Coronavirus Thread v.2

[Ben_Jamin]

*rubs eyes and looks again*

DAVE!!!   


@Ben are you talking about antibody testing or testing for current infection?

It's always good to remember that one can test negative for current infection and be so early in their disease process that they don't have enough virus in them yet to test positive.  And they can still spread it, thinking they are safe.  There also false negatives.

I'm not saying I don't trust testing.  I'm just saying that there is no perfect failsafe measure.

Current infection.

Yup, I know about false positives.

I actually do not mind being tested to enter an event if that's how they want to implement a safe measure for the attendees.

Although, if they do implement a test, which do you think would be better to use?

I'm not sure on the antibody testing if that would be a better way or not?

[Harmony]

Oh for entry.  PCR tests are best and more accurate but you'll likely be offered the rapid test.

*************

Walt Disney Co. is mandating Covid vaccines for US workers.  I'm surprised that is going to fly in Flori-duh.  Didn't Ron ban those or just the vaccine passports?

[TAC]

Disney is its own state.

[wolfking]

Another snap 3 day lockdown here in Brisbane starting later today.  Crazy, I haven't even been following how the latest outbreak even happened up here lol.

[cramx3]

Yeah, those types of numbers and statistics aren't as alarming as they can at first appear. As more and more people become vaccinated a higher proportion of everything will involve people who are vaccinated. It's simple ratios. 6 months from now the Daily Mail (British tabloid) will be (accurately) running headlines that 98% of suicides were among Covid vaccinated people.

What we do know is that people who are vaccinated are far less likely to suffer greatly, and as regards lockdowns, if everyone who can safely be vaccinated gets vaccinated then the likelihood of serious illness overwhelming the capacity of hospitals is much lower. Massachusetts may have a lot of cases now but the daily death count is still tumbling since the vaccines came in:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/massachusetts/

It's not about preventing cases (it looks like we're never going to do this now; this is just a virus we're going to have to live with), it's about preventing deaths and cases so severe that they require hospitalisation.

Yup. I've said a lot of the headlines have been fear mongering and that the vaccines have been working. It's very clear with the data out there.  Yes, it may not work as well as the virus mutates, and yes you still can get sick... but the data so far pretty much shows that almost all very ill and dying people are unvaccinated.

I've had a few close friends being anti covid vax, and I've been pretty much the same here as in my group chat.  Probably harder on them because it's not public.  But one of them got his first shot, and the other finally said he will get it soon. 

[jingle.boy]

It's not about preventing cases (it looks like we're never going to do this now; this is just a virus we're going to have to live with), it's about preventing deaths and cases so severe that they require hospitalisation.

And as Stadler rightly pointed out, the raw numbers aren't as alarming as the SHOCKING headline - 469 COVID cases; 347 people were vax'd; 5 were hospiltalized.  That pretty much tells me the vax is doing it's fucking job.

Massachusetts representin'!

LMAO!!

I've had a few close friends being anti covid vax, and I've been pretty much the same here as in my group chat.  Probably harder on them because it's not public.  But one of them got his first shot, and the other finally said he will get it soon. 

That's refreshing to hear.

[Skeever]

CDC is already hitting back at the media for the way they've run away with the story without providing the proper context or qualifications. And that's nothing new. The media love to run away with half digested information and don't really care about all that as long as it gets them the Doom clicks.

[Stadler]

It's not about preventing cases (it looks like we're never going to do this now; this is just a virus we're going to have to live with), it's about preventing deaths and cases so severe that they require hospitalisation.

I wrote about this a couple days ago; we are not even CLOSE to this line of thinking in America.   Here in Connecticut, the "case" graph shows a surge back in I think it was January, and a surge now; the "death" graph shows a surge back in January (lagging the case surge by a short duration) but NO DEATH SURGE now.   IF the goal is preventing serious ramifications of the virus, we're there right now, but that's not at all reflected in any of the dialogue or communications.

[TAC]

It's not about preventing cases (it looks like we're never going to do this now; this is just a virus we're going to have to live with), it's about preventing deaths and cases so severe that they require hospitalisation.

