Author Topic: Coronavirus Thread v.2  (Read 160130 times)

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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3360 on: January 27, 2022, 06:13:06 AM »
Choices have consequences.  Suck it up buttercup.

No, SOME choices have consequences, depending on the way the Mob is facing.  :)

No, ALL choices have consequences .. I'm not just talking COVID here, I'm talking life in general.  Some consequences are meaningless, some are significant.  Newton's 1st law also applies to life.  And also, this is SOP for transplants.  This story is a nothing burger.  Outrage for the sake of outrage.  I don't ever remember reading news about a liver transplant recipient (and their supporters of "FREEDOM!") losing their shit because they refused to stop pounding back a 40 of JD nightly.  Or a gastric bypass candidate not getting it cuz they need to maintain their all-natural Jabba the Hutt cosplay look.

Back to the COVID topic now ...

First ... Bob ... you're definitely doing the right thing.  Hope it does start and end as a mild case for you.

But for them, the experience record of this vaccine is less than 5% of that. Say what you want, the COVID vaccine is a relatively new technology, and some of the innovations that went into it's success are less than a decade old, and with NO real-world experience.   It's not as ridiculous as some of you make it out to be.  It's CERTAINLY not as simple as the difference between "a needle prick" and "slicing open someone's ribcage" (my quotes, of an idea that several here have put forth).

If this is the argument, then please inform me what we know about the long term effects of COVID.  It is by definition a "novel" virus, so it seems counterintuitive that someone is willing to defend their choice because (despite all the expert research disputing it) they have concerns about potential long-term effects of the vaccine - why then aren't those people then concerned about the potential long-term effects of the virus (not to mention the KNOWN short term effects)?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3361 on: January 27, 2022, 06:39:25 AM »
I've actually seen a few guys who couldn't quit drinking in the face of an impending liver transplant, only to lose the opportunity, and I've seen a few start drinking on the new liver. None made it, though that speaks more to the power of alcoholism than anything else.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3362 on: January 27, 2022, 07:08:43 AM »
Choices have consequences.  Suck it up buttercup.

No, SOME choices have consequences, depending on the way the Mob is facing.  :)

No, ALL choices have consequences .. I'm not just talking COVID here, I'm talking life in general.  Some consequences are meaningless, some are significant.  Newton's 1st law also applies to life.  And also, this is SOP for transplants.  This story is a nothing burger.  Outrage for the sake of outrage.  I don't ever remember reading news about a liver transplant recipient (and their supporters of "FREEDOM!") losing their shit because they refused to stop pounding back a 40 of JD nightly.  Or a gastric bypass candidate not getting it cuz they need to maintain their all-natural Jabba the Hutt cosplay look.

Of course, you're right, Chad; I was glibly (perhaps too glibly) making the point that we seem to be, in life in general, very subjective about when we apply the meaningful consequences versus when we apply the meaningless ones.   We just had a case here in CT, decided by the State Supreme Court within the last day or so.  Two guys, waiting in line for exercise equipment, sued two gyms that had "women's only" sections, saying it was unconstitutional.  And, because that's the law as established by hundreds of women looking for "equality", they won easily.  There's outrage here.  Women are gawked at; women are now more susceptible than ever to sexual harassment and abuse; women are entitled to feel comfortable and "unattacked" when working out.   All true, I guess, to some degree or another, but where were these standards when the case law was being developed?  And in keeping with the point I made to Hef in another thread, why is ANYONE surprised at this, since it would take only a simple question - "how do you feel about this?" - to the men on the other side of the landmark cases to see how this would turn out.  I'm not Channing Tatum, and wasn't even when I was in shape; I was no more comfortable doing benchpresses in front of cute girls in leotards than they were doing their lats in front of me.  If we're going to hang our hats on the premise that we all have choice, but we all have to "suck it up buttercup" to the consequences, then they damn well better be reasonably predictable, and reasonably uniform.

I've already said, I have no beef with the hospital here.  They are, as you say, following SOP.   It IS a nothingburger.

