Coronavirus Thread v.2

[Ben_Jamin]

How many of those unvaccinated that died, are people that had a heath condition where they couldn't take the vaccine because their Doctor told them not to because it's side effects outweigh the benefits for them.

Probably not too many..

And those are the people who we, as a society, have a responsibility to protect by getting vaccinated ourselves.

About how many people is that?

Enough that they warrant us being mature, banding together, and doing what we can to make sure they survive.

It's so they can enjoy their lives without fear of catching the virus and dying.

It's to give them an ease so they can safely enjoy the many things all humans should be able to enjoy.

But yet, we still do things to others that make it harder for others to enjoy these supposed benefits and comforts of life, their death is just gradual. Gradual killings are less obvious, but still do the same thing as Covid, just slower.

We have since the beginning of time been trying to prevent death. There's reasons for the saying "We are living on borrowed time."
 

[TAC]

This doesn't take into account that on the day of Joe Biden’s alleged inauguration, the World Health Organization (WHO) quietly issued new guidance on the manner in which polymerase chain reaction (PCR) tests were to be conducted and reported.

Is another one of those "spirit of what he's saying" moments?

It's another of those "WTF is he saying" moments.

[darkshade]

I don't think there will be full on lockdowns again because of how economically devastating they are, plus about half of the population has been fully vaccinated.  No, there won't be any national lockdowns or even mask mandates.  There will be "outbreaks" in various regions.  If you want to know where the outbreaks are going to be, just look at the Trump vs Biden election map.  If a state is red, they're going to be having outbreaks, especially in the fall and winter.  If a state is blue, they probably won't be having any major outbreaks.  Just look at where cases are on the rise right now. 


There is a hardcore group, I'd say probably about 1/3 or maybe 1/4 of the general population who are just not going to get vaccinated.  These are the people who will be arguing that the "china virus" is "nothing to be concerned about" and "overblown" and "just like a cold" from their ICU beds in the hospital, while the doctor is explaining why they have to intubate them.  My sister-in-law is works in a hospital and she tells me that practically everyone who is in there now with a Covid-19 infection are the unvaccinated.  Many only realizing in their final moments the horrible mistake they've made.  It's simultaneously sad and infuriating.  Sad because it didn't have to be like this and infuriating because there are still people out there pushing bullshit conspiracy theories and misinformation about the vaccines and it's literally killing people.  A healthy portion of those deaths 100% preventable. 

but what are the average ages of those un-vaccinated on their death beds?

[darkshade]

How many of those unvaccinated that died, are people that had a heath condition where they couldn't take the vaccine because their Doctor told them not to because it's side effects outweigh the benefits for them.

Probably not too many..

That could still be tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people.

[lonestar]

 

[darkshade]

So Biden was allegedly inaugurated? That didn't actually happen?

Video footage from 'official' sources doesn't match with video footage from other sources alleged to be from the same day, like from the news cameramen's phones.
Some footage (from broadcasts) shows a bright sunny day, other footage shows a cold, rainy, dreary day.
Why was he sworn in about 15 minutes before noon? I watched it "live" on TV.
Trump is still President until noon, Inauguration Day.
At the very least, it was recorded in multiple takes on multiple days, because Dementia Joe...
At the most, he's not the duly elected representative of the United States federal government, and why DC is fenced up.

[TAC]

How many of those unvaccinated that died, are people that had a heath condition where they couldn't take the vaccine because their Doctor told them not to because it's side effects outweigh the benefits for them.

Probably not too many..

That could still be tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people.

Hundreds of thousands of people that:
1. Had a health condition that their doctor said it'd be better to not get the vaccine
2. Got Covid
3. Died


Talk about alleged..

[King Postwhore]

So Biden was allegedly inaugurated? That didn't actually happen?

Video footage from 'official' sources doesn't match with video footage from other sources alleged to be from the same day.
At the very least, it was recorded in multiple takes on multiple days, because Dementia Joe...
At the most, he's not the duly elected representative of the United States federal government, and why DC is fenced up.

This is batshit crazy man. 

