Author Topic: Coronavirus Thread v.2  (Read 191253 times)

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Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2765 on: December 10, 2021, 12:21:22 PM »
I got Moderna:

First Shot - Tired/Crashed
Second Shot - kill me
Booster - nothing

Slight edit on the first shot.

Turns out the Moderna dosage and counts are way higher than Pfizer which is probably why side effects might have been worse. Once I found out the booster was a half dose I knew it wouldn't be bad. I think it was still bigger than a full Pfizer dose. I realize they are different, but just guessing.

Ah, found a story that documents the difference. Moderna blasts you with a lot more.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/10/pfizer-moderna-dose-which-vaccine-best/620501/

Comparing doses of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines is much easier, since their mechanisms are so similar. Each shot of Moderna delivers more than three times as much of the active ingredient, compared with Pfizer, and seems to induce a higher antibody count and lead to more durable protection against infection and hospitalization. “Over time, that higher dose might be what is driving the difference in protective efficacy,” John Moore, a microbiology and immunology professor at Weill Cornell Medicine, told me.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2766 on: December 10, 2021, 01:50:49 PM »
Pfizer for all three, and just a sore arm each time

Offline Zoom E

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2767 on: December 10, 2021, 02:51:01 PM »
I had Astrazeneca for my first two doses. First dose, I was achy and tired and had a headache. Second dose wasn’t too bad.

I had Pfizer for my booster two days ago. The booster was the worst dose for me. I felt dreadful yesterday and still don’t feel 100% today. Extremely sore arm, headache, muscle aches, and chills.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2021, 02:56:06 PM by Zoom E »

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2768 on: December 10, 2021, 07:52:16 PM »
I was just tired Kev after my booster.

I am always tired, so that won't make any difference for me.  :lol >:(

Getting the booster next Thursday after work. Hoping it doesn't kick my ass like the 2nd shot did back in April.

What brand did you get?  I got the Pfizer vaccine.  The 2nd shot wasn't any worse than the first.  :dunno:

Pfizer.

The first shot gave me a sore arm, but the second shot effects kicked in about 22 hours later, and for about a full day, it felt like a train had run over me.  And then just like that it was gone. 

Offline Herrick

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2769 on: December 10, 2021, 10:45:03 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/10/us/new-york-mask-mandate-covid/index.html

The New York governor has Ruled that everyone must wear masks or show proof of vaccination from December 13 to January 15. I do not know how they plan to enforce this or if businesses will even bother trying. This really fucking blows for Herrick. My employer recently forced me to get the Plauge Shots and I thought, "At least I won't have to wear a mask in a fucking 7-11 or Target anymore."

I always wore a mask in NY even when The Plauge Shots came around and people didn't have to wear masks because businesses weren't requiring Plague Shot proof. Oh well. Back to wearing a mask everywhere :(

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Offline Skeever

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2770 on: December 13, 2021, 12:43:17 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/10/us/new-york-mask-mandate-covid/index.html

The New York governor has Ruled that everyone must wear masks or show proof of vaccination from December 13 to January 15. I do not know how they plan to enforce this or if businesses will even bother trying. This really fucking blows for Herrick. My employer recently forced me to get the Plauge Shots and I thought, "At least I won't have to wear a mask in a fucking 7-11 or Target anymore."

I always wore a mask in NY even when The Plauge Shots came around and people didn't have to wear masks because businesses weren't requiring Plague Shot proof. Oh well. Back to wearing a mask everywhere :(

I mean, I got mine April, and feel like I've felt the same disappointment. When does it end? When do we, as society, step back from the ledge, realize this thing isn't the bubonic plague, and just move on with life?

We're leading the world in both cases and deaths despite having the very best access to vaccines and (as far as I can tell) reasonable amounts of ability to mask and limit gatherings. If I believed we could, as the Chinese or New Zealanders did, just shut the whole thing down for a few months until cases hit 0 I'd be open to it, but that's never going to happen, a bridge that was crossed long ago.

I've been one of the first I know in line to wear masks, work from home, get the vaccine, and cancel/limit gatherings, but at this point, I'm just feeling fucked with. What else can people really be expected to do?

Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2771 on: December 13, 2021, 01:13:50 PM »
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/10/us/new-york-mask-mandate-covid/index.html

The New York governor has Ruled that everyone must wear masks or show proof of vaccination from December 13 to January 15. I do not know how they plan to enforce this or if businesses will even bother trying. This really fucking blows for Herrick. My employer recently forced me to get the Plauge Shots and I thought, "At least I won't have to wear a mask in a fucking 7-11 or Target anymore."

I always wore a mask in NY even when The Plauge Shots came around and people didn't have to wear masks because businesses weren't requiring Plague Shot proof. Oh well. Back to wearing a mask everywhere :(

I mean, I got mine April, and feel like I've felt the same disappointment. When does it end? When do we, as society, step back from the ledge, realize this thing isn't the bubonic plague, and just move on with life?

We're leading the world in both cases and deaths despite having the very best access to vaccines and (as far as I can tell) reasonable amounts of ability to mask and limit gatherings. If I believed we could, as the Chinese or New Zealanders did, just shut the whole thing down for a few months until cases hit 0 I'd be open to it, but that's never going to happen, a bridge that was crossed long ago.

I've been one of the first I know in line to wear masks, work from home, get the vaccine, and cancel/limit gatherings, but at this point, I'm just feeling fucked with. What else can people really be expected to do?

We're 20th on both metrics when adjusted for population, in case anyone cares.

But I'm right there with you elsewise; the virus has consistently, over two years, defied the "common wisdom", and while most of the measures other than the vaccines are really just improving one's odds, there's no real way, in my opinion, to judge how much odds' improvement there is in any particular situation.

I believe we're getting close to the point where this is handled like a flu scenario, where it's on the person to take the precautions they feel okay with.

I think first and foremost, I think the media needs to start dialing it back in terms of the reporting.  We don't, at this point, need to know every single case that comes down the pike.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2772 on: December 13, 2021, 01:19:32 PM »
https://nypost.com/2021/12/13/colorado-gov-jared-polis-declares-covid-19-emergency-over-despite-omicron/

To go along what Skeever said, this is where I'm at and have been basically since everyone had access to vaccines.  We need to move on with life.  I feel like for the most part back home in NJ we have.  Masks are only mandated on public transportation and in school, everything else is 100% "normal".  Here in Germany I have to show my vaccine at every single establishment I want to enter and in The Netherlands everything shuts down super early.  Those who chose not to get vaccinated, that's their decision and society needs to move on. We can't protect those who chose not to be protected and we certainly shouldn't bend over backwards for such people.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2773 on: December 13, 2021, 05:45:45 PM »
I agree with the last three posts.

I wonder how many anti-vaccine people who have been hospitalized by The Plague and survived have gotten The Shots afterwards.

And just to clarify, I was never anti-vaccine. I just never got it because I didn't think I needed it and I'm super lazy when it comes to getting medical stuff done. For example, a couple months ago I had a lump on the left side of my throat and didn't bother getting it checked out. Luckily, it went away.
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Offline Luoto

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2774 on: December 14, 2021, 03:08:07 AM »
We need to move on with life. I feel like for the most part back home in NJ we have. Masks are only mandated on public transportation and in school, everything else is 100% "normal". Here in Germany I have to show my vaccine at every single establishment I want to enter and in The Netherlands everything shuts down super early. Those who chose not to get vaccinated, that's their decision and society needs to move on. We can't protect those who chose not to be protected and we certainly shouldn't bend over backwards for such people.

It's in the ethics of medicine to treat anyone as equal as possible, regardless of their actions (or lack thereof) to maintain their health. Any established society can't "move on" as long as this disease keeps compromising healthcare systems. Omicron has forced a restrictions revamp in many European countries due to it's high contagion rate. If a government stops taking necessary measures to slow down the spread then mortality rises, either directly from Covid or indirectly because people die from other illnesses.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2021, 03:14:17 AM by Luoto »
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2775 on: December 14, 2021, 07:45:30 AM »
We need to move on with life. I feel like for the most part back home in NJ we have. Masks are only mandated on public transportation and in school, everything else is 100% "normal". Here in Germany I have to show my vaccine at every single establishment I want to enter and in The Netherlands everything shuts down super early. Those who chose not to get vaccinated, that's their decision and society needs to move on. We can't protect those who chose not to be protected and we certainly shouldn't bend over backwards for such people.

