Coronavirus Thread v.2

[hefdaddy42]

From the reports and data I have seen, for the most part, it is not "the sheer volume of cases" that is causing the "crushing increases in hospitalizations."  Rather, it is the overreaction to cases that seems to be a major contributor.  In other words, hospitalizations that are unnecessary because the mild symptoms (or no symptoms at all, but just a positive test result) do not warrant hospitalization, are causing, or at least a major contributor to, the "crushing increases in hospitalizations."

Let me make sure I understand what you're a lot of the data and reports are saying.  You a lot of the data and reports are saying that hospitals, who are overrun, are overrun because they are hospitalizing people who don't really need to be hospitalized?

That seems, on the face of it, ridiculous.  Why would hospitals, who are already overworked, be hospitalizing people who, by definition, don't need to be hospitalized?

That's a great question.  I suspect the answer is complicated.

I haven't seen any such data saying that people are being hospitalized who don't actually need to be.  Maybe I'm just missing out, or maybe it's on a regional basis.

Do you have links to any such data?  I would be fascinated to see it.

[Nekov]

I think the more likely scenario is that hospitals are overrun because nurses and doctors are getting covid and need to be isolated, not because they are admitting people who don't need to be admitted.
Jingle said that is what is happening in Canada, I know it's happening here in Argentina as well and I think I read something similar is happening in the UK.

[jingle.boy]

I think the more likely scenario is that hospitals are overrun because nurses and doctors are getting covid and need to be isolated, not because they are admitting people who don't need to be admitted.
Jingle said that is what is happening in Canada, I know it's happening here in Argentina as well and I think I read something similar is happening in the UK.

Additionally, unvax'd healthcare professionals reached the January deadline of vaccinate or terminate.  Lots of people here blinked, and got fired across many public service jobs.  Staff shortages COMBINED with huge increase in admissions is crushing most Canadian hospitals.

[cramx3]

On a personal note, I'm still sick but mostly just bad cold symptoms and tiredness.  Still haven't gotten my PCR results and still haven't gotten any of my at home tests in the mail (apparenty 2 should arrive today).  Not sure I should bother giving myself a test today.  I think I just wait for the PCR results and test myself again when the symptoms are gone.  My brother and his gf still test positive today and they are symptomless now. 

My gf got her tests in the mail, both her and her mother tested negative.  She asked me to use one of mine and at that point, I really wanted to because this would be very odd if none of us were positive with covid...



Yeah... I'm thinking this comes down to a few things.  At home tests aren't 100% at confirming the omicron varaint so false negatives are more possible now than ever with these.  Also, her symptoms were less severe than mine.  AND she had moderna and more recently got boosted than me with my 2 J&J shots.  I'm pretty sure she got covid too since she has symptoms, just not as bad as an infection.  She's getting a PCR test tomorrow.  My PCR test is still pending results, but we know the answer.  I guess I have to continue my quarantine for another 5 days now according to the latest CDC guidelines.

My family has been joking now that since all my siblings got covid over the holidays that we are coming down to Florida for my mom's 65th bday party in a couple weeks with immunity.

[Stadler]

I think the more likely scenario is that hospitals are overrun because nurses and doctors are getting covid and need to be isolated, not because they are admitting people who don't need to be admitted.
Jingle said that is what is happening in Canada, I know it's happening here in Argentina as well and I think I read something similar is happening in the UK.

We got a note from the Superintendent of Schools from our old town (shitty school system; I've written about it before) and they are "hour to hour" on COVID and school.   I'm not sure what that means - they're just going to send kids home at random? - but the emphasis was less on STUDENTS getting it than on not having available staff.   He didn't go into details as to whether that meant staff WITH COVID or staff WITHOUT vaccines, but the point is, this isn't just about the students, or, by corollary, the patients in the hospitals.  It's as much about who is going to take care of them.

Honestly, that seems like a bigger problem to me, since if it's JUST about bed space, you can bully that, right?  Put beds in the hall.  Make-shift beds out of tables.  Etc.  But if there's no one to treat, the next person that comes in with a heart attack, or a snake bite, or a car accident, they might as well just stay home, because the level of medical expertise will be the same (i.e. NONE) if there isn't a doctor or nurse present.

[Spiritus]

Just tested positive.   

[Stadler]

Just tested positive.   

Good luck to you (sincerely).  Thoughts are with you.  Hopefully your symptoms aren't too bad?

