Author Topic: Coronavirus Thread v.2  (Read 195243 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #280 on: July 09, 2021, 12:31:07 PM »
I think it's time for vaccine mandates and vaccine passports. Children have to get vaccinated for measles, mumps etc.. before they can enroll in school.
Nobody bats an eye when they have to have a license to drive with the whole point of making our streets safer. Nobody bitches about personal freedoms when they are not allowed to smoke in a restaurant. 

This while mindset of personal freedoms and beliefs has gotten out of hand. Whatever happened to good old "personal responsibility" or doing something positive  for the greater whole of society? Governors have signed laws that prohibit businesses from requiring vaccinations of employees. Whatever happened to being pro-business?

The unvaccinated  pose a clear an present threat to all of society so it's time their for freedoms are curtailed. You want to go to a football game then you need to get vaccinated. Eat out? Vaccinate.

 What happens when a variant jumps the vaccine and now we are all in danger again?

All those are choices, not mandates.   I don't have to drive; I know plenty of people that just say no to driving.   I don't have to attend the schools that require vaccinations; I know plenty of people that home school their kids, several because they don't want poison and DNA trackers pushed into their kids' bloodstreams.

I'm glad - sincerely - you're so certain about what other people should do with their lives.   I'm not.  I don't believe we can force people do things just because there might be a benefit to "society".  How about we euthanize unrepentant killers or rapists?  How about we sterilize those with genetic abnormalities.  Go back to my post above; people CAN disagree, including on what the criteria should be for the violation of personal liberties.

OK - so if they choose not to get vaccinated, then they lose certain rights it's that simple. If you "choose" not to drive, fine but if you choose to drive then guess what you have to do?

And BTW, choosing not to drive doesn't harm anyone but choosing not to get vaccinated does harm people and possibly kill them including me.

I'm not saying throw people in jail but seriously curtailing their freedoms to protect society as a whole is not a new concept.

Look, Jingle is going to jump up my ass for this, for going "legal", but let's use the right terminology.  You don't have the RIGHT to drive.  You don't have the RIGHT to go to school (shit you not; education is not a fundamental right in the U.S.).   Abortion says that privacy IS a fundamental right.   I don't know (yet) how vaccines fit into that, but I can see a credible argument that the ability to say NO to a vaccine is a RIGHT under the U.S. Constitution, just as abortion is, and can only be limited by the standard look at fundmamental rights (compelling state interest, least restrictive means for attaining that interest, tailored narrowly to JUST that interest). 

"Harm" is this made up subjective standard.  Go to other threads where "not driving" is a harm when people can't vote, or can't get to the vaccination clinics.   There are PLENTY of things that "harm" people, or "harm" people in different ways that we don't limit, too bad, so sad.  How about we limit the insecurity that is plaguing our nation, leading to divisiveness, bigotry and worse?  That's harming me.   If you don't want to be harmed, don't go around people.  Don't send your kids to school (there's no RIGHT to go to school).   I don't mean that literally but you're doing a lot of finger pointing DEMANDING that others tailor their decisions and abridge THEIR rights for YOU. 

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #281 on: July 09, 2021, 12:37:58 PM »
Anyone who tells you it's good to die for your beliefs are radicalized.  In this day and age I hope no one is that willing to give up one's life for nothing.

Dude, people do that all the time. I believe in this bungee cord that it will save me, I have faith it will save me. Yet, it snaps and he dies. He died for his belief that the bungee will save him.

Us Native Americans died for our beliefs and values. We considered it a good day to die.

There are times when it is good to die.

And this is dependant on ones beliefs and values of Death. As death itself is viewed differently throughout the world.


All that you're saying is based on your own values and beliefs. That is your mindset. And not everyone has that same mindset as you.

Ben those beliefs that Native Americans died for were good reasons 200 years ago.  Now, we have a better understanding and can meld both worlds.  There are so many people that think the vaccine was rushed out when in fact it was worked on for decades.  Sometimes you can't always go by believe but you have to by science. 

I'm not forcing anyone to get it but in all honesty people who put their beliefs first need to do their homework and then respond.  It's obvious that the vaccine is working and there is data to back it up.

I have no problem with increased education.  I think we will get many people to - even if in secret - to put aside their vocal "beliefs" and get the vaccine if we give them data.  Calling them "unhinged" and forcing them will not get it done.