Quote
But for them, the experience record of this vaccine is less than 5% of that. Say what you want, the COVID vaccine is a relatively new technology, and some of the innovations that went into it's success are less than a decade old, and with NO real-world experience.   It's not as ridiculous as some of you make it out to be.  It's CERTAINLY not as simple as the difference between "a needle prick" and "slicing open someone's ribcage" (my quotes, of an idea that several here have put forth).

If this is the argument, then please inform me what we know about the long term effects of COVID.  It is by definition a "novel" virus, so it seems counterintuitive that someone is willing to defend their choice because (despite all the expert research disputing it) they have concerns about potential long-term effects of the vaccine - why then aren't those people then concerned about the potential long-term effects of the virus (not to mention the KNOWN short term effects)?

Why do you* get to do the risk/benefit analysis for someone else?  That BAFFLES me.  We DON'T know about the long term effects of COVID.  That's the point. We don't know about the long term effects of mRNA vaccines either.  For the traditional model of vaccines, we typically know all we're ever going to know within about six months of wide-spread introduction.  We also typically know all we're ever going to know about the effects of the underlying virus after about six months to a year, so if we're going to now say "well, we don't REALLY know the impacts of COVID long term", we can't actually be surprised if some people also say "well, we don't REALLY know the impacts of the COVID vaccine long term."   Why do you get to pick your arguments and no one else** does?  Why do you get to tell them how to value those relative risks?   

I know for me, I can formulate an argument why I take my chances with the virus.  Assuming they are all first-impression cases, only about 365 million cases have occurred across the world; that's less than 5% of the population.  The odds of me getting COVID then, are both random and rather small.  I may never even be exposed to the virus, and if I was (and didn't get infected) I'd likely never know.  It's out of my control, largely.   If I ELECT to get the vaccine, the odds are 100% in my control that I'm now exposed to the risks.  I can't get the impacts from the vaccine if I don't take the vaccine.   I have, myself, adopted this logic in my life on several occasions; I was a freshman in college when Len Bias died of a cocaine-induced heart attack, after allegedly only trying the drug one time.  That, coupled with what I know to be a fairly addictive personality, I decided then, and have stuck to my guns, that if I never try cocaine, I can't ever have my heart explode because of it, and I can't ever get addicted to it.  I'm sure there are many people here that if we substituted "guns" in to the discussion would have no issue with the logic "if you never buy a gun, you can't ever have an accidental shooting occur on your watch". 

Look, I'm not asking you to ACCEPT this logic, you adopt any logic you want.  I'm just pointing out that a lot of this discussion regarding risk/benefit involves a LOT of projecting. 

* I don't mean "you", Chad, but "you" those who are questioning why someone might make a different decision than you
** That is, those that disagree with you.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3363 on: January 27, 2022, 07:21:25 AM »
And by the way, I don't say all this stuff to be difficult.  I say all this stuff because for me, life doesn't fit nicely into neat little threads, each with their own moderator.  Life is an interwoven tapestry.  The same response that makes us question why someone would be so stupid as to not get a vaccine also makes us question why someone would be so stupid as to follow [insert politician].  We can NEVER hope to abolish - or at least minimize - the in-groups and out-groups if we don't practice the skillset of putting ourselves in other people's shoes when we're discussing differences.  The bigger the difference, the harder the job, and the more we need our skills sharp.

(And for those who still insist that it's our job to change minds, I would make the same argument:  how can you begin to effectively change minds if you don't know what/where the mind is that you're trying to change?  It's like trying to cook a meal and not bothering to see what you have in the pantry first.)

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3364 on: January 27, 2022, 08:50:29 AM »
What I find more useful is when experts disagree with each other, because then you can read informed discussion. It's hard to see that when the consensus experts on COVID don't like going on alternative media and the skeptical experts are banned from/won't be let on corporate media sources. 'Tis a shame
You don't want the consensus to be right because you want to see the discussion?

Besides, medicine is not one of the fields where you see a lot of experts disagreeing with each other.  What you are describing happens in more interpretive disciplines, like art/film criticism, religion, even law, where people with similar credentials can come up with wildly different opnions.  Medicine isn't nearly as interpretive (at least not in those ways); the grunt work is done in research labs.  The results are what they are.

