Coronavirus Thread v.2

[jingle.boy]

NBA postpones 5 games
NHL suspends cross border games
NFL is only testing symptomatic people.  SMFH.

I seriously feel Omicron has time warped us back to March 2020.  The prevailing sense here is that it’s not a matter of IF you will catch it, but WHEN. Daily case counts here in Ontario are up as much as 10x in the last 6 weeks, and we’ll surpass the previous highest daily number before Santa arrives

Merry fucking Christmas. 

[TAC]

What difference does it make if the Islanders go to Toronto or to Buffalo? That's stupid.

[jingle.boy]

What difference does it make if the Islanders go to Toronto or to Buffalo? That's stupid.

Cmon man... the US knows a thing or two about nationalism and border restriction/controls

[TAC]

What difference does it make if the Islanders go to Toronto or to Buffalo? That's stupid.

Cmon man... the US knows a thing or two about nationalism and border restriction/controls

Seriously though, I heard that and was like WTF?  And it's not a bustin' on Canada thing. I just think it's fucking stupid.

So the Oilers can play in Montreal, but the Red Wings can't? Does that make any fucking sense?

[Anguyen92]

I just need to get on the plane back to the OC tomorrow afternoon and I can live with things shutting down again.

[cramx3]

The Netherlands expanded on their lockdowns yesterday, basically the place is empty and you can't do much of anything it seems.  Crossing the border doesn't seem much different though other than now needing to take a test to enter the Netherlands (I got in without having to do so, in fact I didn't even show them my vaccine at customs and was only asked my status).  I still need to take a test within 24 hours of leaving on Thursday.

[jingle.boy]

What difference does it make if the Islanders go to Toronto or to Buffalo? That's stupid.

Cmon man... the US knows a thing or two about nationalism and border restriction/controls

Seriously though, I heard that and was like WTF?  And it's not a bustin' on Canada thing. I just think it's fucking stupid.

So the Oilers can play in Montreal, but the Red Wings can't? Does that make any fucking sense?

To some degree, yes.  The outbreaks in Canada are far more severe than they are in the US.  We didn't start administering boosters until a few weeks ago - you guys were doing it in the summer.  After thinking about it some more last night, it's probably more for the protection of the players on the US teams than the other way around.  The spread in QB and ON is literally out of control

[cramx3]

What difference does it make if the Islanders go to Toronto or to Buffalo? That's stupid.

Cmon man... the US knows a thing or two about nationalism and border restriction/controls

Seriously though, I heard that and was like WTF?  And it's not a bustin' on Canada thing. I just think it's fucking stupid.

So the Oilers can play in Montreal, but the Red Wings can't? Does that make any fucking sense?

To some degree, yes.  The outbreaks in Canada are far more severe than they are in the US.  We didn't start administering boosters until a few weeks ago - you guys were doing it in the summer.  After thinking about it some more last night, it's probably more for the protection of the players on the US teams than the other way around.  The spread in QB and ON is literally out of control

Might actually be to just avoid testing players in/out of the country and causing more game cancellations

[jingle.boy]

^ Possibly, but the NHL did announce that they were going back to last year's policies regarding overall testing, masking, distancing, socializing etc...  As one headline I saw this morning stated, "NFL, NBA, NHL resume protocols they should’ve never quit ..... It never made sense to relax protocols in any league where players and staff speak, sweat, spit, and evacuate themselves in communal settings. But, you know, freedoms."

[ZKX-2099]

it’s not a matter of IF you will catch it, but WHEN.

That's always been the case.

[cramx3]

it’s not a matter of IF you will catch it, but WHEN.

That's always been the case.

Yeah, I've been saying that for a long time.   You get vaccinated, you get covid, or both.  Basically no one is escaping this, although I'm sure that's not 100% correct as there may be some people with some natural immunity, but even then, i'd imagine that immunity has or will be put to the test and it's certainly not worth the risk IMO to pretend that if you've made it this far without a vaccine or infection that you have natural immunity.  Our bodies either have been or will be put to the covid test, best to be prepared with a full vaccine regiment and if it's been long enough since then, get a booster.   

[hunnus2000]

it’s not a matter of IF you will catch it, but WHEN.

That's always been the case.

