Author Topic: Coronavirus Thread v.2  (Read 195278 times)

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Online hunnus2000

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1925 on: September 16, 2021, 07:09:35 AM »
JFC... the first google search for Dr. Robert Malone...

Quote
A man by the name of Dr. Robert Malone has recently found fame through alternative media outlets, claiming to be the RNA vaccine inventor and spouting out a mishmash of misleading claims.

Malone is a scientist. In 1989, he co-wrote a paper titled "Cationic liposome-mediated RNA transfection." While his work on RNA transfection might have been important, his claim to be the “inventor” of RNA vaccines is shaky, to say the least.

The first page is littered with articles (from reputable sources) debunking his claims.
I'm shocked!

These alternative web-sites are the death of us. Penn University researchers Drew Weissman and Katalin Kariko spearheaded the mRNA technology and in fact just received an award from the Albany Medical Center.

Offline darkshade

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1926 on: September 16, 2021, 07:26:45 AM »
Your first mistake was trusting a google search, especially going with the first result.

All sources must be taken with a grain of salt. I wouldn't trust ANYTHING I hear or read on the internet, as most sites are corrupt, and engage in censorship of some form or another.

Is the information Dr. Malone presents in the video inaccurate?? That is what is important.

Most media outlets reported the Invectermin OD story which turned out to be fake and no one has lost their jobs over it, nor has there been national outrage over it.

Offline darkshade

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1927 on: September 16, 2021, 07:34:16 AM »
JFC... the first google search for Dr. Robert Malone...

Quote
A man by the name of Dr. Robert Malone has recently found fame through alternative media outlets, claiming to be the RNA vaccine inventor and spouting out a mishmash of misleading claims.

Malone is a scientist. In 1989, he co-wrote a paper titled "Cationic liposome-mediated RNA transfection." While his work on RNA transfection might have been important, his claim to be the “inventor” of RNA vaccines is shaky, to say the least.

The first page is littered with articles (from reputable sources) debunking his claims.

I looked up his name on Google, and an article by The Atlantic first came up about him trying to spread 'disinformation'.
The Atlantic is NOT a reputable source.

Other links send you to articles explaining that the creation of the vaccines was a collaborative effort, so you can't say he had no part in it, but perhaps embellishing his involvement is unnecessary.

Online lonestar

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1928 on: September 16, 2021, 07:41:41 AM »
So it's fake news then?  :lol


Searched him on Duck Duck Go, first page there syas he's full of shit too.

Offline darkshade

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1929 on: September 16, 2021, 07:46:49 AM »
So it's fake news then?  :lol


Searched him on Duck Duck Go, first page there syas he's full of shit too.

All these major search engines are untrustworthy, especially when you take links off page 1.

What do you mean, 'full of shit', the link titles say he had no part in the creation of the vaccines? That is false.
The link I posted is from Jimmy Dore, he doesn't tend to bring on guests who are 'full of shit'.
Is the info he presented in the video inaccurate? Are the Pharmaceutical companies just looking out for us common plebes?

Offline Skeever

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1930 on: September 16, 2021, 07:58:09 AM »
Your first mistake was trusting a google search, especially going with the first result.

All sources must be taken with a grain of salt. I wouldn't trust ANYTHING I hear or read on the internet, as most sites are corrupt, and engage in censorship of some form or another.

Is the information Dr. Malone presents in the video inaccurate?? That is what is important.

Most media outlets reported the Invectermin OD story which turned out to be fake and no one has lost their jobs over it, nor has there been national outrage over it.

There is nothing to respond to. He is a guy who feels a certain way about the vaccine rollout, but just because he was part of the invention of mRNA does not mean he has any access to any information that the rest of us don’t or that he is doing research on this mRNA vaccine. If he feels like the public are being misled about the side effects that’s his prerogative and he can have that opinion but I would just say what I’ve been telling people all along, talk to your doctor about it and bring those questions to them. If you’re worried that your doctor is not taking your questions and your particular situation seriously, then it’s time to get a new doctor. A good doctor will care about your current existing conditions and questions/concerns you may have about whether you should take a vaccine or not.

Offline darkshade

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1931 on: September 16, 2021, 08:07:29 AM »
Your first mistake was trusting a google search, especially going with the first result.

All sources must be taken with a grain of salt. I wouldn't trust ANYTHING I hear or read on the internet, as most sites are corrupt, and engage in censorship of some form or another.

Is the information Dr. Malone presents in the video inaccurate?? That is what is important.

Most media outlets reported the Invectermin OD story which turned out to be fake and no one has lost their jobs over it, nor has there been national outrage over it.

There is nothing to respond to. He is a guy who feels a certain way about the vaccine rollout, but just because he was part of the invention of mRNA does not mean he has any access to any information that the rest of us don’t or that he is doing research on this mRNA vaccine. If he feels like the public are being misled about the side effects that’s his prerogative and he can have that opinion but I would just say what I’ve been telling people all along, talk to your doctor about it and bring those questions to them. If you’re worried that your doctor is not taking your questions and your particular situation seriously, then it’s time to get a new doctor. A good doctor will care about your current existing conditions and questions/concerns you may have about whether you should take a vaccine or not.

