Coronavirus Thread v.2

[Ben_Jamin]

They are just doing what is needed so that they can have fans in the arenas and complying with the rules given.

You can basically say this for any event.  I don't think my local ballroom wants to check people's vaccine cards for the concert tonight, but it's what's needed so the tours can safely happen and everyone can stay in business as well as comply with local laws.

Yup. They're coerced into doing it. Meaning if there were no consequences that dealt with the business, they would not require mandates. What their concern is for is their profits and losses. And so, the wise choice in being dealt this type of ultimatum is to comply or risk dealing with profit losses, and being charged a fee for not complying. It's not for safety, although that is a great selling point for a businesses now as people would feel safer and visit a place that requires and is enforcing the mandates.

Same thing Obama did with Health Insurance, by punishing the people with their taxes if they didn't comply with the ultimatum of the required mandated health insurance for all plan.


I have noticed a difference in those who do care and those that do not and the customers reactions as well. It's interesting how that fear shows, and the business workers and owners notice it as well. They notice the difference in reaction of the customers, and the interaction of the entire environment of the business itself.

How I noticed what type of business feels what is based on the type of signs they have on their door about the mandate requirements. Some you can see do not care at all based on their wording and phrasing of the mask mandate or the vaccine requirements.


But these are not laws. They're orders that expire once the pandemic is not declared as an emergency. These orders have not went through the legislative process, which is how the Untied States of America operates.

[cramx3]

They are just doing what is needed so that they can have fans in the arenas and complying with the rules given.

You can basically say this for any event.  I don't think my local ballroom wants to check people's vaccine cards for the concert tonight, but it's what's needed so the tours can safely happen and everyone can stay in business as well as comply with local laws.

Yup. They're coerced into doing it. Meaning if there were no consequences that dealt with the business, they would not require mandates. What their concern is for is their profits and losses. And so, the wise choice in being dealt this type of ultimatum is to comply or risk dealing with profit losses, and being charged a fee for not complying. It's not for safety, although that is a great selling point for a businesses now as people would feel safer and visit a place that requires and is enforcing the mandates.

I don't know how you get to the bolded. It is 100% about safety even if it may not be completely safe.

[lonestar]

Just look at the NBA not mandating vaccines,

They don't really have to. 90% of the league is already vaxxed and the remaining 10% will either have to be or risk losing lots of money due to local covid rules. 2 big name players already risk missing half the season as they are not allowed to play on their home court due to local rules. The NBA has already mandated that unvaccinated players missing games due to local rules will not be paid. The NBA is relying on the $$$$$ incentive forcing the players hand.

EDIT: Also, this:

“A vaccine mandate for NBA players would need an agreement with the Players Association," said Bass. "The NBA has made these proposals, but the players’ union has rejected any vaccination requirement.”

So the NBA is doing everything but mandate. Threaten the money, and they most likely comply.

This is raising up some hell here in SF with Wiggins holding out, since the mandate only applies to the Dubs. Visiting teams don't have to comply since they're considering touring performers.

[Ben_Jamin]

They are just doing what is needed so that they can have fans in the arenas and complying with the rules given.

You can basically say this for any event.  I don't think my local ballroom wants to check people's vaccine cards for the concert tonight, but it's what's needed so the tours can safely happen and everyone can stay in business as well as comply with local laws.

Yup. They're coerced into doing it. Meaning if there were no consequences that dealt with the business, they would not require mandates. What their concern is for is their profits and losses. And so, the wise choice in being dealt this type of ultimatum is to comply or risk dealing with profit losses, and being charged a fee for not complying. It's not for safety, although that is a great selling point for a businesses now as people would feel safer and visit a place that requires and is enforcing the mandates.

I don't know how you get to the bolded. It is 100% about safety even if it may not be completely safe.

I mean the intent of the some businesses is not about safety, and is more about the concern for losses, which would be devastating for some of these businesses. This is in regards to those claiming these businesses are so moral, and deserving of praise for doing what is considered doing the right thing. While shunning those businesses that are not complying as businesses that do not care, somehow holding them to some sort of moral standard, as if a business is required by law to have a HIGH moral standard.