[Spiritus]

Thanks. No, not too bad, like a normal flu. My girlfriend (we live together) has tested negative yet she is sicker than me.  We are both in isolation as of today as we work in same place. On the plus side, this finally gives me time to put some hours into Red Dead Redemption 2 that I installed last week on my PC 

[Skeever]

I think the more likely scenario is that hospitals are overrun because nurses and doctors are getting covid and need to be isolated, not because they are admitting people who don't need to be admitted.
Jingle said that is what is happening in Canada, I know it's happening here in Argentina as well and I think I read something similar is happening in the UK.

We got a note from the Superintendent of Schools from our old town (shitty school system; I've written about it before) and they are "hour to hour" on COVID and school.   I'm not sure what that means - they're just going to send kids home at random? - but the emphasis was less on STUDENTS getting it than on not having available staff.   He didn't go into details as to whether that meant staff WITH COVID or staff WITHOUT vaccines, but the point is, this isn't just about the students, or, by corollary, the patients in the hospitals.  It's as much about who is going to take care of them.

Honestly, that seems like a bigger problem to me, since if it's JUST about bed space, you can bully that, right?  Put beds in the hall.  Make-shift beds out of tables.  Etc.  But if there's no one to treat, the next person that comes in with a heart attack, or a snake bite, or a car accident, they might as well just stay home, because the level of medical expertise will be the same (i.e. NONE) if there isn't a doctor or nurse present.

First off, best wishes to your family... I know this is tough. We are also currently in a similar situation with our son, but he seems to be making it through fine.

As far as I understand it, almost any time "beds" have been mentioned in one of these situations, what has been meant is really staffing, not beds. So beds are a bit of a misnomer the draws everyone's attention to those photos of people pouring into hospital hallways in India and Italy. That seems unlikely to happen in the US, at least most places, even at the current rate of spread.

I'm not sure why people say "beds" because it seems to oversimplify the problem in a way that is on the surface actually very alarming, but perhaps less alarming than the real problem of there simply not being enough highly certified people necessary to take care of how many people are getting sick.

By the way... also as far as I understand it, this is a problem with the healthcare system that didn't begin with COVID, it's just being exasperated by it. Hospitals, as a rule, are understaffed and nurses overworked, even with the appalling amount of money thrown at healthcare in this country. Something has to give. No one wants to see the system completely collapse because that means more people will die. The silver lining, I suppose, is that it might just take that for it to actually get fixed.

[cramx3]

Thanks. No, not too bad, like a normal flu. My girlfriend (we live together) has tested negative yet she is sicker than me.  We are both in isolation as of today as we work in same place. On the plus side, this finally gives me time to put some hours into Red Dead Redemption 2 that I installed last week on my PC 

It's weird how this happens.  My sister was exposed to covid, but her husband tested positive (he wasn't exposed directly) and my sister tested negative.  Both were sick, so we assume they just both have covid.  My brother and his gf felt sick, only she tested positive not my brother but they live together and both are ill, we assume they both have covid.  My gf and I are both sick, while we don't live together, we had spent the holidays together and our time outside our homes together.  Only I tested positive but we both are ill.  I think we are just assuming she's got covid too, although she's getting a PCR today which should really confirm.  It's very odd, but I just think it's very likely the anti-gen tests aren't great at detecting omicron. None of those examples included a PCR test.

Anyway, get well soon.  Day 6 of symptoms for me and my head is still heavy but the congestion finally seems to be fading.  I've had difficulty breathing not from my lungs but from my nose being so damn stuffy.  I'm so over this now. Just want to go back to my life and get out of this house, but seems I'll be here until Monday the earliest.

[Chino]

I think the more likely scenario is that hospitals are overrun because nurses and doctors are getting covid and need to be isolated, not because they are admitting people who don't need to be admitted.
Jingle said that is what is happening in Canada, I know it's happening here in Argentina as well and I think I read something similar is happening in the UK.

We got a note from the Superintendent of Schools from our old town (shitty school system; I've written about it before) and they are "hour to hour" on COVID and school.   I'm not sure what that means - they're just going to send kids home at random? - but the emphasis was less on STUDENTS getting it than on not having available staff.   He didn't go into details as to whether that meant staff WITH COVID or staff WITHOUT vaccines, but the point is, this isn't just about the students, or, by corollary, the patients in the hospitals.  It's as much about who is going to take care of them.

Honestly, that seems like a bigger problem to me, since if it's JUST about bed space, you can bully that, right?  Put beds in the hall.  Make-shift beds out of tables.  Etc.  But if there's no one to treat, the next person that comes in with a heart attack, or a snake bite, or a car accident, they might as well just stay home, because the level of medical expertise will be the same (i.e. NONE) if there isn't a doctor or nurse present.

First off, best wishes to your family... I know this is tough. We are also currently in a similar situation with our son, but he seems to be making it through fine.

