Author Topic: Coronavirus Thread v.2  (Read 194749 times)

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Online Chino

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2021, 12:07:27 PM »
Are people experiencing others who are lying about receiving the vaccine?   I'm not sure how we would really know; I know for me, far more have gotten the vaccine than are saying "I'm going to wait", but I haven't been checking cards (I do carry mine with me).

I know a lady who got her first shot and intentionally let her second one lapse. She tells people she's fully vaxxed.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2021, 12:19:28 PM »
Are people experiencing others who are lying about receiving the vaccine?   I'm not sure how we would really know; I know for me, far more have gotten the vaccine than are saying "I'm going to wait", but I haven't been checking cards (I do carry mine with me).

Not really. I mean.....the stats that I've seen say Missouri is 53% vaccinated and our county is 58% vaccinated.....but, I rarely see anyone wearing a mask anywhere anymore. So....someone is lying  :lol   

Saw that the past week only 6k new cases....I think that with numbers like that and the fact they're staying 'low' like that.....you're going to have a hard time getting people to buy back in to any type of mandates or anything like that. And, if you're not vaccinated yet, you're probably not going to get vaccinated anyway.

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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2021, 01:56:55 PM »
Ran out of toilet paper and started using lettuce leaves. Today was just the tip of the iceberg, tomorrow romaines to be seen.   ;)

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2021, 03:04:41 PM »
Are people experiencing others who are lying about receiving the vaccine?   I'm not sure how we would really know; I know for me, far more have gotten the vaccine than are saying "I'm going to wait", but I haven't been checking cards (I do carry mine with me).

Not really. I mean.....the stats that I've seen say Missouri is 53% vaccinated and our county is 58% vaccinated.....but, I rarely see anyone wearing a mask anywhere anymore. So....someone is lying  :lol   

Saw that the past week only 6k new cases....I think that with numbers like that and the fact they're staying 'low' like that.....you're going to have a hard time getting people to buy back in to any type of mandates or anything like that. And, if you're not vaccinated yet, you're probably not going to get vaccinated anyway.

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Offline Harmony

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2021, 08:52:34 AM »
Are people experiencing others who are lying about receiving the vaccine?   I'm not sure how we would really know; I know for me, far more have gotten the vaccine than are saying "I'm going to wait", but I haven't been checking cards (I do carry mine with me).

I know a lady who got her first shot and intentionally let her second one lapse. She tells people she's fully vaxxed.

You know, if she had a mild case of Covid previously then getting one shot is probably sufficient and she is fully vaxxed.

https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2021/april/penn-study-suggests-those-who-had-covid19-may-only-need-one-vaccine-dose
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Offline Tomislav95

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2021, 11:04:19 AM »
I'm interested in what they told you about time to maximum safety from 2nd shot? I remember everyone talking about 2 weeks but I got vaccinated yesterday and it says it's a week after. I mean, I don't care because I scheduled (seaside) vacation for only a few days after my 2nd :lol
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2021, 11:29:22 AM »
I'm interested in what they told you about time to maximum safety from 2nd shot? I remember everyone talking about 2 weeks but I got vaccinated yesterday and it says it's a week after. I mean, I don't care because I scheduled (seaside) vacation for only a few days after my 2nd :lol

I was told by the people who gave me the J&J shot that you are good after 1 week, but I read it's really 2 weeks to be considered "fully vaxxed" and after 3 weeks is when you are really fully settled with max protection. 

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2021, 11:39:29 AM »
One other thing that happens with the shot (I'm only referring to the mRNA vaccine) is that it it stays around long enough to teach your system how to fight the virus and then it exits the body. I think that's the main reason for the wait between the first shot and after the second shot.

