Coronavirus Thread v.2

[lonestar]

My dad can't pick something from a menu because it's overwhelming now.  So I help him out.  So he's not able to process if he should take the vaccine Ben, we have to help him in that decision.  How do you not understand that with the eldery?

I just can't anymore dude. Probably thinks a two year old should be asked whether to get his polio and measles shots as well.

[Adami]

The ignore feature has been fantastic. Just sayin.

[Dream Team]

The ignorance of the common, average person continues to amaze me. We've had the pandemic for 2 years now, but we've got people in the area where I live calling in "Covic" and "Cova". For real. Sorry to derail the topic but this seemed the best place to post that ridiculous tidbit.

[cramx3]

The ignorance of the common, average person continues to amaze me. We've had the pandemic for 2 years now, but we've got people in the area where I live calling in "Covic" and "Cova". For real. Sorry to derail the topic but this seemed the best place to post that ridiculous tidbit.

My good friend is a pediatrician.  The daily stories of parents coming in and having such little knowledge about covid is so shocking at this point. 

[lonestar]

The ignore feature has been fantastic. Just sayin.

C'mon man, Stadler isn't that bad...

[Adami]

The ignore feature has been fantastic. Just sayin.

C'mon man, Stadler isn't that bad...

Who?

[lonestar]

 

[King Postwhore]

The ignore feature has been fantastic. Just sayin.

C'mon man, Stadler isn't that bad...

Who?

Surely you can't be serious?

[Adami]

The ignore feature has been fantastic. Just sayin.

C'mon man, Stadler isn't that bad...

Who?

Surely you can't be serious?

Of course I’m not serious.


And don’t call me Shirley.


I have one person on my block list and it isn’t, hasn’t been, and won’t be Stadler. He’s my bro.

[King Postwhore]

You make my heart swoon getting that line.  I know you understand that there needs to be levity with coronavirus.  Ben also needs to understand not every post on this thread is a debate.  Some need to vent, some need to talk about their pain and some do need to talk about the political aspects as well.  You just need to understand where the other person is going with their post.

[Ben_Jamin]

You make my heart swoon getting that line.  I know you understand that there needs to be levity with coronavirus.  Ben also needs to understand not every post on this thread is a debate.  Some need to vent, some need to talk about their pain and some do need to talk about the political aspects as well.  You just need to understand where the other person is going with their post.

Aight.  I'll take all these types of discussions into the Political and Religious thread and leave this as the vent and grief thread. I recognize such a thread needs to exist as well. I am very sorry for the way I was posting and will not post here again.

[King Postwhore]

Ben you can post here.  No one is saying otherwise.  You just need to see when a person is venting, or isn't up for a debate.  That's all. 

[Anguyen92]

The ignore feature has been fantastic. Just sayin.

Wait, what?  This forum does have one of those?  Where can I find it?

[Adami]

The ignore feature has been fantastic. Just sayin.

Wait, what?  This forum does have one of those?  Where can I find it?

If you click "profile" at the top, then hover over "modify profile" there is a block list option.

[Anguyen92]

Ahhh, found it.  Thank you.

[DragonAttack]

I wrote....
At least they are alive, and though recovery will take time, they have a future.

Scary man... As much as I itch to get back to a show, stories like this keep me from pulling the trigger. Hope they recover well.
[/quote]

Yeah this. I've not been a nervous nellie throughout all of this, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about the DT show that was scheduled this November. My son was going with me, and I would've never forgiven myself if anything happened to him.

Damn, Joe, everytime you post in this thread, you have bad news about someone you know. I'm very sorry to hear that.

Tell you what...until this is over, let's pretend we don't know each other..
I'm joking obviously.

The brother in law of a woman my wife works with just passed away at the ripe old age of 57. He and his wife were anti vaxxers.
[/quote]

Being a Debbie Downer is wearing, isn't it?

The good news is that both should be released Saturday or Sunday.  Here's something 'different':  they have to pay $1600 each for the oxygen out of pocket.  If they do not, and they have to wait for insurance to pay for the oxygen, that takes an additional two weeks, so they would have to both stay in the hospital.  An aspect that I hadn't heard of, and do not know if has been mentioned in this long thread.  The husband works for Northrop-Grumman, so their coverage should be pretty top notch.