Yeah, I've been saying that for a long time.   You get vaccinated, you get covid, or both.  Basically no one is escaping this, although I'm sure that's not 100% correct as there may be some people with some natural immunity, but even then, i'd imagine that immunity has or will be put to the test and it's certainly not worth the risk IMO to pretend that if you've made it this far without a vaccine or infection that you have natural immunity.  Our bodies either have been or will be put to the covid test, best to be prepared with a full vaccine regiment and if it's been long enough since then, get a booster.   

How can the human body have natural immunity to a disease it has never encountered? I truly believe I had COVID and my body fought it off but do people consider that natural immunity because II don't. My body just learned how to adjust.

I'm not rebutting your post but it's always been a mystery when I see "natural immunity" i am always perplexed.

[cramx3]

it’s not a matter of IF you will catch it, but WHEN.

That's always been the case.

Yeah, I've been saying that for a long time.   You get vaccinated, you get covid, or both.  Basically no one is escaping this, although I'm sure that's not 100% correct as there may be some people with some natural immunity, but even then, i'd imagine that immunity has or will be put to the test and it's certainly not worth the risk IMO to pretend that if you've made it this far without a vaccine or infection that you have natural immunity.  Our bodies either have been or will be put to the covid test, best to be prepared with a full vaccine regiment and if it's been long enough since then, get a booster.   

How can the human body have natural immunity to a disease it has never encountered? I truly believe I had COVID and my body fought it off but do people consider that natural immunity because II don't. My body just learned how to adjust.

I'm not rebutting your post but it's always been a mystery when I see "natural immunity" i am always perplexed.

I think what you described is natural immunity, you fought it off without illness.  At least that is my understanding.  I could be wrong.

[King Postwhore]

I would assume, most athletes have very little issues with the virus but someone in my shape would.

[XeRocks81]

4571 new cases over 24 hours in Quebec, intensive care beds at 50% already.   Schools (primary and secondary), movie theaters, bars, clubs, live venues, gyms, etc.  all closed again.  Restaurants still open at half capacity but only until 10pm.   

For movie theaters (and to certain extent live shows) it's starting to feel off,  there just hasn't been any evidence that they are big vectors of transmission ever since they reopened.  I but suppose in the wide view it's just to hammer home the message of reducing your contacts with other people as much as possible.  Still a bummer though.

[Ben_Jamin]

it’s not a matter of IF you will catch it, but WHEN.

That's always been the case.

Yeah, I've been saying that for a long time.   You get vaccinated, you get covid, or both.  Basically no one is escaping this, although I'm sure that's not 100% correct as there may be some people with some natural immunity, but even then, i'd imagine that immunity has or will be put to the test and it's certainly not worth the risk IMO to pretend that if you've made it this far without a vaccine or infection that you have natural immunity.  Our bodies either have been or will be put to the covid test, best to be prepared with a full vaccine regiment and if it's been long enough since then, get a booster.   

How can the human body have natural immunity to a disease it has never encountered? I truly believe I had COVID and my body fought it off but do people consider that natural immunity because II don't. My body just learned how to adjust.

I'm not rebutting your post but it's always been a mystery when I see "natural immunity" i am always perplexed.

I think what you described is natural immunity, you fought it off without illness.  At least that is my understanding.  I could be wrong.

That's what I thought it is too and why a human gets sick in the first place.

I thought it's because your immune system makes antibodies to fight off whatever your body is rejecting and doesn't want inside of it. And if you have underlying conditions or other health issues, it puts stress on the immune system as it's making more antibodies to fight off the priority illness, therefore neglecting the other health issues/underlying conditions and preventing those organs, or wherever the illness/underlying condition is from healing. Or at least not stressing the immune system so the health issues/underlying conditions are stable and tolerable, or go into remission. And I thought this is why those people can get worse and die if they do catch a more severe illness or disease.



Stress in general can affect your Immune System...

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/what-happens-when-your-immune-system-gets-stressed-out/

Stress occurs when life events surpass your abilities to cope. It causes your body to produce greater levels of the stress hormone cortisol.

In short spurts, cortisol can boost your immunity by limiting inflammation. But over time, your body can get used to having too much cortisol in your blood. And this opens the door for more inflammation, Dr. Calabrese says.

