Coronavirus Thread v.2

[ReaPsTA]

Plus Elton John is Elton John. Leno and Fallon are medium talents. Respect the hustle (they're in those jobs, I'm not) but come on now.

[hefdaddy42]

Plus Elton John is Elton John. Leno and Fallon are medium talents. Respect the hustle (they're in those jobs, I'm not) but come on now.

There is that, as well.

[Stadler]

Jimmy Fallon is a corporate shill, he's the current generation's Jay Leno; harmless and inoffensive.   He's Elton John.

Man... Comparing Fallon and Leno to Elton John is the most disagreeable thing in this thread.

Agreed

Haha, you disagree?

I would never characterize Elton John as inoffensive.

Not that he's overly offensive, mind you.  But Fallen and Leno are definitely milk and toast, while many people I have know would consider Elton John to be QUITE offensive.

Okay, that's not where I thought you would go, but fair enough.  I see that.  I was thinking more along the lines of the shows I've seen, which for Elton are more like Vegas spectacles, something for everyone, but I see your point.

[Stadler]

Plus Elton John is Elton John. Leno and Fallon are medium talents. Respect the hustle (they're in those jobs, I'm not) but come on now.

There is that, as well.

Well, I don't disagree with you on this either, but I was taking the high road.  I figure they both filled in, at some length, for the immortal Johnny Carson.  Personally, they couldn't get a cup of coffee for Johnny Carson, but they both captained the flagship nighttime show, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt.  I didn't let my personal preference stand in the way of the analogy.

[hefdaddy42]

Fallon never filled in for Carson.  He was just a baby.

[KevShmev]

Fallon probably came out of the womb already laughing.

[Stadler]

Fallon never filled in for Carson.  He was just a baby.

He's the host of the Tonight Show.  I didn't mean actually filled in for Johnny as guest host.  I meant metaphorically standing in for the great one.  No one, in my eyes, can replace Johnny Carson, so everyone after is just "filling in". 

[KevShmev]

Fallon never filled in for Carson.  He was just a baby.

He's the host of the Tonight Show.  I didn't mean actually filled in for Johnny as guest host.  I meant metaphorically standing in for the great one.  No one, in my eyes, can replace Johnny Carson, so everyone after is just "filling in".

Letterman was pretty close back in the 80s, before he went to CBS and became a bit soft on celebs, but Carson is still the man. 

[ReaPsTA]

Plus Elton John is Elton John. Leno and Fallon are medium talents. Respect the hustle (they're in those jobs, I'm not) but come on now.

There is that, as well.

Well, I don't disagree with you on this either, but I was taking the high road.  I figure they both filled in, at some length, for the immortal Johnny Carson.  Personally, they couldn't get a cup of coffee for Johnny Carson, but they both captained the flagship nighttime show, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt.  I didn't let my personal preference stand in the way of the analogy.

To focus on the broader point you're making - Entertainment can be broadly appealing and family friendly without indulging the most simplistic and authority friendly narratives the culture has to offer. Entertainment can be both broadly appealing AND be well made in a way that sharp consumers pick up on.

Caron, of course, is one of the quintessential examples. Beloved by middle America and aspiring comedians of the era. If you're going to compare Elton to anyone really it should be Carson. Leno/Fallon are more like Nickleback. Competently made. Not terrible. But not much there.

Fallon probably came out of the womb already laughing.

Too real man

[hefdaddy42]

Fallon never filled in for Carson.  He was just a baby.

He's the host of the Tonight Show.  I didn't mean actually filled in for Johnny as guest host.  I meant metaphorically standing in for the great one.  No one, in my eyes, can replace Johnny Carson, so everyone after is just "filling in".

Oh for God's sake.

[KevShmev]

Fallon probably came out of the womb already laughing.

Too real man

I don't watch Fallon unless I see YT clips of him with select stars I want to see, but I have nothing against him. It's just hilarious how he can never stop himself from laughing.  Even in the famous BOL cowbell skit, he is the drummer and literally has one line and laughs his way through it.

[ReaPsTA]

Fallon probably came out of the womb already laughing.

Too real man

I don't watch Fallon unless I see YT clips of him with select stars I want to see, but I have nothing against him. It's just hilarious how he can never stop himself from laughing.  Even in the famous BOL cowbell skit, he is the drummer and literally has one line and laughs his way through it.

iT'S juSt sO cHArMiNG aNd eNDeArInG

[Stadler]

Plus Elton John is Elton John. Leno and Fallon are medium talents. Respect the hustle (they're in those jobs, I'm not) but come on now.