I agree with this.  I think if we try to compel people to vaccinate by some kind of legal mandate or putting in place some kind of penalty for refusing to vaccinate, it's only going to harden the position of the people resisting the vaccine.  I think a better approach is to incentivize vaccination somehow.   Now I don't know if that means limiting access to certain things only to people who can prove they've been vaccinated, or if it means we all have to carry around a vaccine status card or something like that.  I know that's a huge can of worms, but why else do we document vaccinations if it's not so that the vaccinated person can be validated as having been vaccinated?


I don't want to force people to get the vaccine, but if we make getting the vaccine more attractive than NOT getting the vaccine, maybe that will help get the numbers up.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #282 on: July 09, 2021, 12:43:59 PM »
And that's exactly what I've been saying.  I just think most will not because most won't invest in the time to do so.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #283 on: July 09, 2021, 12:44:41 PM »
Anyone who tells you it's good to die for your beliefs are radicalized.  In this day and age I hope no one is that willing to give up one's life for nothing.

Dude, people do that all the time. I believe in this bungee cord that it will save me, I have faith it will save me. Yet, it snaps and he dies. He died for his belief that the bungee will save him.

Us Native Americans died for our beliefs and values. We considered it a good day to die.

There are times when it is good to die.

And this is dependant on ones beliefs and values of Death. As death itself is viewed differently throughout the world.


All that you're saying is based on your own values and beliefs. That is your mindset. And not everyone has that same mindset as you.

Ben those beliefs that Native Americans died for were good reasons 200 years ago.  Now, we have a better understanding and can meld both worlds.  There are so many people that think the vaccine was rushed out when in fact it was worked on for decades.  Sometimes you can't always go by believe but you have to by science. 

I'm not forcing anyone to get it but in all honesty people who put their beliefs first need to do their homework and then respond.  It's obvious that the vaccine is working and there is data to back it up.

I have no problem with increased education.  I think we will get many people to - even if in secret - to put aside their vocal "beliefs" and get the vaccine if we give them data.  Calling them "unhinged" and forcing them will not get it done.


I agree with this.  I think if we try to compel people to vaccinate by some kind of legal mandate or putting in place some kind of penalty for refusing to vaccinate, it's only going to harden the position of the people resisting the vaccine.  I think a better approach is to incentivize vaccination somehow.   Now I don't know if that means limiting access to certain things only to people who can prove they've been vaccinated, or if it means we all have to carry around a vaccine status card or something like that.  I know that's a huge can of worms, but why else do we document vaccinations if it's not so that the vaccinated person can be validated as having been vaccinated?


I don't want to force people to get the vaccine, but if we make getting the vaccine more attractive than NOT getting the vaccine, maybe that will help get the numbers up.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'd be very curious from an economic standpoint what's the magic number.  Meaning, if we incentivize $50, $100, whatever to those vaccinated, what's the tipping point?   I have a feeling that number is not as high as we might think.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #284 on: July 09, 2021, 02:07:00 PM »
If all it took was people wearing a mask and social distancing in public. Then that is what can be done. But people will not do that for whatever reasons, which the data is proving. Just stay away from these people, and do you. Do not go to their states, and stay away. It's why in the bible, they exiled the Lepers, because they did not want to catch leprosy, so they neglected them from partaking in their society.

Yet, Jesus visited the lepers, and wasn't like those people afraid of them to the point of exiling them. His mindset wasn't like theirs. What if he had knowledge of a certain herb, or process, that no one had knowledge about. What if this was how he did his miracles, but people just don't know the technique he used for these herbs/processes to work.


If you so desperately want to visit a state where people are not vaccinated, because you think you have the right and privilege to go to that state, then go ahead and risk catching it. Out in the real world, outside where people gather in mass numbers, you have no way to know. People will voluntarily tell you sometimes, but others are more private with their lives and will not tell you and they'll see that as an invasion of personal space. Not everyone is so telling and open about their private lives, not everyone is Forest Gump. The majority of people on Social Media are people that are very open about their private lives, to where the viewer/follower can live vicariously through their Social Media page. (It's great data on Social Structures)

It's gotten to the point where people expect you to be very open about your private life. People do get a bit upset when you don't disclose information you don't want to tell them. They think they have an entitlement to know you.

