Coronavirus Thread v.2

[WilliamMunny]

I honestly don't know what that makes me—liberal? Conservative? Both? Again, I'm not a registered anything, so I'm really out of my depth here. I'm just a hard-working guy who wants everyone I know to live a long, full life.

We are talking a virus here, it should have NOTHING to do with your political views.  Sadly, we all know that is not the reality though.

I hear you...but over the past two years, this has morphed into a very political issue...at least, in my personal interactions.

[Stadler]

I honestly don't know what that makes me—liberal? Conservative? Both? Again, I'm not a registered anything, so I'm really out of my depth here. I'm just a hard-working guy who wants everyone I know to live a long, full life.

I think it makes you human.   

[Grappler]

A good portion of the people that dislike Fauci now only do because Trump told them to.

I don't think this was pinpointed towards me, but just wanted to be clear that I don't listen to Trump.  My dislike for Fauci is more recent than Trump's disliking of him and goes back to what I said above.  I don't think the guy has any ill intentions, but I think he focuses way too much on basking in the spotlight.  Having said that, I would love to know the truth about his involvement in the Wuhan lab.

No it wasn't pinpointed at you, no worries. 

[El Barto]

I honestly don't know what that makes me—liberal? Conservative? Both? Again, I'm not a registered anything, so I'm really out of my depth here. I'm just a hard-working guy who wants everyone I know to live a long, full life.

It makes you a sheeple, actually. That's one of the things that fascinates me. All of these asshats that have determined they're smarter than the entire global medical community overlook the fact that if their conspiracy were true, it would be the first time in history that the entire planet all united for a single goal. Republicans/democrats/socialists/capitalists/democracies/dictatorships/dogs/cats/Christians/Moslems/Jews, are all of the same mindset, wear a mask and get vaccinated, yet apparently it's a conspiracy by the American government to control us all.

[Grappler]

In March/April 2020, I couldn't find a mask at all in my area of the Chicago suburbs, let alone that coveted N-95.  We ordered a dozen bandannas through Amazon in April, but it took 30 days to get them because of the rush on face coverings and masks.  They arrived just before Illinois instituted their first mask mandate.  Later that summer, I was able to get some fabric ones at Target.

I have no doubt that Fauci was right in that instance - he was aware of a potential public panic over masks and prioritized the health industry at the time.  We all know that Trump was holding the national PPE stockpile hostage and dolling them out on a whim to his favored states, so I'm sure Fauci had that in the back of his mind as well - the national backstop wouldn't be there for some as it would others.

We do?

Trump withheld ventilators and PPE from Illinois during the early days of the pandemic solely because we have a Democrat governor that was highly critical of him.  Our governor had to spend $2M to get shipments of PPE from China to Illinois. 

[WilliamMunny]

I honestly don't know what that makes me—liberal? Conservative? Both? Again, I'm not a registered anything, so I'm really out of my depth here. I'm just a hard-working guy who wants everyone I know to live a long, full life.

It makes you a sheeple, actually. That's one of the things that fascinates me. All of these asshats that have determined they're smarter than the entire global medical community overlook the fact that if their conspiracy were true, it would be the first time in history that the entire planet all united for a single goal. Republicans/democrats/socialists/capitalists/democracies/dictatorships/dogs/cats/Christians/Moslems/Jews, are all of the same mindset, wear a mask and get vaccinated, yet apparently it's a conspiracy by the American government to control us all.

Wanting the best for others makes me sheep? Interesting take—thanks for the blanket assessment of my character based on a post on DT forums.

[Lonk]

But there's another part of me that will never understand how public health and politics got so muddeled together. Or, perhaps a better way to say it is this: I understand 'how' it happened, but it strikes me as an incredibly sad state of affairs.

Sorry about the way things are for you, wishing good health to your wife and baby. I spoke about this before, but I believe (IMO), had the pandemic started in 2021, 2018 or 2017, this would not have transformed into a political issue in the US. The fact that it happen during an election year, while candidates were supposed to be campaigning is why this health issue became political (Again, just my opinion).

[Chino]

I could have sworn I remember reading that the owner of the Patriots used the team plane to sneak millions of masks into the country in secret because the last administration was seizing all incoming shipments, hording them, and not distributing them to states like MA. He worked with the governor to sneak them into the state.