[Anguyen92]

I don't think sports leagues/promoters/owners of buildings that holds massive gatherings for money are putting these mandates because of moral reasons.  It's more of them trying to cover their butts in the event that someone catches COVID during their events.  I think it's them saying, "We are making strides in doing what we can to hold these events so that people don't worry about catching COVID so that our butts don't go out of business one way or another."  It's still a small step of progress.  I guess.

[lonestar]

I don't think sports leagues/promoters/owners of buildings that holds massive gatherings for money are putting these mandates because of moral reasons.  It's more of them trying to cover their butts in the event that someone catches COVID during their events.  I think it's them saying, "We are making strides in doing what we can to hold these events so that people don't worry about catching COVID so that our butts don't go out of business one way or another."  It's still a small step of progress.  I guess.

In the case of the San Francisco teams, it's a city mandate they have to follow. It's tied to any indoor venue, the only wiggle room being given to the visiting performers.

[cramx3]

I feel like instances similar to this is why DT mention different mandates as a reason to postpone their tour.  It's a web of rules to try and follow with all the local mandates.

[TAC]

Just got ma Boostah!!!

[lonestar]

Just got ma Boostah!!!

Welcome to Club 3

[TAC]

Just got ma Boostah!!!

Welcome to Club 3

Thank you!


Dammit Bosk!!

[lonestar]

 


Also I was waiting for some New Englander to call it a boostah lol

[Ben_Jamin]

I feel like instances similar to this is why DT mention different mandates as a reason to postpone their tour.  It's a web of rules to try and follow with all the local mandates.

We know what happened with Unleash The Archers, and at the show I went to, they mentioned that revenue was lost by all the bands, and especially for Aether Realm whom travelled "So far" to not play a show.

[cramx3]

I feel like instances similar to this is why DT mention different mandates as a reason to postpone their tour.  It's a web of rules to try and follow with all the local mandates.

We know what happened with Unleash The Archers, and at the show I went to, they mentioned that revenue was lost by all the bands, and especially for Aether Realm whom travelled "So far" to not play a show.

That was due to the country (USA) having an issue with the band coming not just from Canada but from being in Belgium shortly before crossing the border from Canada.  None the less, a new rule/regulation that adds to the complexity of figuring out how to successfully tour.

[TAC]

Also I was waiting for some New Englander to call it a boostah lol

So I was at the dentist today, and I mentioned that my tooth was wicked tendah. I thought of this post and laughed right in the chair.

[vtgrad]

Also I was waiting for some New Englander to call it a boostah lol

So I was at the dentist today, and I mentioned that my tooth was wicked tendah. I thought of this post and laughed right in the chair.

You know, I expected to hear mare yankee in Ba Haa Ba... but I only got one "ayah" the whole week.  Did they see me comin and change the accent?

[TAC]

Hah!

When we used to drive to Disney a lot, up and down the entire east coast, I'd go in some place and literally say one sentence and I'd get..you're from Boston aren't you?

[lonestar]

Hah!

When we used to drive to Disney a lot, up and down the entire east coast, I'd go in some place and literally say one sentence and I'd get..you're from Boston aren't you?

My dad grew up in Lynn, moved out here when he was 17. If you get enough scotch in him, the accent comes out thick

[TAC]

Hah!

When we used to drive to Disney a lot, up and down the entire east coast, I'd go in some place and literally say one sentence and I'd get..you're from Boston aren't you?

My dad grew up in Lynn, moved out here when he was 17. If you get enough scotch in him, the accent comes out thick

Nice! That must be funny. The accent...

[King Postwhore]

I don't have accent at all.   

[jingle.boy]

I don't have accent at all.   

Your phone would like a word with you.

[King Postwhore]

Whateva. Lol

[Stadler]

The Boston accent is pretty much my favorite.  I lived with a guy - full Irish, too - from Acton during college, and it was pretty much every stereotype.

Second is the Scottish accent, third is the old school New York cab driver (think "Jerky Boys").

[Zydar]

I don't have accent at all.   

Wicked smaaht.

[lonestar]

The Boston accent is pretty much my favorite.  I lived with a guy - full Irish, too - from Acton during college, and it was pretty much every stereotype.

Second is the Scottish accent, third is the old school New York cab driver (think "Jerky Boys").

It really is awesome. A chef I used to work for was from Southie, and his accent was a fucking work of art.

[Harmony]

I've been sort of struggling with the notion that natural immunity isn't being considered with these new mandates in the states and yet in other countries it is taken into account.  Then I happened on this today and thought it was interesting.



