Coronavirus Thread v.2

[Grappler]

My larger point is that it's pretty clear that America has decided Covid is no longer a thing and Covid needs to understand that. I used those two examples because 'the media' has been portraying the Red States and knuckle dragging republicans as the reason the Delta variant was allowed to circulate. When the truth is everyone has pretty much decided to say F it and go on with their lives.

To be fair, in order to enter Lollapalooza, you had to pass through three checkpoints.  Each checkpoint verified that you had your original vaccine card, or a photo of it.  If you were not vaccinated, you had to show proof of a negative covid test, either taken on-site or at two locations close to the festival grounds.   600 people were turned back and denied entry on the first day because they did not have that documentation and thought that they could just do whatever the hell they want.

Most people attending Lollapalooza won't be a strain on the hospitals - to me, that's the overarching message.  Vaccinated people can still spread the variant and catch covid, but they aren't going to add to the numbers in the hospital, which is the problem the country is having right now.  Not that life is gong back to normal, but the unvaccinated are still causing strain on hospitals and allowing for virus mutations to persist.

I'd expect the festival to be a bit of a super-spreader event, but it might also show that case numbers can go up, but hospital numbers may not, so the idea of having big events for vaccinated people only actually works.

I take those same exact trains into Chicago for work and the only reason that they were that full is because of the festival.  Only large-scale events (Cubs/Blackhawks victory parades or festivals) get the trains that packed, especially within the last year. 

[Chino]

Eh. Not exactly pretending it's over. You need to pass a test the day of to be allowed on the grounds, and there will be enforcement officials there making sure everything is in within CDC compliance. Not saying I agree with him having the party, but it's not like they're pretending Covid went away. That to me constitutes being careful, as opposed to something like LaLaPalooza.

Agreed. There’s a difference between careful, and careless.  Getting on a train like that unmasked is careless. A limited (by Obama standards) outdoor gathering enforcing physical distancing, vaccination (I’m assuming), and a negative tests sounds like being careful.

I get it...I do. I just wonder what the headline would read were say.....DeSantis or Trump throw a similar event with similar precautions in place. I'd bet my bottom dollar it wouldn't be as accepted as obama's little shin dig is.

I didn't even know it was happening until you mentioned it 

[Grappler]

Also, per the federal mandate, masks are still required on the trains.  But with that many people, it's impossible for conductors to police it.  On a daily, commuter, basis 99% of the people still wear masks.

[cramx3]

Considering what I saw on social media, plenty of people were just breaking into that festival 

Generally I'd say outdoor events like that haven't proved to be much of an issue, but I'm not really certain that's the case with delta for me to confidently say that anymore. 

As for the crowded train, I question how effective masks would even be in that situation considering how tightly packed that is and airflow is likely extremely poor already.  Probably better to still wear one regardless, but if you are going to Lollapalooza, you've basically accepted the risk already.

I'll be going to Guns N Roses on Thursday in a packed stadium (well, it's not close to sold out, but still like 30k people).

We should all purposefully contract this damn thing, then, assuming we can't get it again, just be done with it. (not totally serious, but it did cross my mind...)

The problem is the ~1% that would die from doing this and the overload of the hospitals, but in the end, this is essentially what will happen just spread out over time.  Everyone in this world is going to get exposed to covid.  I feel at this point, it's not about not getting an infection, it's about getting vaccinated so you don't die from the infection and don't overload hospitals.  It's proven to work for that.  I feel we will be living in a world of constant covid exposure and I believe that's why the US is basically acting like covid is not a thing anymore.  We have to move on at some point.  We can argue if that point is now or not, but with a proven vaccine readily available, why should we wait any longer to move on?

[Stadler]

Here's a pic from this past weekends LaLaPalooza in Chicago. I'm sure Corona was too busy to take in a concert though.

That looks like one of those pictures you squint at and you see a stereo image.  Like the cover of that Dave Matthews record. 

Oh and Obama is throwing a 500+ head 60th birthday party for himself in Martha's Vineyard with the Clooney's, Oprah's and Spielberg's of the world but I'm sure it's fine for them to pretend Covid is over....the rest of us should be more careful though?


My larger point is that it's pretty clear that America has decided Covid is no longer a thing and Covid needs to understand that. I used those two examples because 'the media' has been portraying the Red States and knuckle dragging republicans as the reason the Delta variant was allowed to circulate. When the truth is everyone has pretty much decided to say F it and go on with their lives.

Something I've been saying in a roundabout way for a while.  But narratives persevere. 