[El Barto]

In March/April 2020, I couldn't find a mask at all in my area of the Chicago suburbs, let alone that coveted N-95.  We ordered a dozen bandannas through Amazon in April, but it took 30 days to get them because of the rush on face coverings and masks.  They arrived just before Illinois instituted their first mask mandate.  Later that summer, I was able to get some fabric ones at Target.

I have no doubt that Fauci was right in that instance - he was aware of a potential public panic over masks and prioritized the health industry at the time.  We all know that Trump was holding the national PPE stockpile hostage and dolling them out on a whim to his favored states, so I'm sure Fauci had that in the back of his mind as well - the national backstop wouldn't be there for some as it would others.

We do?

I'm actually with you on this. "He did?" was my first thought when reading that. At the same time, I don't think we can really dispute that he was anti-mask for a very long time, and that's a huge part of the Fauci problem we're discussing. He didn't like wearing them, and his primary concern (and I think you'll agree here) was about the optics of how he was handling this. People wearing masks didn't look good for him, from his perspective of how a good president should look.

[El Barto]

I honestly don't know what that makes me—liberal? Conservative? Both? Again, I'm not a registered anything, so I'm really out of my depth here. I'm just a hard-working guy who wants everyone I know to live a long, full life.

It makes you a sheeple, actually. That's one of the things that fascinates me. All of these asshats that have determined they're smarter than the entire global medical community overlook the fact that if their conspiracy were true, it would be the first time in history that the entire planet all united for a single goal. Republicans/democrats/socialists/capitalists/democracies/dictatorships/dogs/cats/Christians/Moslems/Jews, are all of the same mindset, wear a mask and get vaccinated, yet apparently it's a conspiracy by the American government to control us all.

Wanting the best for others makes me sheep? Interesting take—thanks for the blanket assessment of my character based on a post on DT forums.

Dude, I'm on your side here. The people that would call you a sheep are fucking idiots.

[WilliamMunny]

I honestly don't know what that makes me—liberal? Conservative? Both? Again, I'm not a registered anything, so I'm really out of my depth here. I'm just a hard-working guy who wants everyone I know to live a long, full life.

It makes you a sheeple, actually. That's one of the things that fascinates me. All of these asshats that have determined they're smarter than the entire global medical community overlook the fact that if their conspiracy were true, it would be the first time in history that the entire planet all united for a single goal. Republicans/democrats/socialists/capitalists/democracies/dictatorships/dogs/cats/Christians/Moslems/Jews, are all of the same mindset, wear a mask and get vaccinated, yet apparently it's a conspiracy by the American government to control us all.

Wanting the best for others makes me sheep? Interesting take—thanks for the blanket assessment of my character based on a post on DT forums.

Dude, I'm on your side here. The people that would call you a sheep are fucking idiots.

Ahhh. Gotcha—I complete misread you. Thanks for the clarification. No worries here.

[cramx3]

Here's an article about the Fauci interview with Anderson Cooper I mentioned yesterday

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-predicts-good-control-over-000400864.html

In answering Cooper's follow-up question about what he meant by getting "control" of the virus, Fauci said it translated to a "degree of overall blanket protection of the community" that could see a return to "a degree of normality, namely reassuming the things that we were hoping we could do. Restaurants, theaters, that kind of thing."

This quote kind of confused me when I was watching because.... his examples are all things that people are doing already.  Other than wearing a mask, it's basically already back to normal.  I have no idea what he's talking about. Are there parts of the US that still have no indoor dining or things shutdown?

[hunnus2000]

The following is a good article of a lady and how she got sucked into what I consider a cult. It gives good insight quickly people can change and possibly answer the "how could this ever have happened"?

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/08/13/qanon-radicalization-bernie-sanders-supporter-503295

[El Barto]

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like all of the people really up in arms about masks and vaccines are middle aged white women. The guys seem content to just post silly shit on the interwebs like they always do. It's the soccer moms that are out protesting, and screaming about Nazis on the local news. Seems kind of strange to me.

[Harmony]

There are definitely a lot of Karen's out there.  Then there are also people like this.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-08-24/lafd-captain-attacks-city-vaccination-requirement

[ProfessorPeart]

Found out today that my company (Healthcare) is making the vaccine a requirement for employment, just like the flu shot.

I never got the flu shot until it got tied to my employment. My response when it was? I got the shot. Seemed rather simple. I already have the covid vax since January so I'm good there. About ready for my booster now.