Source, Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding, epidemiologist and health economist, Harvard

[lonestar]

I've been sort of struggling with the notion that natural immunity isn't being considered with these new mandates in the states and yet in other countries it is taken into account.  Then I happened on this today and thought it was interesting.



Source, Dr. Eric Feigl-Ding, epidemiologist and health economist, Harvard

Yeah, I've heard similar numbers elsewhere. It's a trip that we've gotten to a point where we can hack our body to be better than the tools evolution developed.

[MoraWintersoul]

It makes perfect sense to me that we're not considering natural immunity much. We've known since fall last year that reinfections happen, telling people they are exactly as safe as they would have been vaccinated would lead to deaths and problems.

[jingle.boy]

Our CEO has brought a few virologists/infectious disease experts to our company town hall's over the past year.  The last one on explained the "immunity" gained from infection vs vaccination like this - infection (of any virus/disease) builds up anti-bodies which are potent ... but temporary; vaccine trains your immune system (memory B-cells/T-cells) to attack the infection.  Antibodies are like the front line soldiers in a military force.  They're great at what they do, but they don't stick around when there's no battles to fight.  The memory cells are like The Reserves - they're always on hand, ready to jump to action whenever necessary.

Our blood can't keep anti-bodies for every disease/infection/virus it's ever seen... "it would turn to sludge" was the comment this doctor made.

So yeah... it's absolutely 100% natural (and the way our immune system is designed) for anti-bodies to be less effective (or non-existent) over time.

[Harmony]

I agree with that description of natural immunity.  However, it stands to reason then that someone who has had Covid disease would definitely benefit from 1 dose of the vaccine and not need the 2nd - or just get the JnJ.  That triggers the T and B cell response that those of us who have not had Covid gets from 2 (or 3) jabs.

I have not seen anything from mandates in the states that address this.  Likely because it would take more time and effort for employers to verify previous disease.  But supposedly they are taking the time to look into religious and medical exemptions so....

I also realize that many people assume they had Covid early on in the pandemic and never had any way to verify that.  I just saw a relative yesterday who told me she had Covid in March of 2020 and I was thinking - how do you know that?  Yes, you may have been quite ill, but they couldn't have possibly tested you at that time so it could've been the flu.  Regardless, she got fully vaccinated and will get the booster too.  But there are lots of people in this boat.

[Stadler]

I also realize that many people assume they had Covid early on in the pandemic and never had any way to verify that.  I just saw a relative yesterday who told me she had Covid in March of 2020 and I was thinking - how do you know that?  Yes, you may have been quite ill, but they couldn't have possibly tested you at that time so it could've been the flu.  Regardless, she got fully vaccinated and will get the booster too.  But there are lots of people in this boat.

We were talking about this last night, as a matter of fact.   I don't, but there are those in my family that believe I had it in February.  I get a lot of colds, but rarely get really sick; in February I was down for almost four days in a way that was very similar to my reaction to the first shot.  The person I was talking to had heard that if you have a stronger reaction to the first dose it may be an indicator you had it before (I don't know if that's true and I'm not putting it out there as fact, only to explain why my family thinks like they do).   I know someone here suspects they had it in.... I think it was January.    Who knows?

[Harmony]

I also realize that many people assume they had Covid early on in the pandemic and never had any way to verify that.  I just saw a relative yesterday who told me she had Covid in March of 2020 and I was thinking - how do you know that?  Yes, you may have been quite ill, but they couldn't have possibly tested you at that time so it could've been the flu.  Regardless, she got fully vaccinated and will get the booster too.  But there are lots of people in this boat.

We were talking about this last night, as a matter of fact.   I don't, but there are those in my family that believe I had it in February.  I get a lot of colds, but rarely get really sick; in February I was down for almost four days in a way that was very similar to my reaction to the first shot.  The person I was talking to had heard that if you have a stronger reaction to the first dose it may be an indicator you had it before (I don't know if that's true and I'm not putting it out there as fact, only to explain why my family thinks like they do).   I know someone here suspects they had it in.... I think it was January.    Who knows?

Who knows is right!  I don't think you will ever know for sure especially now that you've been vaccinated.  I might be wrong, but I don't think the antibody testing is sensitive enough to tease that out.  In fact, I've heard antibody testing isn't all that reliable at all.