In addition, stress decreases the body’s lymphocytes — the white blood cells that help fight off infection. The lower your lymphocyte level, the more at risk you are for viruses, including the common cold and cold sores.

High stress levels also can cause depression and anxiety, again leading to higher levels of inflammation. In the long-term, sustained, high levels of inflammation point to an overworked, over-tired immune system that can’t properly protect you.

Under sustained, long-term stress, you also can develop cardiovascular problems, including a fast heart rate and heart disease, as well as gastric ulcers. You’ll also be at greater risk for type 2 diabetes, various cancers and mental decline.

There's many things that are happening that are causing more stress than alleviating it. I don't know why people aren't doing anything to de-stress if it can have that much of an affect on healing from a virus?

[jingle.boy]

It's like nobody remembered/learned from the first round of restrictions and shut downs.  Actions taken now are not going to have an impact for at least 1-2 weeks.  Individuals that test positive yesterday had their exposure probably a week+ ago.  So, the point of what (for example) the QB gov't is doing now is so that cases don't go to 20k/day by the 2nd week of January.  It's all but assured that QB (and Ontario for that matter) will be seeing 10k/day by end of the month.

[Melphina]

I truly believe people are still making a mountain out of a molehill of this. It's not the end of the world. Put on a mask and go about your lives as usual. All the tracking of numbers, cases etc... cool. You'd also probably be peeing your pants if you were tracking flu cases and deaths over the last few years or decades yeah? This thing isn't going anywhere so you might as well get busy living or get busy dying

[WilliamMunny]

I truly believe people are still making a mountain out of a molehill of this. It's not the end of the world. Put on a mask and go about your lives as usual. All the tracking of numbers, cases etc... cool. You'd also probably be peeing your pants if you were tracking flu cases and deaths over the last few years or decades yeah? This thing isn't going anywhere so you might as well get busy living or get busy dying

Respectfully, this sort of thinking makes me cringe.

Ten years ago, when I was single, I'd probably have said the same thing, but with a wife and kids, I will reserve the right to make a mountain out of anything I believe is an imminent danger to my family.

My brother in law just spent 2 weeks in the ICU...is home now with an oxygen tank and a 400k hospital bill on the way. My sister tested positive last night, and she is scared to death. Comparing this to the flu is so off base I don't even know what else to say.

[Skeever]

It's like nobody remembered/learned from the first round of restrictions and shut downs.  Actions taken now are not going to have an impact for at least 1-2 weeks.  Individuals that test positive yesterday had their exposure probably a week+ ago.  So, the point of what (for example) the QB gov't is doing now is so that cases don't go to 20k/day by the 2nd week of January.  It's all but assured that QB (and Ontario for that matter) will be seeing 10k/day by end of the month.

Or maybe we DID learn, and that's why you're seeing what you are seeing now. Americans, maybe even Westerners to a large extent, will simply refuse to comply with lockdowns and will only tolerate restrictions so far. People see the statements of the WHO director and Fauci as almost farcical this point - what they are prescribing is just not conducive to life as anyone knows it. Rather than punishing people by shutting down or limiting services they rely on (at who knows what cost), better to just get on with life as safely as possible at this point.

[jingle.boy]

It's like nobody remembered/learned from the first round of restrictions and shut downs.  Actions taken now are not going to have an impact for at least 1-2 weeks.  Individuals that test positive yesterday had their exposure probably a week+ ago.  So, the point of what (for example) the QB gov't is doing now is so that cases don't go to 20k/day by the 2nd week of January.  It's all but assured that QB (and Ontario for that matter) will be seeing 10k/day by end of the month.

Or maybe we DID learn, and that's why you're seeing what you are seeing now. Americans, maybe even Westerners to a large extent, will simply refuse to comply with lockdowns and will only tolerate restrictions so far. People see the statements of the WHO director and Fauci as almost farcical this point - what they are prescribing is just not conducive to life as anyone knows it. Rather than punishing people by shutting down or limiting services they rely on (at who knows what cost), better to just get on with life as safely as possible at this point.

If the majority of people would only do that (the bolded part).