[emtee]

Our Florida region (14 facilities) are at 106% of ICU capacity and 117% of total capacity. So what was initially feared at the onset of this nightmare has come to fruition in FL.

[lonestar]

That train picture gives me the shivers.

I’m sure the BART looks just like that.

Not sure it's there yet, ridership is still brutally low, they haven't even opened to a full schedule yet. Gotta remember, a massive percentage of their riders are tech nerds who will be working from home for some time to come.


In related news, bay area health officials gonna make an announcement at noon... Here come the mask mandates....

[TAC]

That train picture gives me the shivers.

I’m sure the BART looks just like that.

[DragonAttack]

Our Florida region (14 facilities) are at 106% of ICU capacity and 117% of total capacity. So what was initially feared at the onset of this nightmare has come to fruition in FL.

Meanwhile,  https://miami.cbslocal.com/2021/07/30/ron-desantis-no-school-mask-mandates-protecting-parental-rights/

 

[lonestar]

Here's hoping he freedoms himself right out of a job.

[lonestar]

Lindsay Graham, fully vaccinated, tests positive and is symptomatic. Holy fuck... How many days since he was in the senate? Is there a chance they had their own spreader event there? Fucking delta is no joke.

[hunnus2000]

I feel as though the tide is turning where the unvaccinated are starting to rethink their choices. Unfortunately, someone has to be personally affected before they take action. At least Graham admits that he was vaccinated and would have been sicker had it not been for the vaccine.

Hopefully this spurs more action out of the unvaccinated to get vaccinated.

[cramx3]

I feel as though the tide is turning where the unvaccinated are starting to rethink their choices. Unfortunately, someone has to be personally affected before they take action. At least Graham admits that he was vaccinated and would have been sicker had it not been for the vaccine.

Hopefully this spurs more action out of the unvaccinated to get vaccinated.

The daily vaccination rate is going up in the US.  As much as it sucks for this to be the reason, at least some people are starting to pay attention.

[hunnus2000]

Eh. Not exactly pretending it's over. You need to pass a test the day of to be allowed on the grounds, and there will be enforcement officials there making sure everything is in within CDC compliance. Not saying I agree with him having the party, but it's not like they're pretending Covid went away. That to me constitutes being careful, as opposed to something like LaLaPalooza.

Agreed. There’s a difference between careful, and careless.  Getting on a train like that unmasked is careless. A limited (by Obama standards) outdoor gathering enforcing physical distancing, vaccination (I’m assuming), and a negative tests sounds like being careful.

I get it...I do. I just wonder what the headline would read were say.....DeSantis or Trump throw a similar event with similar precautions in place. I'd bet my bottom dollar it wouldn't be as accepted as obama's little shin dig is.

You are correct, they would be raked over the coals. But we have ample evidence that Obama is at least trying to do it responsibly while we know that the other guys would throw caution to the wind. And deSantis would prolly sign a Governors decree banning masks at the party. 

[lonestar]

Yeah, Obama's event required proof of vaccination and a recent negative covid test, whereas a Trump event would barely require a heartbeat.

[TAC]

Yeah, Obama's event required proof of vaccination and a recent negative covid test, whereas a Trump event would barely require a heartbeat.

...and a checkbook.

No doubt Obama is taking donations for something as well..

[lonestar]

Yeah, Obama's event required proof of vaccination and a recent negative covid test, whereas a Trump event would barely require a heartbeat.

...and a checkbook.

No doubt Obama is taking donations for something as well..

That's one thing both sides have in common...there's always an entrance fee.

[Stadler]

Eh. Not exactly pretending it's over. You need to pass a test the day of to be allowed on the grounds, and there will be enforcement officials there making sure everything is in within CDC compliance. Not saying I agree with him having the party, but it's not like they're pretending Covid went away. That to me constitutes being careful, as opposed to something like LaLaPalooza.

Agreed. There’s a difference between careful, and careless.  Getting on a train like that unmasked is careless. A limited (by Obama standards) outdoor gathering enforcing physical distancing, vaccination (I’m assuming), and a negative tests sounds like being careful.

I get it...I do. I just wonder what the headline would read were say.....DeSantis or Trump throw a similar event with similar precautions in place. I'd bet my bottom dollar it wouldn't be as accepted as obama's little shin dig is.

You are correct, they would be raked over the coals. But we have ample evidence that Obama is at least trying to do it responsibly while we know that the other guys would throw caution to the wind. And deSantis would prolly sign a Governors decree banning masks at the party. 