Here is an excellent article regarding the promising use of mRNA vaccines:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/06/01/health/mrna-vaccines-covid-future/index.html

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2021, 12:37:43 PM »
I'm interested in what they told you about time to maximum safety from 2nd shot? I remember everyone talking about 2 weeks but I got vaccinated yesterday and it says it's a week after. I mean, I don't care because I scheduled (seaside) vacation for only a few days after my 2nd :lol

It depends on what shot you get.  I don't remember the exact days, but the Moderna shot had a minimum gap from 1st to 2nd (I want to say 24 days) and a maximum gap (I want to say 6 weeks).   They are not the same; I think the minimum time is to allow the first shot to trigger the immune system (else it was like getting just one shot), and the maximum time was more about "we haven't studied it this long yet" and so may not be anything more than a precaution.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2021, 01:03:16 PM »
I had the Pfizer vaccine, and was told I would be considered "fully vaccinated" around 2 weeks after my second shot.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2021, 01:20:29 PM »
Illinois will be entering their Phase 5 / Full Vaccination stage next Friday.  That means the state is fully open again for all businesses.   I remember seeing the governor's stages last year and thinking how far off we were from having a vaccine.  Counties were bouncing between Stage 1 and 2 lockdowns and restrictions throughout the fall of 2020. 

It's really weird to know that I won't have to wear a mask in a week, unless mandated by federal/state/local guidelines (i.e. public transportation, etc.). 

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2021, 06:37:29 AM »
Are people experiencing others who are lying about receiving the vaccine?   I'm not sure how we would really know; I know for me, far more have gotten the vaccine than are saying "I'm going to wait", but I haven't been checking cards (I do carry mine with me).

We were at a family gathering a couple of weeks ago and one of my dad's cousins was telling us (with a smug look and tone) that "he identifies as vaccinated". He had it once (was in the hospital for five days), and so now doesn't think he needs to be vaccinated. We told him about one of the employees at my dad's restaurant getting it early on, and then six months later getting it again and having it much worse the second time, didn't really seem to move the needle. He also said that he had already procured fake vaccination cards for his kids so they could go back to school in person in the fall because he doesn't think kids should have to get the vaccine.

It's the latter bit that particularly pisses me off. Anybody in the medical field who would forge evidence of vaccination should be at the very least barred from the industry for life, and I wouldn't mind if they all went to jail.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2021, 07:00:29 AM »
Are people experiencing others who are lying about receiving the vaccine?   I'm not sure how we would really know; I know for me, far more have gotten the vaccine than are saying "I'm going to wait", but I haven't been checking cards (I do carry mine with me).

We were at a family gathering a couple of weeks ago and one of my dad's cousins was telling us (with a smug look and tone) that "he identifies as vaccinated". He had it once (was in the hospital for five days), and so now doesn't think he needs to be vaccinated. We told him about one of the employees at my dad's restaurant getting it early on, and then six months later getting it again and having it much worse the second time, didn't really seem to move the needle. He also said that he had already procured fake vaccination cards for his kids so they could go back to school in person in the fall because he doesn't think kids should have to get the vaccine.

It's the latter bit that particularly pisses me off. Anybody in the medical field who would forge evidence of vaccination should be at the very least barred from the industry for life, and I wouldn't mind if they all went to jail.

And it's examples like this why the US will NEVER achieve 'herd immunity', and we'll still be in this global pandemic for at least 2-3 more years.  There's lots of other reasons, but this is one of them. Antibodies from having contracted a disease are weaker and not as long lasting as vaccine effectiveness - oh, not to mention that without a vaccine, people are absolutely vulnerable to the variant strains.

Case in point, Manaus in the Amazon.  TL;DR version - outbreak early in the pandemic with well over 50% of the region contracting COVID and 350 deaths; new outbreak in January .... 1300+ deaths in January alone.

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Pervasive was the now demonstrably false notion that Manaus' massive first wave of Covid-19 reached enough of the population to create herd immunity.

Attitudes like your father's cousin are what give fear and worry that a "US variant" is very much possible, if not likely.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2021, 05:08:05 AM »
Today is the day! first dose for me  :metal

Fingers crossed that I won't get any reactions or spend three days with fever or headache  :D
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2021, 07:19:27 AM »
Are people experiencing others who are lying about receiving the vaccine?   I'm not sure how we would really know; I know for me, far more have gotten the vaccine than are saying "I'm going to wait", but I haven't been checking cards (I do carry mine with me).

I have received 100% vaccination status from the FDA approved vaccine.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #50 on: June 06, 2021, 11:37:48 AM »
"he identifies as vaccinated".