As for reactions to the vaccine, I've read and listened to may physicians talk about this subject.  I don't think you having a reaction means you for sure had been exposed previously.  It would make sense to me that you'd think that but I don't believe it pans out in the literature.  I honestly believe there may be some genetic component to it.  It is just my hypothesis but if you had a bad reaction, ask your genetically linked family members and see if they did too.

I had a very mild reaction and nobody I know of in my genetic line had much of a reaction either, FWIW.  I'd love to hear from others here whether or not they reacted differently than their relatives to the vaccine.  Test my hypothesis for me.   

[jingle.boy]

I had a very mild fever and aches with both shots and a bit of lethargy with my 2nd shot (recalling I had @# + Pfizer). Overall, pretty mild

Jingle.mom claims to have had virtually no reaction on both (Pfizer)

Jingle.kids were virtually nothing with 1st shot (Pfizer), but we’re both laid out the entire day after shot #2 (Moderna).

I don’t think I validate your hypothesis.

[Harmony]

I had a very mild fever and aches with both shots and a bit of lethargy with my 2nd shot (recalling I had @# + Pfizer). Overall, pretty mild

Jingle.mom claims to have had virtually no reaction on both (Pfizer)

Jingle.kids were virtually nothing with 1st shot (Pfizer), but we’re both laid out the entire day after shot #2 (Moderna).

I don’t think I validate your hypothesis.

Heh - I toss you out of my study because your kids got both Pfizer AND Moderna?  Wow.  That skews everything right there.   

[Stadler]

I had a very mild fever and aches with both shots and a bit of lethargy with my 2nd shot (recalling I had @# + Pfizer). Overall, pretty mild

Jingle.mom claims to have had virtually no reaction on both (Pfizer)

Jingle.kids were virtually nothing with 1st shot (Pfizer), but we’re both laid out the entire day after shot #2 (Moderna).

I don’t think I validate your hypothesis.

Heh - I toss you out of my study because your kids got both Pfizer AND Moderna?  Wow.  That skews everything right there.   

And let's hope Jingle isn't genetically related to Jingle.mom.......

[Stadler]

I also realize that many people assume they had Covid early on in the pandemic and never had any way to verify that.  I just saw a relative yesterday who told me she had Covid in March of 2020 and I was thinking - how do you know that?  Yes, you may have been quite ill, but they couldn't have possibly tested you at that time so it could've been the flu.  Regardless, she got fully vaccinated and will get the booster too.  But there are lots of people in this boat.

We were talking about this last night, as a matter of fact.   I don't, but there are those in my family that believe I had it in February.  I get a lot of colds, but rarely get really sick; in February I was down for almost four days in a way that was very similar to my reaction to the first shot.  The person I was talking to had heard that if you have a stronger reaction to the first dose it may be an indicator you had it before (I don't know if that's true and I'm not putting it out there as fact, only to explain why my family thinks like they do).   I know someone here suspects they had it in.... I think it was January.    Who knows?

Who knows is right!  I don't think you will ever know for sure especially now that you've been vaccinated.  I might be wrong, but I don't think the antibody testing is sensitive enough to tease that out.  In fact, I've heard antibody testing isn't all that reliable at all.

As for reactions to the vaccine, I've read and listened to may physicians talk about this subject.  I don't think you having a reaction means you for sure had been exposed previously.  It would make sense to me that you'd think that but I don't believe it pans out in the literature.  I honestly believe there may be some genetic component to it.  It is just my hypothesis but if you had a bad reaction, ask your genetically linked family members and see if they did too.

I had a very mild reaction and nobody I know of in my genetic line had much of a reaction either, FWIW.  I'd love to hear from others here whether or not they reacted differently than their relatives to the vaccine.  Test my hypothesis for me.   

No, I don't think I buy the "you had it you get a worse reaction"; that was actually my daughter-in-law.  Though her husband, my step son, offered that he heard it had something to do with blood type (he's military; he hears some interesting things through the military, many are true, some... not so much). I haven't actually researched either, to be honest.

I very much buy the genetic hypothesis though.   My parents had almost no reaction to either shot, nor did my daughter.  I had almost none to the second.  I'm the only one in the "sample size" to really have any reaction, and mine wasn't THAT bad, it was just "flu" body aches and chills for about eight hours and honestly I slept for most of it.