I wrote about this a couple days ago; we are not even CLOSE to this line of thinking in America.   Here in Connecticut, the "case" graph shows a surge back in I think it was January, and a surge now; the "death" graph shows a surge back in January (lagging the case surge by a short duration) but NO DEATH SURGE now.   IF the goal is preventing serious ramifications of the virus, we're there right now, but that's not at all reflected in any of the dialogue or communications.

I still think it's better to vaccinate as many as possible, and as Cram's friends prove, there's still some wiggle room out there.

[lonestar]

We're expecting full mask mandates here within a week. Two other counties joined LA yesterday.

[gmillerdrake]

So I'm being forced to be the 'bad guy' today....here's the story.

We have friends who the wife is throwing her husband a surprise 40th party today. She finds out yesterday that her youngest who was at a camp all last week was in a group with a kid who tested positive for Corona. They haven't tested their son...but, I told my wife that I wasn't letting our youngest go to the party since he, that boy and all of his cousins would most likely just be together all night. I'm not going to go either.

Thing is she volunteered with her sister to get the house ready for the surprise while the mom has their family out for them to come home to the surprise. I just said me and my youngest aren't going. My other two sons were already not going to go....but, I just don't see risking it when we know that this boy was exposed all week long.

I feel like I'm doing the right thing on one hand.....and on the other I feel like I'm just allowing fear to dictate how I make decisions now?

[lonestar]

Trust your gut dude. Better safe than sorry.

[gmillerdrake]

Trust your gut dude. Better safe than sorry.

This is what I am thinking.

[TAC]

Trust your gut dude. Better safe than sorry.

Definitely. If you’re not comfortable with your youngest going that’s fine. I don’t even consider it as cow towing to fear. I mean COVID or no COVID, you wouldn’t let him play with kids that  were sick anyway.

[Chino]

So I'm being forced to be the 'bad guy' today....here's the story.

We have friends who the wife is throwing her husband a surprise 40th party today. She finds out yesterday that her youngest who was at a camp all last week was in a group with a kid who tested positive for Corona. They haven't tested their son...but, I told my wife that I wasn't letting our youngest go to the party since he, that boy and all of his cousins would most likely just be together all night. I'm not going to go either.

Thing is she volunteered with her sister to get the house ready for the surprise while the mom has their family out for them to come home to the surprise. I just said me and my youngest aren't going. My other two sons were already not going to go....but, I just don't see risking it when we know that this boy was exposed all week long.

I feel like I'm doing the right thing on one hand.....and on the other I feel like I'm just allowing fear to dictate how I make decisions now?

Nah man. You're being a dad. I hope at the very least your wife masks up.

I'm back to wearing a mask in public just in case. At least for a little while until we get a bit more data on what this variant is doing.

[lonestar]

Yeah, I'm back to masking at both jobs and all my 12 step meetings. Really hope they don't shut those down again, a year of zoom meetings can go fuck itself, that shit sucked.

[Chino]

Yeah, I'm back to masking at both jobs and all my 12 step meetings. Really hope they don't shut those down again, a year of zoom meetings can go fuck itself, that shit sucked.

I see no reason why something like an AA meeting could be relocated to a gymnasium or something where everyone could sit like 20' apart while masked up. 

[lonestar]

Yeah, I'm back to masking at both jobs and all my 12 step meetings. Really hope they don't shut those down again, a year of zoom meetings can go fuck itself, that shit sucked.

I see no reason why something like an AA meeting could be relocated to a gymnasium or something where everyone could sit like 20' apart while masked up.

That's more a matter of who will host an aa meeting. Most people won't, that's why we're usually in churches, they're more willing to help and need the extra coin from our rent.

[Cool Chris]

I probably wouldn't go to that party either. But I am also not a fan of adult birthday parties. If it was a kid party, it would be a much harder decision, as those are meaningful memories and important events for a kid.

