Coronavirus Thread v.2

[Ben_Jamin]

That lack of trust is a key sign to how fucking spoiled we are, that we can blindly question people who make it their life's work to understand these things without a shred of credible fucking evidence, and then propagate it like weeds across the internet through every idiot's token social media platform. It's what has devastated any sense of social responsibility across the board.


It's easy to point a finger at 'the man' and act all fucking righteous about it, and it makes you think you're on the side of truth and justice and whatever other bullshit lies you tell yourself to feel better about it, but in the end it's just killing people.

That's not how a Democracy was meant to work though. There should have been no "career politicians". Anyone has that right to run for president. And I have no idea where having to fundraise money and accept businesses interest donations, and all that came into the game.

My issue with the Big Pharmaceuticals and Science experts, are how they have not researched or actually studied certain aspects of plants, and the healing properties. Especially cannabis. They withhold data and information by not researching or studying these things because so and so dictates it's not worth the time and money to study and research.

People blindly accept any data as factual, and that is based on Trust. You trust that the person doing the research, doing the study, is honest, and has an intent on helping humanity. One should not let his Ego get in the way of studies and research. Also, even if that scientist does discover something that is life-changing...Will the supposed Academic Experts agree or call him a quack and loon...Like they have done to many, many, many discoveries before.

And yes, I agree, Americans are spoiled, always want more, and are never satisfied with what they got, and they just have to have the latest fashion trend and brand new car. 



Edit: Adding this about "Voluntary Servitude"

https://youtu.be/PBsA7S8jxfU

[lonestar]

Trust me, if there was profit to be made from plants, Big Pharma would find it. They're more than ready to squeeze every fucking nickel out of this planet. But they also have to have a viable product, which at most times they do.

There is no logical explanation on why someone shouldn't take the vaccine if they aren't medically incapable of it. None. Zip. Zero. The evidence after a  couple billion vaccines administered is way too overwhelming. It is our way out, to deny that fact is just stupid.

[emtee]

It's going to be an interesting couple months. Between lawsuits and mass resignations, we will be in for a bumpy ride. Just read a piece about a hospital in New York where they will have to temporarily shut down labor and delivery because most of the nurses quit.

[Ben_Jamin]

Trust me, if there was profit to be made from plants, Big Pharma would find it. They're more than ready to squeeze every fucking nickel out of this planet. But they also have to have a viable product, which at most times they do.

There is no logical explanation on why someone shouldn't take the vaccine if they aren't medically incapable of it. None. Zip. Zero. The evidence after a  couple billion vaccines administered is way too overwhelming. It is our way out, to deny that fact is just stupid.

They already found the profits in the pharmaceuticals, the pills and serums they manufacture from these plants. This is the foundation for them being called "Big Pharma", there would be no "Big Pharma" if they did not already find their profit maker.

But the issue isn't that....It's the rollout, the distribution, the mandating, for what they dictate is considered a "Public Health" threat. And some people actually do not see it as a big threat as most people do. This is related to demographics of the population. The more populated a city is, the less area there is for the population to live on, the more health issues and other "Public Health" issues will arise. This is because there is over-population and the city needs to expand, but then there is no more land to expand upon. So what did humans do...They built up, and made ways around having to expand.

Now, Travel is another area that does impact how a virus spreads. Why are people taking the vaccine? So they can travel and can go do things. But was that supposed "Normal" really worth it. As it stands, it was never the utopia or the greatest thing on Earth. It was in need of a reset to build back better, to make America great again.

Klaus Schwab did write a book titled "The Great Reset", that is a fact. I bought it on Amazon Kindle. That alone should make one wonder, why would someone write that book, and he is the head man of the "World Economic Forum"

It's going to be an interesting couple months. Between lawsuits and mass resignations, we will be in for a bumpy ride. Just read a piece about a hospital in New York where they will have to temporarily shut down labor and delivery because most of the nurses quit.

Yes it is. And this is the consequence that people knew was going to occur with that decision to mandate the vaccines. Which is why people did not want the mandate because the long term consequences may possibly be worse than the disease itself.