I agree with much of this, of course you should talk to your own doctor about your medical inquiries.
It's the outright dismissal of my post and the content posted because someone did a google search on the doctor, when those people have no medical degrees I am aware of, that is a problem. Search engine companies, news media outlets, and politicians also have no medical degrees either, yet they are pushing policies based on the opinion of one man (Tony Fauci). We shouldn't be afraid to share information or medical professional's opinions. No one here or on the youtube link is recommending doing anything without consulting your doctor first.
Something else talked about is the fear porn over the virus, and how it is because the pharma companies have a stranglehold over the news companies as well as most politicians, because they want to make more money off the vaccines, since early treatments are cheap and don't make those people rich. Dr. Malone is no more trustworthy than Dr. Fauci. Fauci, who has been wrong about almost everything related to covid (and HIV) still has his job from one administration to the next, and is constantly touted on TV and computer screens by the so-called reputable sources of news, but that's OK because HE'S the guy we have to 'trust'.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1932 on: September 16, 2021, 08:13:17 AM »
Are there videos out there that show packed hospitals across the US? There weren't any such videos out there in 2020, as far as I know, and last I checked, the pandemic was worse then, what with more deaths. In NYC, where covid was real bad, a makeshift hospital created for hospital overflow wasn't even used for extra covid patients, because it wasn't needed. In other countries, like Brazil, Philippines, for example, people filmed empty hospitals where their news outlets reported they were filled to the brim.

You must be very gullible to things like this https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRQvXF2S/

Offline Skeever

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1933 on: September 16, 2021, 08:15:19 AM »
I agree with much of this, of course you should talk to your own doctor about your medical inquiries.
It's the outright dismissal of my post and the content posted because someone did a google search on the doctor, when those people have no medical degrees I am aware of, that is a problem. Search engine companies, news media outlets, and politicians also have no medical degrees. We shouldn't be afraid to share information or medical professional's opinions. No one here or on the youtube link is recommending doing anything without consulting your doctor first.

For what it's worth, I don't think you did anything wrong by sharing the link to the Jimmy Dore show. But it's concerning to me that people care more about what youtubers and TV hosts say than they do their own Doctors. Maybe you're not this way, but we're living in a world where people have let their political content streams determine what they will do for them before they've bothered talked to professionals. My sister in law who I mentioned earlier is like this - stopped going to her Doctor the minute he told her she should be vaccinated. Her mind had already been made up by social media.

Something else talked about is the fear porn over the virus, and how it is because the pharma companies have a stranglehold over the news companies as well as most politicians, because they want to make more money off the vaccines, since early treatments are cheap and don't make those people rich. Dr. Malone is no more trustworthy than Dr. Fauci. Fauci, who has been wrong about almost everything related to covid (and HIV) still has his job from one administration to the next, and is constantly touted on TV and computer screens by the so-called reputable sources of news, but that's OK.

I don't really know what to say to this, but I understand the concerns. This is the world we live in. We're at the mercy of professionals and industry specialists, who work for private profit. We rely on regulatory bodies like the FDA to keep them from running off the rails, knowing that there will always be corruption and conflicts of interest. I'm somewhat at peace with the idea that this is just the world we live in - if I develop some ailment later in life because the FDA failed to honorably contain capitalism's total apathy toward my long-term health, so be it. The alternative is trusting someone on the fringe with even less basis, or even worse, burying your head in the sand and doing nothing. I'll bet on the big money because it's really the only choice I have.  If something bad happens to me, I take solace in the fact that it's a failure of my nation and our economic system and that I only did what I was supposed to do.

Offline darkshade

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1934 on: September 16, 2021, 08:26:59 AM »
Are there videos out there that show packed hospitals across the US? There weren't any such videos out there in 2020, as far as I know, and last I checked, the pandemic was worse then, what with more deaths. In NYC, where covid was real bad, a makeshift hospital created for hospital overflow wasn't even used for extra covid patients, because it wasn't needed. In other countries, like Brazil, Philippines, for example, people filmed empty hospitals where their news outlets reported they were filled to the brim.

You must be very gullible to things like this https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRQvXF2S/

I'm not clicking that link.

Offline darkshade

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1935 on: September 16, 2021, 08:28:28 AM »
I agree with much of this, of course you should talk to your own doctor about your medical inquiries.
It's the outright dismissal of my post and the content posted because someone did a google search on the doctor, when those people have no medical degrees I am aware of, that is a problem. Search engine companies, news media outlets, and politicians also have no medical degrees. We shouldn't be afraid to share information or medical professional's opinions. No one here or on the youtube link is recommending doing anything without consulting your doctor first.

For what it's worth, I don't think you did anything wrong by sharing the link to the Jimmy Dore show. But it's concerning to me that people care more about what youtubers and TV hosts say than they do their own Doctors. Maybe you're not this way, but we're living in a world where people have let their political content streams determine what they will do for them before they've bothered talked to professionals. My sister in law who I mentioned earlier is like this - stopped going to her Doctor the minute he told her she should be vaccinated. Her mind had already been made up by social media.

Something else talked about is the fear porn over the virus, and how it is because the pharma companies have a stranglehold over the news companies as well as most politicians, because they want to make more money off the vaccines, since early treatments are cheap and don't make those people rich. Dr. Malone is no more trustworthy than Dr. Fauci. Fauci, who has been wrong about almost everything related to covid (and HIV) still has his job from one administration to the next, and is constantly touted on TV and computer screens by the so-called reputable sources of news, but that's OK.