[jingle.boy]

I probably wouldn't go to that party either. But I am also not a fan of adult birthday parties. If it was a kid party, it would be a much harder decision, as those are meaningful memories and important events for a kid.

Ditto on all points, but especially the bolded.  Plus, do you absolutely 100% know all of the adults are 2-weeks post double vax?  That would be something I'd be just as concerned about to tell you the truth.

FWIW, masking indoors when out in public is still largely mandated here - and we're way past pretty much everywhere in the US when it comes to vaccination rates.  As I said, I fully expect to be masking indoors in public at least until the spring.

[Ben_Jamin]

So I'm being forced to be the 'bad guy' today....here's the story.

We have friends who the wife is throwing her husband a surprise 40th party today. She finds out yesterday that her youngest who was at a camp all last week was in a group with a kid who tested positive for Corona. They haven't tested their son...but, I told my wife that I wasn't letting our youngest go to the party since he, that boy and all of his cousins would most likely just be together all night. I'm not going to go either.

Thing is she volunteered with her sister to get the house ready for the surprise while the mom has their family out for them to come home to the surprise. I just said me and my youngest aren't going. My other two sons were already not going to go....but, I just don't see risking it when we know that this boy was exposed all week long.

I feel like I'm doing the right thing on one hand.....and on the other I feel like I'm just allowing fear to dictate how I make decisions now?

This is just one of many decisions you will have to make being a parent and married.

This decision is one you and your wife should make together. For the main concern of your son that one of you has. If she wants to go, what she could do is mask up.

The issue to is that the data is showing that vaccinated people can still spread the delta variant. That's why the CDC says for vaccinated people to mask up indoors and the reason for possible mask mandates again.

The best solution would be just to not go. But, I can't give you anything more, nor tell you what choice you should make.

I just hope that your decision turns out for the best, and that you and your family are all good.

[emtee]

Ugghh! We broke our previous daily record...which was at the peak of the insanity. 21K new cases. This Delta variant is powerful stuff.

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-health-business-arts-and-entertainment-florida-01fa89e1d9491ab075c5deb689af1ea8?fbclid=IwAR3VWn9lLsphCzlcx2qGRRodYY9zkRYrG1TFI9euXkUqB55GmRZp4bp16d4

[lonestar]

Just fucking crazy...122k new cases yesterday in the US...well on our way to another solid spike, and a lot of unnecessary deaths to go with it.

[Cool Chris]

We should all purposefully contract this damn thing, then, assuming we can't get it again, just be done with it. (not totally serious, but it did cross my mind...)

[jingle.boy]

Ugghh! We broke our previous daily record...which was at the peak of the insanity. 21K new cases. This Delta variant is powerful stuff.

https://apnews.com/article/lifestyle-health-business-arts-and-entertainment-florida-01fa89e1d9491ab075c5deb689af1ea8?fbclid=IwAR3VWn9lLsphCzlcx2qGRRodYY9zkRYrG1TFI9euXkUqB55GmRZp4bp16d4

Just sayin ...

Just have to keep an eye on that Delta variant.  That fucker can/will spread like a Californian wildfire.

A mere 6 weeks ago, there was a lot of 'nothing to worry aboutism'... even here on DTF.     I personally don't think there's any coincidence that it's 4 weeks post July 4th celebrations, and dropping mask mandates.

Now, I'm not totally fear-mongering, because I do firmly believe the vaccine is doing it's job.  Cases should no longer be the primary measurement of how bad things are... though it's the best LEADING indicator we've got.  The more important outcomes we're all trying to avoid/reduce is  hospitalizations/ICU/fatality.  Nobody really cares how many people contract the flu, or get charged with DUI in a given time period, but the fatality statistics (used to) make the news.

[Stadler]

Except no one seems to be noting that while cases are rising, the deaths are not rising in a linear manner.   This source has deaths (as a percentage) rising at only half the rate as cases and hospitalizations at about 2/3 the rate. And that's just one week, and not necessarily indicative of long term trends.