[Lonk]

Here's an article about the Fauci interview with Anderson Cooper I mentioned yesterday

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-predicts-good-control-over-000400864.html

In answering Cooper's follow-up question about what he meant by getting "control" of the virus, Fauci said it translated to a "degree of overall blanket protection of the community" that could see a return to "a degree of normality, namely reassuming the things that we were hoping we could do. Restaurants, theaters, that kind of thing."

This quote kind of confused me when I was watching because.... his examples are all things that people are doing already.  Other than wearing a mask, it's basically already back to normal.  I have no idea what he's talking about. Are there parts of the US that still have no indoor dining or things shutdown?

There are places who still have restrictions (though more locally rather than statewide), as well as the required vaccination proof for certain events. Also, certain private business have their own restrictions.

I went out to dinner a few nights ago. I forgot that NYC restaurants are required to check for proof of vaccination so I was a bit surprised when they asked. The place was a ghost town. Literally nobody else in the restaurant while I was there except for a couple that sat down about 5 minutes before I was done.

[King Postwhore]

I know they haven't made it official about booster shots but what was the estimate on how long the 1st 2 shots would last?  Was it 8 months?  I can't remember. 

[El Barto]

There are definitely a lot of Karen's out there.  Then there are also people like this.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-08-24/lafd-captain-attacks-city-vaccination-requirement

Like I said, there are certainly angry men venting about it. It's just that whenever I see a picture it's always middle aged white women. I just searched mask protesters, and this was the very first image that came up.



Notice how disinterested the men in this picture look.

[ProfessorPeart]

I know they haven't made it official about booster shots but what was the estimate on how long the 1st 2 shots would last?  Was it 8 months?  I can't remember.

As with everything else, they are still figuring it out.

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/features/covid-19-vaccine-booster-shots-what-do-we-know/

[cramx3]

Notice how disinterested the men in this picture look.

The women look that way too.  From my experience, I'm not sure I noticed a difference, I see it from both sexes.

[Stadler]

The following is a good article of a lady and how she got sucked into what I consider a cult. It gives good insight quickly people can change and possibly answer the "how could this ever have happened"?

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/08/13/qanon-radicalization-bernie-sanders-supporter-503295

Those articles alternately fascinate me, frustrate me and anger me. 

Fascinate me:  how people can immerse themselves so much in to one basket of thinking.  There's not a subject/topic on the planet where I don't see comparing and contrasting views in real life.   And while I have my way of looking at things, I also strongly believe that I HAVE - not should, not want, but HAVE - to incorporate those facts that DON'T fit my worldview in.  I don't get to ignore the things that don't fit.   These people are quite comfortable in doing that.

Frustrate me: That people will read that and point fingers at Qanon, fuckin' weirdos, but will ignore things like "One thing QAnon and Bernie have in common is the belief that there is a group of corrupt elites that makes it hard for everyone else in the country and the world to stay afloat. I hadn’t trusted the government entirely before 2016 — for example, I didn’t find the explanations of 9/11 or the assassination of John F. Kennedy to be satisfactory. But my distrust only strengthened when I started to support Bernie that year." even though I've been saying for months/years that the difference between those on the "right side of history" and those not is rather slim and maybe even not that different at all.

Anger me:  that there is almost no personal accountability in that article.  "I was radicalized"; where is the ownership of that?  Where is the accountability?   I was stressed; I was depressed; I was this; I was that.   At what point - if at all - do we say "I'm the captain of my ship.  I'm responsible for my actions and my beliefs and my feelings"?     And if we're NOT accountable, if "shit happens" to people and they get caught unawares, why doesn't that apply to the OTHER deplorables?   Why does it seem like only some of us get to distance, but others - usually the "them" in the "us versus them" equation, not-so-coincidentially - are held to a different standard?

[jingle.boy]

... I don't consider wearing a mask to be a Constitutional violation (though the CHOICE to wear a mask is).

Genuine question... how is the choice to wear a mask a Constitutional violation?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding your wording.  Are you suggesting mask mandates are a violation of constitutional rights?

My bad for being sloppy; it's not that the CHOICE is the violation;  it's the taking away of the choice that MAY be a violation.  Yes, I am suggesting that there is a Constitutional argument - the right to privacy, the same theory that makes abortions legal - against mandates.  I'm not saying it's a GOOD argument, just that it is an issue (though the argument is FAR stronger for vaccines than masks).