The teenager I mentioned weeks ago that was intubated is home and progressing slowly day by day.  We flew to Minneapolis three weeks ago to see one of our twin nieces (a twin in the Twin Cities ).  My wife and I each had N95 masks for the flight, wore them indoors, etc.  Her twin sister, who I had mentioned eons ago that had contacted Covid 2x last year, well, she is now vaxxed and......  got it again last month!  But, it was 'only' a couple of horrible days and nothing like the first time. So that is good news, right? 

[Stadler]

The sobering part? She wasn't vaxxed. Against his and her doctor's wishes, the rest of the family decided she was too old for the shot, and were wary of it doing more harm than good, even though the doctor pleaded with them otherwise. He's so angry with his family, that this didn't have to happen even though she led a full and good life.

This happened in my wife's family.  Her dad is 70 and has Crohn's.  His body is so wrecked from bouts with that illness.  In addition, a severe allergic reaction to penicillin about 20 years ago damaged his kidneys pretty badly.  If he gets covid, he dies.  Period.

He was so antsy to get the vaccine and my wife fought hard to get him an appointment back in March, when it was just becoming available for high-risk and the elderly. 

His two Republican sisters called him the day before his appointment and told him not to get vaccinated because it's "such a new vaccine and it hasn't been tested enough on elderly patients."   We were absolutely furious, especially because my wife spent DAYS on her phone trying to book him an appointment.  They know his health conditions inside and out, yet they put their political beliefs ahead of their own brother's best interests.  Thankfully, he didn't listen to them.

Late to the party here, as I was traveling a bit (yes, got tested immediately on my return, at the airport, and will get tested again probably Monday or Tuesday to be safe).  First and foremost, RJ, Grappler, sorry for the trauma your friends/families are enduring.  Should go without saying, but needs to be said nonetheless.

But it shouldn't be both ways.   Ben took a beating for responding in a way that didn't put aside any objective concerns (despite having elements of truth in his response), and was lectured for being insensitive, but it seems all the "vents" themselves take free liberty to make points (some political) and draw conclusion (some subjective) free of reproach.  "Isn't properly tested on the elderly" is not a political statement, it's a misstatement of scientific fact.   Yet, we're free to point fingers at the REPUBLICANS because, well, why not, they're deplorable and everyone grieves differently?

The FACT is, despite the inflammatory articles and headlines that are catnip for the partisan, there's only a 10% gap in vaccination rates between Republicans and Democrats when looked at on a county-by-county basis.

I can empathize, though, since I'm in the exact same boat; I have an 84-year-old mom with dementia, and an 82-year-old immuno-compromised father who is her sole caregiver.  I have power of attorney over both of them; maybe it's my law training, maybe it's something else, but I make decisions as best I can and try to do so through THEIR eyes, not mine own, but it's never easy.  DAD made the decision for the vaccines, based almost solely on his discussions with his and her doctors.  He's no pushover, but he has a deep and abiding faith in the medical community, despite being a Republican, and despite watching more Sean Hannity than I can tolerate (which is to say, none).  A lifetime of dealing with significant health issues will give you that confidence in their expertise, I guess; small favors!    I'm not going to lie: I'm REALLY glad I didn't have to make that decision for them (though once they decided, I did all the planning and scheduling). 

[King Postwhore]

Ben took guff for wanting a discussion where the other participant did not want to debate.  there has to be a recognition to just not respond to someone not looking to debate. 

There's a big difference.  I tried to say that without stepping over the line myself.  When talking about loss from coronavirus, no one should debate that.   


Edit, where did you go Stads?  I'm traveling to Dallas next week.

[lonestar]

Some moments in life, some moments shared should be immune from objective discussions, especially cold and logical ones. Part of growing up is learning how to discern them.

[bosk1]

How I read the above series of posts is that I think the main problem is Ben and RJ were just talking past each other.  RJ set the tone in his post that what he was looking for was sympathy for a tragic situation.  Ben didn't pick up on the cue, and went to a discussion more about the "choice" aspect of it and how his culture does not necessarily look upon that type of death as tragic, which missed the mark and poured salt in the wound of what RJ was doing.  I think he just didn't "get" where RJ was coming from, and hence, didn't understand why his post missed the mark and upset RJ (and potentially others).  I think it's as simple as that.  Doesn't mean he is a bad person, or is insensitive, or that he should be vilified the way he was.  Sometimes, people just miss the mark.  I think a bit more understanding and forgiveness on both sides would go a long way.  But I guess that's between y'all, so I'll but out now that I've offered my two cents.