It's in the ethics of medicine to treat anyone as equal as possible, regardless of their actions (or lack thereof) to maintain their health. Any established society can't "move on" as long as this disease keeps compromising healthcare systems. Omicron has forced a restrictions revamp in many European countries due to it's high contagion rate. If a government stops taking necessary measures to slow down the spread then mortality rises, either directly from Covid or indirectly because people die from other illnesses.

But this goes directly to what I've said: COVID has defied "wisdom" every step of the way.   If there's one message in ALL of this COVID nonsense - and it's a message that is not going to be learned, I can promise you that - is that "man plans, and God laughs".   California has some of the most restrictive procedures in the country, and Florida, is, by most accounts, the Wild Wild West when it comes to restrictions.... and their numbers are relatively consistent in terms of cases and deaths per capita.  We've had several outbreaks - one famous one was in the midwest - and they didn't conform to either the patterns of restrictions, or the pattern of compliance to recommendations.

I'm not saying that we don't do restrictions, but that we hold those restrictions in some perspective; they are improving the odds, they are not absolutes. 

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2776 on: December 14, 2021, 07:51:03 AM »
I'm not saying that we don't do restrictions, but that we hold those restrictions in some perspective; they are improving the odds, they are not absolutes. 

Bingo.  Everything is about improving odds.  By way of comparison, all rules (laws) of the road and car safety are simply about improving odds / reducing risk.  Something as basic as painted lanes, windshield wipers, stop signs/lights ... all in place to just have everyone operate from the same set of principles/standards to reduce the risk of injury/death from a car accident.  Societally, we need to get to that point with COVID, but still just being 2 years into this generation's first global pandemic, the heightened state of alert that we are (for the most part) still feeling lingers on.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2777 on: December 14, 2021, 08:19:35 AM »
We need to move on with life. I feel like for the most part back home in NJ we have. Masks are only mandated on public transportation and in school, everything else is 100% "normal". Here in Germany I have to show my vaccine at every single establishment I want to enter and in The Netherlands everything shuts down super early. Those who chose not to get vaccinated, that's their decision and society needs to move on. We can't protect those who chose not to be protected and we certainly shouldn't bend over backwards for such people.

It's in the ethics of medicine to treat anyone as equal as possible, regardless of their actions (or lack thereof) to maintain their health. Any established society can't "move on" as long as this disease keeps compromising healthcare systems. Omicron has forced a restrictions revamp in many European countries due to it's high contagion rate. If a government stops taking necessary measures to slow down the spread then mortality rises, either directly from Covid or indirectly because people die from other illnesses.

But this goes directly to what I've said: COVID has defied "wisdom" every step of the way.   If there's one message in ALL of this COVID nonsense - and it's a message that is not going to be learned, I can promise you that - is that "man plans, and God laughs".   California has some of the most restrictive procedures in the country, and Florida, is, by most accounts, the Wild Wild West when it comes to restrictions.... and their numbers are relatively consistent in terms of cases and deaths per capita.  We've had several outbreaks - one famous one was in the midwest - and they didn't conform to either the patterns of restrictions, or the pattern of compliance to recommendations.

I'm not saying that we don't do restrictions, but that we hold those restrictions in some perspective; they are improving the odds, they are not absolutes.

That's my point. Humans have a false belief that they can control and dominate the world. Covid is proving that. Humans can make predictions, prophecies, and make models about the future, but Nature will prove them wrong. False prophets play on people's fear and know how to manipulate them into following their control, order, and rule.

Humans can do everything to improve their odds of not dying. But If death is a part of Nature, you're trying to toy with and mess with nature. Chinese tried inventing an elixer for a longer life, yet guess what happened. Nature turned it around and they created one of the most destructive things that doesn't enhance life, it takes it away...that is Gun Powder.