And while we're at it...Let's consider the topic of the term "Choices"

https://youtu.be/GB0aaVB2oEI

Host Harry Kreisler welcomes writer Michael Pollan for a discussion of the agricultural industrial complex that dominates consumer choices about what to eat. He explores the origins, evolution and consequences of this system for the nations health and environment. He highlights the role of science, journalism, and politics in the development of a diet that emphasizes nutrition over food.  Pollan also sketches a reform agenda and speculates on how a movement might change Americas eating habits.  He also talks about science writing, the rewards of gardening, and how students might prepare for the future. Series: Conversations with History [2/2009] [Public Affairs] [Agriculture] [Show ID: 15882]

We can have choices, but what happens when the choices themselves are not great as they are. What happens when these choices are manipulated on how the person comes to a decision they want them to make, and coerce them to make that decision?

[jingle.boy]

It's going to be an interesting couple months. Between lawsuits and mass resignations, we will be in for a bumpy ride. Just read a piece about a hospital in New York where they will have to temporarily shut down labor and delivery because most of the nurses quit.

So where they gonna work?

[Harmony]

we don't (necessarily) force people to change their body chemistry all the time.   Hey, since we're at it, maybe we should make people eat the proper ratio of carbs/protein/fats?   Maybe we should force people to take anti-depressants.   Sterilization is a fantastic idea; don't want those deplorables to be breeding now, do we?   I'm kidding, but see there ARE differences in this, and minimizing those differences does nothing to change minds.  It just reinforces the anti-vaxxer's feelings of not being heard. 

I think I get what you are saying here but one small point of order.  "Force people to change their body chemistry" is kind of a misnomer.  I say this because everything we are exposed to changes our body chemistry.  Drive in traffic? You are breathing in car exhaust that changes our body chemistry.  Use pesticides (organic or synthetic) on crops we then ingest and these can disrupt our body chemistry.  Give antibiotics to cows that go into steaks?  Microwave or heat up certain plastics?  Hell, even use scare tactics in advertising and you guessed it - our body chemistry is changed.

If we are going to run with this analogy, you could make the case that for some people, the fear of being vaccinated changes body chemistry and for some other people the fear of those around them NOT being vaccinated changes body chemistry.  Right?  I mean, there is a plethora of science devoted to cortisol release in humans that show evidence of being causative for chronic illnesses, like heart disease.

Maybe it is semantics, but I think we need to be careful with this language here.  We are "forced" to change our body chemistry all the time.  Most of us just don't spend a lot of time thinking about it like that.  And maybe these ways of thinking (not directed at you here) are part of the problem with people not understanding how science - specifically the science around vaccines - work.

[emtee]

It's going to be an interesting couple months. Between lawsuits and mass resignations, we will be in for a bumpy ride. Just read a piece about a hospital in New York where they will have to temporarily shut down labor and delivery because most of the nurses quit.

So where they gonna work?

Good question. Seems like they don't care. Eventually the need to pay the bills and eat will cause some recalculation of their position(s). Maybe.

The flip side is that so many people quit, sectors of the economy grind to a halt. Not likely but possible. The moms who were going to have their babies at that hospital now need a plan B. At the macro level, across many industries, it could get dicey. A game of vaccine mandate chicken.

[Ben_Jamin]

we don't (necessarily) force people to change their body chemistry all the time.   Hey, since we're at it, maybe we should make people eat the proper ratio of carbs/protein/fats?   Maybe we should force people to take anti-depressants.   Sterilization is a fantastic idea; don't want those deplorables to be breeding now, do we?   I'm kidding, but see there ARE differences in this, and minimizing those differences does nothing to change minds.  It just reinforces the anti-vaxxer's feelings of not being heard. 

I think I get what you are saying here but one small point of order.  "Force people to change their body chemistry" is kind of a misnomer.  I say this because everything we are exposed to changes our body chemistry.  Drive in traffic? You are breathing in car exhaust that changes our body chemistry.  Use pesticides (organic or synthetic) on crops we then ingest and these can disrupt our body chemistry.  Give antibiotics to cows that go into steaks?  Microwave or heat up certain plastics?  Hell, even use scare tactics in advertising and you guessed it - our body chemistry is changed.

If we are going to run with this analogy, you could make the case that for some people, the fear of being vaccinated changes body chemistry and for some other people the fear of those around them NOT being vaccinated changes body chemistry.  Right?  I mean, there is a plethora of science devoted to cortisol release in humans that show evidence of being causative for chronic illnesses, like heart disease.