[Stadler]

Some moments in life, some moments shared should be immune from objective discussions, especially cold and logical ones. Part of growing up is learning how to discern them.

AND

Ben took guff for wanting a discussion where the other participant did not want to debate.  there has to be a recognition to just not respond to someone not looking to debate. 

There's a big difference.  I tried to say that without stepping over the line myself.  When talking about loss from coronavirus, no one should debate that.

There's no fundamental disagreement here in principle.   I hear you and mostly agree.  I'm only saying that it takes compassion and understanding from ALL of us when the emotions are so heavily tied to the non-emotional aspect of things.   I try to be exceedingly sensitive when the emotion is sadness from losing a loved one, or regret from what could have been.   (My only reply to Lonestar's post was my sympathy for the loss).  I think - and I'm not pointing to any one post here, just commenting in general - it's not fair to expect exactly the same degree sensitivity when the emotion in play is anger that people aren't doing/thinking the way we want them to.

Let's leave it at that, since as I said, there's no fundamental disagreement.

EDIT:  Quasi ninja'd by Bosk.

Edit, where did you go Stads?  I'm traveling to Dallas next week.

I was in Southwest Florida, with my parents.   Being in Florida was fine; for the most part there are no masks, but for the most part there is social distancing more or less (so much is outside there).  The airports/travel was a stressful experience, to say the least.  It seems to me the airlines have adjusted; there are less people flying, but they've cut back on their planes, so the planes are just as full.  All four of my flights were completely full with a standby list.

[TAC]

Four flights??

[lonestar]

That's a legit assesment, though I wasn't really looking for sympathy, but was more putting a personal and intimate face on the downside of the whole anti-vax movement, that people are needlessly dying because of massive amounts of misinformation. As to what transpired between Ben and I, I said my piece and am stepping out of the argument.



Now...onto the good stuff. With some of the best numbers of the Delta surge in the nation, the SF Bay Area announced that they will be easing mask mandates next Friday.

[Adami]

I'm getting pretty nervous about travelling to Israel. I booked a trip there with my girlfriend for early November back in....April? May? Figuring things would be a bit easier by now. I'm taking her there to meet my mom so that other things can progress. Well, as of now Israel still isn't letting in individual foreigners without very special reasons. They are supposed to make an announcement soon about easing restrictions, but it's all just so tight. The flight is Nov 2nd or 3rd and it would take a few weeks for her to fill out the necessary paperwork. Their cases are quite low at the moment, and I get playing it safe, but I won't have another opportunity to go with her till at least summer or early Fall 2022. I hope they make some announcement soon and that it's good news we can jump on.

[lonestar]

I'm getting pretty nervous about travelling to Israel. I booked a trip there with my girlfriend for early November back in....April? May? Figuring things would be a bit easier by now. I'm taking her there to meet my mom so that other things can progress. Well, as of now Israel still isn't letting in individual foreigners without very special reasons. They are supposed to make an announcement soon about easing restrictions, but it's all just so tight. The flight is Nov 2nd or 3rd and it would take a few weeks for her to fill out the necessary paperwork. Their cases are quite low at the moment, and I get playing it safe, but I won't have another opportunity to go with her till at least summer or early Fall 2022. I hope they make some announcement soon and that it's good news we can jump on.

They're well ahead of pretty much everyone else on the vaccine curve, right? Aren't they already well into booster rounds?

[Stadler]

Four flights??

BDL -> ATL -> RSW
RSW -> ATL -> BDL

Two legs in either direction.

[Adami]

I'm getting pretty nervous about travelling to Israel. I booked a trip there with my girlfriend for early November back in....April? May? Figuring things would be a bit easier by now. I'm taking her there to meet my mom so that other things can progress. Well, as of now Israel still isn't letting in individual foreigners without very special reasons. They are supposed to make an announcement soon about easing restrictions, but it's all just so tight. The flight is Nov 2nd or 3rd and it would take a few weeks for her to fill out the necessary paperwork. Their cases are quite low at the moment, and I get playing it safe, but I won't have another opportunity to go with her till at least summer or early Fall 2022. I hope they make some announcement soon and that it's good news we can jump on.