[TAC]

So Biden was allegedly inaugurated? That didn't actually happen?

Video footage from 'official' sources doesn't match with video footage from other sources alleged to be from the same day.
At the very least, it was recorded in multiple takes on multiple days, because Dementia Joe...
At the most, he's not the duly elected representative of the United States federal government, and why DC is fenced up.

Can you please tell me the St. Louis Blues didn't actually win the Stanley Cup in 2019? That would make me very happy.

[lonestar]

So Biden was allegedly inaugurated? That didn't actually happen?

Video footage from 'official' sources doesn't match with video footage from other sources alleged to be from the same day.
At the very least, it was recorded in multiple takes on multiple days, because Dementia Joe...
At the most, he's not the duly elected representative of the United States federal government, and why DC is fenced up.

Can you please tell me the St. Louis Blues didn't actually win the Stanley Cup in 2019? That would make me very happy.

 

I love you Tim.

[darkshade]

So Biden was allegedly inaugurated? That didn't actually happen?

Video footage from 'official' sources doesn't match with video footage from other sources alleged to be from the same day.
At the very least, it was recorded in multiple takes on multiple days, because Dementia Joe...
At the most, he's not the duly elected representative of the United States federal government, and why DC is fenced up.

This is batshit crazy man.

I tend to believe my lyin' eyes. It's batshit crazy that so many don't see it.

[Adami]

So Biden was allegedly inaugurated? That didn't actually happen?

Video footage from 'official' sources doesn't match with video footage from other sources alleged to be from the same day.
At the very least, it was recorded in multiple takes on multiple days, because Dementia Joe...
At the most, he's not the duly elected representative of the United States federal government, and why DC is fenced up.

Can you please tell me the St. Louis Blues didn't actually win the Stanley Cup in 2019? That would make me very happy.

Would you settle for me saying they allegedly won?

[TAC]

So Biden was allegedly inaugurated? That didn't actually happen?

Video footage from 'official' sources doesn't match with video footage from other sources alleged to be from the same day.
At the very least, it was recorded in multiple takes on multiple days, because Dementia Joe...
At the most, he's not the duly elected representative of the United States federal government, and why DC is fenced up.

Can you please tell me the St. Louis Blues didn't actually win the Stanley Cup in 2019? That would make me very happy.

Would you settle for me saying they allegedly won?

I'd allegedly settle for that.

[darkshade]

This stuff is out there, if it can easily be debunked, then debunk it.

[darkshade]

How many of those unvaccinated that died, are people that had a heath condition where they couldn't take the vaccine because their Doctor told them not to because it's side effects outweigh the benefits for them.

Probably not too many..

That could still be tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people.

Hundreds of thousands of people that:
1. Had a health condition that their doctor said it'd be better to not get the vaccine
2. Got Covid
3. Died


Talk about alleged..

Hundreds of thousands of people is "not that many" when you consider the world population of almost 8 billion humans.

[darkshade]

So Biden was allegedly inaugurated? That didn't actually happen?

Video footage from 'official' sources doesn't match with video footage from other sources alleged to be from the same day, like from the news cameramen's phones.
Some footage (from broadcasts) shows a bright sunny day, other footage shows a cold, rainy, dreary day.
Why was he sworn in about 15 minutes before noon? I watched it "live" on TV.
Trump is still President until noon, Inauguration Day.
At the very least, it was recorded in multiple takes on multiple days, because Dementia Joe...
At the most, he's not the duly elected representative of the United States federal government, and why DC is fenced up.

Let's keep focused on that instead of what the WHO did on Jan. 20

[lonestar]

This stuff is out there, if it can easily be debunked, then debunk it.

[King Postwhore]

So Biden was allegedly inaugurated? That didn't actually happen?

Video footage from 'official' sources doesn't match with video footage from other sources alleged to be from the same day.
At the very least, it was recorded in multiple takes on multiple days, because Dementia Joe...
At the most, he's not the duly elected representative of the United States federal government, and why DC is fenced up.

This is batshit crazy man.

I tend to believe my lyin' eyes. It's batshit crazy that so many don't see it.

The only think deceiving you is yourself.

