Coronavirus Thread v.2

[cramx3]

I watched Fauci interviewed by Anderson Cooper last night and I thought he came off terribly. 

Well....not being conspiratorial or meaning any type of political agenda......but Fauci has been double and triple and quadruple talking out of his mouth for the past year and a half. Honestly, I don't know how anyone can take him seriously anymore given the amount of times he's contradicted himself....sometimes within days of the last comment.

It's time to remove him as the 'face' or the spokesperson for this whole deal.

Yeah, last night was not my personal turning point.  I feel like about 6 months ago or so I finally stopped listening to him.  His problem, IMO, is that he likes the spotlight too much and takes on way too many interviews.  Where there's no doubt, over time, he's going to contradict himself and not just because the science changes over time with regards to a mutating virus, his own words now change too.  I don't see him being removed or anything, but I really think the news networks or himself need to stop constantly having him on. 

[Ben_Jamin]

That perfectly aligns with what I say about using "terminology" to manipulate, or coerce. Changing terminology consistently has indications of talking out of his ass, he was lying, is just incompetent, or has some other purpose.

People know Fauci and know he is like this since he's been the "white House doctor" for quite a while. It's why Rand Paul and him beef and butt heads because they're both Doctors and Rand Paul sees through Faucis inconsistent wording.

But he did let out a key terminology word..."Control"....

[jingle.boy]

Even a monkey knows the importance of masking.   

https://twitter.com/buitengebieden_/status/1430163324713455624?fbclid=IwAR0y4XoSrbLhXR5A3tuGyIUVeQ60MR5q6hOqDOYQ05U3a1cT6qfM_bsCQuQ

[Ben_Jamin]

Even a monkey knows the importance of masking.   

https://twitter.com/buitengebieden_/status/1430163324713455624?fbclid=IwAR0y4XoSrbLhXR5A3tuGyIUVeQ60MR5q6hOqDOYQ05U3a1cT6qfM_bsCQuQ

He's like..."Look, I'm a people."

[El Barto]

That perfectly aligns with what I say about using "terminology" to manipulate, or coerce. Changing terminology consistently has indications of talking out of his ass, he was lying, is just incompetent, or has some other purpose.

People know Fauci and know he is like this since he's been the "white House doctor" for quite a while. It's why Rand Paul and him beef and butt heads because they're both Doctors and Rand Paul sees through Faucis inconsistent wording.

But he did let out a key terminology word..."Control"....

I think there's an important thing to consider with Fauci, which is that he's worked for two very different presidents, and has had to temper his wording for each. Being a mouthpiece for Trump is an impossible job, after all. I'm not suggesting that any confusion isn't necessarily his fault, perhaps it is, but we do need to incorporate political reality into his messaging, which often times does create contradiction and confusion.

"Saddam Hussein is predictable and poses no external threat to his neighbors."
"No, what we actually meant was that he's a deranged madman with ambitions of global dominance, and must be stopped at any cost. Sorry for the confusion."

To be fair, this does make him a less than reliable source of information. If he's willing to incorporate political messaging into his information at the request of his higher-ups, he needs to be questioned. At the same time I see him as starkly different from somebody like Rand Paul, whose soul focus is on his own benefit. One is confusing what it is that he's supposed to be saying with what is actually true. The other is a lying scumbag.

[cramx3]

Politics likely do play a role, but I don't think Fauci held back too much under Trump.  And it is still important that a mutating virus does mean things change and that's not really on Fauci if he's adapting to the latest information.  However, my opinion is it has seem to gone beyond just that.  Another forum I participate in, there's a lot more hate towards him there.  I'm not that far into my dislike, I just kind of think he's enjoying the spotlight a lot more than he should be and that is what is leading to more contradictions than politics or the virus itself IMO.

[El Barto]

Politics likely do play a role, but I don't think Fauci held back too much under Trump.  And it is still important that a mutating virus does mean things change and that's not really on Fauci if he's adapting to the latest information.  However, my opinion is it has seem to gone beyond just that.  Another forum I participate in, there's a lot more hate towards him there.  I'm not that far into my dislike, I just kind of think he's enjoying the spotlight a lot more than he should be and that is what is leading to more contradictions than politics or the virus itself IMO.