They're well ahead of pretty much everyone else on the vaccine curve, right? Aren't they already well into booster rounds?

Yea. They’re doing quite well. With like 75% or something of major cases being the unvaccinated. And most have their boosters. Still not letting non citizens in without special reasons.

Of course this wasn’t helped when a ton of Orthodox Jews went to Ukraine for a yearly pilgrimage and faked vaccine cards/negative tests to get back in, thus bringing back a considerable amount of Covid because blah blah blah I am unhappy with them.

[lonestar]

I'm getting pretty nervous about travelling to Israel. I booked a trip there with my girlfriend for early November back in....April? May? Figuring things would be a bit easier by now. I'm taking her there to meet my mom so that other things can progress. Well, as of now Israel still isn't letting in individual foreigners without very special reasons. They are supposed to make an announcement soon about easing restrictions, but it's all just so tight. The flight is Nov 2nd or 3rd and it would take a few weeks for her to fill out the necessary paperwork. Their cases are quite low at the moment, and I get playing it safe, but I won't have another opportunity to go with her till at least summer or early Fall 2022. I hope they make some announcement soon and that it's good news we can jump on.

They're well ahead of pretty much everyone else on the vaccine curve, right? Aren't they already well into booster rounds?

Yea. They’re doing quite well. With like 75% or something of major cases being the unvaccinated. And most have their boosters. Still not letting non citizens in without special reasons.

Of course this wasn’t helped when a ton of Orthodox Jews went to Ukraine for a yearly pilgrimage and faked vaccine cards/negative tests to get back in, thus bringing back a considerable amount of Covid because blah blah blah I am unhappy with them.

The religious exemption in action.

[King Postwhore]

Four flights??

BDL -> ATL -> RSW
RSW -> ATL -> BDL

Two legs in either direction.

Same for me next week with both stops in Chicago via Dallas.

[TAC]

Four flights??

BDL -> ATL -> RSW
RSW -> ATL -> BDL

Two legs in either direction.

Gotcha. No direct flights from CT.

[Stadler]

Now...onto the good stuff. With some of the best numbers of the Delta surge in the nation, the SF Bay Area announced that they will be easing mask mandates next Friday.

The Delta surge is interesting; it looks to be following that similar COVID ebb and flow of roughly two months.  That aspect of this virus is fascinating.

This is Yahoo, but it's the same article that originally appeared in the NY Times "Morning" publication (which is excellent, by the way).

One thing that sticks out at me, primarily because I have posted it here before, is this quote:
“We’ve ascribed far too much human authority over the virus,” as Michael Osterholm, an infectious-disease expert at the University of Minnesota, has told me.

[Ben_Jamin]

Now...onto the good stuff. With some of the best numbers of the Delta surge in the nation, the SF Bay Area announced that they will be easing mask mandates next Friday.

The Delta surge is interesting; it looks to be following that similar COVID ebb and flow of roughly two months.  That aspect of this virus is fascinating.

This is Yahoo, but it's the same article that originally appeared in the NY Times "Morning" publication (which is excellent, by the way).

One thing that sticks out at me, primarily because I have posted it here before, is this quote:
“We’ve ascribed far too much human authority over the virus,” as Michael Osterholm, an infectious-disease expert at the University of Minnesota, has told me.

And how does that authority transpire into the reactions of the people? By generating fear, you create panic and in the state of panic people will start to look for help and end up resorting to their leaders for guidance on what to do.

This leads followers to easily be manipulated into authoritarian control and demands. It then forms a justification for the authority under the context of public safety and the health of the community, for their mandates and orders.

And this quote from that article shows that fear of the unknown...

Public health researchers do not understand why. Many popular explanations — such as seasonality or the ebbs and flows of mask wearing and social distancing — are clearly insufficient, if not wrong. The two-month cycle has occurred during different seasons of the year and occurred even when human behavior was not changing in obvious ways.

The most-plausible explanations involve some combination of virus biology and social networks. Perhaps each virus variant is especially likely to infect some people but not others — and once many of the most vulnerable have been exposed, the virus recedes. And perhaps a variant needs about two months to circulate through an average-sized community.

Also, if you took a vaccine then your symptoms should be similar to the common cold. And thus, it's not an illness one should be concerned about more so than the other sicknesses you can still get, unrelated to the Covid-19 strand of Coronaviruses.