If there were lots of varying opinions at odds with each other, how could there ever be any standards of care?

My understanding of psychiatric drugs is there's a very live and contentious debate about off-label usage and what's most effective/ethical.

Or if you look at COVID shots for children, different countries are putting together their own guidelines based on their own research.

Before COVID politics forced everything to conform to a narrative, even using masks in hospitals was starting to be questioned based on research that it didn't really do anything.

Yes medicine doesn't have as much debate as art criticism. But to say there really isn't any I don't think is an accurate characterization.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3365 on: January 27, 2022, 10:14:24 AM »
I had a quick conversation about this with a friend, and something sort of sunk in.

We've seen this sort of thing before.  "New study, one cup of coffee a day is good for you!".   "New study, people who drink an average of one cup of coffee per day have a higher rate of cancer."   "One glass of wine per day promotes lower cholesterol and weight loss".   "Even one glass of alcohol per day causes permanent brain loss".   We're getting these studies in now related to COVID.  It shoudln't surprise even one person that some of the answers/results are conflicting or contradictory.   That's the way life works; life doesn't fit into neat little, zero sum, black and white boxes.  Things tend to have plusses and minuses; benefits tend to be offset by detriments.   Black clouds tend to have silver linings.

I think what both sides fail to account for is that their OWN side has accountability; when one side focuses on ONE benefit (or ONE detriment, as the case may be), it gives ammunition to the other side to reject that.  Think of other, controversial, issues.  Guns; to hear most of the debates about guns, it's zero sum:  you either save lives or preserve rights, with no gray area.  The reality is far different, but as long as the narrative is over-simplified like that, we'll never get to any meaningful answer.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3366 on: January 27, 2022, 10:17:57 AM »
And by the way, I don't say all this stuff to be difficult.  I say all this stuff because for me, life doesn't fit nicely into neat little threads, each with their own moderator.  Life is an interwoven tapestry.  The same response that makes us question why someone would be so stupid as to not get a vaccine also makes us question why someone would be so stupid as to follow [insert politician].  We can NEVER hope to abolish - or at least minimize - the in-groups and out-groups if we don't practice the skillset of putting ourselves in other people's shoes when we're discussing differences.  The bigger the difference, the harder the job, and the more we need our skills sharp.

(And for those who still insist that it's our job to change minds, I would make the same argument:  how can you begin to effectively change minds if you don't know what/where the mind is that you're trying to change?  It's like trying to cook a meal and not bothering to see what you have in the pantry first.)

I really feel this involves what I mean by "Mindsets" and "Perspectives". There are many causes for why humans develop certain mindsets, perspectives, and behaviors.

For one, humans can't read peoples thoughts, so how does one really understand what the other is thinking, feeling, or perceiving? Humans will actually lie to get out of an uncomfortable situation, which means sometimes agreeing with someone when you in fact do not agree with them at all. This happens a lot with fear, and children do this a lot.


I've actually seen a few guys who couldn't quit drinking in the face of an impending liver transplant, only to lose the opportunity, and I've seen a few start drinking on the new liver. None made it, though that speaks more to the power of alcoholism than anything else.

This is a reason why I say things and question the morality of certain lifestyle decisions.

Yes, choices do have consequences and those consequences can either be beneficial or detrimental. We humans should strive for the beneficial outcomes of our decisions and choices more so than the detrimental ones. I understand that there are many, many, many decisions that have had detrimental outcomes that us humans will realize when the time passes. Such as the impact of guns since the creation of Gun Powder, or the devastating effects our behaviors are doing to this Earth, which we humans depend upon to survive.

Or better yet, the realization of the system in which we live our lifestyles is in fact very detrimental, and people are starting to question the very system and it's many wheels and cogs. Such as the health system and the education system. Heck, even the political system is being questioned by the people.


Theres just so many different mindsets and perspectives in this world, that we humans are realizing we are coming into conflict with one another, the very groups we were born into are coming into conflict both in belief, behavior and mindset.