Perhaps it's just my drug-addled memory, but I do recall him catching a whole lot of flack during the early days from Trumptards when his message was changing to suit the whims of his superiors. I recall him flip-flopping on masks quite a bit in the early days and having to justify varying conflicting advice about whether or not they should be worn. That's almost certainly a matter of political interference. I mean, I realize he's not an expert like Ted Nugent, but wearing masks to prevent the spread of germs has been a thing since the 1860s, and he knows that.

[jingle.boy]

Another forum I participate in,

Wait, wut?  This does not compute.

[cramx3]

Politics likely do play a role, but I don't think Fauci held back too much under Trump.  And it is still important that a mutating virus does mean things change and that's not really on Fauci if he's adapting to the latest information.  However, my opinion is it has seem to gone beyond just that.  Another forum I participate in, there's a lot more hate towards him there.  I'm not that far into my dislike, I just kind of think he's enjoying the spotlight a lot more than he should be and that is what is leading to more contradictions than politics or the virus itself IMO.

Perhaps it's just my drug-addled memory, but I do recall him catching a whole lot of flack during the early days from Trumptards when his message was changing to suit the whims of his superiors. I recall him flip-flopping on masks quite a bit in the early days and having to justify varying conflicting advice about whether or not they should be worn. That's almost certainly a matter of political interference. I mean, I realize he's not an expert like Ted Nugent, but wearing masks to prevent the spread of germs has been a thing since the 1860s, and he knows that.

His reasoning was because we did not have enough masks at the time, so if he said we should wear masks, then the medical folks who needed them the most, would be the ones to suffer.  Which kind of makes sense, it's not the worst of his flip flops but it is definitely one of the many examples people have used against him.  I'm not really sure the mask thing was to please Trump at all.  I could be wrong.

Another forum I participate in,

Wait, wut?  This does not compute.

For Penn State football mostly, it's nothing like this forum, but it keeps me in the loop with the school and sports.  It has a very active covid thread though.

[lonestar]

Another forum I participate in,

Wait, wut?  This does not compute.

I feel so used.

[King Postwhore]

Another forum I participate in,

Wait, wut?  This does not compute.

I feel so used.

You want a cookie and some milk?

[TAC]

This is the only forum I use.

[Adami]

Another forum I participate in.....

[hunnus2000]

Politics likely do play a role, but I don't think Fauci held back too much under Trump.  And it is still important that a mutating virus does mean things change and that's not really on Fauci if he's adapting to the latest information.  However, my opinion is it has seem to gone beyond just that.  Another forum I participate in, there's a lot more hate towards him there.  I'm not that far into my dislike, I just kind of think he's enjoying the spotlight a lot more than he should be and that is what is leading to more contradictions than politics or the virus itself IMO.

Perhaps it's just my drug-addled memory, but I do recall him catching a whole lot of flack during the early days from Trumptards when his message was changing to suit the whims of his superiors. I recall him flip-flopping on masks quite a bit in the early days and having to justify varying conflicting advice about whether or not they should be worn. That's almost certainly a matter of political interference. I mean, I realize he's not an expert like Ted Nugent, but wearing masks to prevent the spread of germs has been a thing since the 1860s, and he knows that.

His reasoning was because we did not have enough masks at the time, so if he said we should wear masks, then the medical folks who needed them the most, would be the ones to suffer.  Which kind of makes sense, it's not the worst of his flip flops but it is definitely one of the many examples people have used against him.  I'm not really sure the mask thing was to please Trump at all.  I could be wrong.

My statement here will be anecdotal and I fully recognize that but - I live in a town of 4K. We have one Chinese restaurant. Even before the shit hit the fan, my wife went looking for masks because she was restoring  our living room table and needed masks so she could sand off the finish on the table. One place she went to was out of masks so she went to the hardware store where by luck, they found one package of 3. The guy said that the Chinese lady in town came and bought every mask they had with the intent of mailing them to relatives in China. I would imagine that's not the only account of this happening so maybe Fauci was right.
Hell we all know there was a run on toilet paper along with other shit.