[cramx3]

Now...onto the good stuff. With some of the best numbers of the Delta surge in the nation, the SF Bay Area announced that they will be easing mask mandates next Friday.

The Delta surge is interesting; it looks to be following that similar COVID ebb and flow of roughly two months.  That aspect of this virus is fascinating.

This is Yahoo, but it's the same article that originally appeared in the NY Times "Morning" publication (which is excellent, by the way).

One thing that sticks out at me, primarily because I have posted it here before, is this quote:
“We’ve ascribed far too much human authority over the virus,” as Michael Osterholm, an infectious-disease expert at the University of Minnesota, has told me.

Yeah, the two month curve thing is very interesting IMO.  I mentioned this back in August as saying we'd see cases come down soon based solely on how previous waves had similar patterns.  I wasn't off by much and it's really surprising because with schools returning and packed college stadiums, tons of bands touring to huge crowds, you'd expect the cases to still rise and they haven't. It kept to the same pattern and there's not a single expert I've read who knows why this is the case.  The best guess is because "that variant swept through the susceptible population". 

Anyway, having said that the delta wave is on the down turn seemingly (this is no guarantee btw) a lot of experts are starting to think we have now experienced the worst of covid and the waves in the future are likely to be smaller. And we should have "control" over the virus within the next year (Maybe by summer 2022).  Just predictions, but I can see and understand why they are predicting this.  For now.  This stuff changes fairly rapidly.  It also could be a good reason why DT did postpone the tour, it's possible (and I didn't think this at all was possible a couple weeks ago) that February will be better than November.

Speaking of Florida, my parents were just up here last weekend from Florida to go to a wedding.  It was very nice to see them and we all had fun at the wedding.  They didn't mention anything odd about flying.  I'll be going down there for Thanksgiving, but before that I'll also be flying for one day to Atlanta to see Metallica and Greta Van Fleet.  And now work is asking HR for approval to send me to Amsterdam in December.  With how my summer went (21 concerts) it very much feels like the pandemic is mostly in the past. As in, the lockdowns and restrictions and most of the masking.  I don't expect covid to go anywhere, I may even catch it at some point, we will always see cases IMO but life is moving on from my perspective. 

[YngVai]

I find myself constantly conflicted about how I feel about this whole thing.

 We lost my grandfather to it in December, so part of me can't help but taking it a bit personally when people balk/bitch about restrictions or out-right deny that anything needs to be done.

On the other hand, I wasn't particularly close with him. There wasn't any drama or anything, we're just different people, and I've been bad about letting life in general distract me from being an active participant in my family as an adult. This makes it feel a bit performative (albeit internally) when I get upset at anti-vaxxers/maskers. 

The pandemic came at a bad time, I'd just moved across the country to a large city to take a crack at finding my place in a bigger music scene, and all the inroads I'd made had just been eviscerated. Other than that, many many people have had it worse, and my day-to-day went back to somewhat normal shortly into the pandemic. I've got a great partner, found a decent day job to keep me grounded, and I still managed to get out and gig at least every month or so, so I feel guilty about some of the indignation I feel.

Like, who am I to judge? I do a lot of the same shit as before, just wearing a mask at the store or in the time it takes to get from the door to my table. I've flown to Texas and back (gasp!) and will do so again next week for a bachelor party, and was very on the "I've had my shot, I'm done with masks" train for a few weeks before the mandates came back, and now I'm back to being judgy when I see someone without one at Home Depot.

I don't know, this whole thing's weird.

[lonestar]

Now...onto the good stuff. With some of the best numbers of the Delta surge in the nation, the SF Bay Area announced that they will be easing mask mandates next Friday.

The Delta surge is interesting; it looks to be following that similar COVID ebb and flow of roughly two months.  That aspect of this virus is fascinating.

This is Yahoo, but it's the same article that originally appeared in the NY Times "Morning" publication (which is excellent, by the way).

One thing that sticks out at me, primarily because I have posted it here before, is this quote:
“We’ve ascribed far too much human authority over the virus,” as Michael Osterholm, an infectious-disease expert at the University of Minnesota, has told me.

Yup, so much this. Each perspective of the battle against covid is very guilty of it, when in truth we're pretty fucking powerless. I think the sooner we admit that, and agree to throw everything we have at it instead of quibbling over stupid shit, we'll be out of this sooner.