I don't really know what to say to this, but I understand the concerns. This is the world we live in. We're at the mercy of professionals and industry specialists, who work for private profit. We rely on regulatory bodies like the FDA to keep them from running off the rails, knowing that there will always be corruption and conflicts of interest. I'm somewhat at peace with the idea that this is just the world we live in - if I develop some ailment later in life because the FDA failed to honorably contain capitalism's total apathy toward my long-term health, so be it. The alternative is trusting someone on the fringe with even less basis, or even worse, burying your head in the sand and doing nothing. I'll bet on the big money because it's really the only choice I have.  If something bad happens to me, I take solace in the fact that it's a failure of my nation and our economic system and that I only did what I was supposed to do.

I appreciate your response, because it is rational, and not immature.

This doesn't have to be the world we live in. This is the result of decades of apathy throughout the latter half of the 20th century. We can do better, and more people are less apathetic about the system than they were were even 10 years ago, so I'm keeping my glass half full for now. Unfortunately, it may be too late. Too much control over most mechanisms in our society are in the hands of a few select people, with more money than any of us have ever dreamed about having.

Online lonestar

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1936 on: September 16, 2021, 08:37:46 AM »
Are there videos out there that show packed hospitals across the US? There weren't any such videos out there in 2020, as far as I know, and last I checked, the pandemic was worse then, what with more deaths. In NYC, where covid was real bad, a makeshift hospital created for hospital overflow wasn't even used for extra covid patients, because it wasn't needed. In other countries, like Brazil, Philippines, for example, people filmed empty hospitals where their news outlets reported they were filled to the brim.

You must be very gullible to things like this https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRQvXF2S/

I'm not clicking that link.

 :lol

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1937 on: September 16, 2021, 08:48:50 AM »
Are there videos out there that show packed hospitals across the US? There weren't any such videos out there in 2020, as far as I know, and last I checked, the pandemic was worse then, what with more deaths. In NYC, where covid was real bad, a makeshift hospital created for hospital overflow wasn't even used for extra covid patients, because it wasn't needed. In other countries, like Brazil, Philippines, for example, people filmed empty hospitals where their news outlets reported they were filled to the brim.

Absolutely. 

Just yesterday, I was watching a one hour video about the 2021 major league baseball season.  Did you know that no player has had a hit ALL year? Not one!!! Incredible and almost unbelievable, but I saw it with my own two eyes.

<oops...turns out it was a special about all nine of the official no-hitters.  My bad>
...going along with Dragon Attack's Queen thread has been like taking a free class in Queen knowledge. Where else are you gonna find info like that?!

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1938 on: September 16, 2021, 08:56:59 AM »
I agree with much of this, of course you should talk to your own doctor about your medical inquiries.
It's the outright dismissal of my post and the content posted because someone did a google search on the doctor, when those people have no medical degrees I am aware of, that is a problem. Search engine companies, news media outlets, and politicians also have no medical degrees. We shouldn't be afraid to share information or medical professional's opinions. No one here or on the youtube link is recommending doing anything without consulting your doctor first.

For what it's worth, I don't think you did anything wrong by sharing the link to the Jimmy Dore show. But it's concerning to me that people care more about what youtubers and TV hosts say than they do their own Doctors. Maybe you're not this way, but we're living in a world where people have let their political content streams determine what they will do for them before they've bothered talked to professionals. My sister in law who I mentioned earlier is like this - stopped going to her Doctor the minute he told her she should be vaccinated. Her mind had already been made up by social media.

Something else talked about is the fear porn over the virus, and how it is because the pharma companies have a stranglehold over the news companies as well as most politicians, because they want to make more money off the vaccines, since early treatments are cheap and don't make those people rich. Dr. Malone is no more trustworthy than Dr. Fauci. Fauci, who has been wrong about almost everything related to covid (and HIV) still has his job from one administration to the next, and is constantly touted on TV and computer screens by the so-called reputable sources of news, but that's OK.

I don't really know what to say to this, but I understand the concerns. This is the world we live in. We're at the mercy of professionals and industry specialists, who work for private profit. We rely on regulatory bodies like the FDA to keep them from running off the rails, knowing that there will always be corruption and conflicts of interest. I'm somewhat at peace with the idea that this is just the world we live in - if I develop some ailment later in life because the FDA failed to honorably contain capitalism's total apathy toward my long-term health, so be it. The alternative is trusting someone on the fringe with even less basis, or even worse, burying your head in the sand and doing nothing. I'll bet on the big money because it's really the only choice I have.  If something bad happens to me, I take solace in the fact that it's a failure of my nation and our economic system and that I only did what I was supposed to do.

I appreciate your response, because it is rational, and not immature.

This doesn't have to be the world we live in. This is the result of decades of apathy throughout the latter half of the 20th century. We can do better, and more people are less apathetic about the system than they were were even 10 years ago, so I'm keeping my glass half full for now. Unfortunately, it may be too late. Too much control over most mechanisms in our society are in the hands of a few select people, with more money than any of us have ever dreamed about having.

Don't forget the comforts of life that we all have now such as food being delivered to your door at the touch of a button, being able to go to another part of the world, being able to easily go out and get food, the luxuries of being able to spend your time playing video games on a screen yelling at the other player across the pond.