[TAC]

How many of those unvaccinated that died, are people that had a heath condition where they couldn't take the vaccine because their Doctor told them not to because it's side effects outweigh the benefits for them.

Probably not too many..

That could still be tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people.

Hundreds of thousands of people that:
1. Had a health condition that their doctor said it'd be better to not get the vaccine
2. Got Covid
3. Died


Talk about alleged..

Hundreds of thousands of people is "not that many" when you consider the world population of almost 8 billion humans.

Well there's been 4 million Covid deaths. Lets say the "hundreds of thousands" equals what..300,000 people.

Are you telling us that 7.5% of all Covid Deaths were due to people's doctors telling them NOT to get vaccinated because of the risks? C'mon bro. Don't make me use the J-Phone and call on J-Boy!

[wolfking]

So Biden was allegedly inaugurated? That didn't actually happen?

Video footage from 'official' sources doesn't match with video footage from other sources alleged to be from the same day, like from the news cameramen's phones.
Some footage (from broadcasts) shows a bright sunny day, other footage shows a cold, rainy, dreary day.
Why was he sworn in about 15 minutes before noon? I watched it "live" on TV.
Trump is still President until noon, Inauguration Day.
At the very least, it was recorded in multiple takes on multiple days, because Dementia Joe...
At the most, he's not the duly elected representative of the United States federal government, and why DC is fenced up.

Dude, I joined the discussion yesterday and haven't followed the thread at all due to reasons I posted on the lack of affect the virus has on me and thought perhaps maybe you had been copping it a bit unfairly from everyone from maybe from your controversial views.  A couple of things yesterday you said I found interesting I'll admit but dude, WTF?  Seriously?!

[wolfking]

How many of those unvaccinated that died, are people that had a heath condition where they couldn't take the vaccine because their Doctor told them not to because it's side effects outweigh the benefits for them.

Probably not too many..

That could still be tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of people.

Hundreds of thousands of people that:
1. Had a health condition that their doctor said it'd be better to not get the vaccine
2. Got Covid
3. Died


Talk about alleged..

Hundreds of thousands of people is "not that many" when you consider the world population of almost 8 billion humans.

Well there's been 4 million Covid deaths. Lets say the "hundreds of thousands" equals what..300,000 people.

Are you telling us that 7.5% of all Covid Deaths were due to people's doctors telling them NOT to get vaccinated because of the risks? C'mon bro. Don't make me use the J-Phone and call on J-Boy!

Yeah, I'm opened minded on both sides here but that's just madness.

[jingle.boy]

I feel like I just stepped into an attempted recreation at Who's on First?  But not a funny one.  More like a



mixed with



and a side of

This doesn't take into account that on the day of Joe Biden’s alleged inauguration, the World Health Organization (WHO) quietly issued new guidance on the manner in which polymerase chain reaction (PCR) tests were to be conducted and reported.

Is another one of those "spirit of what he's saying" moments?

Depends.  "Alleged inauguration" is pretty indefensible, and using that term says a lot that is unflattering about Darkshade.  But if the point to be discussed is what the WHO did, deflecting that to fixate on how silly "alleged inauguration" is says more about the person arguing with Darkshade than it does about him. 

If the point to be discussed is what the WHO did* (which, I'm still unclear what the fuck that is and why it's a problem - guess I haven't done enough of 'my own research'), then why does someone need to lead into that topic of discussion with "alleged inauguration"?

I find it strange that someone routinely looks for some kind of gem in a massive steaming pile of shit.

*Which Darkshade DOESN'T discuss, just throws out some random comment that is absolutely meaningless in and of itself. 

BTW...  I'm kinda surprised darkshade didn't get a warning for taking a non P/R thread into P/R territory.  I would've thought that would be a violation of Rule 13.

[XJDenton]

I'll be honest, I think there's a few members who have at least been skirting close to P/R territory (myself, perhaps, included), which is perhaps not unexpected since the response to Corona is inherently political, so I might have been a bit more lax than I might have been in other threads. Needless to say however that the suggestion of  Biden's inauguration being fake is well over that line.