 :lol

He also said that he had already procured fake vaccination cards...

It's the latter bit that particularly pisses me off. Anybody in the medical field who would forge evidence of vaccination should be at the very least barred from the industry for life, and I wouldn't mind if they all went to jail.

I got a 3x5-ish piece of paper that has some handwritten stuff on it (dates, locations, vaccine types), some of which wasn't done by anyone in the medical field. If this is my "official vaccination card" it is the least official thing I have ever owned.

I would assume falsifying medical records is already a punishable offense, I am just not sure what constitutes "medical records" when it comes to Covid and its associated vaccines.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #51 on: June 06, 2021, 01:06:15 PM »
Got my Moderna shot today!

Damn, the arm hurts quite a bit. It's the hurt of when you get hit on it and then the bruise forms, it's not that I'm suffering, but almost every moment of the arm hurts in that "ouch, I got hit there, don't touch the bruise" way.

Hoping I won't develop a fever tonight, so far so good, I'm lucid and I'm not tired.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2021, 07:22:44 PM »
Has anyone actually encountered a situation where they needed proof of vaccination? No one's ever asked me to show proof. I think most companies are going to stay well clear of going down that rabbit hole, and for good reason IMO.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #53 on: June 06, 2021, 07:24:56 PM »
I've yet to be asked

And yesterday I went to a beer and music festival, outdoors with a few thousand people but there was a mosh pit and it was awesome. Not a mask to be seen by anyone. Like covid never existed... except when using Uber

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #54 on: June 06, 2021, 07:27:00 PM »
I've yet to be asked

And yesterday I went to a beer and music festival, outdoors with a few thousand people but there was a mosh pit and it was awesome. Not a mask to be seen by anyone. Like covid never existed... except when using Uber
I went to an outdoor event a couple weekends ago with 10,000 people. Maybe 5% had masks apart from workers. Though eating and drinking was kind of the point of the event, so it would have been difficult to wear one. It felt really nice.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #55 on: June 06, 2021, 07:36:52 PM »
Has anyone actually encountered a situation where they needed proof of vaccination? No one's ever asked me to show proof. I think most companies are going to stay well clear of going down that rabbit hole, and for good reason IMO.

The electrical contractor I work for is having everyone answer a survey question on their online payroll account, since some jobsites are considering mandating vaccinations. They said it was 100% voluntary to answer the survey, but stated plainly that if this becomes the norm, not getting vaccinated can impact your ability to qualify for a job.

I'm fully vaccinated and answered as such, but when opening up the survey, there was an option to upload supporting documentation. It wasn't required to complete, so I didn't provide it, but I'm curious if that will be required once I move on to the next jobsite.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #56 on: June 07, 2021, 06:51:09 AM »
"he identifies as vaccinated".

 :lol

He also said that he had already procured fake vaccination cards...

It's the latter bit that particularly pisses me off. Anybody in the medical field who would forge evidence of vaccination should be at the very least barred from the industry for life, and I wouldn't mind if they all went to jail.

I got a 3x5-ish piece of paper that has some handwritten stuff on it (dates, locations, vaccine types), some of which wasn't done by anyone in the medical field. If this is my "official vaccination card" it is the least official thing I have ever owned.

I would assume falsifying medical records is already a punishable offense, I am just not sure what constitutes "medical records" when it comes to Covid and its associated vaccines.

But - and not my area of legal expertise - I would question whether there's any real duty to a bartender, or doorman, or greeter at Wal-mart.  For there to be a problem with "falsification", there first has to be a duty to tell the truth. 

And I'm just throwing the idea out there...   what does it matter if that person or persons "identifies as vaccinated"?   I'm vaccinated, my kid is vaccinated.   There are no guarantees in our life, and to expect guarantees is to be sorely and completely disappointed.   I did my part - I tended my garden.   The load on the hospitals is now manageable.   If that person wants to roll the dice with his/her health, who am I to say anything about that?   I know, I know "he's harming me", but so what?  People harm me every friggin' day in one form or another, and no one cares, in fact, in some cases, they celebrate it.  It's up to me to minimize my harm, not everyone else.