For one, First Nations of the Americas have a vastly different mindset and perspective than the Europeans whom arrived, this caused the detrimental consequences for Native people, while benefitting only the European people. Asian people also have a different mindset and perspective, they do Math differently and also utilize spirituality in their decisions, behaviors and Lifestyle.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3367 on: January 27, 2022, 10:32:01 AM »
And by the way, I don't say all this stuff to be difficult.  I say all this stuff because for me, life doesn't fit nicely into neat little threads, each with their own moderator. 

Agreed... which is also the reason you* can't boil it down to 5% chance of potential long term effects from catching COVID vs 100% chance of potential long term effects if taking the vaccine.   There are a lot of other variables that go into one's actual risk of negative effects - both short and long term.  Other than for outlier reasons, by and large there just aren't any reasonable, statistical, scientific means to conclude that NOT vaccinating lowers one's risk of health impact over vaccinating.  Maybe that's a me thing, but I'm not convinced that it is.

*same disclaimer you stated earlier
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3368 on: January 27, 2022, 11:28:09 AM »
And by the way, I don't say all this stuff to be difficult.  I say all this stuff because for me, life doesn't fit nicely into neat little threads, each with their own moderator.  Life is an interwoven tapestry.  The same response that makes us question why someone would be so stupid as to not get a vaccine also makes us question why someone would be so stupid as to follow [insert politician].  We can NEVER hope to abolish - or at least minimize - the in-groups and out-groups if we don't practice the skillset of putting ourselves in other people's shoes when we're discussing differences.  The bigger the difference, the harder the job, and the more we need our skills sharp.

(And for those who still insist that it's our job to change minds, I would make the same argument:  how can you begin to effectively change minds if you don't know what/where the mind is that you're trying to change?  It's like trying to cook a meal and not bothering to see what you have in the pantry first.)

I really feel this involves what I mean by "Mindsets" and "Perspectives". There are many causes for why humans develop certain mindsets, perspectives, and behaviors.

For one, humans can't read peoples thoughts, so how does one really understand what the other is thinking, feeling, or perceiving? Humans will actually lie to get out of an uncomfortable situation, which means sometimes agreeing with someone when you in fact do not agree with them at all. This happens a lot with fear, and children do this a lot.

We can't read people's thoughts, but by god that doesn't slow many of us down from THINKING we know exactly what they're thinking about and, worse, ACTING on it.

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3369 on: January 28, 2022, 08:33:29 AM »
https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

Wired story on "the experts" fundamentally mis-understanding how aerosolized viruses spread due to mis-reading of old research. This woman spent two decades (!) battling the scientific consensus on what is now seen as obvious.

Not that I've never made a mistake in my life. But these kinds of fundamental errors in research/thinking cannot be the basis of social policy.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3370 on: January 28, 2022, 08:43:43 AM »
We received an email from our school district superintendent last evening.  There is a lawsuit in the State of Illinois where parents grouped together with one bigmouth lawyer downstate and filed a class action suit against the state board of education and about 150 individual school districts (one lawyer filed the suit - parents in each district had to pony up $5,000 of their own money to include their school district as a defendant) regarding the mask mandate in schools.

The superintendent indicated that a decision is likely to be announced today, but with an immediate appeal and another 10 days for an appellate court to uphold or overturn the original verdict.  So we're likely to see some school district drama unfold over the next week.

I'm torn about this - I like that the schools have had kids wear masks, but at the same time, I wish my daughter could have a normal school experience.  She already had covid a few weeks ago, so I'm inclined to not care if the mask mandate is struck down.  I'd probably give her the choice if she wanted to wear it.   As for my younger son, who is unvaccinated, I can see a covid outbreak happening at his preschool, and that would really irritate me.  We protected him by vaccinating everyone around him, yet a bunch of parents could unravel that for us.