As far as I understand it, almost any time "beds" have been mentioned in one of these situations, what has been meant is really staffing, not beds. So beds are a bit of a misnomer the draws everyone's attention to those photos of people pouring into hospital hallways in the US and Italy. That seems unlikely to happen in the US, at least most places, even at the current rate of spread.

I'm not sure why people say "beds" because it seems to oversimplify the problem in a way that is on the surface actually very alarming, but perhaps less alarming than the real problem of there simply not being enough highly certified people necessary to take care of how many people are getting sick.

By the way... also as far as I understand it, this is a problem with the healthcare system that didn't begin with COVID, it's just being exasperated by it. Hospitals, as a rule, are understaffed and nurses overworked, even with the appalling amount of money thrown at healthcare in this country. Something has to give. No one wants to see the system completely collapse because that means more people will die. The silver lining, I suppose, is that it might just take that for it to actually get fixed.

I was going to say something similar. I remember watching an interview with a doctor from one of those makeshift tent facilities last year. The facility was empty despite a surging case count. The doctor said something like "more beds means nothing if I don't have nurses to work them".

[Ben_Jamin]

I think the more likely scenario is that hospitals are overrun because nurses and doctors are getting covid and need to be isolated, not because they are admitting people who don't need to be admitted.
Jingle said that is what is happening in Canada, I know it's happening here in Argentina as well and I think I read something similar is happening in the UK.

We got a note from the Superintendent of Schools from our old town (shitty school system; I've written about it before) and they are "hour to hour" on COVID and school.   I'm not sure what that means - they're just going to send kids home at random? - but the emphasis was less on STUDENTS getting it than on not having available staff.   He didn't go into details as to whether that meant staff WITH COVID or staff WITHOUT vaccines, but the point is, this isn't just about the students, or, by corollary, the patients in the hospitals.  It's as much about who is going to take care of them.

Honestly, that seems like a bigger problem to me, since if it's JUST about bed space, you can bully that, right?  Put beds in the hall.  Make-shift beds out of tables.  Etc.  But if there's no one to treat, the next person that comes in with a heart attack, or a snake bite, or a car accident, they might as well just stay home, because the level of medical expertise will be the same (i.e. NONE) if there isn't a doctor or nurse present.

First off, best wishes to your family... I know this is tough. We are also currently in a similar situation with our son, but he seems to be making it through fine.

As far as I understand it, almost any time "beds" have been mentioned in one of these situations, what has been meant is really staffing, not beds. So beds are a bit of a misnomer the draws everyone's attention to those photos of people pouring into hospital hallways in the US and Italy. That seems unlikely to happen in the US, at least most places, even at the current rate of spread.

I'm not sure why people say "beds" because it seems to oversimplify the problem in a way that is on the surface actually very alarming, but perhaps less alarming than the real problem of there simply not being enough highly certified people necessary to take care of how many people are getting sick.

By the way... also as far as I understand it, this is a problem with the healthcare system that didn't begin with COVID, it's just being exasperated by it. Hospitals, as a rule, are understaffed and nurses overworked, even with the appalling amount of money thrown at healthcare in this country. Something has to give. No one wants to see the system completely collapse because that means more people will die. The silver lining, I suppose, is that it might just take that for it to actually get fixed.

Precisely. The Healthcare System itself was not that great. What could be done is making it easier to get the training to become a nurse, or make the education to become a nurse less complicated to achieve. By this I mean in terms of the costs of tuition and also the costs of attending an accredited school to be a qualified nurse. Are the people that get an education and graduate at a place like PIMA, or a secondary college, qualified to even get hired at a hospital?

What I see is all entirely human behavior. In this case, the behavior and attitude is based on does anyone even want to become a nurse or have job/career in the health field?

Thanks. No, not too bad, like a normal flu. My girlfriend (we live together) has tested negative yet she is sicker than me.  We are both in isolation as of today as we work in same place. On the plus side, this finally gives me time to put some hours into Red Dead Redemption 2 that I installed last week on my PC 

It's weird how this happens.  My sister was exposed to covid, but her husband tested positive (he wasn't exposed directly) and my sister tested negative.  Both were sick, so we assume they just both have covid.  My brother and his gf felt sick, only she tested positive not my brother but they live together and both are ill, we assume they both have covid.  My gf and I are both sick, while we don't live together, we had spent the holidays together and our time outside our homes together.  Only I tested positive but we both are ill.  I think we are just assuming she's got covid too, although she's getting a PCR today which should really confirm.  It's very odd, but I just think it's very likely the anti-gen tests aren't great at detecting omicron. None of those examples included a PCR test.