You think people could easily give up these comforts? I feel we got our answer with Covid...

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Offline darkshade

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1939 on: September 16, 2021, 08:58:32 AM »
Are there videos out there that show packed hospitals across the US? There weren't any such videos out there in 2020, as far as I know, and last I checked, the pandemic was worse then, what with more deaths. In NYC, where covid was real bad, a makeshift hospital created for hospital overflow wasn't even used for extra covid patients, because it wasn't needed. In other countries, like Brazil, Philippines, for example, people filmed empty hospitals where their news outlets reported they were filled to the brim.

You must be very gullible to things like this https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRQvXF2S/

I'm not clicking that link.

 :lol

Give me a non-TikTok link. Glad you are amused.

Offline darkshade

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1940 on: September 16, 2021, 09:00:30 AM »
You think people could easily give up these comforts? I feel we got our answer with Covid...

Easily? No. Most people are still apathetic to their world, most know next to nothing about what is going on in their neighborhood, let alone in another state or another country, surely not about infectious diseases and pharmaceutical companies tied to media outlets and political parties. Like you said, they'll gladly keep eating fast food delivered to their house while they play video games and collect welfare money.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1941 on: September 16, 2021, 09:11:48 AM »
Are there videos out there that show packed hospitals across the US? There weren't any such videos out there in 2020, as far as I know, and last I checked, the pandemic was worse then, what with more deaths. In NYC, where covid was real bad, a makeshift hospital created for hospital overflow wasn't even used for extra covid patients, because it wasn't needed. In other countries, like Brazil, Philippines, for example, people filmed empty hospitals where their news outlets reported they were filled to the brim.

You must be very gullible to things like this https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRQvXF2S/

I'm not clicking that link.

 :lol

Give me a non-TikTok link. Glad you are amused.

What's the issue wtih tiktok? You dont need an account to view the video

Online lonestar

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1942 on: September 16, 2021, 09:12:38 AM »
Doesn't want the Chinese to steal his info.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1943 on: September 16, 2021, 09:31:54 AM »
I agree with much of this, of course you should talk to your own doctor about your medical inquiries.
It's the outright dismissal of my post and the content posted because someone did a google search on the doctor, when those people have no medical degrees I am aware of, that is a problem. Search engine companies, news media outlets, and politicians also have no medical degrees. We shouldn't be afraid to share information or medical professional's opinions. No one here or on the youtube link is recommending doing anything without consulting your doctor first.

For what it's worth, I don't think you did anything wrong by sharing the link to the Jimmy Dore show. But it's concerning to me that people care more about what youtubers and TV hosts say than they do their own Doctors. Maybe you're not this way, but we're living in a world where people have let their political content streams determine what they will do for them before they've bothered talked to professionals. My sister in law who I mentioned earlier is like this - stopped going to her Doctor the minute he told her she should be vaccinated. Her mind had already been made up by social media.

Something else talked about is the fear porn over the virus, and how it is because the pharma companies have a stranglehold over the news companies as well as most politicians, because they want to make more money off the vaccines, since early treatments are cheap and don't make those people rich. Dr. Malone is no more trustworthy than Dr. Fauci. Fauci, who has been wrong about almost everything related to covid (and HIV) still has his job from one administration to the next, and is constantly touted on TV and computer screens by the so-called reputable sources of news, but that's OK.

I don't really know what to say to this, but I understand the concerns. This is the world we live in. We're at the mercy of professionals and industry specialists, who work for private profit. We rely on regulatory bodies like the FDA to keep them from running off the rails, knowing that there will always be corruption and conflicts of interest. I'm somewhat at peace with the idea that this is just the world we live in - if I develop some ailment later in life because the FDA failed to honorably contain capitalism's total apathy toward my long-term health, so be it. The alternative is trusting someone on the fringe with even less basis, or even worse, burying your head in the sand and doing nothing. I'll bet on the big money because it's really the only choice I have.  If something bad happens to me, I take solace in the fact that it's a failure of my nation and our economic system and that I only did what I was supposed to do.

I appreciate your response, because it is rational, and not immature.

This doesn't have to be the world we live in. This is the result of decades of apathy throughout the latter half of the 20th century. We can do better, and more people are less apathetic about the system than they were were even 10 years ago, so I'm keeping my glass half full for now. Unfortunately, it may be too late. Too much control over most mechanisms in our society are in the hands of a few select people, with more money than any of us have ever dreamed about having.
So I have to ask, and I'm asking this honestly and respectfully, who's behind it all? See, if it were just us 'Mericans I might see your point. What we seem to be seeing is a completely global phenomenon. The freedom you see us sacrificing is minor compared to other countries, and massive compared to still others. Are the Japanese being conned? The Russians? The Swiss? The Somali? Are Dr. Stravinski, Dr. Chang, and Dr. Umfufu equally misinformed, or misleading? What about the other vaccines, both American and foreign? Is the Sputnik vaccine just as dubious? What about the Indian vaccine? And for that matter, what about Johnson and Johnson (Belgian, I believe), which is a completely different mechanism?