I will say that it has been amazing to go two years WITHOUT the stomach flu in our house.  Each year prior, we had 2-3 bouts with everyone in the family getting the stomach bug.  I fully believe that wearing masks (and schools making kids who have vomited stay home per covid guidelines) have kept kids with dirty hands from spreading stomach viruses around schools.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3371 on: January 28, 2022, 10:40:15 AM »
We received an email from our school district superintendent last evening.  There is a lawsuit in the State of Illinois where parents grouped together with one bigmouth lawyer downstate and filed a class action suit against the state board of education and about 150 individual school districts (one lawyer filed the suit - parents in each district had to pony up $5,000 of their own money to include their school district as a defendant) regarding the mask mandate in schools.

The superintendent indicated that a decision is likely to be announced today, but with an immediate appeal and another 10 days for an appellate court to uphold or overturn the original verdict.  So we're likely to see some school district drama unfold over the next week.

I'm torn about this - I like that the schools have had kids wear masks, but at the same time, I wish my daughter could have a normal school experience.  She already had covid a few weeks ago, so I'm inclined to not care if the mask mandate is struck down.  I'd probably give her the choice if she wanted to wear it.   As for my younger son, who is unvaccinated, I can see a covid outbreak happening at his preschool, and that would really irritate me.  We protected him by vaccinating everyone around him, yet a bunch of parents could unravel that for us.

I will say that it has been amazing to go two years WITHOUT the stomach flu in our house.  Each year prior, we had 2-3 bouts with everyone in the family getting the stomach bug.  I fully believe that wearing masks (and schools making kids who have vomited stay home per covid guidelines) have kept kids with dirty hands from spreading stomach viruses around schools.

And it sucks when those parents have no choice but to send their sick child to school or else they won't be able to support the child. You do not know what other parents have to go through, some are actually struggling just to support their child, which is why some children only receive a good meal at the schools.

Your choices are to send your child to school and risk getting sick, or keep them home and watch them all day and teach them the things they'll learn at the preschool, decreasing their odds of a likely catching a sickness.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3372 on: January 28, 2022, 12:44:08 PM »
https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

Wired story on "the experts" fundamentally mis-understanding how aerosolized viruses spread due to mis-reading of old research. This woman spent two decades (!) battling the scientific consensus on what is now seen as obvious.

Not that I've never made a mistake in my life. But these kinds of fundamental errors in research/thinking cannot be the basis of social policy.

And yet they are, and like anything else, there are people that hang their hats on those mistakes/errors. 

Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3373 on: January 28, 2022, 02:41:17 PM »
All this school drama and one thing comes to mind, my son is 4 months from graduating and being done with this. I'll have no kids in public school anymore.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3374 on: January 28, 2022, 03:00:10 PM »
https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

Wired story on "the experts" fundamentally mis-understanding how aerosolized viruses spread due to mis-reading of old research. This woman spent two decades (!) battling the scientific consensus on what is now seen as obvious.

Not that I've never made a mistake in my life. But these kinds of fundamental errors in research/thinking cannot be the basis of social policy.

And yet they are, and like anything else, there are people that hang their hats on those mistakes/errors.

Which is why, and I know this is a broader and somewhat political point, but the entire expert/social engineer class needs to be removed from any position where they have the power to hurt more people.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3375 on: January 28, 2022, 07:58:06 PM »

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3377 on: January 29, 2022, 09:56:21 AM »
If only the world could be reduced to pithy memes.  The thinking that it can is in large part why we are where we are.  Everyone expects this stuff to be black, white, and simple to digest.  In reality, the world is a messy, grey, multivariable place.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3378 on: January 29, 2022, 10:00:52 AM »
If only the world could be reduced to pithy memes.  The thinking that it can is in large part why we are where we are.  Everyone expects this stuff to be black, white, and simple to digest.  In reality, the world is a messy, grey, multivariable place.

Look, I don't mean to pick on you but I've seen this response from you before.

Who here is saying it should be?  Just because someone uses a meme doesn't mean they want the world to be reduced to it.  Talk about black and white thinking...sometimes memes are just a cleverish way of writing in short hand.  You might not like it, and that's fair, but what is acceptable to you and what is acceptable to others are very different things, right?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3379 on: January 29, 2022, 10:14:36 AM »
If only the world could be reduced to pithy memes.  The thinking that it can is in large part why we are where we are.  Everyone expects this stuff to be black, white, and simple to digest.  In reality, the world is a messy, grey, multivariable place.