My take is that everyone has a choice... there are simply consequences to their choices.  In this regard, no Gestapo is regulating mask usage.

No one is having their choice to wear a seatbelt taken away, you just get a ticket if you're caught.

[Stadler]

... I don't consider wearing a mask to be a Constitutional violation (though the CHOICE to wear a mask is).

Genuine question... how is the choice to wear a mask a Constitutional violation?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding your wording.  Are you suggesting mask mandates are a violation of constitutional rights?

My bad for being sloppy; it's not that the CHOICE is the violation;  it's the taking away of the choice that MAY be a violation.  Yes, I am suggesting that there is a Constitutional argument - the right to privacy, the same theory that makes abortions legal - against mandates.  I'm not saying it's a GOOD argument, just that it is an issue (though the argument is FAR stronger for vaccines than masks).

My take is that everyone has a choice... there are simply consequences to their choices.  In this regard, no Gestapo is regulating mask usage.

No one is having their choice to wear a seatbelt taken away, you just get a ticket if you're caught.

As long as the "consequences" are fair and reasonable.  I have a problem when the "consequences" are Draconian in nature and don't really allow for a choice.   When the "Mob" is in charge of determining those "consequences", the chances of fairness drop exponentially.   This gets even worse as time and distance intervene (I'm thinking of those cases where people are today bearing the brunt of "consequences" unilaterally imposed retroactively on events/actions/choices made 10, 20 or even more years ago.)

[hefdaddy42]

People always have a choice.

[jingle.boy]

People always have a choice.

Even if you choose not to decide.

[Stadler]

People always have a choice.

Do they, though?  These conversations always seem so different depending on what side of the prism you're on.  Replace "vaccine" (or "tweet like Gina Carano"; she's no different than those who don't want to get the vaccine, at least in the context of the vaunted "consequences") with "join a union", or "want to take extended paternity leave" or any of a number of other things that many of you would fight tooth and nail to have "protections" over and the conversation gets muddy in a heartbeat.

[jingle.boy]

All choices have consequences.  Some might not want to (or be able to) accept/deal with those consequences, but there is always choice.  My number 1 rule in life is "the only thing you have to do is breathe - everything else is a choice."

That's just me.

[El Barto]

... I don't consider wearing a mask to be a Constitutional violation (though the CHOICE to wear a mask is).

Genuine question... how is the choice to wear a mask a Constitutional violation?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding your wording.  Are you suggesting mask mandates are a violation of constitutional rights?

My bad for being sloppy; it's not that the CHOICE is the violation;  it's the taking away of the choice that MAY be a violation.  Yes, I am suggesting that there is a Constitutional argument - the right to privacy, the same theory that makes abortions legal - against mandates.  I'm not saying it's a GOOD argument, just that it is an issue (though the argument is FAR stronger for vaccines than masks).

My take is that everyone has a choice... there are simply consequences to their choices.  In this regard, no Gestapo is regulating mask usage.

No one is having their choice to wear a seatbelt taken away, you just get a ticket if you're caught.

As long as the "consequences" are fair and reasonable.  I have a problem when the "consequences" are Draconian in nature and don't really allow for a choice.   When the "Mob" is in charge of determining those "consequences", the chances of fairness drop exponentially.   This gets even worse as time and distance intervene (I'm thinking of those cases where people are today bearing the brunt of "consequences" unilaterally imposed retroactively on events/actions/choices made 10, 20 or even more years ago.)

Generally speaking, I agree with you. You and I have almost always been on the same side here, and in this case I might even go so far as to say that the consequences are harsh enough to preclude it from being an actual "choice." Not being able to send your kid to school, a school you've paid for, crosses a line in my book. At the same time, this is a line that has existed for a century. Certain vaccinations are required to attend schools, public or private, and we've accepted this. In fact, almost all of these mandates have been supported by the courts. I don't see this as the mob dictating actions and eliminating choice. I see it simply  matter of public health, which has long been the government's domain.

Seems to me, at least insofar as schools go, some sort of intervention would make sense. Have some calm and nonthreatening Dr Phil type explain it to parents in simple, undisputed terms and statistics. Here's how many people have received the vaccine and here are the numbers of people who've died and/or grown third appendages as a result. Here are the number of people who've contracted Covid, the number who have died, and the number of those who were vaccinated and unvaccinated. Really, the numbers speak for themselves here. If you can't get over it after that, you should probably just homeschool your kid. In truth you're already pretty likely to screw your kid up either way. The world needs ditch-diggers, and for my part, I'll add titty-dancers to that time-honored witticism. I'm sure Ted Knight would approve.