That's what's intriguing to me. What some like yourself suggest is that we're seeing the greatest global effort ever put together for a single, unified cause. That would be truly remarkable, yet I think we're really all just winging it the best we can. As is usually the case, confusion, dysfunction, ineptitude, and the like are far more likely causes than ill-intent.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1944 on: September 16, 2021, 09:33:13 AM »
Are there videos out there that show packed hospitals across the US? There weren't any such videos out there in 2020, as far as I know, and last I checked, the pandemic was worse then, what with more deaths. In NYC, where covid was real bad, a makeshift hospital created for hospital overflow wasn't even used for extra covid patients, because it wasn't needed. In other countries, like Brazil, Philippines, for example, people filmed empty hospitals where their news outlets reported they were filled to the brim.

You must be very gullible to things like this https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRQvXF2S/

I'm not clicking that link.

 :lol

Give me a non-TikTok link. Glad you are amused.

What's the issue wtih tiktok? You dont need an account to view the video

Everything. It's a part of the problem of Social Media. Talk about Gullibility, let's discuss those Milk Crate Challenge people that just had to follow the herd. And if they get hurt, they're shit out of luck as the Covid patients take precedent. And I just laugh and go on my merry way.

People actually are using Tik-Tok as a platform for their opinions and perspectives, in hopes that people will listen and glorify their points and perspectives.

That's the issue I see with regards to Tik-Tok..

Interestingly, there's a guy in my class who is doing a social commentary on Tik-Tok so I look forward to his thoughts on it. And my instructor who is a couple years older than me doesn't understand the popularity of Tik-Tok, which I found funny and also interesting that it's not just me, and that it may be a product that became popular with the age group that is like 5 years younger than me.

The only Social Media I have are Facebook and Twitter. I do have others but rarely if at all go there. I'm of the generation that feels Myspace was the best social media platform ever invented and it all went to shit when Facebook became popular and Myspace bécame MyFace. :lol

« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 09:55:31 AM by Ben_Jamin »
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Online TAC

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1945 on: September 16, 2021, 09:34:27 AM »
DTF is my social media.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Online Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1946 on: September 16, 2021, 09:34:55 AM »
Ben-Jamin's thinking is of course certifiably fallacious.
Vaccines only work the way they're supposed to when most of the population is inoculated.
BTW, the willfully unvaccinated are currently the ones who will be responsible for cooking up the next several variants. And that will be ALL of our problem.

That's a world problem, not a U.S. problem, though, in the sense that the globe is <50% vaccinated.  If half the U.S. population that hasn't received two shots gets vaccinated, that's roughly 150* million people.  That would make the global vaccination rate...  <50%. 

I'm not suggesting that we not do it, that's not how it works.  But I am suggesting there's an inordinate weight being placed on those that aren't doing what WE want them to locally, and not enough focus on the fact that the PLANET isn't anywhere CLOSE to achieving the benefits of the vaccine even with them.  We've also not approved the use for children under 12 yet; that's another 50 million people that CAN'T move the needle, as opposed to WON'T.  Even if EVERY vaccine-hesitant person got vaccinated, we're still arguably not at herd immunity (that would put us just south of 85% by my math). 

Does it matter where the variant comes from?  Delta was not a U.S.-origin variant if memory serves.

My state is at 75% roughly.  Our positivity ping-pongs between about 2.5% to about 4%. 


* 30 million have received ONE shot just haven't received the second dose.

I have a hard time believing it should be as hard to keep it outside customs but the political tolerance might be similar to that of inoculating the workforce. I was just having coffee with a friend from Asia a few days ago and when I asked her why she came to America when we’re currently on fire with the delta she simply responded “you guys are the only ones crazy enough to let me in”.

I'm not sure I 100% get your point, so don't jump on me if it seems I'm not getting it, but as a general point, given the immigration problem, given the "sanctuary city" and "sanctuary state" phenomena, keeping COVID out of the country through borders is like keeping notes out of an Yngwie Malmsteen song.   It seems to me, the only place it's hard to get in and out of is CANADA (where's my LUMBER and sheetrock guys!!!!)

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1947 on: September 16, 2021, 09:37:10 AM »
I agree with much of this, of course you should talk to your own doctor about your medical inquiries.
It's the outright dismissal of my post and the content posted because someone did a google search on the doctor, when those people have no medical degrees I am aware of, that is a problem. Search engine companies, news media outlets, and politicians also have no medical degrees. We shouldn't be afraid to share information or medical professional's opinions. No one here or on the youtube link is recommending doing anything without consulting your doctor first.

For what it's worth, I don't think you did anything wrong by sharing the link to the Jimmy Dore show. But it's concerning to me that people care more about what youtubers and TV hosts say than they do their own Doctors. Maybe you're not this way, but we're living in a world where people have let their political content streams determine what they will do for them before they've bothered talked to professionals. My sister in law who I mentioned earlier is like this - stopped going to her Doctor the minute he told her she should be vaccinated. Her mind had already been made up by social media.

Something else talked about is the fear porn over the virus, and how it is because the pharma companies have a stranglehold over the news companies as well as most politicians, because they want to make more money off the vaccines, since early treatments are cheap and don't make those people rich. Dr. Malone is no more trustworthy than Dr. Fauci. Fauci, who has been wrong about almost everything related to covid (and HIV) still has his job from one administration to the next, and is constantly touted on TV and computer screens by the so-called reputable sources of news, but that's OK.