And yet, let's not forget the HARD DATA - the SCIENCE - that shows that up until the recent surge, the data in Florida was consistent with other regions that had much tighter "restrictions", like California.    Let's not also forget the NY Times - the NY TIMES, not Fox, not CNN - article I posted earlier this week that CLEARLY showed - with hard data, with SCIENCE - that some of the "expected" relationships don't exist like the narrative assumes.  This surge in Florida is no more an indictment of DeSantis (who I am not really a fan of, by the way; my parents and brother live in Florida) than previous surges were indictments of Cuomo, Newsome, or Lamont (our Democrat governor, who in my estimation is doing a PHENOMENAL job as governor of CT, and has my vote as long as he wants the job). 

This idea that the virus follows political lines is embarrassing from people that claim to "believe in science" (I am not referring, directly or indirectly, to any particular person, here or elsewhere; it's just a blanket statement).

[Harmony]

Let's see how DeSantis fares after schools reopen and children start going into the hospital.  Threatening to withhold funding to districts who are trying to do what is right for their communities is an interesting tactic.  I guess time will tell.  I hope children won't be made to pay the price but I suspect they will.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/two-florida-school-districts-drop-mask-mandates-after-desantis-threatened-to-withhold-funding

[lonestar]

I dread the thought of another mutation that becomes more deadly to that demographic.

[Ben_Jamin]

Let's see how DeSantis fares after schools reopen and children start going into the hospital.  Threatening to withhold funding to districts who are trying to do what is right for their communities is an interesting tactic.  I guess time will tell.  I hope children won't be made to pay the price but I suspect they will.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/two-florida-school-districts-drop-mask-mandates-after-desantis-threatened-to-withhold-funding

Our children are already paying the price. This pandemic has affected them the most of all. What they once knew is not what the new children will come to understand. Their perceptions are changing and kids are more susceptible to information so will therefore be easier to accustomed to the changes.


Some of these kids are facing social and mental anxiety because they are not allowed to see anyone. Children need to develop these social skills and need face to face and physical contact for assurance.

I mean just because a child isnt physically paying the price. Mentally they are.

[hunnus2000]

I just found out that a friend of ours step-mom just died of COVID. She was vaccinated but I guess it was a break through case as it attacked her organs (according to his wife). I haven't really tried to get details but he was very close to her. 

At least she tried to do the right thing. And I am reading more and more about regretting not getting the vaccine soon enough. BTW, that same couple lost a good friend to to COVID last year.

I 100% agree to your last post Lonestar........

[Stadler]

Let's see how DeSantis fares after schools reopen and children start going into the hospital.  Threatening to withhold funding to districts who are trying to do what is right for their communities is an interesting tactic.  I guess time will tell.  I hope children won't be made to pay the price but I suspect they will.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/two-florida-school-districts-drop-mask-mandates-after-desantis-threatened-to-withhold-funding

And that's fair; I'm not sticking up for DeSantis.  As I said, I'm not a fan for non-COVID reasons.  But one thing we've seen over the last 18 months is that almost* every "cause" that leads to an "effect" has also NOT led to that effect.   I'm pushing back on the anecdotal.   We've had the same relaxation of restrictions, more or less, here in Connecticut and have NOT seen the surge.  Granted, Florida - with their reliance on the travel industry and the transient nature of many of their residents - have a different dynamic, but they are in the top-half of States when it comes to vaccinations (49.1% of their pop), not that far behind California (53.1%).   Compare that to the top five states, all New England states, that have a vaccination rate in excess of 60%.  (One potential problem:  it's two neighboring states are both in the bottom seven in terms of vaccinations, including Alabama, who is dead last.)


* Vaccines and vaccinations seem to be the one exception.

[Harmony]

Let's see how DeSantis fares after schools reopen and children start going into the hospital.  Threatening to withhold funding to districts who are trying to do what is right for their communities is an interesting tactic.  I guess time will tell.  I hope children won't be made to pay the price but I suspect they will.

https://www.fox13news.com/news/two-florida-school-districts-drop-mask-mandates-after-desantis-threatened-to-withhold-funding

Our children are already paying the price. This pandemic has affected them the most of all. What they once knew is not what the new children will come to understand. Their perceptions are changing and kids are more susceptible to information so will therefore be easier to accustomed to the changes.


Some of these kids are facing social and mental anxiety because they are not allowed to see anyone. Children need to develop these social skills and need face to face and physical contact for assurance.

I mean just because a child isnt physically paying the price. Mentally they are.