I also agree, Education is what is needed. Our entire Education System has failed the people. And now, the country is reaping what it sowed with regards to the education of it's people. And here we are with people not having the intelligence and understanding of concepts, and these people need different ways to comprehend these concepts that the "intelligent" can easily grasp and have knowledge about. Like Kristi Noem not comprehending that Native Reservations are Sovereign Nations, and do not have to follow anything the State says or does. they only follow the United States Laws and Regulations, which is why some Tribes are not legalizing cannabis.

 If you visit any Native Reservation, you/the other, do not have a right and privilege to just go and do whatever on that land. Yet, people do assume they do have a right and privilege, like Kristi Noem thinks she does when the Tribes locked down and shut access to all outsiders.

There's reasons besides Health for why Natives took the vaccine. One is so they can see their families that reside in another reservation.

People have their own reasons that are unrelated to Health, or Fear of Dying of catching the virus, for taking the vaccine. If people didn't have other reasons to take the vaccine, would they still have taken it? What are the reasons for why people took the vaccine? Was it for their health and safety for other people, or was it to be able to do the things they wanted to do since before the pandemic took away their fun?

I personally think these reasons matter, if we are going to be talking about morals and concerns about the unvaccinated not wanting to take the vaccine and claiming they don't care about other peoples health and safety.

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Offline darkshade

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #285 on: July 09, 2021, 03:18:13 PM »
Current vaccination rates in NY state are 55-60%, so its not the "5-10% that refuse to be vaccinated". Restrictions will be required to keep the R0 in check until that number reaches the required threshold for natural sub-unity R0 values.

It is shocking to see how many Americans are unwilling to get the vaccine.

Maybe because it's the least deadly pandemic ever, and Americans are seeing their 'elected' leaders and unelected bureaucrats pushing more and more towards totalitarianism.

Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #286 on: July 09, 2021, 03:25:43 PM »
Current vaccination rates in NY state are 55-60%, so its not the "5-10% that refuse to be vaccinated". Restrictions will be required to keep the R0 in check until that number reaches the required threshold for natural sub-unity R0 values.

It is shocking to see how many Americans are unwilling to get the vaccine.

Maybe because it's the least deadly pandemic ever, and Americans are seeing their 'elected' leaders and unelected bureaucrats pushing more and more towards totalitarianism.

and you just drop that little nugget like it’s no big deal right? whatever it’s not even worth looking up how many people have died from covid-19. 
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 03:32:45 PM by XeRocks81 »

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #287 on: July 09, 2021, 03:26:33 PM »
Both sides are to blame for this split.  Both are being lead by extremists.  Hell, the voters are becoming extremists.  I feel lost in the middle.


And least deadly.  That's comforting.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #288 on: July 09, 2021, 03:30:35 PM »
It is not least deadly.

It’s not as bad as many others in history….because of how much better our medicine is. So the death toll is lower than many other pandemics BECAUSE people got vaccinated and wore masks and did all that stuff. It’s not less deadly because the virus is less deadly.
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Offline XJDenton

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #289 on: July 09, 2021, 03:58:10 PM »
Maybe because it's the least deadly pandemic ever, and Americans are seeing their 'elected' leaders and unelected bureaucrats pushing more and more towards totalitarianism.

Maybe. Or maybe they've been subjected to so much disinformation they no longer have the ability to tell truth from fact.
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Offline darkshade

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #290 on: July 09, 2021, 04:06:34 PM »
Maybe because it's the least deadly pandemic ever, and Americans are seeing their 'elected' leaders and unelected bureaucrats pushing more and more towards totalitarianism.

Maybe. Or maybe they've been subjected to so much disinformation they no longer have the ability to tell truth from fact.

better yet... all of the above.

Offline XJDenton

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #291 on: July 09, 2021, 04:13:49 PM »
Well everything except the pandemic being the least deadly. That is arse-gravy.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #292 on: July 09, 2021, 05:42:15 PM »
Current vaccination rates in NY state are 55-60%, so its not the "5-10% that refuse to be vaccinated". Restrictions will be required to keep the R0 in check until that number reaches the required threshold for natural sub-unity R0 values.

It is shocking to see how many Americans are unwilling to get the vaccine.

Maybe because it's the least deadly pandemic ever, and Americans are seeing their 'elected' leaders and unelected bureaucrats pushing more and more towards totalitarianism.