I don't really know what to say to this, but I understand the concerns. This is the world we live in. We're at the mercy of professionals and industry specialists, who work for private profit. We rely on regulatory bodies like the FDA to keep them from running off the rails, knowing that there will always be corruption and conflicts of interest. I'm somewhat at peace with the idea that this is just the world we live in - if I develop some ailment later in life because the FDA failed to honorably contain capitalism's total apathy toward my long-term health, so be it. The alternative is trusting someone on the fringe with even less basis, or even worse, burying your head in the sand and doing nothing. I'll bet on the big money because it's really the only choice I have.  If something bad happens to me, I take solace in the fact that it's a failure of my nation and our economic system and that I only did what I was supposed to do.

I appreciate your response, because it is rational, and not immature.

This doesn't have to be the world we live in. This is the result of decades of apathy throughout the latter half of the 20th century. We can do better, and more people are less apathetic about the system than they were were even 10 years ago, so I'm keeping my glass half full for now. Unfortunately, it may be too late. Too much control over most mechanisms in our society are in the hands of a few select people, with more money than any of us have ever dreamed about having.
So I have to ask, and I'm asking this honestly and respectfully, who's behind it all? See, if it were just us 'Mericans I might see your point. What we seem to be seeing is a completely global phenomenon. The freedom you see us sacrificing is minor compared to other countries, and massive compared to still others. Are the Japanese being conned? The Russians? The Swiss? The Somali? Are Dr. Stravinski, Dr. Chang, and Dr. Umfufu equally misinformed, or misleading? What about the other vaccines, both American and foreign? Is the Sputnik vaccine just as dubious? What about the Indian vaccine? And for that matter, what about Johnson and Johnson (Belgian, I believe), which is a completely different mechanism?

That's what's intriguing to me. What some like yourself suggest is that we're seeing the greatest global effort ever put together for a single, unified cause. That would be truly remarkable, yet I think we're really all just winging it the best we can. As is usually the case, confusion, dysfunction, ineptitude, and the like are far more likely causes than ill-intent.

It's funny to read someone talking about corruption just in one country when there is a bigger picture with all countries.  As if the wool could be pulled over the world's eye. 
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1948 on: September 16, 2021, 09:38:05 AM »
You think people could easily give up these comforts? I feel we got our answer with Covid...

Easily? No. Most people are still apathetic to their world, most know next to nothing about what is going on in their neighborhood.

I love it when one person speaks for most people.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1949 on: September 16, 2021, 09:47:28 AM »
I agree with much of this, of course you should talk to your own doctor about your medical inquiries.
It's the outright dismissal of my post and the content posted because someone did a google search on the doctor, when those people have no medical degrees I am aware of, that is a problem. Search engine companies, news media outlets, and politicians also have no medical degrees. We shouldn't be afraid to share information or medical professional's opinions. No one here or on the youtube link is recommending doing anything without consulting your doctor first.

For what it's worth, I don't think you did anything wrong by sharing the link to the Jimmy Dore show. But it's concerning to me that people care more about what youtubers and TV hosts say than they do their own Doctors. Maybe you're not this way, but we're living in a world where people have let their political content streams determine what they will do for them before they've bothered talked to professionals. My sister in law who I mentioned earlier is like this - stopped going to her Doctor the minute he told her she should be vaccinated. Her mind had already been made up by social media.

Something else talked about is the fear porn over the virus, and how it is because the pharma companies have a stranglehold over the news companies as well as most politicians, because they want to make more money off the vaccines, since early treatments are cheap and don't make those people rich. Dr. Malone is no more trustworthy than Dr. Fauci. Fauci, who has been wrong about almost everything related to covid (and HIV) still has his job from one administration to the next, and is constantly touted on TV and computer screens by the so-called reputable sources of news, but that's OK.

I don't really know what to say to this, but I understand the concerns. This is the world we live in. We're at the mercy of professionals and industry specialists, who work for private profit. We rely on regulatory bodies like the FDA to keep them from running off the rails, knowing that there will always be corruption and conflicts of interest. I'm somewhat at peace with the idea that this is just the world we live in - if I develop some ailment later in life because the FDA failed to honorably contain capitalism's total apathy toward my long-term health, so be it. The alternative is trusting someone on the fringe with even less basis, or even worse, burying your head in the sand and doing nothing. I'll bet on the big money because it's really the only choice I have.  If something bad happens to me, I take solace in the fact that it's a failure of my nation and our economic system and that I only did what I was supposed to do.

I appreciate your response, because it is rational, and not immature.

This doesn't have to be the world we live in. This is the result of decades of apathy throughout the latter half of the 20th century. We can do better, and more people are less apathetic about the system than they were were even 10 years ago, so I'm keeping my glass half full for now. Unfortunately, it may be too late. Too much control over most mechanisms in our society are in the hands of a few select people, with more money than any of us have ever dreamed about having.
So I have to ask, and I'm asking this honestly and respectfully, who's behind it all? See, if it were just us 'Mericans I might see your point. What we seem to be seeing is a completely global phenomenon. The freedom you see us sacrificing is minor compared to other countries, and massive compared to still others. Are the Japanese being conned? The Russians? The Swiss? The Somali? Are Dr. Stravinski, Dr. Chang, and Dr. Umfufu equally misinformed, or misleading? What about the other vaccines, both American and foreign? Is the Sputnik vaccine just as dubious? What about the Indian vaccine? And for that matter, what about Johnson and Johnson (Belgian, I believe), which is a completely different mechanism?