Look, I don't mean to pick on you but I've seen this response from you before.

Who here is saying it should be?  Just because someone uses a meme doesn't mean they want the world to be reduced to it.  Talk about black and white thinking...sometimes memes are just a cleverish way of writing in short hand.  You might not like it, and that's fair, but what is acceptable to you and what is acceptable to others are very different things, right?

Doesn't mean they want to, but doesn't mean they don't either.  Sometimes memes ARE a cleverish way of writing in short hand; but sometimes that's all there is.  It's not a short hand, it's just, uh, the hand.  :)   I'm not invalidating memes, per se, they play a valuable (if, in my opinion, overused) role.  I'm invalidating when the argument is ONLY the meme.

There are a lot of complicated, intertwined, sometimes contradictory facets to the COVID issue.  IMO, memes don't help matters.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 10:25:15 AM by Stadler »

Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3380 on: January 29, 2022, 03:06:18 PM »
Had to do some shopping today and saw something that sort of ticked me off. Walking into the grocery store behind a couple that I could already tell would be no masking it. I'm in Illinois and we are a mask required state.

They walk in, pull out a cart, use the disinfecting wipes that are provided and wipe the whole thing down and then walk into the store. The greeter asks if they have a mask and the woman snorts no in a very condescending manner. I don't know, just seemed counterintuitive in every way. I'm going to disinfect my cart but I am not going to mask up.

We happened to get back to out cars at the same time and I see the woman fire up a joint inside the car. I don't know, they really bugged the crap outta me.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3381 on: January 29, 2022, 03:38:44 PM »
Had to do some shopping today and saw something that sort of ticked me off. Walking into the grocery store behind a couple that I could already tell would be no masking it. I'm in Illinois and we are a mask required state.

They walk in, pull out a cart, use the disinfecting wipes that are provided and wipe the whole thing down and then walk into the store. The greeter asks if they have a mask and the woman snorts no in a very condescending manner. I don't know, just seemed counterintuitive in every way. I'm going to disinfect my cart but I am not going to mask up.

We happened to get back to out cars at the same time and I see the woman fire up a joint inside the car. I don't know, they really bugged the crap outta me.

This is the kind of thing I just don't understand. Might wiping down the cart and not masking be contradictory? Maybe. Depends on what you're afraid of. I agree that rudeness is bad, but that's their problem and they will pay for it. And I don't know what the lady lighting up a joint has to do with any of this.

How is this different than when a certain type of person tells me they don't like it when they see a black person wear their pants too low?
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3382 on: January 29, 2022, 03:45:00 PM »
If only the world could be reduced to pithy memes.  The thinking that it can is in large part why we are where we are.  Everyone expects this stuff to be black, white, and simple to digest.  In reality, the world is a messy, grey, multivariable place.

Look, I don't mean to pick on you but I've seen this response from you before.

Who here is saying it should be?  Just because someone uses a meme doesn't mean they want the world to be reduced to it.  Talk about black and white thinking...sometimes memes are just a cleverish way of writing in short hand.  You might not like it, and that's fair, but what is acceptable to you and what is acceptable to others are very different things, right?

Let's just be honest, Stadler's response is more likely because of the person posting it, rather than the post itself. 
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3383 on: January 29, 2022, 03:46:54 PM »
Had to do some shopping today and saw something that sort of ticked me off. Walking into the grocery store behind a couple that I could already tell would be no masking it. I'm in Illinois and we are a mask required state.

They walk in, pull out a cart, use the disinfecting wipes that are provided and wipe the whole thing down and then walk into the store. The greeter asks if they have a mask and the woman snorts no in a very condescending manner. I don't know, just seemed counterintuitive in every way. I'm going to disinfect my cart but I am not going to mask up.

We happened to get back to out cars at the same time and I see the woman fire up a joint inside the car. I don't know, they really bugged the crap outta me.