Most Indigenous cultures understand humans can not control the world. There's a few cultures and this is their leaders, who believe that false ideal that humans can dominate the world.

This is why I say, if the government really cared about peoples health. They would be this adamant about the very things that are causing the health conditions that make us susceptible to diseases. What is causing heart disease, diabetes, obesity? Why isn't the government enacting mandates to pretty much remedy these health issues?

I can take a guess and say it's because of industrialization. These sicknesses are the consequences of mass production so we humans can live in simplicity. The destruction of the ecosystem that we humans rely upon for our sustenance can make us unhealthy because the soil, water, and air is toxic.

Why isn't the government addressing this or doing studies to prove whether industrialization is or isn't causing health issues for every organism in this planet?

I can take another guess and say it's because industrialization businesses dominate and control the world.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2778 on: December 14, 2021, 10:25:23 AM »
I'm not saying that we don't do restrictions, but that we hold those restrictions in some perspective; they are improving the odds, they are not absolutes. 

Bingo.  Everything is about improving odds.  By way of comparison, all rules (laws) of the road and car safety are simply about improving odds / reducing risk.

And statistics are saying your chance of dying in an auto accident are higher than covid if you are vaccinated.  We can only restrict so much before the balance tips in favor of hurting society vs benfitting. 

It's in the ethics of medicine to treat anyone as equal as possible, regardless of their actions (or lack thereof) to maintain their health.

I think unvaccinated people should and have been given the same equal treatment.  But we shouldn't shut down society at this point.  We can protect the most vulnerable without stopping business and locking people down.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2779 on: December 16, 2021, 11:38:12 AM »
The more I hear and read about Omicron, the more I feel like we're practically starting all over again.

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/omicron-thrives-airways-not-lungs-new-data-asymptomatic-cases-2021-12-15/

Quote
Omicron thrives in airways, not lungs; new data on asymptomatic cases
Major differences in how efficiently Omicron and other variants of the coronavirus multiply may help predict Omicron's effects, researchers said on Wednesday.  Compared to the earlier Delta variant, Omicron multiplies itself 70 times more quickly in tissues that line airway passages, which may facilitate person-to-person spread, they said. But in lung tissues, Omicron replicates 10 times more slowly than the original version of the coronavirus, which might contribute to less-severe illness.

Omicron grips cells more tightly, withstands some antibodies
A structural model of how the Omicron variant attaches to cells and antibodies sheds light on its behavior and will help in designing neutralizing antibodies, according to researchers.
Using computer models of the spike protein on Omicron's surface, they analyzed molecular interactions occurring when the spike grabs onto a cell-surface protein called ACE2, the virus's gateway into the cell.  Metaphorically, the original virus had a handshake with ACE2, but Omicron's grip "looks more like a couple holding hands with their fingers entwined," said Joseph Lubin of Rutgers University in New Jersey. The "molecular anatomy" of the grip may assist in explaining how Omicron's mutations cooperate to help it infect cells, Lubin added.
The research team also modeled the spike with different classes of antibodies trying to attack it. The antibodies attack from different angles, "like a football team's defense might tackle a ball carrier," with one person grabbing from behind, another from the front, Lubin said. Some antibodies "appear likely to get shaken off" while others are likely to remain effective. Booster vaccines raise antibody levels, resulting in "more defenders," which might compensate to some extent for "a weaker grip of an individual antibody," Lubin said.
The findings, posted on Monday on the website bioRxiv ahead of peer review, need to be verified, "particularly with real-world samples from people,"

Here in Ontario, the case count is doubling every 2-3 days right now, and 60%+ of the cases are from VACCINATED individuals.  With an R value >4, even if it results in less-severe illness, the shear magnitude of cases could still overwhelm the hospital system again.  I'm not suggesting we're headed to lockdowns, but by all means, this has the potential of being the worse wave yet.  Many countries are breaking new records as to the daily case counts.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2780 on: December 16, 2021, 11:45:29 AM »
I read an article yesterday from a doctor that contracted covid from a wedding.  People wore masks during the ceremony in the church, but had them off during the reception.  She indicated that blaming the unvaccinated for prolonging the pandemic isn't correct - it's now becoming more of the vaccinated people causing the spread, explaining that protections from vaccines and masks are like pieces of swiss cheese.  Each piece has holes - but when you layer them together, you get fuller coverage.