Maybe it is semantics, but I think we need to be careful with this language here.  We are "forced" to change our body chemistry all the time.  Most of us just don't spend a lot of time thinking about it like that.  And maybe these ways of thinking (not directed at you here) are part of the problem with people not understanding how science - specifically the science around vaccines - work.

Watch that last video I posted. It explains the consequences of having all these body chemistry changing things in our foods. Which are a lot of the underlying conditions that are causing people to become susceptible to Covid-19.

Back then, they didn't care about long term consequences, they cared about the right now. And this led to the neglect of the future generations that are living the consequences which is causing our bodies to have these health issues.

It also explains how Science also tends to work politucally as those food scientists allowed these chemicals and other things to go into the soil.

[Cool Chris]

It's going to be an interesting couple months. Between lawsuits and mass resignations, we will be in for a bumpy ride. Just read a piece about a hospital in New York where they will have to temporarily shut down labor and delivery because most of the nurses quit.

So where they gonna work?

There will be people who just leave the workforce to retire, or live off one income if they are married and their spouse works. My wife's school had at least 5 people retire last year who would have worked longer, but just didn't want to put up with remote learning/teaching during Covid. And this was before vaccine mandates. No way to know the % of the population this would apply to. If it means that much to them, they can seek out working for smaller employers to whom the mandate doesn't apply, or drive for Uber or do other gig work.

[Stadler]

Can someone please answer this?

We live in a society of mandates. We have to have a drivers license, marriage license and in the State I live in, newborn children are subject to a battery of tests to ensure they are healthy and yet, we don't bat an eye with this but when you talk about a vaccine that has proven to save lives, all people want to talk about is "Merican freedom".

How effed up is that?

There are two questions in that post:  Yes, I can answer this.  Zero.  It is zero effed up.   And I've already explained why numerous times.  I don't change my body chemistry to get a driver's license. Nor am I FORCED to get a driver's license if I don't want one.  I can still go see Steel Panther on Saturday if I have a driver's license or not.   I don't change my body chemistry to get a marriage license. Nor am I FORCED to marry if I don't want to. I can still go to see Steel Panther on Saturday if I am married or not.   There are no LAWS I know of that FORCE the battery of tests (yes, some students have to get a physical, but it's not a MANDATE since you can opt to home school if you don't want to go through the examination).   And I would not assume that no one "bat's an eye"; that they exist doesn't mean that everyone necessarily agrees with them.

For me, its not about the certification or the licensure; if I get the vaccine of my own accord, I have no problem at all with measures that force me to declare that, or present proof.  That's a driver's license.   That's a marriage license.  Where my objection starts is any point after which it's not my decision and my decision alone as to whether that needle goes in my arm.  Period.

My bigger point was the irony of how people act with laws and mandates and not thinking twice about vs. how they lose their shit regarding this vaccine. Most people (I will include myself) don't think about certain things to the level you do.

I will say it again, I m not wanting to round people up and jab them but I am all for restricting their rights. We do this ALL THE TIME!

That, in and of itself, doesn't make it right. 

The devil is in the details; if the restrictions are fair and reasonable, I'm with you 100%.  If they become bullying (as they sometimes are), or are Draconian (as they sometimes are), then no.  Do it right; have it be a fair balance of rights versus obligations.  THAT'S how we do this all the time. 

[Stadler]

I see where you're digging at, and yes the current vaccine has pressed some magical butthurt button across our society. The only thing I think, personal opinion here folks....is that it shows how glaringly privelaged the US is across the board. We have so little suffering that occurs on the regular in other places that we have to manufacture it, and for some reason, the covid vax has clicked all the right boxes at just the right time even though the overwhelming scientific evidence states that it's safe, effective, and the easiest way out of the pandemic.

We might disagree in the details (I think there's privilege, but also a crippling level of insecurity as well) and the examples we'd use, but I don't disagree with this generally at all.

[Stadler]

I'll get this one:  I think it is effed up that you think all that people want to talk about is "Merican freedom," but you do you.

It's obvious that you have a hard on for me. I take it as a compliment! 

So answer the question. Prediction - I don't think you can.......

I did.   Multiple times.  I think the onus is on you now to see if you ACKNOWLEDGE the answer.  Not "agree with it", since I don't care about "being right", just acknowledge it as a legitimate answer.