Our society is so fucking privileged and entitled - valuing concerts, gyms, restaurants etc...  over the health, life, and livelihood of all.  I'm sick of all this shit too, and wish to just be done with it.  Sadly, the virus doesn't give any fucking fuck's about what I or anyone else wants.  I'll live my life under the premise of what is real, not what I wish for. 



No use in ranting though.  No one here (or elsewhere) is inclined to change their perspectives.  Self interest is self defeating.

[Grappler]

Or maybe we DID learn, and that's why you're seeing what you are seeing now. Americans, maybe even Westerners to a large extent, will simply refuse to comply with lockdowns and will only tolerate restrictions so far. People see the statements of the WHO director and Fauci as almost farcical this point - what they are prescribing is just not conducive to life as anyone knows it. Rather than punishing people by shutting down or limiting services they rely on (at who knows what cost), better to just get on with life as safely as possible at this point.

I can agree with this.  My wife watches too much news and listens to too much Fauci.  She raced out to the store to stock up on at-home covid tests, and suggested that we all take a test prior to our family Christmas parties this weekend because it's what Fauci says families should do. 

I just laughed and said "no, none of us are even sick."  "But we could still be carrying the virus and transmitting it!"   Sorry, I'm not taking a covid test if I don't have any symptoms.   

I'm not against testing - I held my daughter down and made her take an at-home test the day before my son's birthday party in October, when she had cold symptoms, and people were coming over the next day.  But if none of us are sick, wasting tests just to see if we're covid-positive and asymptomatic is silly. 

I see some of the suggestions from local government (city and state) or Fauci and just shake my head - i've been in favor of this stuff in the past.  Trying to control the spread now is impossible - it's up to people to stay healthy on their own.  A family of four (with 3 fully vaccinated) does not need to covid test regularly. 

[Melphina]

I truly believe people are still making a mountain out of a molehill of this. It's not the end of the world. Put on a mask and go about your lives as usual. All the tracking of numbers, cases etc... cool. You'd also probably be peeing your pants if you were tracking flu cases and deaths over the last few years or decades yeah? This thing isn't going anywhere so you might as well get busy living or get busy dying

Respectfully, this sort of thinking makes me cringe.

Ten years ago, when I was single, I'd probably have said the same thing, but with a wife and kids, I will reserve the right to make a mountain out of anything I believe is an imminent danger to my family.

My brother in law just spent 2 weeks in the ICU...is home now with an oxygen tank and a 400k hospital bill on the way. My sister tested positive last night, and she is scared to death. Comparing this to the flu is so off base I don't even know what else to say.

I really don't think it is off base, but I do apologize if I offended you.

[Skeever]

Our society is so fucking privileged and entitled - valuing concerts, gyms, restaurants etc...  over the health, life, and livelihood of all.  I'm sick of all this shit too, and wish to just be done with it.  Sadly, the virus doesn't give any fucking fuck's about what I or anyone else wants.  I'll live my life under the premise of what is real, not what I wish for. 

If only it were that simple. While I'd argue that concerts, gyms, restaurants, etc., are pretty important, even if they exist at some level of risk to the public health, it's not just other people's entertainment that you're turning up your nose at.  For better or worse, we live in a capitalist country. People need to work - by in large in the service industry - to survive. Lockdowns of schools, daycares, and other public services means that parents must leave their jobs to take care of their children - this could be teachers, nurses, first responders, utility workers, food service workers, transit workers, and who knows what else. As far as I can tell, opposition to lockdowns resonates with the working class because they've had to be the most inconvenienced by it - and often they are the "essentials" who have had to work through it, while the few state services they rely on become unreliable. Meanwhile, the bourgeois are quite comfortable to work their office jobs from home forever, even if these jobs are predicated on the existence of a lower class who MUST show up to the job site regardless of what Fauci says.

If I thought we were capable of stopping the economy for a few months, I'd be with you. But that's just not the case. You don't get to play the game where you let yourself feel superior to your fellow man because you "support" greater lockdowns when society and the economy are structured in such a way where the advice our officials are giving us is totally impotent and unrealistic. We are ALL struggling with how to move forward, you do not get to be the moral arbiter of where people are allowed to have their breaking points.