Her belief was that vaccinated people that do not wear masks is increasing the spread of covid.  The doctor said that had she worn a mask during the reception, she would not have contracted covid. 

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2781 on: December 16, 2021, 12:10:50 PM »
I stumbled on to this from The Atlantic. 
THIS ARTICLE IS WORTH THE READ!!!

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/12/america-omicron-variant-surge-booster/621027/

Here are some excerpts... and yes, I know this is long - but it's important.  Shit is gonna go sideways pretty quick.

Quote
Given what scientists have learned in the three weeks since Omicron’s discovery, “some of the absolute worst-case scenarios that were possible when we saw its genome are off the table, but so are some of the most hopeful scenarios,” 

America is not prepared for Omicron. <jingle.boy note … most countries weren’t prepared / didn’t prepare for wave 1 or 2 or Alpha, or Delta, so why should this be any different?>

The variant’s threat is far greater at the societal level than at the personal one.

Like the variants that preceded it, Omicron requires individuals to think and act for the collective good—which is to say, it poses a heightened version of the same challenge that the U.S. has failed for two straight years, in bipartisan fashion.

One early study suggests that antibodies in vaccinated people are about 40 times worse at neutralizing Omicron than the original virus.

The implications of that decline are still uncertain, but three simple principles should likely hold.
- First, the bad news: In terms of catching the virus, everyone should assume that they are less protected than they were two months ago. someone who’s been boosted has the same ballpark level of protection against Omicron infection as a vaccinated-but-unboosted person did against Delta
- Second, some worse news: Boosting isn’t a foolproof shield against Omicron.  boosted Americans made up a third of the first known Omicron cases in the U.S. “People who thought that they wouldn’t have to worry about infection this winter if they had their booster do still have to worry about infection with Omicron,”
- Third, some better news: Even if Omicron has an easier time infecting vaccinated individuals, it should still have more trouble causing severe disease.  The variant might sneak past the initial antibody blockade, but slower-acting branches of the immune system (such as T cells) should eventually mobilize to clear it before it wreaks too much havoc.

it’s reasonable to treat Omicron as a setback but not a catastrophe for most vaccinated people.

That’s for individuals, though. At a societal level, the outlook is bleaker.

it has already overtaken Delta as the dominant variant in South Africa. Soon, it will likely do the same in Scotland and Denmark. Even the U.S. has detected Omicron in 35 states. “I think that a large Omicron wave is baked in,”

More positively, Omicron cases have thus far been relatively mild. This pattern has fueled the widespread claim that the variant might be less severe, or even that its rapid spread could be a welcome development. “People are saying ‘Let it rip’ and ‘It’ll help us build more immunity,’ that this is the exit wave and everything’s going to be fine and rosy after,” Richard Lessells, an infectious-disease physician at the University of KwaZulu-Natal, in South Africa, told me. “I have no confidence in that.”

that argument overlooks a key dynamic: Omicron might not actually be intrinsically milder.

And even if Omicron is milder, greater transmissibility will likely trump that reduced virulence. Omicron is spreading so quickly that a small proportion of severe cases could still flood hospitals.

The Omicron wave won’t completely topple America’s wall of immunity but will seep into its many cracks and weaknesses. It will find the 39 percent of Americans who are still not fully vaccinated (including 28 percent of adults and 13 percent of over-65s).

Here, then, is the problem: People who are unlikely to be hospitalized by Omicron might still feel reasonably protected, but they can spread the virus to those who are more vulnerable, quickly enough to seriously batter an already collapsing health-care system that will then struggle to care for anyone—vaccinated, boosted, or otherwise. The collective threat is substantially greater than the individual one. And the U.S. is ill-poised to meet it.