And for the record, I despise the euphemism "'murican".  I think it's demeaning, dismissive, and insulting.  (I mean generally; I'm not accusing you of any of those things.).

No, your spot on. That's exactly how I meant to use the term. But for the record, not to be denigrating but if that term incites a certain stereotype image then so be it.

Sound pretty consistent with how Stdler uses the term “deplorable”. If the shoe fits ....

But I don't use it to be demeaning, dismissive or denigrating. That's how HILLARY meant it, and that's the tone it's kept since then.  I use it here because I don't believe there is this subset of "deplorable" Americans that are responsible for the problems facing our country.  I use it to highlight that stereotype and how inappropriate it is in terms of our national discourse (even if you think it's true).   I've made no bones about my belief that our divisiveness is our number one issue facing America; and I've also made no bones that it takes two to tango.  I blame BOTH SIDES EQUALLY for our philosophical gridlock. 

[Grappler]

We bought a box of the at-home covid tests, just to have in case we need them.  Apparently they are now flying off of shelves as parents have to test their kids to keep them in school.   $23 for two tests.  Hopefully we don't need them.

Our school district sent a letter to parents advising that because of the demand in testing, the Test-to-Stay tests marked for schools are delayed.  Our district had 43 kids home due to covid symptoms and 29 were forced to quarantine at home due to being identified as a close contact.  Within 4 schools. 

The district is proactively assigning chromebooks to students again in case they have to quarantine before the Test to Stay/Shield testing is operational.  So here we go again with the potential for remote school for kids. 

 

[hefdaddy42]

I might be a skeleton before a mod honors my PR request, so questions of legality aside (of which I have many), I will say this:

I hope, at least, that it works. I'm not thrilled about having to return to the office, but I'll feel better if I know that over 75% of my coworkers are vaccinated.
I'm not thrilled about having to keep a child in daycare, but I'll feel better knowing that the staff are mostly all vaccinated and that the parents of the children are, too.

The interesting thing is, I'm against this largely (though if it really is a choice - vaccine or test - then I'm a lot more comfortable with it) but even so, I feel the same way as you.  I WOULD feel better if those around me and my kids were vaccinated.  I just don't value "my feeling better" as anything that anyone else should be worried about.  Or that our policy should address.  Or that the law should be subordinate to.   A lot - too much - of our recent policy seems predicated on that most subjective (and elusive) of standards and we're not better off for it (it's only serving to deepen our divisiveness).

There's a muddy line between "I feel safer" and "I am safer". I was reading this morning, I think it was in Kentucky, all patients currently in ICU with Covid under the age of 50 are not vaccinated. It's clear that communities as a whole are safer if vaccinated (see CT's rates). I don't just feel safer with speed limits on the highway, I am safer, even if some people choose to ignore those limits. That's kind of where I'm at with this.

It's exactly where I am with it.  Vaccine mandates won't be to make some people "feel" safer.  They will be to make everyone ACTUALLY safer.

Well over 90% of all hospitalizations and deaths due to COVID are among the unvaccinated, and they are literally causing people coming to ERs with other emergency situations to not get treated, or to have massive delays in treatment, leading to worsening conditions or even death in some cases.  At this point, it's just ridiculous and selfish, and fuck those people.  Because it's not about "my body/my choice", it's bigger than that.

There weren't really any such attitudes during previous vaccine rollouts.  People didn't refuse to get the polio vaccine because of "my freedom". 

[Adami]

I wonder the reaction would've been if they just called this Testing Mandates with the option to the get the vaccine if you don't want to do regular testing.

[Stadler]

Because it's not about "my body/my choice", it's bigger than that.

Except it's not bigger than that.  CLEARLY it's not bigger than that, or we wouldn't be fighting about it.   Hell, I HAVE the vaccine (and will get any boosters I need the minute I can if it makes sense) and it's not bigger than that.  I just happened to opt for the "right" decision.

There weren't really any such attitudes during previous vaccine rollouts.  People didn't refuse to get the polio vaccine because of "my freedom".

No, but there really weren't a LOT of things back then.  There wasn't the bullying and shaming of social media, either.  There wasn't the constant bombardment against and dismissal of people's contrasting ideas.  There wasn't the sort of "norm" of dismissing anyone you didn't agree with as a "libtard" or a "deplorable".  This is only partly about vaccines.  This is about the divisiveness and antagonism that has been prevalent for years now.  It just happens to have immediate real world consequences, moreso than some of the other issues we've had to deal with.

