florida/

[Stadler]

Almost all the data I reference re: COVID cases and deaths are from https://www.worldometers.info/

[Harmony]

Almost all the data I reference re: COVID cases and deaths are from https://www.worldometers.info/

That looks like a cool website.

I'm a bit more concerned by this statement on where they glean their data:  "Official reports, directly from Government's communication channels or indirectly, through local media sources when deemed reliable."

Again, I haven't taken the time to look at Florida's numbers specifically so I can't say whether or not your source is accurate.  I'm just saying that numbers can be manipulated quite easily.  People on the conservative end of the spectrum say they are OVER reported and people on the liberal end of the spectrum claim they are UNDER reported.  States are doing reporting differently.  And media sources?  LoL, ok.....

[Ben_Jamin]

Almost all the data I reference re: COVID cases and deaths are from https://www.worldometers.info/

That looks like a cool website.

I'm a bit more concerned by this statement on where they glean their data:  "Official reports, directly from Government's communication channels or indirectly, through local media sources when deemed reliable."

Again, I haven't taken the time to look at Florida's numbers specifically so I can't say whether or not your source is accurate.  I'm just saying that numbers can be manipulated quite easily.  People on the conservative end of the spectrum say they are OVER reported and people on the liberal end of the spectrum claim they are UNDER reported.  States are doing reporting differently.  And media sources?  LoL, ok.....

That's what I call playing the numbers game.

[Grappler]

Almost all the data I reference re: COVID cases and deaths are from https://www.worldometers.info/

That looks like a cool website.

I'm a bit more concerned by this statement on where they glean their data:  "Official reports, directly from Government's communication channels or indirectly, through local media sources when deemed reliable."

Again, I haven't taken the time to look at Florida's numbers specifically so I can't say whether or not your source is accurate.  I'm just saying that numbers can be manipulated quite easily.  People on the conservative end of the spectrum say they are OVER reported and people on the liberal end of the spectrum claim they are UNDER reported.  States are doing reporting differently.  And media sources?  LoL, ok.....

I would agree with all of this, and I do recall during Florida's giant surge early on in the pandemic that a health department employee in Florida blew the whistle on heavy governmental pressure to change the numbers and under-report the number of cases or deaths. 

I just find it amazing that going back to normal means that it's generally acceptable for kids to be sick.  People get angry over kids having to wear masks, but calling our kids out of school for 4 out of 9 days is acceptable?  I can't even get her homework because the school will only send homework home for 5 day absences or more (covid quarantine). 

I have a health degree and understand that illnesses have their usefulness in keeping our immune systems running property, but at the same time, wouldn't it be nice to find a way to reduce the spread of the stomach flu in a school?  We embrace certain tools, like technology, but we can't embrace mask usage when ill so we're not spreading germs?