I'm not saying they are right, I'm saying that I don't think I can or should absorb the stress of worrying about something I cannot control, and perhaps, maybe, SHOULDN'T control.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #57 on: June 07, 2021, 07:06:45 AM »
If a person wants to roll the dice with drinking before 21, we still penalize fake IDs :P

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #58 on: June 07, 2021, 07:38:53 AM »
If a person wants to roll the dice with drinking before 21, we still penalize fake IDs :P

Not back in the day when my parents were teens. It was easier to do this. Now, the only reason why, here in my state, it's hard to get an ID wasn't because of Underage drinking and kids getting fake ID's, it was the illegal immigrants getting ID's that made our legislatures come up with a way to make it harder for them to get an ID, well a Real ID anyways. They also, made the penalties for serving/distributing to an underage person, or if caught making fake IDs, much harsher.

I could even argue, the state has purposes and reasons for doing things. If they really cared about our health and really were concerned, and were adamant about it, they'd do exactly what they're doing with Covid-19 for these other health related ways that people can harm my health. Going to the extremes and lengths to make sure people are healthy. People won't like it, and in a communist country, the people have no choice, as the state knows what's best for it's people and the state makes decision for it's people, the people have no choice or say in the matter at all, that's how China's Society is ran...

We in The United States of America, have a constitution that guarantees it's citizens rights, listed in the Bill of Rights.

First and foremost we, as a country, all must abide by this constitution. Only, Indigenous Peoples of America had to be forced to adopt this policy. Which in fact the constitution was based on an Indigenous constitution.

Stadler makes a great point. Okay, why are you worried about what I do? Are you not being a bit too nosey, up in my business? What are you doing to better yourself, if you are so concerned and worried about me?

This is exactly what I mean by being Self-Dependant and Self-Reliant. Don't be worrying about what "The Other" does. First and foremost, you should be worrying and caring about yourself first. Because people give advice all the time, it's up to that person receiving the advice whether they'll take it to heart and actually act upon it. Most don't even take the advice of their doctor, and in fact it's their own consequences for their choices, If they ignored the doctors advice telling them to stop smoking, eating greasy foods, sugary drinks, and to exercise more and eat a better diet. Does that person do it?No. Then they'll end up blaming "The Other" because they are now susceptible to a disease Pandemic. It's a persons Self-Responsibility to listen to their doctors advice, so they won't end up being susceptible. It's not my fault, or societies fault, I am not in control of ones health or body. Being Self-Dependant and being Self-Responsible, means holding accountability for yourself and your decision, and the consequences involved in those decisions. You should be making these choices and decisions with careful thought.

Which leads to this question. Did people really get the vaccine for their health? Or because they just wanted to get back to the comforts of life and their daily routines?


Actions speak louder than words. And you know what, I question peoples actions all the time. Because they speak about things, but then end up not acting upon it. Like how some preach words, but don't end up living what they preach, example Catholism/Christians, imagine if they lived like their Savior Jesus told them too.

Like Stads said, there are no guarantees in life. You don't know if you'll even wake up the next day. You could very likely asphyxiate on your saliva while sleeping and no would know until it's too late. Humans are not guaranteed life. No being is guaranteed life.

And it's your life to live, just live your life without any worries about what "The Other" does. Stop making unnecessary stress on yourself, which can lead to worry, and you overwhelm yourself with it, and you become more susceptible to sickness and diseases.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #59 on: June 07, 2021, 07:43:55 AM »
Bill, I see your point, but I still think you're full of shit.   :lol :lol

When someone lies to intentionally disregard the protocols that are being put in place to minimize the risk of others, yeah ... I care.  If you don't, all the power to you. 

How would you feel if someone driving with a blood alcohol level in the 0.teens "identifies as sober"?  Rhetorical question, please do not answer it as I'm not sure I'm ready to hear some manner of defense on that  :biggrin:

As a society, we place restrictions on impaired (drug/alcohol) people for the health and safety of others, so I have no issue in placing restrictions on unvaccinated people. Maybe it's not the best analogy*, but someone who wilfully and maliciously misrepresents something that might have an impact on others' health (either directly with the current strains, or in being part of the group that is contributing to the potential of developing a new strain/variant), yeah... I care. 