Anyway, get well soon.  Day 6 of symptoms for me and my head is still heavy but the congestion finally seems to be fading.  I've had difficulty breathing not from my lungs but from my nose being so damn stuffy.  I'm so over this now. Just want to go back to my life and get out of this house, but seems I'll be here until Monday the earliest.

Take this bolded part and add in the mindset of people who assume it's a common cold and go about their day because they do not want to be stuck in the home. That's what I mean by mindsets and attitudes of people. Lots of people are so over it, and will just go about their day as normal if they do not feel the symptoms are bad and will assume it's a common cold, without getting a test to make sure. It's the same mindset and attitude as you assuming those people who did not take PCR tests or go see their doctors to see if it is a common cold are sick with Covid.

It's not weird at all. Humans are wired differently that what works for you, may not work for your partner. But it may work for your family members who do share some DNA and similar designs in structure to you. That's what makes you unique as a human being, and also why equity is difficult to achieve as an outcome as these differences in what makes an individual unique have to be addressed as well.

[Grappler]

Cram - have you tried a Breathe Right strip?   When my kids were babies, I didn't want to take Nyquil at night when I was sick.  I needed to stay lucid and be awake every few hours to feed them.

Breathe Right strips helped me a lot then and I still use them.  Your head and nose get stuffed up, but it opens your nostril enough to still breathe, especially while laying down.

[ProfessorPeart]

Test results came in for my wife and son, both negative. My daughter is still isolating and still has no taste or smell. She has occasional breathing issues as well.

I just really don't want this, even though I know it is almost inevitable. My allergies and asthma are enough as it is. I don't need something else making it worse for me.

[cramx3]

Cram - have you tried a Breathe Right strip?   When my kids were babies, I didn't want to take Nyquil at night when I was sick.  I needed to stay lucid and be awake every few hours to feed them.

Breathe Right strips helped me a lot then and I still use them.  Your head and nose get stuffed up, but it opens your nostril enough to still breathe, especially while laying down.

I had not. I may have some still though from testing them out from snoring years ago.

[Stadler]

Test results came in for my wife and son, both negative. My daughter is still isolating and still has no taste or smell. She has occasional breathing issues as well.

I just really don't want this, even though I know it is almost inevitable. My allergies and asthma are enough as it is. I don't need something else making it worse for me.

It's funny, Prof; I was thinking something similar this morning.  It seems like it's all around me, and it FEELS like it's inevitable (and I might even say "I feel like I must've had it by now") but my God, I really just don't want to see that "positive".   I don't have asthma, but in terms of my daily obligations, it would REALLY send the family into a tizzy (I do all the cooking, I do most of the driving my stepson to and from school, etc.).

[jingle.boy]

My usual go-to sickness in the winter is a bronchitis / chest-infection.  Seeing as how susceptible I've always been for that, I'm not terribly eager to test my luck with 'rona.

[ProfessorPeart]

Feels like the fogey thread all of a sudden. 

[wolfking]

Sad to read a lot of these posts.  Hope everyone and their families recover quickly.

So, in my workplace I now have 5 staff members confirmed positive and 4 waiting on results with 3 of them looking like leaning towards the positive side.  Interesting to note that all 9 of these people are vaccinated.  To say this virus is putting a strain on businesses is a severe understatement.  My workload is already large but this is becoming a nightmare.

[King Postwhore]

My usual go-to sickness in the winter is a bronchitis / chest-infection.  Seeing as how susceptible I've always been for that, I'm not terribly eager to test my luck with 'rona.

Same for me.  My cough lingers for months.

[XeRocks81]

since december 24th my parents have had to be tested twice because of people they were in contact with,  thankfully it's been negative both times but damn it just keep happening, there's just no escaping it.

[Cool Chris]

So a guy at work has Covid (apparently, I am not sure how much I trust him...) He is at a job site that is currently unoccupied, working by himself. I had to take some materials to him, so left them on the porch and texted him that they were there. He came out to tell me something, and I had a moment of panic. It was the first time ever I was within speaking distance of someone whom I knew to have Covid.

[TAC]

So a guy at work has Covid (apparently, I am not sure how much I trust him...) He is at a job site that is currently unoccupied, working by himself. I had to take some materials to him, so left them on the porch and texted him that they were there. He came out to tell me something, and I had a moment of panic. It was the first time ever I was within speaking distance of someone whom I knew to have Covid.

I wouldn't worry. By this point, you've probably been within speaking distance of a number of people who've had Covid.

[Cool Chris]

I came to terms with the possibility, or probability, a long time ago. Today was just the first time I knew for a fact (again, according to him) that I spoke with someone who had it.