[King Postwhore]

All choices have consequences.  Some might not want to (or be able to) accept/deal with those consequences, but there is always choice.  My number 1 rule in life is "the only thing you have to do is breathe - everything else is a choice."

That's just me.

Cam Newton is a good example of this in the last 4 days.

[lonestar]

People always have a choice.

Even if you choose not to decide.

(couldn't let it hang man)

[emtee]

The opening of schools here in Florida has been a disaster. It was predictable. Many schools already had to close. Tens of thousands are quarantined. Sick kids brought it home to parents. It's quite a dilemma. I wish I had an answer or a solution but there isn't one.

On top of this, the CEO of Pfizer has said he's concerned that eventually a variant will emerge that is resistant to the vaccine. After almost 2 years of this, with no end in sight, the inner-doom that resides in the recesses of my psyche wonders if this will be a near- extinction event for humanity. Will it eventually wipe out a huge number of humans. Or maybe I'm just having another brutal day at work and my thoughts are polluted by it.

[lonestar]

There's a part of me that always fears a deadlier variant, it's not just you bud. Hang in there.

[Ben_Jamin]

... I don't consider wearing a mask to be a Constitutional violation (though the CHOICE to wear a mask is).

Genuine question... how is the choice to wear a mask a Constitutional violation?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding your wording.  Are you suggesting mask mandates are a violation of constitutional rights?

My bad for being sloppy; it's not that the CHOICE is the violation;  it's the taking away of the choice that MAY be a violation.  Yes, I am suggesting that there is a Constitutional argument - the right to privacy, the same theory that makes abortions legal - against mandates.  I'm not saying it's a GOOD argument, just that it is an issue (though the argument is FAR stronger for vaccines than masks).

My take is that everyone has a choice... there are simply consequences to their choices.  In this regard, no Gestapo is regulating mask usage.

No one is having their choice to wear a seatbelt taken away, you just get a ticket if you're caught.

In this case, it's not just giving you a ticket if caught. Your entire car and driving privileges are revoked. All for choosing not to wear a seatbelt. You can still walk, but it's a bit more difficult than it is to drive.

I am sure people took the vaccine because they don't want to walk, they'd rather drive, so in this instance people chose to wear the seatbelt.

... I don't consider wearing a mask to be a Constitutional violation (though the CHOICE to wear a mask is).

Genuine question... how is the choice to wear a mask a Constitutional violation?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding your wording.  Are you suggesting mask mandates are a violation of constitutional rights?

My bad for being sloppy; it's not that the CHOICE is the violation;  it's the taking away of the choice that MAY be a violation.  Yes, I am suggesting that there is a Constitutional argument - the right to privacy, the same theory that makes abortions legal - against mandates.  I'm not saying it's a GOOD argument, just that it is an issue (though the argument is FAR stronger for vaccines than masks).

My take is that everyone has a choice... there are simply consequences to their choices.  In this regard, no Gestapo is regulating mask usage.

No one is having their choice to wear a seatbelt taken away, you just get a ticket if you're caught.

As long as the "consequences" are fair and reasonable.  I have a problem when the "consequences" are Draconian in nature and don't really allow for a choice.   When the "Mob" is in charge of determining those "consequences", the chances of fairness drop exponentially.   This gets even worse as time and distance intervene (I'm thinking of those cases where people are today bearing the brunt of "consequences" unilaterally imposed retroactively on events/actions/choices made 10, 20 or even more years ago.)

Some actually consider those "time and distant" consequences as being Karma. Paying for the choices you made in the past.

Here you can use food, and smoking as examples. People get heart attacks, why? People die from smoking, why? How fast do these people die? It takes time, but they will eventually die as long as they continue choosing to keep doing these things, such as eating the highly fat, sugar loaded, deep fried in bacon grease, fair food, or taking that sweet puff of the Pall Malls.

[King Postwhore]

So when it comes to smoking, they finally figured out that 2nd hand smoke hurts other non smokers so what did they do?  Places now do not allow smoking inside.  So the consequence Chad is talking about is that places will soon say, no vaccination, no eating at our restaurant. Not being able to eat out will be the consequence.