Yes, I can do my part, but I'm not simply going to be forgiving and dismissive of others that are (imo) not only NOT doing their part, but actively doing an 'opposing' part.

* Perhaps the closer analogy is that we don't allow HIV infected persons to have unprotected intercourse without disclosing this fact.  Again, not perfect, so don't feel the need to pick it apart.  Hopefully you get the point - even if you disagree with it.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #60 on: June 07, 2021, 08:06:23 AM »
Bill, I see your point, but I still think you're full of shit.   :lol :lol

When someone lies to intentionally disregard the protocols that are being put in place to minimize the risk of others, yeah ... I care.  If you don't, all the power to you. 

How would you feel if someone driving with a blood alcohol level in the 0.teens "identifies as sober"?  Rhetorical question, please do not answer it as I'm not sure I'm ready to hear some manner of defense on that  :biggrin:

As a society, we place restrictions on impaired (drug/alcohol) people for the health and safety of others, so I have no issue in placing restrictions on unvaccinated people. Maybe it's not the best analogy*, but someone who wilfully and maliciously misrepresents something that might have an impact on others' health (either directly with the current strains, or in being part of the group that is contributing to the potential of developing a new strain/variant), yeah... I care. 

Yes, I can do my part, but I'm not simply going to be forgiving and dismissive of others that are (imo) not only NOT doing their part, but actively doing an 'opposing' part.

* Perhaps the closer analogy is that we don't allow HIV infected persons to have unprotected intercourse without disclosing this fact.  Again, not perfect, so don't feel the need to pick it apart.  Hopefully you get the point - even if you disagree with it.

With your logic, I think humanity as whole is not doing it's part to protect the health of our Mother Earth. We are not doing our part, we are actively doing the opposing, which is causing The Earth to Heal Itself, in turn causing our Destruction and even possibly, extinction.

Yet, I don't fault anyone. It's just life. And human nature doing it's part. We humans lost a connection to the Earth. To the point where some people dream about living in the stars, on another planet.

You could have all the restrictions in the world made and yet, life will still find a way around it. Humans are not indestructible, and never will be. It's a false reality to believe in this, and people are striving and finding ways to become indestructible.

Humans like to place blame on "The Other" rather than reflecting upon oneself and understanding it was their own consequence for their decision and choice. Leaders do this all the time, they blame the other country, or find a scapegoat, in order to not face those consequences. It's why we had to make a system of laws, because people lie all the time. It's a way to get honesty out of a situation and to know and understand the honest truth. It's why, people swear to tell the whole truth, and are put under oath.

The maliciousness and willful acts of the Colonists developing and destroying all the things us Indigenous Peoples relied on for our health is one that no one cares about. They misrepresented whom we are, by manipulation to their congregations. So should I be blaming all the immigrant white people for this...Maybe? But I don't, really blame them, I am more saddened by what was lost and what these people were and how they acted and treated people.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #61 on: June 07, 2021, 09:50:32 AM »
If a person wants to roll the dice with drinking before 21, we still penalize fake IDs :P

Don't assume I agree with that.   

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #62 on: June 07, 2021, 10:00:15 AM »
If a person wants to roll the dice with drinking before 21, we still penalize fake IDs :P

Don't assume I agree with that.

A wise man once told me that one should see things for how they are, not for how they want them to be.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #63 on: June 07, 2021, 10:35:06 AM »
Bill, I see your point, but I still think you're full of shit.   :lol :lol

When someone lies to intentionally disregard the protocols that are being put in place to minimize the risk of others, yeah ... I care.  If you don't, all the power to you. 

How would you feel if someone driving with a blood alcohol level in the 0.teens "identifies as sober"?  Rhetorical question, please do not answer it as I'm not sure I'm ready to hear some manner of defense on that  :biggrin:

As a society, we place restrictions on impaired (drug/alcohol) people for the health and safety of others, so I have no issue in placing restrictions on unvaccinated people. Maybe it's not the best analogy*, but someone who wilfully and maliciously misrepresents something that might have an impact on others' health (either directly with the current strains, or in being part of the group that is contributing to the potential of developing a new strain/variant), yeah... I care. 