Is the 55-60% taking into account children who are not yet eligible for vaccines? The 5-10% refusal may still be a legit number when taking into account people who legitimately can't get a vaccine.

Also, can you provide some data to say this is the least deadly pandemic?

As of now, I see 4 million deaths.  It's not like the spanish flu or the black plague, but it's not some small number either.  A lot of this can be attributed to science and while it was very shakey understanding things in 2020, we did have some science to help us understand things to make this less deadly to the general population (even with some fuck ups like NY/NJ using LTC facilities).  This may likely go down as the biggest pandemic in our life times.  Is that not enough to be important?

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #293 on: July 09, 2021, 06:35:59 PM »
Current vaccination rates in NY state are 55-60%, so its not the "5-10% that refuse to be vaccinated". Restrictions will be required to keep the R0 in check until that number reaches the required threshold for natural sub-unity R0 values.

It is shocking to see how many Americans are unwilling to get the vaccine.

Maybe because it's the least deadly pandemic ever, and Americans are seeing their 'elected' leaders and unelected bureaucrats pushing more and more towards totalitarianism.

Is the 55-60% taking into account children who are not yet eligible for vaccines? The 5-10% refusal may still be a legit number when taking into account people who legitimately can't get a vaccine.

Also, can you provide some data to say this is the least deadly pandemic?

As of now, I see 4 million deaths.  It's not like the spanish flu or the black plague, but it's not some small number either.  A lot of this can be attributed to science and while it was very shakey understanding things in 2020, we did have some science to help us understand things to make this less deadly to the general population (even with some fuck ups like NY/NJ using LTC facilities).  This may likely go down as the biggest pandemic in our life times.  Is that not enough to be important?

Do we have data for the amount of Natives lives lost to diseases during the colonization? We do not.

I doubt there is accurate data for past pandemics before the invention of Vaccines. There is no way we can get an accurate account for the deaths that occurred from past diseases and epidemics. We can only go on stories. Which is how the future will understand this current pandemic, by the stories being written by the media. This leads to why it is a big problem and concern that they are censoring the opposing perspectives, regardless if what they say is bologna.

As the story of the pandemic will be understood from how it is written.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #294 on: July 09, 2021, 10:36:31 PM »
Since someone brought up incentives... there was a local report that a WA state lottery system set up for vaccinations resulted in a 24% increase in vax rates.

Quote
In total, the DOH estimates that between June 3 and June 22, roughly 28,500 more people received their first dose as a result of the lottery, marking a 24% increase from a scenario where the state hadn’t done the lottery at all.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #295 on: July 10, 2021, 02:21:49 AM »
Stockholm opened up for 18+ to get vaccinated yesterday.
My son managed to book a shot on monday wich means he will hopefully get his second dose before going back to stidy at The Royal Institute of Technplogy.
That just leaves my daughter unvaccinated so far. She is 14 years old so not sure she will get one at all.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #296 on: July 10, 2021, 01:24:11 PM »
Maybe because it's the least deadly pandemic ever, and Americans are seeing their 'elected' leaders and unelected bureaucrats pushing more and more towards totalitarianism.

Maybe. Or maybe they've been subjected to so much disinformation they no longer have the ability to tell truth from fact.

better yet... all of the above.

Yeah, I tend to think there is a lot to that.  Obviously, we can't generalize and say that those factors are THE factors for everybody.  There are tons of different factors for many different people.  But I think the ones you mentioned and the one XJ mentioned seem to be big factors for quite a few people.  And, yeah, we can nitpick the "least deadly pandemic" issue.  If we are truly looking at ALL pandemics, that isn't true.  But I get what you are saying--most people probably have no idea about most of the pandemics we have dealt with since the beginning of time other than the ones that are well known because of how deadly they are.  So, yeah, again, while the blanket statement of "least deadly pandemic" is not technically correct, I think the point is still valid from a perception standpoint.  And that is ultimately what we are talking about here--people's perceptions that lead them to not get vaccinated.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #297 on: July 10, 2021, 05:22:35 PM »
Right now covid is sitting at #8 all time by death toll. I'd say that shows that the whole 'least deadly' comment is patently false.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2021, 07:18:08 PM by lonestar »