That's what's intriguing to me. What some like yourself suggest is that we're seeing the greatest global effort ever put together for a single, unified cause. That would be truly remarkable, yet I think we're really all just winging it the best we can. As is usually the case, confusion, dysfunction, ineptitude, and the like are far more likely causes than ill-intent.


Globalization began with conquering the world. These were the ones who wanted the world to be dominated and rules under their laws and customs. And yes, lots of Indigenous Peoples of the world were coerced and forced into submission by way of assimilation. Forced into making the plants, the customs, the traditions and livelihoods of the people become part of the factory to become a product to be distributed to the world.

These conquerors used slave labor as their people that lived in another country benefited from the labor while those in the farmland suffered greatly. They did not see any of the fruits of their labors, if they did, it was the rotten, useless, fruits.

This led to depletion of land and soil, this led to people having to migrate to a new place and adapt to their new environment.

The problem with Equalization and equality is that it can't be assumed that everyone is made the same. That is just false. People are made differently and if we accept this fact, how can we make life Equal for all. To be Equal, everyone has to be the same. Same mindset, same thoughts, same rules, same order, all under One...I honestly believe we can not have true equality in the sense that everyone is made the same.

What we can have is Unity. Unity is respect, compassion, and understanding of the other while allowing them to be who they are. This allows humans to be different, yet as one united under the respect, compassion, and understanding each has for one another. I consider that true love and understanding for the other.

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1950 on: September 16, 2021, 09:49:00 AM »
You think people could easily give up these comforts? I feel we got our answer with Covid...

Easily? No. Most people are still apathetic to their world, most know next to nothing about what is going on in their neighborhood.

I love it when one person speaks for most people.

Like when people assume unvaccinated people are anti-vax or republicans or Trump Supporters. They assume that person who is vocal is speaking for all the unvaccinated and that all the unvaccinated think like that vocal person.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1951 on: September 16, 2021, 10:06:10 AM »
You think people could easily give up these comforts? I feel we got our answer with Covid...

Easily? No. Most people are still apathetic to their world, most know next to nothing about what is going on in their neighborhood.

I love it when one person speaks for most people.

Like when people assume unvaccinated people are anti-vax or republicans or Trump Supporters. They assume that person who is vocal is speaking for all the unvaccinated and that all the unvaccinated think like that vocal person.

Not saying correlation is causation but...




It should be noted for those unfamiliar with CA geography, the low covid areas are where the high population density of the state is, a very, very blue state. These are also the areas where vaccine rates are highest and where mask mandates are followed for the most part. Also...CA is on pace to be the first state to be on the downside of the Delta surge because of our handling of it. I know that means dick to those who think the pandemic is a fallacy and a scam but it is what it is.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 10:27:01 AM by lonestar »

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1952 on: September 16, 2021, 10:15:06 AM »
Actually, my first mistake was reading and responding to a post of Darkshade's.

Searched him on Duck Duck Go, first page there syas he's full of shit too.

Yeah, that's exactly where I pulled that quote from.  Joke's on you Darkshade, I don't trust the Google either ... just used it as a ubiquitous verb.

It's the outright dismissal of my post and the content posted because someone did a google search on the doctor, when those people have no medical degrees I am aware of, that is a problem. Search engine companies, news media outlets, and politicians also have no medical degrees either

Do YOU have a medical degree?  By your own logic, I shouldn't pay attention to the information you're spreading.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1953 on: September 16, 2021, 10:38:57 AM »
I agree with much of this, of course you should talk to your own doctor about your medical inquiries.
It's the outright dismissal of my post and the content posted because someone did a google search on the doctor, when those people have no medical degrees I am aware of, that is a problem. Search engine companies, news media outlets, and politicians also have no medical degrees. We shouldn't be afraid to share information or medical professional's opinions. No one here or on the youtube link is recommending doing anything without consulting your doctor first.

For what it's worth, I don't think you did anything wrong by sharing the link to the Jimmy Dore show. But it's concerning to me that people care more about what youtubers and TV hosts say than they do their own Doctors. Maybe you're not this way, but we're living in a world where people have let their political content streams determine what they will do for them before they've bothered talked to professionals. My sister in law who I mentioned earlier is like this - stopped going to her Doctor the minute he told her she should be vaccinated. Her mind had already been made up by social media.

Something else talked about is the fear porn over the virus, and how it is because the pharma companies have a stranglehold over the news companies as well as most politicians, because they want to make more money off the vaccines, since early treatments are cheap and don't make those people rich. Dr. Malone is no more trustworthy than Dr. Fauci. Fauci, who has been wrong about almost everything related to covid (and HIV) still has his job from one administration to the next, and is constantly touted on TV and computer screens by the so-called reputable sources of news, but that's OK.

I don't really know what to say to this, but I understand the concerns. This is the world we live in. We're at the mercy of professionals and industry specialists, who work for private profit. We rely on regulatory bodies like the FDA to keep them from running off the rails, knowing that there will always be corruption and conflicts of interest. I'm somewhat at peace with the idea that this is just the world we live in - if I develop some ailment later in life because the FDA failed to honorably contain capitalism's total apathy toward my long-term health, so be it. The alternative is trusting someone on the fringe with even less basis, or even worse, burying your head in the sand and doing nothing. I'll bet on the big money because it's really the only choice I have.  If something bad happens to me, I take solace in the fact that it's a failure of my nation and our economic system and that I only did what I was supposed to do.