There is that, as well.

Well, I don't disagree with you on this either, but I was taking the high road.  I figure they both filled in, at some length, for the immortal Johnny Carson.  Personally, they couldn't get a cup of coffee for Johnny Carson, but they both captained the flagship nighttime show, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt.  I didn't let my personal preference stand in the way of the analogy.

To focus on the broader point you're making - Entertainment can be broadly appealing and family friendly without indulging the most simplistic and authority friendly narratives the culture has to offer. Entertainment can be both broadly appealing AND be well made in a way that sharp consumers pick up on.

Caron, of course, is one of the quintessential examples. Beloved by middle America and aspiring comedians of the era. If you're going to compare Elton to anyone really it should be Carson. Leno/Fallon are more like Nickleback. Competently made. Not terrible. But not much there.

I hear you; whether we quibble about "who" I think you get my point of how Fallon and Leno fit in the pantheon of late night hosts.

[ReaPsTA]

At least Leno ran a professional, turnkey operation. I popped on a random Fallon clip from Youtube and it felt like neither he nor his writers had ever put on an episode of a late night show before.

[hefdaddy42]

Fallon can be good in a skit situation.  But he's a TERRIBLE interviewer.

I think the best person in late night right now is probably Kimmel.  Colbert has the intellect to be good, but he spends too much time portraying a fake funny persona.  I much preferred him on Comedy Central. 

[hunnus2000]

Some excellent news out of Sweden and other European countries today as covid is downgraded from a dangerous disease and restrictions are ended 

Some major cities in the US are removing mask and vaccine mandates as well.  Locally here in NJ, daily cases are getting close to back to where they were before omnicron.  It burned through so fast.  Hopefully the last major wave, but who knows.  This definitely didn't turn out to be the doom and gloom wave some predicted.

While I wouldn't use the words "doom and gloom" this omicron wave has definitely acted out as predicted. It has spiked as predicted, declined as predicted and while not as deadly, it has definitely killed a lot of people. People at work have dropped like flies at work and it's been so bad that I haven't been in the office for 2 weeks going on 3. In addition, they have struggled mightily being sick and some people have taken up to 3 weeks or more to fully recover.

It's been seriously disturbing listening to people at work on con-calls sounding like death warmed over.

[cramx3]

Some excellent news out of Sweden and other European countries today as covid is downgraded from a dangerous disease and restrictions are ended 

Some major cities in the US are removing mask and vaccine mandates as well.  Locally here in NJ, daily cases are getting close to back to where they were before omnicron.  It burned through so fast.  Hopefully the last major wave, but who knows.  This definitely didn't turn out to be the doom and gloom wave some predicted.

While I wouldn't use the words "doom and gloom" this omicron wave has definitely acted out as predicted. It has spiked as predicted, declined as predicted and while not as deadly, it has definitely killed a lot of people. People at work have dropped like flies at work and it's been so bad that I haven't been in the office for 2 weeks going on 3. In addition, they have struggled mightily being sick and some people have taken up to 3 weeks or more to fully recover.

It's been seriously disturbing listening to people at work on con-calls sounding like death warmed over.

No doubt it was disruptive and deadly for a lot of people, but life has moved on fairly quickly.  The country didn't shut down. This is more so my point, not to downplay the struggles of the healthcare workers or lack of sympathy for those who have died. 

[ReaPsTA]

Quick and easy example of CDC dishonesty: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm

Study purports to demonstrate that wearing masks is effective. Buried in the fine print of the very first image: "Not statistically significant"

After the FOIA'd email chain where the definition of vaccine was changed for political purposes, I can't think this was published for innocent purposes.

EDIT: Old (2020) example, but here's a study where they say that dining indoors creates increased risk of getting COVID... based off of a telephone survey - https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6936a5.htm

[Grappler]

Quick and easy example of CDC dishonesty: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm

Study purports to demonstrate that wearing masks is effective. Buried in the fine print of the very first image: "Not statistically significant"

If you're going to make a statement like that, you should include the full quote, instead of grabbing onto a term and making it seem like not wearing masks does not work.

Wearing an N95/KN95 respirator (aOR = 0.17; 95% CI = 0.05–0.64) or wearing a surgical mask (aOR = 0.34; 95% CI = 0.13­–0.90) was associated with lower adjusted odds of a positive test result compared with not wearing a mask (Table 3). Wearing a cloth mask (aOR = 0.44; 95% CI = 0.17–1.17) was associated with lower adjusted odds of a positive test compared with never wearing a face covering but was not statistically significant.