The message is so mixed it's not funny.    I'm on top of this, I understand it and I have a (reasonably) open mind about the data and it's a struggle. I can only imagine if you're at a more polarized point on the continuum.   There is PLENTY of data to support any of the more extreme positions, and PLENTY of data to be ignored when doing so.

[TAC]

The message is so mixed it's not funny.    I'm on top of this, I understand it and I have a (reasonably) open mind about the data and it's a struggle. I can only imagine if you're at a more polarized point on the continuum.   There is PLENTY of data to support any of the more extreme positions, and PLENTY of data to be ignored when doing so.

Totally. 

[Harmony]

We should all purposefully contract this damn thing, then, assuming we can't get it again, just be done with it. (not totally serious, but it did cross my mind...)

For those who are unvaccinated, many ID and PH docs are saying you WILL get it.

“If you have not been vaccinated, and you have not had COVID before, you will get the delta variant,” Giroir argued. “This is so infectious that you will get it.”

Brett Giroir - fmr Trump Covid testing czar

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/565595-former-trump-official-says-just-a-matter-of-time-before-unvaccinated-get

Also in this same article:

He went on to say that while a previous COVID-19 infection may give some natural immunity, it is not clear how long this protection lasts, adding, “The evidence is mounting that even natural immunity will not protect you against delta.”

And while it may seem like a good idea to 'purposefully contract this' disease, I'd spend some time talking to folks who have survived about their experiences in the hospital and/or some long haulers.  Rolling the dice on this one wouldn't be the way I'd choose to go.  Why not just get the jab?

[gmillerdrake]

Here's a pic from this past weekends LaLaPalooza in Chicago. I'm sure Corona was too busy to take in a concert though.



Oh and Obama is throwing a 500+ head 60th birthday party for himself in Martha's Vineyard with the Clooney's, Oprah's and Spielberg's of the world but I'm sure it's fine for them to pretend Covid is over....the rest of us should be more careful though?


My larger point is that it's pretty clear that America has decided Covid is no longer a thing and Covid needs to understand that. I used those two examples because 'the media' has been portraying the Red States and knuckle dragging republicans as the reason the Delta variant was allowed to circulate. When the truth is everyone has pretty much decided to say F it and go on with their lives.

[Chino]

Lot's of those people got there via train as well:
 

Nope. No thank you.

Oh and Obama is throwing a 500+ head 60th birthday party for himself in Martha's Vineyard with the Clooney's, Oprah's and Spielberg's of the world but I'm sure it's fine for them to pretend Covid is over....the rest of us should be more careful though?

Eh. Not exactly pretending it's over. You need to pass a test the day of to be allowed on the grounds, and there will be enforcement officials there making sure everything is in within CDC compliance. Not saying I agree with him having the party, but it's not like they're pretending Covid went away. That to me constitutes being careful, as opposed to something like LaLaPalooza.

[jingle.boy]

Agreed. There’s a difference between careful, and careless.  Getting on a train like that unmasked is careless. A limited (by Obama standards) outdoor gathering enforcing physical distancing, vaccination (I’m assuming), and a negative tests sounds like being careful.

[gmillerdrake]

Eh. Not exactly pretending it's over. You need to pass a test the day of to be allowed on the grounds, and there will be enforcement officials there making sure everything is in within CDC compliance. Not saying I agree with him having the party, but it's not like they're pretending Covid went away. That to me constitutes being careful, as opposed to something like LaLaPalooza.

Agreed. There’s a difference between careful, and careless.  Getting on a train like that unmasked is careless. A limited (by Obama standards) outdoor gathering enforcing physical distancing, vaccination (I’m assuming), and a negative tests sounds like being careful.

I get it...I do. I just wonder what the headline would read were say.....DeSantis or Trump throw a similar event with similar precautions in place. I'd bet my bottom dollar it wouldn't be as accepted as obama's little shin dig is.

[jingle.boy]

WELL OBVIOUSLY!!!

 

[lonestar]

That train picture gives me the shivers.

[jingle.boy]

That train picture gives me the shivers.

I’m sure the BART looks just like that.