Offline bosk1

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #298 on: July 10, 2021, 05:42:26 PM »
Well, respectfully, I think if you want to categorize it as "patently false," you are missing the spirit of what he is saying in favor of focusing on the technical. 
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #299 on: July 10, 2021, 07:26:14 PM »
First off, based on past posts of his, he actually suscribes to such beliefs concerning the pandemic. There's no 'spirit of what he is saying' here, he has posted such sentiments time and time again. Facts are needed to fly in the face of bullshit like that. We need to call out bullshit when we see it.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #300 on: July 11, 2021, 03:43:02 AM »
The spirit of what he is saying is also false. Being against medical measures that prevent cases of a pandemic because "its not that deadly" is like removing seatbelts and airbags from your new SUV because it already has a 5 star NCAP rating.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #301 on: July 11, 2021, 04:13:21 AM »
Second Moderna shot for me today.... early noon, vaccine, evening, Italy vs England who knows in which conditions  :lol
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #302 on: July 11, 2021, 04:23:02 AM »
Well, respectfully, I think if you want to categorize it as "patently false," you are missing the spirit of what he is saying in favor of focusing on the technical. 

Curious... what do you see as the "spirit" of what Darkshade is saying?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #303 on: July 11, 2021, 04:31:36 AM »
It could also get a whole lot more deadly, because it ain't over yet.

This thing is worldwide. That's why people who keep thinking about it in the lense of US two party politics are missing the point. It's not about anyone's politics. 4M have already died and variants are spreading in the largely unvaccinated world.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #304 on: July 11, 2021, 05:12:00 AM »
Indeed. The current vaccination rates worldwide are 1/4 with one dose, less than 13% fully vaccinated. Variants will breed in the infected population and do not care about international borders.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #305 on: July 11, 2021, 10:13:55 AM »
It could also get a whole lot more deadly, because it ain't over yet.

This thing is worldwide. That's why people who keep thinking about it in the lense of US two party politics are missing the point. It's not about anyone's politics. 4M have already died and variants are spreading in the largely unvaccinated world.

Exactly...there's 7.6 billion people on earth, and I'd gather 7 billion of them see this as the actual threat it is. Tokyo just shut down before the Olympics. That's how adults deal with this. I wish we could ignore those who deny the worldliness and deadliness of this thing, but even in their ignorance, their actions have repercussions that resound around the world.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #306 on: July 11, 2021, 01:01:14 PM »
The spirit of what he is saying is also false. Being against medical measures that prevent cases of a pandemic because "its not that deadly" is like removing seatbelts and airbags from your new SUV because it already has a 5 star NCAP rating.

That's just as false as what Darkshade is saying, in it's own way.   "Against medical measures"?  What does that mean?  There always has to be some cost (in the general sense of the word)/benefit analysis when assessing what might be done as a society to protect what ultimately might be a small section of that society.   There also has to be some concensus on what level of risk is acceptable.  "Zero tolerance" only really works when you're bullying your moral position on someone, not in real life examples like this one.  We are (likely) never going to completely eradicate COVID, so what level is an acceptable and manageable risk?  A year ago, it was just "not overwhelming our healthcare system".  It's changed since then, that's clear, as people forgot about that, but it's not clear where it changed TO.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #307 on: July 11, 2021, 04:29:04 PM »
That's just as false as what Darkshade is saying, in it's own way.

No it isn't. The only reason the pandemic has been as "undeadly" as it has been is because of measures like masks, self-isolation, lockdowns and travel restrictions keeping the R0 in check. IF you decide to remove those restrictions WITHOUT replacing it with an equally effective measure of reducing the transmission (like near universal vaccination), you WILL cause cases to increase and people to be hospitalised and die, same as if you take a "safe" car and remove all the safety mechanisms, more people will be more severely injured or die when those cars crash. This is is not my opinion, this is just how the virus works. You can of course have a discussion about how much death you are willing to accept as a society, but letting a virus propagate through a still majority-unvaccinated/partially vaccinated population is an extreme position that will maximse pain and suffering, and is a thoroughly counterproductive position, especially if it ends up breeding a variant that is vaccine resistant and fucks up all the progress we made so far.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 04:55:00 PM by XJDenton »
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Offline Skeever

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #308 on: July 11, 2021, 06:09:18 PM »
I think there are just like two words of people even within places like the US. You have the people who never changed one thing about their behavior because of the pandemic, and if they were lucky enough not to have experienced anything that would change their mind they just assume that everyone else was like them, not taking precautions or making voluntary sacrifices. A few of my in-laws are this way - they are blown away when they see family who still wear masks, they joke about "child abuse" "taking peoples kids away" when they see them wearing masks. They think the whole thing was made up, and ran its natural course, regardless of what precautions people took. Everyone who made some kind of sacrifice and even took the marginal personal risk of getting the vaccine get their efforts demeaned and devalued, of course THEY aren't part of the reason why the pandemic wasn't as bad as it could have been. Because to admit that would be to admit that they (my in-laws) are part of the reason why the pandemic has been as bad as it's going. 