Yes, I can do my part, but I'm not simply going to be forgiving and dismissive of others that are (imo) not only NOT doing their part, but actively doing an 'opposing' part.

* Perhaps the closer analogy is that we don't allow HIV infected persons to have unprotected intercourse without disclosing this fact.  Again, not perfect, so don't feel the need to pick it apart.  Hopefully you get the point - even if you disagree with it.

Not for nothing, but it's a little...  frustrating to read "[point one], but don't pick it apart!" and "[point two], but don't pick it apart!".   We're not talking about personal views, we're talking about the intersection of personal rights, what we can hold OTHERS to, and what should be the punishment.  That needs to be discussed, and as important as one persons's view is, it's only one half of the equation.   If I sleep with someone that has the AIDS and doesn't tell me, I can sue them.  I have recourse.  The point I'm trying to make - and it holds across the board, because if nothing else, I'm pretty goddamn consistent - is that what we, individually, believe may not be what everyone else believes and that's a problem when it comes to who gets to be heard.   Just because there's "harm" doesn't answer the question of whose rights "trump".

If I ask Mora if she's vaccinated, yes or no I'm taking it on faith. She's got no obligation whatsoever to be truthful to me, other than her own conscience, and my only recourse is to pursue her for damages in the event I rely on her word and it's false.   The answer to all the world's problems isn't "more laws!".  Government is not here to make sure we're bundled up in a safe little cocoon. 

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #64 on: June 07, 2021, 10:37:27 AM »
If a person wants to roll the dice with drinking before 21, we still penalize fake IDs :P

Don't assume I agree with that.

A wise man once told me that one should see things for how they are, not for how they want them to be.

???   I don't get that; I'm the poster boy for seeing the world the way it is not the way I want it to be.  That's the crux of 95% of my arguments (and why I get called an "apologist" so often).  What is the basic premise of "tend your own garden" than accepting the world the way it is?

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2021, 11:21:21 AM »
If I sleep with someone that has the AIDS and doesn't tell me, I can sue them.  I have recourse.

Exactly.  The premise is the same between HIV and COVID.  Both are a contagious virus.  If you (royal) spread HIV, you're harming the health of someone else.  If you spread COVID, you're harming the health of someone else.  In it's most basic comparable terms, this seems pretty straight-forward.  But if someone spreads COVID to me, I have ZERO recourse.  Even if that person did so knowingly, and while in willful and malicious breach of protocols and health regulations/guidelines.  THAT is what I have a problem with.  It's kinda like "suck it up, buttercup".  And I'm not prepared to dismiss/forgive those with that attitude, to the limit that it's my responsibility to tend my own garden.  I'd like to see some responsibility on others not to fuck up my garden.


The answer to all the world's problems isn't "more laws!".  Government is not here to make sure we're bundled up in a safe little cocoon.

Maybe not a "safe little cocoon", but I'm pretty sure that is the purpose of laws created by government - to safeguard its citizens.  But by this measure, you're against the HIV laws around intercourse?  If not, I'm confused.


Re: the last post, I was trying to poke a little fun at you  I know you're the poster boy - I was referencing your wisdom, you knucklehead!  You seemed opposed to penalizing people who drink via the use of fake id's - but, dem's da laws.  Well, I'm opposed to people disregarding my health, but the response seems to boil down to 'sorry 'bout your views, deal with it'.  I'm being brutally callous in that last statement, I know that's not exactly what you're suggesting.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2021, 11:22:49 AM »
the penalty should be wearing a mask everywhere in shame.  Put an "A" on them.  :lol
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #67 on: June 07, 2021, 11:55:42 AM »
If I sleep with someone that has the AIDS and doesn't tell me, I can sue them.  I have recourse.

Exactly.  The premise is the same between HIV and COVID.  Both are a contagious virus.  If you (royal) spread HIV, you're harming the health of someone else.  If you spread COVID, you're harming the health of someone else.  In it's most basic comparable terms, this seems pretty straight-forward.  But if someone spreads COVID to me, I have ZERO recourse.  Even if that person did so knowingly, and while in willful and malicious breach of protocols and health regulations/guidelines.  THAT is what I have a problem with.  It's kinda like "suck it up, buttercup".  And I'm not prepared to dismiss/forgive those with that attitude, to the limit that it's my responsibility to tend my own garden.  I'd like to see some responsibility on others not to fuck up my garden.