[El Barto]

Politics likely do play a role, but I don't think Fauci held back too much under Trump.  And it is still important that a mutating virus does mean things change and that's not really on Fauci if he's adapting to the latest information.  However, my opinion is it has seem to gone beyond just that.  Another forum I participate in, there's a lot more hate towards him there.  I'm not that far into my dislike, I just kind of think he's enjoying the spotlight a lot more than he should be and that is what is leading to more contradictions than politics or the virus itself IMO.

Perhaps it's just my drug-addled memory, but I do recall him catching a whole lot of flack during the early days from Trumptards when his message was changing to suit the whims of his superiors. I recall him flip-flopping on masks quite a bit in the early days and having to justify varying conflicting advice about whether or not they should be worn. That's almost certainly a matter of political interference. I mean, I realize he's not an expert like Ted Nugent, but wearing masks to prevent the spread of germs has been a thing since the 1860s, and he knows that.

His reasoning was because we did not have enough masks at the time, so if he said we should wear masks, then the medical folks who needed them the most, would be the ones to suffer.  Which kind of makes sense, it's not the worst of his flip flops but it is definitely one of the many examples people have used against him.  I'm not really sure the mask thing was to please Trump at all.  I could be wrong.

My statement here will be anecdotal and I fully recognize that but - I live in a town of 4K. We have one Chinese restaurant. Even before the shit hit the fan, my wife went looking for masks because she was restoring  our living room table and needed masks so she could sand off the finish on the table. One place she went to was out of masks so she went to the hardware store where by luck, they found one package of 3. The guy said that the Chinese lady in town came and bought every mask they had with the intent of mailing them to relatives in China. I would imagine that's not the only account of this happening so maybe Fauci was right.
Hell we all know there was a run on toilet paper along with other shit.

The irony is that the Chinese then turned around and sold them to us. 

In the end, the great material continuum worked out pretty well. China got all of the PPE early on when they were the epicenter. When their situation cooled down and ours started heating up they sent them all our way. Of course it sucks to live in one of the shithole countries, but I think that already goes without saying.

In any case, Fauci was correct on both points. Leave them for the front line workers, and then later when supplies increased, suggesting everybody wear them. There was still a contradiction there in the minds of plenty, though, and those add up. Allegations don't have to be accurate if there are enough of them to suggest a problem.

[Grappler]

In March/April 2020, I couldn't find a mask at all in my area of the Chicago suburbs, let alone that coveted N-95.  We ordered a dozen bandannas through Amazon in April, but it took 30 days to get them because of the rush on face coverings and masks.  They arrived just before Illinois instituted their first mask mandate.  Later that summer, I was able to get some fabric ones at Target.

I have no doubt that Fauci was right in that instance - he was aware of a potential public panic over masks and prioritized the health industry at the time.  We all know that Trump was holding the national PPE stockpile hostage and dolling them out on a whim to his favored states, so I'm sure Fauci had that in the back of his mind as well - the national backstop wouldn't be there for some as it would others.

[cramx3]

Just remember the toilet paper, and I think we all know if Fauci said early on that masks were needed, well, you know where that was going to go.

There was still a contradiction there in the minds of plenty, though, and those add up. Allegations don't have to be accurate if there are enough of them to suggest a problem.

And this is kind of my bigger point.  I'm sure there were political reasons to contradict things too even if I can't immediately think of an example, but add these into the legit changes due to the virus changing and you have a nice stockpile of evidence to show Fauci contradicts himself.  I see it a lot on tiktok.  Not just with Fauci, but with all our political leaders as well.  They show a clip from March 2020 and a clip from June 2021 that show contradictory statements.  Some legit, some a bit more questionable, but the end result is people losing trust. 

[Grappler]

And this is kind of my bigger point.  I'm sure there were political reasons to contradict things too even if I can't immediately think of an example, but add these into the legit changes due to the virus changing and you have a nice stockpile of evidence to show Fauci contradicts himself.  I see it a lot on tiktok.  Not just with Fauci, but with all our political leaders as well.  They show a clip from March 2020 and a clip from June 2021 that show contradictory statements.  Some legit, some a bit more questionable, but the end result is people losing trust.