[TAC]

I came to terms with the possibility, or probability, a long time ago. Today was just the first time I knew for a fact (again, according to him) that I spoke with someone who had it.

I can see how that'd be weird.

[Cool Chris]

One of the benefits of having such a small circle, I guess. I know more people on this forum who have had it than I've known about in real life. The only person close to me is my brother-in-law's sister (if that counts as close) and she was fine after a couple days.

My wife has a couple kids out with possible Covid. She teaches some medically fragile kids, so basically told all the parents "if your kid so much as sneezes, keep them home."

[Chino]

I know a lot of people IRL that have gotten/have Covid. I've heard all kinds of reasons about how they were exposed. However, and I know this is anecdotal, I don't know a single person who's said something along the lines of "I don't know how we got it we were all masked". Every single person I know that got it did so because they were unmasked around the person they got it from. The place I work on Sundays has people (masks required) in tight kitchen spaces shoulder to shoulder, with many employees being front-facing and interacting with the public. There hasn't been an outbreak in any of our four locations. Maybe masks do do the trick.

[lonestar]

I know a lot of people IRL that have gotten/have Covid. I've heard all kinds of reasons about how they were exposed. However, and I know this is anecdotal, I don't know a single person who's said something along the lines of "I don't know how we got it we were all masked". Every single person I know that got it did so because they were unmased around the person the got it from. The place I work on Sundays has people (masks required) in tight kitchen spaces shoulder to shoulder, with many employees being front-facing and interacting with the public. There hasn't been an outbreak in any of our four locations. Maybe masks do do the trick.

I've had a similar experience with Whole Foods...at peak times we'll have ten to fifteen shoppers in a tight space. It's CA, so we've been masked the whole time, and while we've had cases, every case has been traced to outside transfer.

[Stadler]

My usual go-to sickness in the winter is a bronchitis / chest-infection.  Seeing as how susceptible I've always been for that, I'm not terribly eager to test my luck with 'rona.

Same for me.  My cough lingers for months.

I'm a sniffles guy.  Back pre-'rona, I could always be counted on to have a tissue or two in my pocket to counter the sniffles. 

[Stadler]

I know a lot of people IRL that have gotten/have Covid. I've heard all kinds of reasons about how they were exposed. However, and I know this is anecdotal, I don't know a single person who's said something along the lines of "I don't know how we got it we were all masked". Every single person I know that got it did so because they were unmased around the person the got it from. The place I work on Sundays has people (masks required) in tight kitchen spaces shoulder to shoulder, with many employees being front-facing and interacting with the public. There hasn't been an outbreak in any of our four locations. Maybe masks do do the trick.

I've had a similar experience with Whole Foods...at peak times we'll have ten to fifteen shoppers in a tight space. It's CA, so we've been masked the whole time, and while we've had cases, every case has been traced to outside transfer.

I was talking with my boss about this; I've flown 12 times since November 1 (I count each leg as "one time"; so I flew to three locations) as has my boss.  We know for a FACT that there was one person on one of his flights that had COVID while flying (long story, didn't really have a ton of options to get back home for an unrelated medical reason) so I can only surmise that I was on at least one flight with one person with the COVIDs.   I have tested negative somewhere on the order of 6 or 7 times in that span.  With all that, and a rash of COVID positives amongst family, friends, and co-workers, we don't know of any person that caught COVID from a flight.   

But I'm skeptical.  There are people eating and drinking.  Wearing their masks around their chins.  Sitting at the airport bar with no mask at all.  It's certainly not a foolproof scenario.

I am no Qanon conspiracy theorist, but I think this is proof of nothing more than we don't know as much as we think we know about the coronavirus and it's transmitability.

[TAC]

Bill, how are your folks making out?

[Adami]

Bill, how are your folks making out?

Gross.

But how are they?

[TAC]

Bill, how are your folks making out?

Gross.

Wait..people pay to see you for their issues?

[Stadler]

You know, it's funny.  Adami DOES clearly have issues, but my parents are interesting in this way.  Married 57 years this past November, and it was crazy to watch them while they were apart.  This is the shit that Nicholas Sparks writes about.   My mom, 84, 110 pounds, max and walking with a cane, trying to lean over and kiss my dad goodbye when we left the hospital room.  I envy them in that way.

But they are doing better.  Mom's symptoms are not gone but they are better each day.  My dad has symptoms (though I'm not 100% clear if he ACTUALLY tested positive or is just in quarantine because of proximity) but they are status quo.  It's the equivalent of them getting a reasonably bad seasonal cold at this point, so I am grateful beyond words. 

[TAC]

That's great to hear, Bill.