[Skeever]

My sister-in-law who is anti-vax (her kids don't even have their shots) managed to get COVID the day before going into labor. She got a bad case of bell's palsey with it and now one side of her face is paralyzed but that will probably be temporary. Oh, by the way, she was walking around stores unmasked a week later - so selfish. Because she didn't die from it she's just dug in with her anti-vax and anti-precautions stance.

Oh, and my Uncle is now in the ICU.

He's a staunch anti-vaxxer, and strong Trump supporter who even made an appearance at Jan 6th, but as far as I know wasn't one of the people who crossed barricades (at least, I hope not...).

Really sucks - he was a great guy before the Trump Derangement started to set in and then he became that guy who talks about and interjects politics into every conversation. Seeing his wife go from spouting QAnon stuff in one Facebook post and then her next post being "need prayers now!" was a scenario that I didn't want to believe was actually true when I saw people in the media talking about it weeks ago.

[Stadler]

And there's this:  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-york-hospital-pause-delivering-babies-after-staffers-quit-rather-n1279001

[Stadler]

My sister-in-law who is anti-vax (her kids don't even have their shots) managed to get COVID the day before going into labor. She got a bad case of bell's palsey with it and now one side of her face is paralyzed but that will probably be temporary. Oh, by the way, she was walking around stores unmasked a week later - so selfish. Because she didn't die from it she's just dug in with her anti-vax and anti-precautions stance.

Oh, and my Uncle is now in the ICU.

He's a staunch anti-vaxxer, and strong Trump supporter who even made an appearance at Jan 6th, but as far as I know wasn't one of the people who crossed barricades (at least, I hope not...).

Really sucks - he was a great guy before the Trump Derangement started to set in and then he became that guy who talks about and interjects politics into every conversation. Seeing his wife go from spouting QAnon stuff in one Facebook post and then her next post being "need prayers now!" was a scenario that I didn't want to believe was actually true when I saw people in the media talking about it weeks ago.

Honest question, why do you think that all came about?  They didn't just wake up with the crazy. 

[Grappler]

Honest question, why do you think that all came about?  They didn't just wake up with the crazy.

I've seen it with my and my wife's families.  They used to keep everything in check and they're not bad to be around.  She had one aunt that went off the deep end with right-wing politics well prior to 2016.  I believe for most people, it has to do with Trump - he speaks without a filter and people love him for it.  So now, they feel like they have permission to speak without a filter because he does.  Everything that they usually keep to themselves now comes pouring out.  My wife's sweet, kind, 70 something year old aunt goes on Facebook and writes awful, nasty things about "dems" and people who looted in last year's riots. 

He also popularized the evil mainstream media/fake news idea, so everyone who loves him stopped tuning into their standard news sources and dug in deeper with more opinioned and crazier sources.  MSM coitizes their hero, so they go where he isn't criticized.  When the other party (and media) is so adamantly against one candidate/President, then they dig in even further than that with their love and support. 

We've backed away from her side of the family and stopped attending gatherings for several reasons.  The constant political conversations is one, and their lack of caring about Covid is another.  We had talked to her aunt once and she admitted that they weren't doing much because of covid last year, then you'll see her online complaining about masks and mandates.  Well, which is it?  Are you posturing online or not?  Do we feel comfortable going to a family Christmas party with 20-30 people in a small home when we know where your covid beliefs lie even though we feel like we can't trust you?

[emtee]

And there's this:  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-york-hospital-pause-delivering-babies-after-staffers-quit-rather-n1279001

That's the story I mentioned a few posts up.

[lonestar]

And there's this:  https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/new-york-hospital-pause-delivering-babies-after-staffers-quit-rather-n1279001

That's the story I mentioned a few posts up.

Something tells me the babies are still coming, they're just not helping lol

[King Postwhore]

Honest question, why do you think that all came about?  They didn't just wake up with the crazy.