[Ben_Jamin]

Our society is so fucking privileged and entitled - valuing concerts, gyms, restaurants etc...  over the health, life, and livelihood of all.  I'm sick of all this shit too, and wish to just be done with it.  Sadly, the virus doesn't give any fucking fuck's about what I or anyone else wants.  I'll live my life under the premise of what is real, not what I wish for. 

If only it were that simple. While I'd argue that concerts, gyms, restaurants, etc., are pretty important, even if they exist at some level of risk to the public health, it's not just other people's entertainment that you're turning up your nose at.  For better or worse, we live in a capitalist country. People need to work - by in large in the service industry - to survive. Lockdowns of schools, daycares, and other public services means that parents must leave their jobs to take care of their children - this could be teachers, nurses, first responders, utility workers, food service workers, transit workers, and who knows what else. As far as I can tell, opposition to lockdowns resonates with the working class because they've had to be the most inconvenienced by it - and often they are the "essentials" who have had to work through it, while the few state services they rely on become unreliable. Meanwhile, the bourgeois are quite comfortable to work their office jobs from home forever, even if these jobs are predicated on the existence of a lower class who MUST show up to the job site regardless of what Fauci says.

If I thought we were capable of stopping the economy for a few months, I'd be with you. But that's just not the case. You don't get to play the game where you let yourself feel superior to your fellow man because you "support" greater lockdowns when society and the economy are structured in such a way where the advice our officials are giving us is totally impotent and unrealistic. We are ALL struggling with how to move forward, you do not get to be the moral arbiter of where people are allowed to have their breaking points.

That's looking at the overall Bigger Picture that is This Earth and What constitutes our very livelihoods of our human societies lifestyles.

I'll say it again...If we talk about consequences and outcomes. This is the consequence of having all these comforts, privileges, and entitlements to make our lives more simple and easier. What this brought to human life is more detrimental than it is beneficial. As consequences and outcomes take time to be revealed and understood by humans, we are now barely seeing what the outcomes and consequences are for mass production and urbanizing the entire human Populations.

The Bigger Picture is looking and analyzing the puzzle pieces that make up the Bigger Picture. These Puzzle pieces are the very things that form our human fabric of our societal behaviors, livelihoods, and sustanence.

It's why I am the way I am about this virus and in no way fearful of it. To me, we Humans are reaping what we sow by the very things we did to the Earth. It's just the consequences of industrialization, urbanization, and toxification of the water, soil, and the air.

[Stadler]

It's like nobody remembered/learned from the first round of restrictions and shut downs.  Actions taken now are not going to have an impact for at least 1-2 weeks.  Individuals that test positive yesterday had their exposure probably a week+ ago.  So, the point of what (for example) the QB gov't is doing now is so that cases don't go to 20k/day by the 2nd week of January.  It's all but assured that QB (and Ontario for that matter) will be seeing 10k/day by end of the month.

The problem is, other than the vaccine, none of those "restrictions" and "shut downs" necessarily had the impact that we (wish, think, hope) they did.  There are probably 10 articles over the last 18 months in the New York Times about how this virus has defied expectation at almost every turn. We THINK we can control it, but we can't.  Florida/California. Two WILDLY divergent approaches, and numbers that aren't all that different.   Where are all the stories of "superspreader" (HATE that expression) events tied to airplanes and airports?

Again, when we talk of these things, we are NOT solving the problem we are simply adjusting the odds slightly in our favor. 

And by the by, it seems as if each new variant has a shorter incubation time; the "original" was averaging five days, Delta averaged about four days, and now, with early data, Omicron seems to be averaging about three days to incubate.  That is HUGE in terms of viral transmissability. 

[Skeever]

Or maybe we DID learn, and that's why you're seeing what you are seeing now. Americans, maybe even Westerners to a large extent, will simply refuse to comply with lockdowns and will only tolerate restrictions so far. People see the statements of the WHO director and Fauci as almost farcical this point - what they are prescribing is just not conducive to life as anyone knows it. Rather than punishing people by shutting down or limiting services they rely on (at who knows what cost), better to just get on with life as safely as possible at this point.

I can agree with this.  My wife watches too much news and listens to too much Fauci.  She raced out to the store to stock up on at-home covid tests, and suggested that we all take a test prior to our family Christmas parties this weekend because it's what Fauci says families should do. 