So given that, this is now a formal reminder to all members that political stuff should be taken to P/R. Violations from this point on shall result in warnings and temp bans should they continue.

[jingle.boy]

WASHINGTON — The COVID-19 curve in the U.S. is rising again after months of decline, with the number of new cases per day doubling over the past three weeks, driven by the fast-spreading delta variant, lagging vaccination rates and Fourth of July gatherings.

Confirmed infections climbed to an average of about 23,600 a day on Monday, up from 11,300 on June 23, according to Johns Hopkins University data. And all but two states — Maine and South Dakota — reported that case numbers have gone up over the past two weeks.

Source

And this

Health care workers in southwest Missouri are sounding the alarm over a wave of young, unvaccinated COVID-19 patients who are now filling hospital beds.

Leanne Handle, an assistant nurse manager of a medical surgical COVID-19 unit at CoxHealth in Springfield, Missouri, said she and her staff have seen the patient population over the past year go from elderly people who are immunocompromised or have multiple other conditions to, more recently, younger individuals who "don't think COVID is real" and haven't been vaccinated against the disease.

"Right now, our average patient population is anywhere from 30 to 55 [years old]. We have seen patients as young as 18," Handle told ABC News in a self-filmed video diary on Tuesday. "I cannot speak to the pediatric population, as our unit doesn't take care of them."

"So, what we're seeing now are the patients who are coming in who don't think that they're going to get sick from it, who aren't mentally prepared to make life and death decisions of do they want to be intubated, do you want CPR if your heart should stop," she added. "We have very few patients who have been admitted that have been vaccinated. So it has been proven to keep you at least out of the hospital, and from severe disease."

Handle also noted a "scary trend" among younger patients with the spread of the so-called delta variant, a highly contagious strain of the virus that was first identified in India and has since been detected in more than 80 countries around the world as well as dozens of U.S. states, including Missouri.

"With the new variant in our area, these patients are getting sicker quicker," she said. "They are progressing through this spectrum very, very quickly."

Source

The Delta variant is no joke, folks.

[XJDenton]

Reminder for anyone who has the urge to point out the absolute numbers are relatively small atm:

[MirrorMask]

XKCD is always on point.

[Skeever]

TO DARKSHADE

I still want to see you answer a question on something that seems to be at the center of your unwillingness to consider different restrictions and protocols.

IF we agree that COVID only is really serious for a minority of people, and fatal for a minority of that minority (and I don't agree, BTW, because that is oversimplifying a ton of complications that arise from the rate of spread, ability to treat, etc... but I will pretend to agree with this for conversation's sake) than what are the disabled entitled to expect from their nation? What does darkshade believe would have been appropriate, if we all agree that here's a virus going around killing the old at immunodeficient at unprecedented rates?

You are very concerned apparently about "totalitarianism". OK. So why are you OK with the response to the pandemic being totally organized around catering to the needs of the majority?

[hunnus2000]

WASHINGTON — The COVID-19 curve in the U.S. is rising again after months of decline, with the number of new cases per day doubling over the past three weeks, driven by the fast-spreading delta variant, lagging vaccination rates and Fourth of July gatherings.

Confirmed infections climbed to an average of about 23,600 a day on Monday, up from 11,300 on June 23, according to Johns Hopkins University data. And all but two states — Maine and South Dakota — reported that case numbers have gone up over the past two weeks.

Source

And this

Health care workers in southwest Missouri are sounding the alarm over a wave of young, unvaccinated COVID-19 patients who are now filling hospital beds.

Leanne Handle, an assistant nurse manager of a medical surgical COVID-19 unit at CoxHealth in Springfield, Missouri, said she and her staff have seen the patient population over the past year go from elderly people who are immunocompromised or have multiple other conditions to, more recently, younger individuals who "don't think COVID is real" and haven't been vaccinated against the disease.

"Right now, our average patient population is anywhere from 30 to 55 [years old]. We have seen patients as young as 18," Handle told ABC News in a self-filmed video diary on Tuesday. "I cannot speak to the pediatric population, as our unit doesn't take care of them."