With a little time, the mRNA vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna could be updated, but “my suspicion is that once we have an Omicron-specific booster, the wave will be past,”

The longer-term future is uncertain. After Delta’s emergence, it became clear that the coronavirus was too transmissible to fully eradicate. Omicron could potentially shunt us more quickly toward a different endgame—endemicity, the point when humanity has gained enough immunity to hold the virus in a tenuous stalemate—albeit at significant cost.

For all the mutations in Omicron’s spike, it actually has fewer mutations in the rest of its proteins than Delta did. The virus might still have many new forms to take.

Vaccines can’t be the only strategy. The rest of the pandemic playbook remains unchanged and necessary: paid sick leave and other policies that protect essential workers, better masks, improved ventilation, rapid tests, places where sick people can easily isolate, social distancing, a stronger public-health system, and ways of retaining the frayed health-care workforce. The U.S. has consistently dropped the ball on many of these, betting that vaccines alone could get us out of the pandemic.

Individualism couldn’t beat Delta, it won’t beat Omicron, and it won’t beat the rest of the Greek alphabet to come. Self-interest is self-defeating, and as long as its hosts ignore that lesson, the virus will keep teaching it.

That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2782 on: December 16, 2021, 12:36:53 PM »
I think a lot of people either view "beating" the virus as the wrong standard or have a different definition of what that means than that author.

As for the rest of it, the data is not really unexpected, so I am not really sure what to take from it.  I mean, "Get your booster.  It is helpful.  Continue taking other reasonable precautions, because they also help reduce the spread."  Good reminder, I guess?  :dunno:  We already know that. 
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2783 on: December 16, 2021, 01:05:30 PM »
Apple announced today that it's suspending its February return to work order indefinitely, and giving all employees a grand to set up work from home capabilities. So glad my company does automated cars and can't work from home.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2784 on: December 16, 2021, 01:08:02 PM »
I think a lot of people either view "beating" the virus as the wrong standard or have a different definition of what that means than that author.

As for the rest of it, the data is not really unexpected, so I am not really sure what to take from it.  I mean, "Get your booster.  It is helpful.  Continue taking other reasonable precautions, because they also help reduce the spread."  Good reminder, I guess?  :dunno:  We already know that.

Do you (royal) though? Almost 40% of the US is not fully vax'd. I'd be curious to know how many fully vax'd people in the US regularly mask in public?  No slight to anyone, but many DTFrs have proudly proclaimed their joy at being maskless.  And per the article I cited, at least 1/2 of all US states have LAWS against mask mandates.  Guess what people, as Grappler said, it's the vaccinated that are contracting and spreading Omicron.  This variant has gotten stronger against our vaccines.

Though I do agree to your first part.  I didn't copy/paste the part about avoiding hospitalization/death should not be the standard of success.  Even "mild" cases have the potential for individual consequences, let alone the societal ones associated with a spread R value over 4 (at least, here in Ontario at the moment).

Apple announced today that it's suspending its February return to work order indefinitely, and giving all employees a grand to set up work from home capabilities. So glad my company does automated cars and can't work from home.

I'm seeing company after company (including my own) suspend or delay their back-to-office plans.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2785 on: December 16, 2021, 01:20:27 PM »
I think a lot of people either view "beating" the virus as the wrong standard or have a different definition of what that means than that author.

As for the rest of it, the data is not really unexpected, so I am not really sure what to take from it.  I mean, "Get your booster.  It is helpful.  Continue taking other reasonable precautions, because they also help reduce the spread."  Good reminder, I guess?  :dunno:  We already know that.

Do you (royal) though? Almost 40% of the US is not fully vax'd. I'd be curious to know how many fully vax'd people in the US regularly mask in public?  No slight to anyone, but many DTFrs have proudly proclaimed their joy at being maskless.  And per the article I cited, at least 1/2 of all US states have LAWS against mask mandates.  Guess what people, as Grappler said, it's the vaccinated that are contracting and spreading Omicron.  This variant has gotten stronger against our vaccines.