This is the kind of thing I just don't understand. Might wiping down the cart and not masking be contradictory? Maybe. Depends on what you're afraid of. I agree that rudeness is bad, but that's their problem and they will pay for it. And I don't know what the lady lighting up a joint has to do with any of this.

How is this different than when a certain type of person tells me they don't like it when they see a black person wear their pants too low?

What in the actual fuck??
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3384 on: January 29, 2022, 04:09:09 PM »
https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/

Wired story on "the experts" fundamentally mis-understanding how aerosolized viruses spread due to mis-reading of old research. This woman spent two decades (!) battling the scientific consensus on what is now seen as obvious.

Not that I've never made a mistake in my life. But these kinds of fundamental errors in research/thinking cannot be the basis of social policy.

And yet they are, and like anything else, there are people that hang their hats on those mistakes/errors.

Which is why, and I know this is a broader and somewhat political point, but the entire expert/social engineer class needs to be removed from any position where they have the power to hurt more people.

Good grief.
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Offline Harmony

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3385 on: January 29, 2022, 04:15:08 PM »
If only the world could be reduced to pithy memes.  The thinking that it can is in large part why we are where we are.  Everyone expects this stuff to be black, white, and simple to digest.  In reality, the world is a messy, grey, multivariable place.

Look, I don't mean to pick on you but I've seen this response from you before.

Who here is saying it should be?  Just because someone uses a meme doesn't mean they want the world to be reduced to it.  Talk about black and white thinking...sometimes memes are just a cleverish way of writing in short hand.  You might not like it, and that's fair, but what is acceptable to you and what is acceptable to others are very different things, right?

Let's just be honest, Stadler's response is more likely because of the person posting it, rather than the post itself.

I admit I am not privy to all the history between board members on this board. 
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3386 on: January 29, 2022, 06:04:12 PM »
Test came back negative.  :tup  I'm Zero for 3 and fine with that.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3387 on: January 29, 2022, 06:05:58 PM »
Good news, O!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3388 on: January 29, 2022, 06:23:39 PM »
Awesome Bob!
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So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3389 on: January 29, 2022, 06:59:08 PM »
If only the world could be reduced to pithy memes.  The thinking that it can is in large part why we are where we are.  Everyone expects this stuff to be black, white, and simple to digest.  In reality, the world is a messy, grey, multivariable place.

Why be reduced to pithy memes when it could just be reduced to endless hand-wringing and relativism?

Offline darkshade

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3390 on: January 29, 2022, 07:18:36 PM »
Had to do some shopping today and saw something that sort of ticked me off. Walking into the grocery store behind a couple that I could already tell would be no masking it. I'm in Illinois and we are a mask required state.

They walk in, pull out a cart, use the disinfecting wipes that are provided and wipe the whole thing down and then walk into the store. The greeter asks if they have a mask and the woman snorts no in a very condescending manner. I don't know, just seemed counterintuitive in every way. I'm going to disinfect my cart but I am not going to mask up.

We happened to get back to out cars at the same time and I see the woman fire up a joint inside the car. I don't know, they really bugged the crap outta me.

This is the kind of thing I just don't understand. Might wiping down the cart and not masking be contradictory? Maybe. Depends on what you're afraid of. I agree that rudeness is bad, but that's their problem and they will pay for it. And I don't know what the lady lighting up a joint has to do with any of this.

How is this different than when a certain type of person tells me they don't like it when they see a black person wear their pants too low?

Your hands touch shopping carts, grocery items, door knobs and handles, the wall, tables, your wallet... etc...
Things other people's hands also touched.

Those same hands touch your mouth, your nose, your face, your ears, your eye lids, your head, your other hand... etc... Leading germs to enter the many tiny holes on your body.

Masks, especially cloth masks, don't provide the protection you may think they do, and I quote.

Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3391 on: January 29, 2022, 08:33:28 PM »
this is very true for germs and diseases in general and more people cleaning their hands more often is one of the good things to come of the pandemic. 