"So, what we're seeing now are the patients who are coming in who don't think that they're going to get sick from it, who aren't mentally prepared to make life and death decisions of do they want to be intubated, do you want CPR if your heart should stop," she added. "We have very few patients who have been admitted that have been vaccinated. So it has been proven to keep you at least out of the hospital, and from severe disease."

Handle also noted a "scary trend" among younger patients with the spread of the so-called delta variant, a highly contagious strain of the virus that was first identified in India and has since been detected in more than 80 countries around the world as well as dozens of U.S. states, including Missouri.

"With the new variant in our area, these patients are getting sicker quicker," she said. "They are progressing through this spectrum very, very quickly."

Source

The Delta variant is no joke, folks.

To further drive home the point - https://www.lakeregional.com/lettertocommunity

This is not and never has been a civil liberty issue this is and always has been a public health issue.

[Stadler]

How many of those unvaccinated that died, are people that had a heath condition where they couldn't take the vaccine because their Doctor told them not to because it's side effects outweigh the benefits for them.

Probably not too many..

And those are the people who we, as a society, have a responsibility to protect by getting vaccinated ourselves.

About how many people is that?

Enough that they warrant us being mature, banding together, and doing what we can to make sure they survive.

For the record, I agree with that 100%, but the devil is in the details.   

[XJDenton]

XKCD is always on point.

This one was in fact not from xkcd, but from someone who aimed to emulate the style.

[Stadler]

TO DARKSHADE

I still want to see you answer a question on something that seems to be at the center of your unwillingness to consider different restrictions and protocols.

IF we agree that COVID only is really serious for a minority of people, and fatal for a minority of that minority (and I don't agree, BTW, because that is oversimplifying a ton of complications that arise from the rate of spread, ability to treat, etc... but I will pretend to agree with this for conversation's sake) than what are the disabled entitled to expect from their nation? What does darkshade believe would have been appropriate, if we all agree that here's a virus going around killing the old at immunodeficient at unprecedented rates?

You are very concerned apparently about "totalitarianism". OK. So why are you OK with the response to the pandemic being totally organized around catering to the needs of the majority?

Even though I do believe that Joe Biden was rightfully inaugurated and is our legitimate, rightful President, since I do tend to see Darkshade's point on the question presented above, I will weigh in:   full disclosure, and full, unbiased information as well as the resources for both sides of the discussion to make as best a decision as they can: for those that want the vaccine, make it as available as possible (vaccine centers, door-to-door, pamphlets on the efficacy of the vaccines to the best of our current knowledge), and for those that are susceptible, making PPE available and providing information on alternate means of doing the day-to-day that minimizes exposure.  If the people in the latter group are susceptible, then vaccines are only part of a mitigation strategy.  My father is in this group (he suffers from a chronic immuno-compromising condition); he's been vaccinated, as has my mom, but the work doesn't end there.  We get groceries delivered; we make sure that any service people that come to the condo are met by others, or are socially distanced.   My dad is forgetful, let's say, so it's not perfect, but it is what it is.   This is one of a long line of risks that my dad has had to endure in his life (he's been basically "handicapped" since I was an adolescent). 

[Stadler]

To further drive home the point - https://www.lakeregional.com/lettertocommunity

This is not and never has been a civil liberty issue this is and always has been a public health issue.

Unfortunately the two are indelibly related.  Remember the discussions about "The Patriot Act".

I like that response, though.  Clear, decisive information, and a strong suggestion as to a (or perhaps, the best) path forward.   I think that's the right response, the right balance.

[King Postwhore]

TO DARKSHADE

I still want to see you answer a question on something that seems to be at the center of your unwillingness to consider different restrictions and protocols.

IF we agree that COVID only is really serious for a minority of people, and fatal for a minority of that minority (and I don't agree, BTW, because that is oversimplifying a ton of complications that arise from the rate of spread, ability to treat, etc... but I will pretend to agree with this for conversation's sake) than what are the disabled entitled to expect from their nation? What does darkshade believe would have been appropriate, if we all agree that here's a virus going around killing the old at immunodeficient at unprecedented rates?