Skeever, kudos to you.  You don't have to agree with Darkshade, and it doesn't sound like you do, but as someone who has written about the divisiveness that is paralyzing our country, the fact that you respond - in that disagreement - with decorum, moderation and civility, impresses the hell out of me.  And I for one, appreciate that gesture.

I'm being 100% sincere here, no sarcasm, no snark.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1954 on: September 16, 2021, 10:41:18 AM »
DTF is my social media.

WHERE'S THE DAMN LIKE BUTTON?!?!?

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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1955 on: September 16, 2021, 10:43:14 AM »
Oh...so that's god's last name.  Damn...
"Two things are infinite; the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -Albert Einstein
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1956 on: September 16, 2021, 10:44:37 AM »
You think people could easily give up these comforts? I feel we got our answer with Covid...

Easily? No. Most people are still apathetic to their world, most know next to nothing about what is going on in their neighborhood.

I love it when one person speaks for most people.

Like when people assume unvaccinated people are anti-vax or republicans or Trump Supporters. They assume that person who is vocal is speaking for all the unvaccinated and that all the unvaccinated think like that vocal person.

Not saying correlation is causation but...




It should be noted for those unfamiliar with CA geography, the low covid areas are where the high population density of the state is, a very, very blue state. These are also the areas where vaccine rates are highest and where mask mandates are followed for the most part. Also...CA is on pace to be the first state to be on the downside of the Delta surge because of our handling of it. I know that means dick to those who think the pandemic is a fallacy and a scam but it is what it is.

But the association with a political vote is at best misleading.  I'm a very blue state as well, and not only are the causations not here, neither is the correlation.  I know, I know, there's that one article out there, and it will persevere for those that need to see that vindication (not saying you, personally).   But that doesn't make it any more right or any more effective in changing minds.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1957 on: September 16, 2021, 10:59:52 AM »
You think people could easily give up these comforts? I feel we got our answer with Covid...

Easily? No. Most people are still apathetic to their world, most know next to nothing about what is going on in their neighborhood.

I love it when one person speaks for most people.

Like when people assume unvaccinated people are anti-vax or republicans or Trump Supporters. They assume that person who is vocal is speaking for all the unvaccinated and that all the unvaccinated think like that vocal person.

Not saying correlation is causation but...




It should be noted for those unfamiliar with CA geography, the low covid areas are where the high population density of the state is, a very, very blue state. These are also the areas where vaccine rates are highest and where mask mandates are followed for the most part. Also...CA is on pace to be the first state to be on the downside of the Delta surge because of our handling of it. I know that means dick to those who think the pandemic is a fallacy and a scam but it is what it is.

But the association with a political vote is at best misleading.  I'm a very blue state as well, and not only are the causations not here, neither is the correlation.  I know, I know, there's that one article out there, and it will persevere for those that need to see that vindication (not saying you, personally).   But that doesn't make it any more right or any more effective in changing minds.

I posted it mostly for the timeliness of it, came across it literally 2 minutes before reading the above post. Sometimes I just can't resist myself.... ::)

Offline El Barto

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1958 on: September 16, 2021, 12:29:01 PM »
You think people could easily give up these comforts? I feel we got our answer with Covid...

Easily? No. Most people are still apathetic to their world, most know next to nothing about what is going on in their neighborhood.

I love it when one person speaks for most people.

Like when people assume unvaccinated people are anti-vax or republicans or Trump Supporters. They assume that person who is vocal is speaking for all the unvaccinated and that all the unvaccinated think like that vocal person.

Not saying correlation is causation but...




It should be noted for those unfamiliar with CA geography, the low covid areas are where the high population density of the state is, a very, very blue state. These are also the areas where vaccine rates are highest and where mask mandates are followed for the most part. Also...CA is on pace to be the first state to be on the downside of the Delta surge because of our handling of it. I know that means dick to those who think the pandemic is a fallacy and a scam but it is what it is.

But the association with a political vote is at best misleading.  I'm a very blue state as well, and not only are the causations not here, neither is the correlation.  I know, I know, there's that one article out there, and it will persevere for those that need to see that vindication (not saying you, personally).   But that doesn't make it any more right or any more effective in changing minds.
I don't think you can deny the trends, buddy. Of course there's no direct link between antivaxxers and political party, but there's clearly a tremendous amount of overlap.

That chart also tells another story. The covid hotspots are not only outside of the more liberal parts of the state, they're also clear of the most densely populated areas (which also have an indirect relationship to political ideology). Los Angeles County has one third as many cases per capita as Tahema Country, despite having nearly 100x the population density. Not really relevant to the point, aside from another somewhat vague link between party and best practices, but quite interesting, I think. LA is actually doing better than I'd have suspected.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #1959 on: September 16, 2021, 12:47:03 PM »
^^ Oh yeah.  The two indoor shows I've been to in the LA country area (the Forum and Microsoft Theater).  They were pretty adamant that to get in, you need to wear a mask and provide proof of vaccine.  Thankfully, I was able to do both.  If anyone does not want to do that to go to shows, tough luck, I don't care about those guys.