I've seen it with my and my wife's families.  They used to keep everything in check and they're not bad to be around.  She had one aunt that went off the deep end with right-wing politics well prior to 2016.  I believe for most people, it has to do with Trump - he speaks without a filter and people love him for it.  So now, they feel like they have permission to speak without a filter because he does.  Everything that they usually keep to themselves now comes pouring out.  My wife's sweet, kind, 70 something year old aunt goes on Facebook and writes awful, nasty things about "dems" and people who looted in last year's riots. 

He also popularized the evil mainstream media/fake news idea, so everyone who loves him stopped tuning into their standard news sources and dug in deeper with more opinioned and crazier sources.  MSM coitizes their hero, so they go where he isn't criticized.  When the other party (and media) is so adamantly against one candidate/President, then they dig in even further than that with their love and support. 

We've backed away from her side of the family and stopped attending gatherings for several reasons.  The constant political conversations is one, and their lack of caring about Covid is another.  We had talked to her aunt once and she admitted that they weren't doing much because of covid last year, then you'll see her online complaining about masks and mandates.  Well, which is it?  Are you posturing online or not?  Do we feel comfortable going to a family Christmas party with 20-30 people in a small home when we know where your covid beliefs lie even though we feel like we can't trust you?

I honestly think it started before Trump.  Trump was just the magnifying glass that started the fire.  t advent of the internet where people feel safe to say things without repercussions was the start.  Now people stay things they wouldn't in the past in public of face to face.  Trump allowed it to be ok to say those things in public.

[Ben_Jamin]

My sister-in-law who is anti-vax (her kids don't even have their shots) managed to get COVID the day before going into labor. She got a bad case of bell's palsey with it and now one side of her face is paralyzed but that will probably be temporary. Oh, by the way, she was walking around stores unmasked a week later - so selfish. Because she didn't die from it she's just dug in with her anti-vax and anti-precautions stance.

Oh, and my Uncle is now in the ICU.

He's a staunch anti-vaxxer, and strong Trump supporter who even made an appearance at Jan 6th, but as far as I know wasn't one of the people who crossed barricades (at least, I hope not...).

Really sucks - he was a great guy before the Trump Derangement started to set in and then he became that guy who talks about and interjects politics into every conversation. Seeing his wife go from spouting QAnon stuff in one Facebook post and then her next post being "need prayers now!" was a scenario that I didn't want to believe was actually true when I saw people in the media talking about it weeks ago.

First, and foremost. I am so sorry about your Uncle being in the ICU. Hopefully he's a fighter and has that will to fight.



I say this only to help in understanding how in even surviving this illness, people will still hold onto their beliefs.

Have you ever asked your uncle how he feels about death and if he were to die the next day?

Asking this simple question will give you an understanding into how one perceives life. And it will get that person to consider the possibility of dying tomorrow and what the effects of that would be, who else and what else will be effected by your absence on this world. Even at that though, Life is not guaranteed and there are things we term Accidents or Causes of Nature, Acts of God that a person could die from. These perceptions of death can effect a persons decisions regarding the choices they comes across in life.

[Skeever]

Honest question, why do you think that all came about?  They didn't just wake up with the crazy.

My best guess is exactly along Grappler's lines: 45.

Yes it may be tired to keep going back to that, and there are certainly other factors... but also, it's hard to fathom just how much poison that man's rhetorical posture brought into the mainstream.

[Ben_Jamin]

Honest question, why do you think that all came about?  They didn't just wake up with the crazy.

My best guess is exactly along Grappler's lines: 45.

Yes it may be tired to keep going back to that, and there are certainly other factors... but also, it's hard to fathom just how much poison that man's rhetorical posture brought into the mainstream.

He didn't bring anything in. He gave it a LOUD voice and the echo spans far and is lingering.

[hefdaddy42]

Because it's not about "my body/my choice", it's bigger than that.

Except it's not bigger than that.  CLEARLY it's not bigger than that, or we wouldn't be fighting about it.   Hell, I HAVE the vaccine (and will get any boosters I need the minute I can if it makes sense) and it's not bigger than that.  I just happened to opt for the "right" decision.

Yes it is bigger than that.  Saying that it's not because of some philosophical stance doesn't change the reality being faced in almost every hospital in the nation right now, especially in the so-called red states, where vaccination levels are lowest.

If they don't want the vaccine, they should have the decency to face the consequences without treatment either, thereby not clogging up the ERs.

[emtee]

Social media and the web of lies therein, played a huge part.