A good portion of the people that dislike Fauci now only do because Trump told them to.  He turned his back on Fauci (for contradicting him) and his faithful followers did the same.  I have a habit of doing a lot of Facebook sleuthing - I'll read some [bonehead] comment and click a person's profile and see if they fit a particular mold.   If someone bashes Fauci, you can bet they have an American flag in a profile picture, something pro-Trump, and some Christian/biblical quote somewhere on their personal profile.

I respected Fauci a lot in 2020 for finally putting his foot down and deciding to disobey Trump.  I don't pay close enough attention now to really have a reason to dislike him.

[KevShmev]

Wait, so having an American flag now in your profile picture is considered a bad thing?  Interesting.

And I guess I should tell the lady at work who is very Christian and is also a big time Democrat that she needs to reject Biden and start loving Trump, right?

[Grappler]

Just saying that it generally fits a pattern, that's all.  The Fauci hating didn't really start until Trump targeted him.

[KevShmev]

That may be, but he has shown himself to be a bit of clown show as more time has gone on, and to dismiss criticism of him as merely coming from flag-waving Trumpers and then basically wave off any new criticism under the banner of "eh, I am not really paying attention" seems more than a bit odd, IMO.

[Stadler]

In March/April 2020, I couldn't find a mask at all in my area of the Chicago suburbs, let alone that coveted N-95.  We ordered a dozen bandannas through Amazon in April, but it took 30 days to get them because of the rush on face coverings and masks.  They arrived just before Illinois instituted their first mask mandate.  Later that summer, I was able to get some fabric ones at Target.

I have no doubt that Fauci was right in that instance - he was aware of a potential public panic over masks and prioritized the health industry at the time.  We all know that Trump was holding the national PPE stockpile hostage and dolling them out on a whim to his favored states, so I'm sure Fauci had that in the back of his mind as well - the national backstop wouldn't be there for some as it would others.

We do?

[Stadler]

Just remember the toilet paper, and I think we all know if Fauci said early on that masks were needed, well, you know where that was going to go.

There was still a contradiction there in the minds of plenty, though, and those add up. Allegations don't have to be accurate if there are enough of them to suggest a problem.

And this is kind of my bigger point.  I'm sure there were political reasons to contradict things too even if I can't immediately think of an example, but add these into the legit changes due to the virus changing and you have a nice stockpile of evidence to show Fauci contradicts himself.  I see it a lot on tiktok.  Not just with Fauci, but with all our political leaders as well.  They show a clip from March 2020 and a clip from June 2021 that show contradictory statements.  Some legit, some a bit more questionable, but the end result is people losing trust.

I'm with you, Cram; political reasons are political reasons, and justifying them just reinforces the political underpinnings.  I'm not naive to the way the world works, but if we're going to call out "political reasons" when it's the "other team", we ought - in the spirit of the divisiveness that is paralyzing our country in countless ways - at least RECOGNIZE if not (preferably ALSO call out) the "political reasons" when it's someone we consider to be on "our team".   

We have, because of that political divide, a crisis of credibility, and he didn't help that.  There are ways of communicating that message that doesn't compromise.  He didn't take it, and now that the primary reason for that  (Trump) is gone, he's STILL not taking it.  I have respect for Fauci, and I will probably consider what he says because I'm able to look past bumper stickers and I'm willing to allow my "experts" to change their minds, but I was also the first in line to be vaccinated, and I don't consider wearing a mask to be a Constitutional violation (though the CHOICE to wear a mask is). 

[TAC]

I don't like or dislike Fauci. The guy was in a tough spot dealing with a virus that nobody had any idea about, learning on the fly about it, and dealing with Trump.

But I can't help think, every time I open my computer, and some interview he did is featured or quoted, that.....why is he always yapping..every day? Doesn't he have some actual work to do? Read a journal, do an experiment?

[lonestar]

I don't like or dislike Fauci. The guy was in a tough spot dealing with a virus that nobody had any idea about, learning on the fly about it, and dealing with Trump.

But I can't help think, every time I open my computer, and some interview he did is featured or quoted, that.....why is he always yapping..every day? Doesn't he have some actual work to do? Read a journal, do an experiment?