I just laughed and said "no, none of us are even sick."  "But we could still be carrying the virus and transmitting it!"   Sorry, I'm not taking a covid test if I don't have any symptoms.   

I'm not against testing - I held my daughter down and made her take an at-home test the day before my son's birthday party in October, when she had cold symptoms, and people were coming over the next day.  But if none of us are sick, wasting tests just to see if we're covid-positive and asymptomatic is silly. 

I see some of the suggestions from local government (city and state) or Fauci and just shake my head - i've been in favor of this stuff in the past.  Trying to control the spread now is impossible - it's up to people to stay healthy on their own.  A family of four (with 3 fully vaccinated) does not need to covid test regularly.

Masking in public and vaccines should be widely encouraged. Temperature checks at the door are fine with me. We can carry this forward in perpetuity for all I care. Testing vaccinated, asymptomatic people is complete insanity. This thing will never end while that nice little industry is humming along.

Let alone how hard it is getting to get actual healthcare for other, more dangerous illnesses these days.

[Ben_Jamin]

Or maybe we DID learn, and that's why you're seeing what you are seeing now. Americans, maybe even Westerners to a large extent, will simply refuse to comply with lockdowns and will only tolerate restrictions so far. People see the statements of the WHO director and Fauci as almost farcical this point - what they are prescribing is just not conducive to life as anyone knows it. Rather than punishing people by shutting down or limiting services they rely on (at who knows what cost), better to just get on with life as safely as possible at this point.

I can agree with this.  My wife watches too much news and listens to too much Fauci.  She raced out to the store to stock up on at-home covid tests, and suggested that we all take a test prior to our family Christmas parties this weekend because it's what Fauci says families should do. 

I just laughed and said "no, none of us are even sick."  "But we could still be carrying the virus and transmitting it!"   Sorry, I'm not taking a covid test if I don't have any symptoms.   

I'm not against testing - I held my daughter down and made her take an at-home test the day before my son's birthday party in October, when she had cold symptoms, and people were coming over the next day.  But if none of us are sick, wasting tests just to see if we're covid-positive and asymptomatic is silly. 

I see some of the suggestions from local government (city and state) or Fauci and just shake my head - i've been in favor of this stuff in the past.  Trying to control the spread now is impossible - it's up to people to stay healthy on their own.  A family of four (with 3 fully vaccinated) does not need to covid test regularly.

Masking in public and vaccines should be widely encouraged. Temperature checks at the door are fine with me. We can carry this forward in perpetuity for all I care. Testing vaccinated, asymptomatic people is complete insanity. This thing will never end while that nice little industry is humming along.

Let alone how hard it is getting to get actual healthcare for other, more dangerous illnesses these days.

Exactly. Where our industries of health that good to begin with. Did everyone go and get seen before the pandemic? Were people not dying when they went to the hospitals before Covid?

The effects of consequences from the industrialization of our medicines, which cultures before industrialization utilized plants and had techniques for utilizing the medicinal properties of these plants.

[Grappler]

The problem is, other than the vaccine, none of those "restrictions" and "shut downs" necessarily had the impact that we (wish, think, hope) they did.  There are probably 10 articles over the last 18 months in the New York Times about how this virus has defied expectation at almost every turn. We THINK we can control it, but we can't.  Florida/California. Two WILDLY divergent approaches, and numbers that aren't all that different.   Where are all the stories of "superspreader" (HATE that expression) events tied to airplanes and airports?

I truly believe that masking in public eliminates the majority of the risk.  I have yet to feel uncomfortable while riding the commuter train into Chicago, unless someone sits near me and takes their mask off.  I actually switched seats on the train yesterday because of that - I need to stay healthy for my family to get through this weekend and our Christmas parties.  So I'll adjust my behavior accordingly.

I actually explained that to my wife, who is feeling overwhelmed with the number of cases shooting upwards again.  I told her that we just need to tune all of that out and do what we need to do for our family.  Let's just focus on getting through this weekend without getting sick - one day at a time.

Masking in public and vaccines should be widely encouraged. Temperature checks at the door are fine with me. We can carry this forward in perpetuity for all I care. Testing vaccinated, asymptomatic people is complete insanity. This thing will never end while that nice little industry is humming along.