This is saying that wearing an N95 mask lowers your odds of contracting covid when compared to not wearing a mask.  Wearing a cloth mask did lower your odds when compared to never wearing a mask, but the results were "not statistically significant," meaning that they couldn't assign the same level of confidence that they did when comparing N95 masks to not wearing a mask. 

In layman's terms, "Wearing an N95 mask provides a stronger defense against contracting covid than wearing a cloth mask, when compared to not wearing a mask at all."


As for your second example about restaurants, again, you're twisting words and trying to make this seem like something that it's not.  The cdc was saying that indoor dining can increase your risk of contracting covid, and that social distancing and masking should be implemented to reduce the risk.  All of that is true.  In July 2020, that was true - there was contract tracing in place that showed outbreaks at restaurants.  We had reports like that locally in Chicago quite often.

Try learning to read instead of twisting words to fit your own narrative.

[ReaPsTA]

I still see the words not statistically significant.

This is like the news media reporting on "fiery, but mostly peaceful" protests.

If the cloth mask odds aren't statistically significant, don't put them in a chart as if they are real.

And, once again, we have a telephone survey study instead of a review of data or a randomly controlled trial.

These studies are bullshit. Pointing out imprecisions in wording does not change that.

[Grappler]

I still see the words not statistically significant.

This is like the news media reporting on "fiery, but mostly peaceful" protests.

If the cloth mask odds aren't statistically significant, don't put them in a chart as if they are real.

And, once again, we have a telephone survey study instead of a review of data or a randomly controlled trial.

These studies are bullshit. Pointing out imprecisions in wording does not change that.

The studies aren't bullshit, you're just latching onto a term and running away with it because you think it means something different, rather than thinking about what it actually means.  Not statistically significant does not mean "bullshit."  It means that there isn't enough of a quantifiable difference.

Basically, wearing a cloth mask will help reduce covid, but it may be due more to the wearer being lucky, as opposed to the actual scientific benefit.   I wore a cloth mask for a year and a half when I needed to and never got covid.  Maybe I was lucky, maybe it actually worked.  I'll never know which - that is what "not statistically significant" means. 

[cramx3]

My understanding was that cloth masks were known to be fairly ineffective but just that slight % of effectiveness was useful for slowing spread, especially when this all started.  My understanding is also that omnicron is much more likely to slip through a mask so the effectiveness is likely even lower these days, however, it still may be enough to be worthy. 

The N95 mask was always known to be the right protection, but that wasn't an option early on due to limited supply.  It just sucks our US government only just now is rolling out free N95 masks.  That should have been done as soon as supply started filling back up and we wouldn't have to take from the folks most needing the protection in the medical field.  We're at a point where a lot of the US doesn't care about covid anymore so rolling out free masks is kind of just a waste at the moment.

Personally, I'm back to being maskless.  My covid cough is finally gone, so other than work and public transportation where it's required, I'm maskless again and from my experience, a lot of people around here have started taking them off again as well. 

[ReaPsTA]

Here is how the CDC markets this study on Twitter: "A new @CDCMMWR study shows that people who reported always wearing masks or respirators in indoor public settings in California were less likely to test positive for #COVID19 compared with those who reported not wearing a face covering. Learn more."

I am aware that, in statistical terms "not statistically significant" doesn't mean no change was observed at all. But that also means it should not be reported to the public that you concluded wearing a cloth mask makes you less likely to test positive for COVID.

And again, this is a telephone survey.

I do a lot of things that do not have rigorous scientific analysis backing them up, which is fine. Even if it works, that doesn't mean it's science that can be used for public policy or recommendations from what's at least supposed to be a health authority.

[Skeever]

My understanding was that cloth masks were known to be fairly ineffective but just that slight % of effectiveness was useful for slowing spread, especially when this all started.  My understanding is also that omnicron is much more likely to slip through a mask so the effectiveness is likely even lower these days, however, it still may be enough to be worthy. 

The N95 mask was always known to be the right protection, but that wasn't an option early on due to limited supply.  It just sucks our US government only just now is rolling out free N95 masks.  That should have been done as soon as supply started filling back up and we wouldn't have to take from the folks most needing the protection in the medical field.  We're at a point where a lot of the US doesn't care about covid anymore so rolling out free masks is kind of just a waste at the moment.

Personally, I'm back to being maskless.  My covid cough is finally gone, so other than work and public transportation where it's required, I'm maskless again and from my experience, a lot of people around here have started taking them off again as well.