I would assume, as the director of the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases, that he has a massive team of scientists and researchers doing that for him and presenting him with the most recent data.

[TAC]

I don't like or dislike Fauci. The guy was in a tough spot dealing with a virus that nobody had any idea about, learning on the fly about it, and dealing with Trump.

But I can't help think, every time I open my computer, and some interview he did is featured or quoted, that.....why is he always yapping..every day? Doesn't he have some actual work to do? Read a journal, do an experiment?

I would assume, as the director of the National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Diseases, that he has a massive team of scientists and researchers doing that for him and presenting him with the most recent data.

Well, yes, of course. And his job IS to be the mouth piece. I'm not bashing him by any stretch. Just making that clear.

[jingle.boy]

In March/April 2020, I couldn't find a mask at all in my area of the Chicago suburbs, let alone that coveted N-95.  We ordered a dozen bandannas through Amazon in April, but it took 30 days to get them because of the rush on face coverings and masks.  They arrived just before Illinois instituted their first mask mandate.  Later that summer, I was able to get some fabric ones at Target.

I have no doubt that Fauci was right in that instance - he was aware of a potential public panic over masks and prioritized the health industry at the time.  We all know that Trump was holding the national PPE stockpile hostage and dolling them out on a whim to his favored states, so I'm sure Fauci had that in the back of his mind as well - the national backstop wouldn't be there for some as it would others.

We do?

Whether you (royal, not you specifically Bill) believed the media reports from March '20 or not, it was pretty well reported that he was directing PPE supplies, oftentimes away from Democratically led areas.  Remember the tiff he had with Whittmer/Michigan?  He also specifically directed 3M not to sell N95 masks to Canada (though that backfired when Trudeau hinted that we wouldn't sell the raw materials to 3M in order to make the masks  ).

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-admin-seizing-ppe/

[jingle.boy]

... I don't consider wearing a mask to be a Constitutional violation (though the CHOICE to wear a mask is).

Genuine question... how is the choice to wear a mask a Constitutional violation?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding your wording.  Are you suggesting mask mandates are a violation of constitutional rights?

[Stadler]

In March/April 2020, I couldn't find a mask at all in my area of the Chicago suburbs, let alone that coveted N-95.  We ordered a dozen bandannas through Amazon in April, but it took 30 days to get them because of the rush on face coverings and masks.  They arrived just before Illinois instituted their first mask mandate.  Later that summer, I was able to get some fabric ones at Target.

I have no doubt that Fauci was right in that instance - he was aware of a potential public panic over masks and prioritized the health industry at the time.  We all know that Trump was holding the national PPE stockpile hostage and dolling them out on a whim to his favored states, so I'm sure Fauci had that in the back of his mind as well - the national backstop wouldn't be there for some as it would others.

We do?

Whether you (royal, not you specifically Bill) believed the media reports from March '20 or not, it was pretty well reported that he was directing PPE supplies, oftentimes away from Democratically led areas.  Remember the tiff he had with Whittmer/Michigan?  He also specifically directed 3M not to sell N95 masks to Canada (though that backfired when Trudeau hinted that we wouldn't sell the raw materials to 3M in order to make the masks  ).

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-admin-seizing-ppe/

FEMA, and not Trump, and "we rate this claim “Mostly True” — with the caveat that the intervention efforts appear to be a part of a broader distribution plan that purportedly aims to get supplies to regions with the most urgent needs."

I think if "Trump" the name wasn't tied to this no one would have any beef with getting supplies to "regions with the most urgent needs".

[Stadler]

... I don't consider wearing a mask to be a Constitutional violation (though the CHOICE to wear a mask is).

Genuine question... how is the choice to wear a mask a Constitutional violation?  Maybe I'm misunderstanding your wording.  Are you suggesting mask mandates are a violation of constitutional rights?

My bad for being sloppy; it's not that the CHOICE is the violation;  it's the taking away of the choice that MAY be a violation.  Yes, I am suggesting that there is a Constitutional argument - the right to privacy, the same theory that makes abortions legal - against mandates.  I'm not saying it's a GOOD argument, just that it is an issue (though the argument is FAR stronger for vaccines than masks).