Let alone how hard it is getting to get actual healthcare for other, more dangerous illnesses these days.

I'm all for wearing my mask in public.  I stopped over the summer when cases were going down after the initial wave of vaccinations, then started again as the Delta wave came through.  We do it to set an example for our kids, but with cases climbing, it certainly makes me feel safer to be around people.  I have to wear one while on the commuter train, and do it in the common areas of our office building or while at a restaurant or store.

[hefdaddy42]

Again, when we talk of these things, we are NOT solving the problem we are simply adjusting the odds slightly in our favor. 

Adjusting the odds in our favor is all we can ever do with almost every problem.

[jingle.boy]

You don't get to play the game where you let yourself feel superior to your fellow man because you "support" greater lockdowns when society and the economy are structured in such a way where the advice our officials are giving us is totally impotent and unrealistic. We are ALL struggling with how to move forward, you do not get to be the moral arbiter of where people are allowed to have their breaking points.

My apologies if my 'rant' came across this way.  Not intended.  I don't feel superior, nor am I trying to suggest I'm the moral arbiter - and trust me, I've come right up to my breaking point on many occasions.  We as a society are trying to balance economic health with physical health, and we're doing a pretty crappy job at both (imo).  IMO, economic health is contingent upon individual/physical health, and to some degree, vice versa.  I don't think lockdown measures are the best / right tool either.  But in the absence of broader society taking steps with easier measures (vax, mask, distancing) to stop or at least slow the spread of the virus, I understand why gov'ts feel it is a lever they need to pull. 

I remember hearing from the start of the pandemic ... the virus doesn't move.  People move the virus.  If we take steps to limit the movement of the virus, that's a good thing.  Seems not everyone gets this.  In some regards it seems we (society) have learned a lot over the last 2 years, but also learned nothing.  If only we could be as dogmatic and adaptable as the virus. 

Where are all the stories of "superspreader" (HATE that expression) events tied to airplanes and airports?

PRECISELY!!!! because all individuals in airports / planes are taking all the right precautions - whether that be the airport authorities, airlines, employees, or passengers - masking, distancing, filtration, vaccination.  See!!!  It can be done without lockdowns, but when broader society gets loose on these measures, the virus spreads.

[Stadler]

It's like nobody remembered/learned from the first round of restrictions and shut downs.  Actions taken now are not going to have an impact for at least 1-2 weeks.  Individuals that test positive yesterday had their exposure probably a week+ ago.  So, the point of what (for example) the QB gov't is doing now is so that cases don't go to 20k/day by the 2nd week of January.  It's all but assured that QB (and Ontario for that matter) will be seeing 10k/day by end of the month.

Or maybe we DID learn, and that's why you're seeing what you are seeing now. Americans, maybe even Westerners to a large extent, will simply refuse to comply with lockdowns and will only tolerate restrictions so far. People see the statements of the WHO director and Fauci as almost farcical this point - what they are prescribing is just not conducive to life as anyone knows it. Rather than punishing people by shutting down or limiting services they rely on (at who knows what cost), better to just get on with life as safely as possible at this point.

If the majority of people would only do that (the bolded part).

Our society is so fucking privileged and entitled - valuing concerts, gyms, restaurants etc...  over the health, life, and livelihood of all.  I'm sick of all this shit too, and wish to just be done with it.  Sadly, the virus doesn't give any fucking fuck's about what I or anyone else wants.  I'll live my life under the premise of what is real, not what I wish for. 

No use in ranting though.  No one here (or elsewhere) is inclined to change their perspectives.  Self interest is self defeating.

I deleted the gif, just for space.   The bold is the problem, though, isn't it?   I fully believe that I live under the premise of what is real, not what I wish for; I have written many times that reality and my wishes are WILDLY out of synch at times.  So what if we disagree on what is "real"?   I don't believe we have NEARLY as much control over this virus as we think we do.  I don't believe that what happens in Hartford, CT or Dallas, TX, or West Palm Beach, FL or Sausalito, CA has anywhere near the broad impact on the planet that we think it does. Whether the US is 50%, or 75%, or 99% vaccinated, if the rest of the world is sub-50%, we are ALWAYS going to be susceptible to variants and mutations that happen.   