And nowhere in my post did I suggest children should not be in school or are not paying a price.

I believe kids need to be in school.  I also believe that doing everything possible to protect them in those environments is important.  Masks, proper ventilation, social distancing, contact tracing if there is an outbreak, among other things to mitigate risk to staff and children.  Especially when the infectivity rates in a particular area are exceedingly high.

[cramx3]

I've seen some people suggest purposely exposing children to the virus to get natural immunity similar to how parents will do so for their kids with chicken pox.  I'm not a parent, I don't know how I feel about that idea nor have an opinion.  I'd generally lean towards just get vaccinated but until that's deemed safe, I'm not really sure forcing an infection is a good idea either. 

[Grappler]

I've seen some people suggest purposely exposing children to the virus to get natural immunity similar to how parents will do so for their kids with chicken pox.  I'm not a parent, I don't know how I feel about that idea nor have an opinion.  I'd generally lean towards just get vaccinated but until that's deemed safe, I'm not really sure forcing an infection is a good idea either.

It's dumb.  I don't know how parents can even entertain a thought like that, with any illness.  I've seen how miserable my kids are when they have a bad cold.  My heart breaks when they get a stomach bug and they're throwing up.  It's the one time I truly feel helpless as a parent - they're too young for cold medicine and I can't do anything about their illness, other than turn on a humidifier and give them some children's tylenol or ibuprofin. 

To purposely expose them to any illness is just stupid.  If it were just my wife and I at home, I'd say to hell with the masks, since we're vaccinated, but since we have a 3 and 6 year old, we're still trying hard to not bring anything home. 

My six year old really wants to be vaccinated for COVID, so as soon as they say that's ok, we'll schedule an appointment for her. 

[Skeever]

Our kid's in daycare because it's not possible for us to take care of him while working from home. I struggle mightily with the idea that maybe we made the wrong choice - one of us should quit our jobs to take care of him and protect him from COVID. But also, at least thus far this thing doesn't seem to be particularly bad when it gets to kids, and since our son pretty much lives with at least minor congestion and respitory symptoms on an ongoing basis, he already has a nebulizer and treatment that can help with that. So I'm not too worried. But also scared as hell. 

[cramx3]

I've seen some people suggest purposely exposing children to the virus to get natural immunity similar to how parents will do so for their kids with chicken pox.  I'm not a parent, I don't know how I feel about that idea nor have an opinion.  I'd generally lean towards just get vaccinated but until that's deemed safe, I'm not really sure forcing an infection is a good idea either.

To purposely expose them to any illness is just stupid.

Not arguing because I'm not really for this with covid, but are you also against doing this for chicken pox?  That's generally been seen to be effective and safe. I don't recall if I was purposely exposed, I'd have to ask my parents. 

[Grappler]

I've seen some people suggest purposely exposing children to the virus to get natural immunity similar to how parents will do so for their kids with chicken pox.  I'm not a parent, I don't know how I feel about that idea nor have an opinion.  I'd generally lean towards just get vaccinated but until that's deemed safe, I'm not really sure forcing an infection is a good idea either.

To purposely expose them to any illness is just stupid.

Not arguing because I'm not really for this with covid, but are you also against doing this for chicken pox?  That's generally been seen to be effective and safe. I don't recall if I was purposely exposed, I'd have to ask my parents.

Yes, I feel the same way about chicken pox.  I had chicken pox when I was in first grade and I remember it sucked and my mom covered me in calamine lotion for a few days.  There's a vaccine for chicken pox now and my kids get it automatically as part of their pediatrician's vaccine schedule.  Plus, if you've had the chicken pox, then you can get shingles later on as an adult, which isn't fun either.

Chicken Pox parties are one of the most moronic things a parent can do - let's purposely expose our kids to a shitty illness because we're anti-vaxxers.   

[cramx3]

I didn't even know there was a vax for chicken pox.

[Ben_Jamin]

I've seen some people suggest purposely exposing children to the virus to get natural immunity similar to how parents will do so for their kids with chicken pox.  I'm not a parent, I don't know how I feel about that idea nor have an opinion.  I'd generally lean towards just get vaccinated but until that's deemed safe, I'm not really sure forcing an infection is a good idea either.

To purposely expose them to any illness is just stupid.

Not arguing because I'm not really for this with covid, but are you also against doing this for chicken pox?  That's generally been seen to be effective and safe. I don't recall if I was purposely exposed, I'd have to ask my parents.