You do not have zero recourse.  If you can sue someone for infecting you with HIV, you can sue someone for infecting you with the COVID.   There's no difference between the two in that regard (I'm not talking about the laws in some states - I think it's up to 20 now, or 21 - that make it a crime; I'm talking simple tort).

As for the latter, you and I just have to disagree.  It's not the world's problem to make sure my precious little garden is pristine.  We've spoiled ourselves into thinking we're entitled to that, and we're not.


Quote
The answer to all the world's problems isn't "more laws!".  Government is not here to make sure we're bundled up in a safe little cocoon.

Maybe not a "safe little cocoon", but I'm pretty sure that is the purpose of laws created by government - to safeguard its citizens.  But by this measure, you're against the HIV laws around intercourse?  If not, I'm confused.

I'm confused by your confusion.   Seriously.  I'll answer you, but I'm not sure what you're asking.

It's obviously a matter of opinion, and debate, but depending where you fall on the traditional "conservative/liberal" (I DO NOT mean Republican and Democrat, I mean historical "role of government" ideology) spectrum, "safeguard" can have a wide meaning.   "Protect from outside interests", that is to say, other country's armies? Sure!!!  We certainly do not want each person to have to muster their own army to protect against an invasion by Canada.   "Protect me personally from any harm or shortfall that may ever occur"?   Not to me. That's neither practical or possible.  But even beyond that, too often today it seems that the world "safeguard" now means "shield me from people I think - unilaterally - are douchebags".

Quote
Re: the last post, I was trying to poke a little fun at you  I know you're the poster boy - I was referencing your wisdom, you knucklehead!  You seemed opposed to penalizing people who drink via the use of fake id's - but, dem's da laws.  Well, I'm opposed to people disregarding my health, but the response seems to boil down to 'sorry 'bout your views, deal with it'.  I'm being brutally callous in that last statement, I know that's not exactly what you're suggesting.

Well, to be fair, that's not far from what I'm suggesting.   You're right, I AM 'dem's the laws', because at some point, someone smarter than you or me made them the laws, and they've endured for decades.  We don't get to ignore laws we don't like just because we don't like them.  A good example is weed; I am 100% for the legalization of marijuana, but I don't at all agree with the concept of "well, even if there is a law, it's harmless so go fuck yourself".  It's illegal, deal with it, and if you don't like the law, CHANGE IT.   And drinking ID's falls in this category.  The drinking age (as well as Sunday abstinence) is largely for religious reasons.   The age has raised for medical concerns, but if it was really about medical issues, the drinking age would be 25, 26 since kids' brains don't fully form until then.  So it really makes little practical sense.  Most laws like this aren't about the specific law - it's not meant to literally stop 19 year olds from drinking (most states actually DON'T make consumption illegal, only the purchase and sale), only to provide another means of punishment in case something ELSE bad happens.

But to me, "people disregarding my health" falls into a different category.  It becomes purely subjective and allows for too much in-the-moment judgment by people that may or may not have a vested interest in the outcome.  There need not be LAWS requiring someone else to "not disregard your health"; if they do, carelessly or wantonly, then you have recourse through the courts.  Plenty of lawyers will take that case for free, if it exists.  Past the point of pandemic, I don't see why that's not the path forward.  When we were in crisis, it made sense, since I can't individually tell if the emergency rooms were over-saturated, and even if I could it's not within my power to change that.   But we should all be starting from the premise that "no one can protect me better than me." and move out from there.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #68 on: June 07, 2021, 01:37:56 PM »
you and I just have to disagree.

Agreed.  I may need to sig this.  Right after the one I have saved that "Jingle is right as rain".   :rollin
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #69 on: June 07, 2021, 01:48:57 PM »
you and I just have to disagree.

Agreed.  I may need to sig this.  Right after the one I have saved that "Jingle is right as rain".   :rollin

Can ya have it both ways?   :) :)