I get it; we're improving odds; I've said that myself a couple times here in this thread.  And we should do that.  But if there is a bloc of people who calculate those odds differently - and I can guarantee you that there ARE people who calculate those odds differently.   We have to honor and respect that.  We just do.  I have children, and grandchildren, and I have to navigate putting them in the safest position I can; but I don't expect everyone else to share my view of what's "safest".  That's just not the way the world works.  I wish it did - my WISHES, see above - but it doesn't.  THAT'S part of the reality we should be accomodating just as much as the "reality" (in quotes because it's not really) of any batch of statistics we can serve up.  There was a post above that talked about almost 5,000 new cases in Quebec; that's out of 8 and a half MILLION people.  Just how that 8.5 million fits in is an entire discussion in and of itself. 

[jingle.boy]

Stads for starters, that's PER DAY.  Total cases in QB is about 500,000 - a disease that has infected over 5% of the population of that province in less than two years.  What is everyone supposed to do... just sluff that off?  Grin and bear it?  Carry on, nothing to see here?  Secondly, I'm pretty sure you know how math works.  TODAY, it's 5000 out of 8.5M, and on a 7-day doubling period.  At what point does the line exist whereby "well, guess we better take action" is the response.  10k?  100k?  As was (supposedly) learned in previous waves, the longer the decision to act, the more severe the actions need to be.

And no, I don't have to honor and respect someone else's risk tolerance (anti-vax, anti-mask, pro congregation) when it aggregately affects me and my family's lives and livelihood.  I don't even know what it is that you're trying to say.  "They" certainly aren't honoring and respecting my risk tolerance.

[Stadler]

Where are all the stories of "superspreader" (HATE that expression) events tied to airplanes and airports?

PRECISELY!!!! because all individuals in airports / planes are taking all the right precautions - whether that be the airport authorities, airlines, employees, or passengers - masking, distancing, filtration, vaccination.  See!!!  It can be done without lockdowns, but when broader society gets loose on these measures, the virus spreads.

Having flown eight times (that is, eight legs) over the last two months, let's not overstate this.   They are still serving refreshments on the planes. There is still the time - hours, in some cases - spent in close proximity to someone whose idea of wearing a mask is akin to a chin strap.  I do understand that airplane cabins refresh at an amazing rate (something like every three minutes, I think, on the new Boeing planes); but that's not always the case in the terminals themselves, or in the shuttles.   

[cramx3]

At what point does the line exist whereby "well, guess we better take action" is the response.  10k?  100k?  As was (supposedly) learned in previous waves, the longer the decision to act, the more severe the actions need to be.

IMO, it's not a set number but when hospitals reach the tipping point of being overwhelmed.  Whatever the % may be.  It's kind of why I am not getting too alarmed wtih omicron as our population is mostly vaccinated and if Omicron is slightly more mild, that combo should lead to hospitals not reaching that point, but if they do, IMO that is when we take action.  I'm not in favor of lockdowns because they just haven't shown to work in terms of stopping spread.  They slow it down so we only should take that action when the hospitals need that slowdown to catch up.  And this is obviously going to be different based on location.  My Dr friend is calling Omicron a "head cold"  I don't believe that is the case for the vulnerable people, but I think for the majority of the younger folk who are going to get sick, they aren't going to be severely ill.  We are at the same point we've been since the vaccines came out, the vulnerable need protection, the rest of society's chance of severe illness is extremely low and covid should not be holding back society in general. Granted, with how transmissible it is, if the cases rise so high, that WILL lead to more hospitalizations and we will see omicron become more of a problem for society. Also the numbers still show that the people with severe illness are still mostly unvaccinated.  Can't save those who choose to not be saved.

On a side note, I bumped my flight home a day earlier as with the lockdowns here and with almost the entire company on vacation, not only can I not get my work done anymore than I already have but I can't even eat in a restuarant or do anything outside of being at work.  It's just making it pointless to stick around so I'm coming home tomorrow morning and I just got a negative test result so I am covid free and clear to come back avoiding what was my biggest concern of testing positive and being stuck in Europe for Christmas.  I can thank getting that booster almost 3 weeks ago for helping me stay safe.