Yes, I feel the same way about chicken pox.  I had chicken pox when I was in first grade and I remember it sucked and my mom covered me in calamine lotion for a few days.  There's a vaccine for chicken pox now and my kids get it automatically as part of their pediatrician's vaccine schedule.  Plus, if you've had the chicken pox, then you can get shingles later on as an adult, which isn't fun either.

Chicken Pox parties are one of the most moronic things a parent can do - let's purposely expose our kids to a shitty illness because we're anti-vaxxers.   

I actually got shingles when I was 7. I still have scars from that. Where the Shingles scars are is a little numb. I got it on my chest by my heart and on the parallel area on my back.

It sucked because I couldn't touch it, and being a kid I would touch it. It was worse when I would sleep. I would leave my chest open and sleep on my back. I think my parents put some ointment on it the doctor prescribed, which soothed the burning. It would mainly burn and be untolerable when the blisters would pop and ooze the pus.

The long term effects of it is that I have those numb areas around the scars.

[SwedishGoose]

I feel as though the tide is turning where the unvaccinated are starting to rethink their choices. Unfortunately, someone has to be personally affected before they take action. At least Graham admits that he was vaccinated and would have been sicker had it not been for the vaccine.

Hopefully this spurs more action out of the unvaccinated to get vaccinated.

Yeah, read an article about this in a swedish newspaper.

They interwiewed vaccinateurs who said that people want to be anonymous when taking the vaccine, even dressing up as someone else....

[Stadler]

I've seen some people suggest purposely exposing children to the virus to get natural immunity similar to how parents will do so for their kids with chicken pox.  I'm not a parent, I don't know how I feel about that idea nor have an opinion.  I'd generally lean towards just get vaccinated but until that's deemed safe, I'm not really sure forcing an infection is a good idea either.

It's dumb.  I don't know how parents can even entertain a thought like that, with any illness.  I've seen how miserable my kids are when they have a bad cold.  My heart breaks when they get a stomach bug and they're throwing up.  It's the one time I truly feel helpless as a parent - they're too young for cold medicine and I can't do anything about their illness, other than turn on a humidifier and give them some children's tylenol or ibuprofin. 

To purposely expose them to any illness is just stupid.  If it were just my wife and I at home, I'd say to hell with the masks, since we're vaccinated, but since we have a 3 and 6 year old, we're still trying hard to not bring anything home. 

My six year old really wants to be vaccinated for COVID, so as soon as they say that's ok, we'll schedule an appointment for her.

I'm not suggesting that it's okay for COVID, or any specific disease, but systematic exposure to toxics and irritants may have lasting immune system benefits. 
Though you are right; there is nothing quite so helpless as the feeling of watching a young child struggle with congestion or pain that they don't know how to deal with.

[Ben_Jamin]

Has anyone seen this...

Since I am unable to comply with what is increasingly becoming an industry mandate - it has recently been decided that I am unsafe to be around, in the studio, and on tour," says Parada. "I mention this because you won€™t be seeing me at these upcoming shows."

"I have no negative feelings towards my band. They're doing what they believe is best for them, while I am doing the same," Parada clarifies.

He then declares "Unequivocally...that I support informed consent - which necessitates choice unburdened by coercion." He adds that he doesn't believe in allowing "those with the most power (government, corporations, organizations, employers) to dictate medical procedures to those with the least power."

Parada asks that people not "dominate, dehumanize and shout down at each other," noting that the vaccine-hesitant population "is not a monolithic group. All voices deserve to be heard."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/offspring-drummer-cant-get-covid-19-vaccine-for-medical-reasons-so-wont-play-at-upcoming-shows/ar-AAMTqa3?fbclid=IwAR0-R-83PTiqPXKRVQ23XDkLISY-rau-VuJhjH0EiLJx14AMzFATwQgGVDU

[hunnus2000]

I feel as though the tide is turning where the unvaccinated are starting to rethink their choices. Unfortunately, someone has to be personally affected before they take action. At least Graham admits that he was vaccinated and would have been sicker had it not been for the vaccine.

Hopefully this spurs more action out of the unvaccinated to get vaccinated.

Yeah, read an article about this in a swedish newspaper.

They interwiewed vaccinateurs who said that people want to be anonymous when taking the vaccine, even dressing up as someone else....

Yeah - that's a real thing here in Missouri. People don't want their spouses to know or other family members to know for fear of either divorce or ostracized from their families.

All I know is if I had a wife who threaten divorce because I am getting a vaccine - then that marriage is over anyway.