This is 100% my understanding from the beginning as well.

[ReaperKK]

Fallon can be good in a skit situation.  But he's a TERRIBLE interviewer.

I think the best person in late night right now is probably Kimmel.  Colbert has the intellect to be good, but he spends too much time portraying a fake funny persona.  I much preferred him on Comedy Central. 

I was really disappointed when Colbert moved away from CC

[ReaPsTA]

Fallon can be good in a skit situation.  But he's a TERRIBLE interviewer.

I think the best person in late night right now is probably Kimmel.  Colbert has the intellect to be good, but he spends too much time portraying a fake funny persona.  I much preferred him on Comedy Central. 

I was really disappointed when Colbert moved away from CC

The reality is as a performer Colbert is not comfortable with going on a stage and putting on a sincere persona. He always has to have some wrapper around it. I don't know of any Late Night host this worked for.

[Cool Chris]

So we were talking about my daughter's upcoming 11th birthday, and the 4-5 friends she wanted to invite, and my wife said she wanted to ensure all those kids were vaccinated. Are we at that point now? Vax cards needed to go to a friend's house? I am not saying my wife is wrong; it is meant as an honest question, and I get it is up to every individual. I just do not know if I am at that point while my wife is.

[Ben_Jamin]

So we were talking about my daughter's upcoming 11th birthday, and the 4-5 friends she wanted to invite, and my wife said she wanted to ensure all those kids were vaccinated. Are we at that point now? Vax cards needed to go to a friend's house? I am not saying my wife is wrong; it is meant as an honest question, and I get it is up to every individual. I just do not know if I am at that point while my wife is.

I've been going to friends  houses, friends have been seeing me, and kids have been playing together without any concern at all if anyone is vaccinated or not.

As I've said, it's all dependent on a person's mindset and how much they fear this virus.

[Harmony]

It also could have absolutely nothing to do with a fearful mindset and everything to do with employment or other responsibilities.

IIRC Chris' wife is a teacher.  Many teachers have already had to quarantine or completely restructure their classrooms because of a Covid outbreak many times.  There is only so much sick time given to employees and many have already used all of theirs up.

I know for me personally when I got exposed it caused my contractor to halt work at our house for a week out of caution for protection of him and his employees and other independent contractors (carpet installer, electrician, plumber) who lose money if they cannot work due to Covid.

So I don't assume it is a fear based reaction at all.  It could completely be an economic issue, a work flow issue, or "I'm just not wanting to deal with the hassle of being exposed" issue.

[Ben_Jamin]

It also could have absolutely nothing to do with a fearful mindset and everything to do with employment or other responsibilities.

IIRC Chris' wife is a teacher.  Many teachers have already had to quarantine or completely restructure their classrooms because of a Covid outbreak many times.  There is only so much sick time given to employees and many have already used all of theirs up.

I know for me personally when I got exposed it caused my contractor to halt work at our house for a week out of caution for protection of him and his employees and other independent contractors (carpet installer, electrician, plumber) who lose money if they cannot work due to Covid.

So I don't assume it is a fear based reaction at all.  It could completely be an economic issue, a work flow issue, or "I'm just not wanting to deal with the hassle of being exposed" issue.

But, in the end, they are still concerned or worried about possible outcomes.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/science-choice/201812/anxiety-vs-fear

Anxiety is seldom pathological, even when intense, until it becomes chronic and consistently interferes with performance and enjoyment of life. When anxiety is excessive and disconnected from reality, it no longer provides an accurate and reliable signal of danger. Thus you might feel anxious thinking about an important exam, going to a dinner party where you don't know people, or traveling to an unfamiliar place. These anxious thoughts are driven by "what if?" thinking (e.g., "What if I don't do all my studies?" or "What if I don't know anyone?").

Now think of this...If one of her friends she wanted to invite is unvaccinated and she can't attend her friends party. How will that child be affected mentally because she couldn't attend her friends party that they will be discussing and talking all about at school? That child would feel left out of the in-group discussion that was had at the party, in which she becomes the outsider to the discussion of the party.

This pandemic is really affecting people's mindsets. And I am noticing this a lot with people's behaviors, attitudes, and the ways they are actually interacting with others. Some mindsets have changed while others have not, meaning their behaviors and attitudes to those closest to them or, in general, others has not changed. Some people don't even care at all what another person does, but will do whatever to prevent themselves from the others actions.