You are very concerned apparently about "totalitarianism". OK. So why are you OK with the response to the pandemic being totally organized around catering to the needs of the majority?

Even though I do believe that Joe Biden was rightfully inaugurated and is our legitimate, rightful President, since I do tend to see Darkshade's point on the question presented above, I will weigh in:   full disclosure, and full, unbiased information as well as the resources for both sides of the discussion to make as best a decision as they can: for those that want the vaccine, make it as available as possible (vaccine centers, door-to-door, pamphlets on the efficacy of the vaccines to the best of our current knowledge), and for those that are susceptible, making PPE available and providing information on alternate means of doing the day-to-day that minimizes exposure.  If the people in the latter group are susceptible, then vaccines are only part of a mitigation strategy.  My father is in this group (he suffers from a chronic immuno-compromising condition); he's been vaccinated, as has my mom, but the work doesn't end there.  We get groceries delivered; we make sure that any service people that come to the condo are met by others, or are socially distanced.   My dad is forgetful, let's say, so it's not perfect, but it is what it is.   This is one of a long line of risks that my dad has had to endure in his life (he's been basically "handicapped" since I was an adolescent).

The difference between you and darkshade Stads is the thoughtfulness of others the virus could affect.    Even though you think it will not affect you as much as others, you still take precautions for other more susceptible.  You are being selfless.

[Stadler]

TO DARKSHADE

I still want to see you answer a question on something that seems to be at the center of your unwillingness to consider different restrictions and protocols.

IF we agree that COVID only is really serious for a minority of people, and fatal for a minority of that minority (and I don't agree, BTW, because that is oversimplifying a ton of complications that arise from the rate of spread, ability to treat, etc... but I will pretend to agree with this for conversation's sake) than what are the disabled entitled to expect from their nation? What does darkshade believe would have been appropriate, if we all agree that here's a virus going around killing the old at immunodeficient at unprecedented rates?

You are very concerned apparently about "totalitarianism". OK. So why are you OK with the response to the pandemic being totally organized around catering to the needs of the majority?

Even though I do believe that Joe Biden was rightfully inaugurated and is our legitimate, rightful President, since I do tend to see Darkshade's point on the question presented above, I will weigh in:   full disclosure, and full, unbiased information as well as the resources for both sides of the discussion to make as best a decision as they can: for those that want the vaccine, make it as available as possible (vaccine centers, door-to-door, pamphlets on the efficacy of the vaccines to the best of our current knowledge), and for those that are susceptible, making PPE available and providing information on alternate means of doing the day-to-day that minimizes exposure.  If the people in the latter group are susceptible, then vaccines are only part of a mitigation strategy.  My father is in this group (he suffers from a chronic immuno-compromising condition); he's been vaccinated, as has my mom, but the work doesn't end there.  We get groceries delivered; we make sure that any service people that come to the condo are met by others, or are socially distanced.   My dad is forgetful, let's say, so it's not perfect, but it is what it is.   This is one of a long line of risks that my dad has had to endure in his life (he's been basically "handicapped" since I was an adolescent).

The difference between you and darkshade Stads is the thoughtfulness of others the virus could affect.    Even though you think it will not affect you as much as others, you still take precautions for other more susceptible.  You are being selfless.

Try to; not perfect, but I mask up until it's clear I don't have to, and I social distance (that's not a problem; I'm not a huge "invade your personal space" guy). 

[hunnus2000]

To further drive home the point - https://www.lakeregional.com/lettertocommunity

This is not and never has been a civil liberty issue this is and always has been a public health issue.

Unfortunately the two are indelibly related.  Remember the discussions about "The Patriot Act".

I like that response, though.  Clear, decisive information, and a strong suggestion as to a (or perhaps, the best) path forward.   I think that's the right response, the right balance.

One of the bigger mistakes the previous administration made at the outset  of the Pandemic (and they made plenty) was framing COVID as personal liberties issue. From the stay at home orders to mask wearing it was all about your civil liberties.
Maybe if the message had been about public health and civil duties from the very beginning we could have been in a better position where vaccinations rates could be higher.