To me, it's ridiculous. I missed so much good stuff because of this pandemic. I missed sharing many life moments with family, and the chance to spend time with my grandfather who was in hospice. I've had a (very young, healthy) relative die of COVID, and several more family members effected and hit hard. There are close family I did not get to see except occasionally from behind a mask at all for months at a time. And then there are the mundane things we all shared: cancelled plans, putting life on hold, and so on. So to sit there and act like no one did anything, that no one's sacrifice (voluntary or otherwise) mattered would be deeply insulting if it was not so clearly rooted in total ignorance.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 06:14:23 PM by Skeever »

Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #309 on: July 11, 2021, 06:11:15 PM »
That's just as false as what Darkshade is saying, in it's own way.

No it isn't. The only reason the pandemic has been as "undeadly" as it has been is because of measures like masks, self-isolation, lockdowns and travel restrictions keeping the R0 in check. IF you decide to remove those restrictions WITHOUT replacing it with an equally effective measure of reducing the transmission (like near universal vaccination), you WILL cause cases to increase and people to be hospitalised and die, same as if you take a "safe" car and remove all the safety mechanisms, more people will be more severely injured or die when those cars crash. This is is not my opinion, this is just how the virus works. You can of course have a discussion about how much death you are willing to accept as a society, but letting a virus propagate through a still majority-unvaccinated/partially vaccinated population is an extreme position that will maximse pain and suffering, and is a thoroughly counterproductive position, especially if it ends up breeding a variant that is vaccine resistant and fucks up all the progress we made so far.

I think we're talking past each other here.   I'm talking about specific measures, individually, and it seems to me you're talking about them as a group.  I agree that there has to be SOMETHING done, but I think there's great debate as to the exact what, and I don't think there's simply one right answer and everything else is wrong.  California and Florida.  Connecticut and Texas.   

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #310 on: July 11, 2021, 06:26:44 PM »
Are you pro or anti vaccines? Because this is the measure Darkshade suggests is a tool for totalitarianism and unnecessary for "the least deadly pandemic ever".
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #311 on: July 11, 2021, 07:08:07 PM »
Are you pro or anti vaccines? Because this is the measure Darkshade suggests is a tool for totalitarianism and unnecessary for "the least deadly pandemic ever".

That's not a yes or no question.   I am in favor of vaccines being readily available.  I got mine on literally the first day I was able to in my state.  My wife and three oldest kids all have them.  I arranged for my parents to get theirs.  I am in favor of everyone being able to make that choice for themselves.   Someone in my family, close to me, has not gotten one and doesn't plan to.   It is what it is.  He is not deplorable, stupid, in denial, or any of those fun things that we like to throw at people that don't live their lives exactly the way we want them to.

FORCING each and every person to get a vaccine, without a vote or other means of civil disobedience, and with punishment for non-compliance, is pretty darn close to totalitarianism.   

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #312 on: July 11, 2021, 07:26:54 PM »
The question is without the vaccine and the measures we took before the vaccine, would Darkshade be able to say this was the least deadly pandemic?ever?

The obvious answer is no since the data proves that the vaccine and these measures are working. 

They didn't have the technology for medication like we do today as well as the communication to get the info out there like in earlier pandemics. 
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #313 on: July 12, 2021, 12:49:41 AM »
He is not deplorable, stupid, in denial, or any of those fun things that we like to throw at people that don't live their lives exactly the way we want them to.

Okay. why doesn't he plan to vaccinate then?
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Offline Skeever

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #314 on: July 12, 2021, 04:43:53 AM »
He is not deplorable, stupid, in denial, or any of those fun things that we like to throw at people that don't live their lives exactly the way we want them to.

Okay. why doesn't he plan to vaccinate then?

Because he is scared of it.