A great way to witness people's mindsets are while driving. I have a friend who will assume the car in front of her on the slow lane is going to pass the car ahead and will drive slower until they do pass. I tell her, that's what the blinker is for, just pass them and keep going. But people don't use their blinkers, which is why she assumes the other person is suddenly going to jump in front of her and pass, causing her to brake and possibly slide. I actually laughed one time because she got herself frustrated and stressed out because of these assumptions, and I was all to myself, "Well, if you would've went this way instead of going the way you did you wouldn't be frustrated, but you didn't want to drive down this other street because of whatever. 


Basically, Cool Chris, my answer is...If people want to go to those lengths to protect themselves, why not. But, there are also outcomes that can have effects mentally and socially that many people are unaware of until the outcome comes to fruition.

[Cool Chris]

Good memory Harmony, yes she is a teacher and works with some medically fragile (her words) kids. That has informed many of her decisions over the past two years related to Covid. But this one was based strictly on our family. She said we have done too much for too long to let our guard down and potentially expose ourselves to Covid (her words, paraphrased). While sound reasoning, I wasn't sure I was ready to make the leap to verifying any guests in my house have been vaccinated, especially since now it apparently(?) has less of an affect on transmission to others. My family is vaccinated (except for our 4 year old) as we decided that is best for our family. I would ask (and hope) if someone was experiencing any symptoms they would not come over, and maybe that should be the case any time. Some people are requesting guests be vaccinated, that is fine, it is their home. I just don't know if I am ready to do that.

[TAC]

Chris, I hate to even make a comment, as it is your family and I respect that. Honestly the only thing that I could think of is your 11 y/o getting caught in the middle of this. To think that she may have a friend not be able to come over I would think would be upsetting to her.

Are you friends with any of her friends' parents? Is it possibly to hold the party outside as a compromise of some sort? Maybe celebrate with your immediate family first, including grandparents, before the kid party?

I feel like as far as Covid goes, we take are chances all day every day no matter what we go or where we go.. Nothing is normal, but I would stress to my wife that an 11 y/o's birthday party should be the exception. All she wants is her birthday, I would assume.

[Cool Chris]

I feel the same; she shouldn't be kept apart from a friend if her parents didn't want to get her vaxxed. The past two years we have had a small family birthday party (my parents and sister's family) and then small party with a couple friends. Christmas and Thanksgiving have been with immediate family. We have done all we reasonably could to make sure birthdays, holidays, and such are as "normal" as possible.

We are friendly with her friends' parents to the point where asking if they have been vaxxed shouldn't be (too) awkward.

But again, if being vaxxed doesn't affect transmission, why does it matter? If they have symptoms, stay home. Just as if it was 2019, I would hope a friend or their parents would say "hey, sorry I can't come, I think I have a cold."

[Grappler]

I'm letting my kids do things like kids birthday parties.  It's not really up to me to ask some other family if their kids are vaccinated and that would likely upset a lot of families around us to even ask that question.  My 6 year old is vaccinated, so I'm fine with it. 


I've been following the Illinois school drama all weekend - Friday evening, the courts determined that our governor's mandatory mask mandate in schools is a violation of civil rights/due process.  You can't force people to do something they don't' want to do, and you can't force them to be quarantined (excluded) from school without due process.  There are processes in place for suspensions or kids being expelled - you don't just say "well you can't come to school for 5 days because we say so."  The judge had a scathing rebuke to the governor and asked that all school districts in the state "govern themselves accordingly."  According to the judge's ruling, or according to the district's own decisions, isn't spelled out - it's left open to interpretation. 

Many school districts used the ruling to go mask optional, including in neighboring towns.  If your school was a defendant (142 districts) then you were forced into that change.  Our school district took a "wait and see" approach, since the appeal will be decided in two weeks.  They also advised that they are forming a committee to create an endemic plan to move us out of the hard masking/quarantining rules with parent/staff/teacher input.  Masks are still required until further notice.

This outraged many anti-mask parents, who feel that the judge's ruling prevents them from doing so, and our schools are going to face a bunch of angry parents trying to push their way around this morning.  It's really sad to see teachers and staff in the crossfire - one dad actually said that he's done respecting teachers because the teachers haven't respected his kids.  How have things devolved to this level of anger towards educators, and even doctors?  I feel bad for the kids and the school staff - my daughter is very likely to see a bunch of drama while at school today, as there will be plenty of parents sending their kids without masks in order to try and force the schools into submission. 

[ReaPsTA]

How have things devolved to this level of anger towards educators, and even doctors?

Do you not understand why parents would be enraged by their children being muzzled?