However,  two years into Covid-19 we do know it spreads more in the air than on surfaces, meaning if someone walks into a store and is carrying Covid without knowing it,  if they wear ANY kind of mask they will be spreading much less of it around than if they were unmasked. Hence, since it's difficult to know at all times if you are positive or not, it should (SHOULD!) be easy to ask everyone to wear a mask in indoor public spaces.   Once again basic stuff we should all have a grasp on by now.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 08:41:23 PM by XeRocks81 »

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3392 on: January 29, 2022, 08:35:39 PM »
Had to do some shopping today and saw something that sort of ticked me off. Walking into the grocery store behind a couple that I could already tell would be no masking it. I'm in Illinois and we are a mask required state.

They walk in, pull out a cart, use the disinfecting wipes that are provided and wipe the whole thing down and then walk into the store. The greeter asks if they have a mask and the woman snorts no in a very condescending manner. I don't know, just seemed counterintuitive in every way. I'm going to disinfect my cart but I am not going to mask up.

We happened to get back to out cars at the same time and I see the woman fire up a joint inside the car. I don't know, they really bugged the crap outta me.

This is the kind of thing I just don't understand. Might wiping down the cart and not masking be contradictory? Maybe. Depends on what you're afraid of. I agree that rudeness is bad, but that's their problem and they will pay for it. And I don't know what the lady lighting up a joint has to do with any of this.

How is this different than when a certain type of person tells me they don't like it when they see a black person wear their pants too low?

Your hands touch shopping carts, grocery items, door knobs and handles, the wall, tables, your wallet... etc...
Things other people's hands also touched.

Those same hands touch your mouth, your nose, your face, your ears, your eye lids, your head, your other hand... etc... Leading germs to enter the many tiny holes on your body.

Masks, especially cloth masks, don't provide the protection you may think they do, and I quote.



In the meantime, it does seem illogical to be concerned about transmission from surfaces, yet have no care about the millions of particles being inhaled with every breath.  :dunno:
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3393 on: January 29, 2022, 08:37:33 PM »
And away we go....

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #3394 on: January 29, 2022, 09:53:14 PM »
Had to do some shopping today and saw something that sort of ticked me off. Walking into the grocery store behind a couple that I could already tell would be no masking it. I'm in Illinois and we are a mask required state.

They walk in, pull out a cart, use the disinfecting wipes that are provided and wipe the whole thing down and then walk into the store. The greeter asks if they have a mask and the woman snorts no in a very condescending manner. I don't know, just seemed counterintuitive in every way. I'm going to disinfect my cart but I am not going to mask up.

We happened to get back to out cars at the same time and I see the woman fire up a joint inside the car. I don't know, they really bugged the crap outta me.

This is the kind of thing I just don't understand. Might wiping down the cart and not masking be contradictory? Maybe. Depends on what you're afraid of. I agree that rudeness is bad, but that's their problem and they will pay for it. And I don't know what the lady lighting up a joint has to do with any of this.

How is this different than when a certain type of person tells me they don't like it when they see a black person wear their pants too low?

Your hands touch shopping carts, grocery items, door knobs and handles, the wall, tables, your wallet... etc...
Things other people's hands also touched.

Those same hands touch your mouth, your nose, your face, your ears, your eye lids, your head, your other hand... etc... Leading germs to enter the many tiny holes on your body.

Masks, especially cloth masks, don't provide the protection you may think they do, and I quote.

I don't wipe down carts with sanitizing cloths. I think like one time I did because I was thinking "what if a little kid was sitting in here doing god knows what" and I felt like a germaphone afterwards. I don't see the point of mocking people who do though.

In the meantime, it does seem illogical to be concerned about transmission from surfaces, yet have no care about the millions of particles being inhaled with every breath.  :dunno:

That said, this is why I think hyper-focusing on COVID is bad. It's not the only germ or dirty thing out there and some of them I'm sure stick around on surfaces.

this is very true for germs and diseases in general and more people cleaning their hands more often is one of the good things to come of the pandemic. 

All that said, agreed as to this.
Take a chance you may die
Over and over again