[cramx3]

But I can't help think, every time I open my computer, and some interview he did is featured or quoted, that.....why is he always yapping..every day? Doesn't he have some actual work to do? Read a journal, do an experiment?

This is my main issue with him.  He shouldn't be on TV every day and it's what IMO ultimately leads to his contradictions.

A good portion of the people that dislike Fauci now only do because Trump told them to.

I don't think this was pinpointed towards me, but just wanted to be clear that I don't listen to Trump.  My dislike for Fauci is more recent than Trump's disliking of him and goes back to what I said above.  I don't think the guy has any ill intentions, but I think he focuses way too much on basking in the spotlight.  Having said that, I would love to know the truth about his involvement in the Wuhan lab. 

[Stadler]

A good portion of the people that dislike Fauci now only do because Trump told them to.

I don't think this was pinpointed towards me, but just wanted to be clear that I don't listen to Trump.  My dislike for Fauci is more recent than Trump's disliking of him and goes back to what I said above.  I don't think the guy has any ill intentions, but I think he focuses way too much on basking in the spotlight.  Having said that, I would love to know the truth about his involvement in the Wuhan lab.

I'm with you; my skepticism has NOTHING to do with Trump at all.    It's simply the fact that he's become a lightning rod for each of the sides.  It's science; it's supposed to be independent of ideology. 

[WilliamMunny]

Things I know for a fact:

—My wife is 8 months pregnant and at a higher risk for illnesses of any kind.
—My 3 yo nephew is currently on oxygen, sick with RSV and pnemonia.
—My mother works for the Ohio Department of Health, and has nothing but heartbreaking horror stories for the past year and a half...she is scared to death every day that she goes to work.

It's a small list, but those are things I know for a fact, have witnessed first hand.

I'm pretty apolitical, but in regards to the health of those I love, I am deeply concerned and damn near ready and willing to do anything that will possibly protect those I love.

I don't care if it's a one percent chance—wear a mask everywhere I go? Sure. Take a vaccine? Sure. Hoenstly, whatever they want me to do, if it has a chance of protecting my wife and kid, I'm game.

I honestly don't know what that makes me—liberal? Conservative? Both? Again, I'm not a registered anything, so I'm really out of my depth here. I'm just a hard-working guy who wants everyone I know to live a long, full life.

The 'mask' thing seems like such an odd thing for me. I get it, trust me, I do. It's divisive. I've literally had people threaten violence against me over the past year over wearing a mask. I have a sister that refuses to see me bc I've requested that she wear a mask around my unvaccinated wife.

But there's another part of me that will never understand how public health and politics got so muddeled together. Or, perhaps a better way to say it is this: I understand 'how' it happened, but it strikes me as an incredibly sad state of affairs.

[lonestar]

A good portion of the people that dislike Fauci now only do because Trump told them to.

I don't think this was pinpointed towards me, but just wanted to be clear that I don't listen to Trump.  My dislike for Fauci is more recent than Trump's disliking of him and goes back to what I said above.  I don't think the guy has any ill intentions, but I think he focuses way too much on basking in the spotlight.  Having said that, I would love to know the truth about his involvement in the Wuhan lab.

I'm with you; my skepticism has NOTHING to do with Trump at all.    It's simply the fact that he's become a lightning rod for each of the sides.  It's science; it's supposed to be independent of ideology.

I honestly feel that's where Fauci is coming from as well. He's a good man, stuck in the most difficult position in ages, being the mouthpiece for a new variant of science that is changing daily, under the most discerning of microscopes, the highly partisan, very lowly science educated American populace. The average American knows dick of the scientific process, yet because of social media, and partisan media like CNN and FOX, have a voice collectively equal to Fauci's.

[cramx3]

I honestly don't know what that makes me—liberal? Conservative? Both? Again, I'm not a registered anything, so I'm really out of my depth here. I'm just a hard-working guy who wants everyone I know to live a long, full life.

We are talking a virus here, it should have NOTHING to do with your political views.  Sadly, we all know that is not the reality though.