It's not just Trump though. Remember Multiple D's, including Harris, created doubt by saying they didn't trust the vaccine because of Trump and the rush to get it to market. There is plenty of blame all around.

[Adami]

Social media and the web of lies therein, played a huge part.

It's not just Trump though. Remember Multiple D's, including Harris, created doubt by saying they didn't trust the vaccine because of Trump and the rush to get it to market. There is plenty of blame all around.

I might be wrong, but I don't think that's what was said. If I recall correctly, they said they would trust a vaccine if the scientists vouched for it, but not if it was JUST Trump touting it.

[ProfessorPeart]

I have a very similar situation to Grappler. My wife's Uncle was very much the same. For years he was just the cool Uncle that we would see every so often. A genuinely nice guy. Then Trump hit office. He started talking politics almost all of the time and speaking of Dems in a very hateful way and doing the Facebook rant stuff. Then when Covid it, he was over at my house visiting and brings up the 'hoax'. Mind you, I work for a large hospital system in the Chicago area. This was right in the midst of when I had a lot of my benefits reduced or eliminated due to the stress we were under due to the covid load. I did not take kindly to that and told him exactly how it was affecting us. He briefly shut up but got back to it eventually.

I saw seeds of some of this as far back as the Tea Party movement and that Freedom Caucus or whatever they call themselves. That got my Dad going. Thankfully, he did not resist the Covid vaccine. I think having me in healthcare and the fact that I got it helped.

[hunnus2000]

I too have a bro-in-law that has gone to the dark side but he must have always been this way for some time. I just think the Trump years allowed the beast to exit. We found out that he has always cheated on his wife but they were the perfect religious couple that the community looked up to. Now he's separated, in love with a crazy right wing talk show host. His mother forbids to come around without a mask and he has infected his son and grandson. Years ago, we would come up for Thanksgiving and it was great family fun and poof - it's over with them.

It's maddening!

[Skeever]

Social media and the web of lies therein, played a huge part.

It's not just Trump though. Remember Multiple D's, including Harris, created doubt by saying they didn't trust the vaccine because of Trump and the rush to get it to market. There is plenty of blame all around.

I remember that - but they reigned her back in line fairly quickly. And that's what failed to happen when Trump brought Pat Buchananism back into the mainstream and mixed it with a little Vince McMahon. Yes, it's the USA, everything is going to be politicized. There was simply no reigning him in, and he sure as hell wasn't going to reign in anyone who moved the ball on his rhetoric further, and the results on the overall conversation speak for themselves.

[emtee]

Social media and the web of lies therein, played a huge part.

It's not just Trump though. Remember Multiple D's, including Harris, created doubt by saying they didn't trust the vaccine because of Trump and the rush to get it to market. There is plenty of blame all around.

I might be wrong, but I don't think that's what was said. If I recall correctly, they said they would trust a vaccine if the scientists vouched for it, but not if it was JUST Trump touting it.

You're not wrong but she said she would not trust any vaccine before the election. For people who trusted her and were seeking data, this created doubt and she tied it to politics. Now, I'm not a D or an R and I'm not beholden to any party but seeing this for what it is, along with Trump and social media; they all own a part of creating this vaccine mess.

[cramx3]

Social media and the web of lies therein, played a huge part.

It's not just Trump though. Remember Multiple D's, including Harris, created doubt by saying they didn't trust the vaccine because of Trump and the rush to get it to market. There is plenty of blame all around.

I might be wrong, but I don't think that's what was said. If I recall correctly, they said they would trust a vaccine if the scientists vouched for it, but not if it was JUST Trump touting it.

You're not wrong but she said she would not trust any vaccine before the election. For people who trusted her and were seeking data, this created doubt and she tied it to politics. Now, I'm not a D or an R and I'm not beholden to any party but seeing this for what it is, along with Trump and social media; they all own a part of creating this vaccine mess.

I've seen enough posts on social media to know she said it, but it's not full context so I'm not 100% sure how she meant it.  But there's clips of dems out there saying they wouldn't take a vaccine under Trump and those being circulated is a not a good look even if the context is a bit different than what the clip suggests.  File this under another reason why social media is a cause of disinformation.

[King Postwhore]

The clips were edited. Harris was hesitant with Trump's distribution plans. But then again, it was during an election where both sides throw out negatives towards each other.