Though I do agree to your first part.  I didn't copy/paste the part about avoiding hospitalization/death should not be the standard of success.  Even "mild" cases have the potential for individual consequences, let alone the societal ones associated with a spread R value over 4 (at least, here in Ontario at the moment).

Be careful of your language though; has it gotten STRONGER or more resistant but in a milder form?  We can have 330 million people contract COVID, if it's a strain that gives you a momentary bout of gas.   The idea was to avoid the burden on the hospitals, and to alleviate the other, consequential losses from missed work, etc.

I know three people that have contracted COVID in the last month or so, and all three were relatively mild cases.  Missed work, but no hint of "hospital" or any of the dire consequences that were prevalent early on.  That MAY be our new reality. 

Offline bosk1

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2786 on: December 16, 2021, 01:24:30 PM »
I think a lot of people either view "beating" the virus as the wrong standard or have a different definition of what that means than that author.

As for the rest of it, the data is not really unexpected, so I am not really sure what to take from it.  I mean, "Get your booster.  It is helpful.  Continue taking other reasonable precautions, because they also help reduce the spread."  Good reminder, I guess?  :dunno:  We already know that.

Do you (royal) though? ...

Yes, I think so.  A lot may choose to ignore it, or to not subjectively feel, to varying degrees, that some or all of those precautions are really necessary.  But, again, nothing that was said is really surprising or inconsistent with what we already [collectively] knew about the virus in general. 
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2787 on: December 16, 2021, 01:30:43 PM »
The NYT had a daily piece on omicron as well.  It was a bit less doom and gloom than the Atlantic. It's still a lot of wait and see IMO.  It's almost for sure that omicron is not any worse than previous variants.  It may be less severe, data suggests that so far but its still early (NYT states early studies show the virus does not replicate as much in the lungs as delta did).  However, there's no doubt this is more contagious and currently spreading like wildfire even among the vaccinated.  The vaccines are showing to be less effective agains this variant PLUS vaccines have been losing effectiveness over time it seems.  This combo is going to lead to more breakthrough cases than we saw with delta, but protection from severe illness and death STILL seems very strong from the vaccines.  Add in a booster, and you have pretty good protection overall.  Not perfect by any means but still not a reason to think this wave is going to be worse than what we've seen (in terms of deaths and locking everything down).  Granted, that could change, but right now it seems like a lot of people are and are going to get sick but not deathly ill. It's going to come down if those with some immunity (natural or vaccinated) can stay out of the hospital and those without immunity get a milder illness from this variant. That so far seems to be the case. The most vulnerable are still the most vulnerable here (older, immunocompromised, unvaccinated). 

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2788 on: December 16, 2021, 03:01:47 PM »
I think a lot of people either view "beating" the virus as the wrong standard or have a different definition of what that means than that author.

As for the rest of it, the data is not really unexpected, so I am not really sure what to take from it.  I mean, "Get your booster.  It is helpful.  Continue taking other reasonable precautions, because they also help reduce the spread."  Good reminder, I guess?  :dunno:  We already know that.

Do you (royal) though? Almost 40% of the US is not fully vax'd. I'd be curious to know how many fully vax'd people in the US regularly mask in public?  No slight to anyone, but many DTFrs have proudly proclaimed their joy at being maskless.  And per the article I cited, at least 1/2 of all US states have LAWS against mask mandates.  Guess what people, as Grappler said, it's the vaccinated that are contracting and spreading Omicron.  This variant has gotten stronger against our vaccines.

Though I do agree to your first part.  I didn't copy/paste the part about avoiding hospitalization/death should not be the standard of success.  Even "mild" cases have the potential for individual consequences, let alone the societal ones associated with a spread R value over 4 (at least, here in Ontario at the moment).

Be careful of your language though; has it gotten STRONGER or more resistant but in a milder form?  We can have 330 million people contract COVID, if it's a strain that gives you a momentary bout of gas.   The idea was to avoid the burden on the hospitals, and to alleviate the other, consequential losses from missed work, etc.

I know three people that have contracted COVID in the last month or so, and all three were relatively mild cases.  Missed work, but no hint of "hospital" or any of the dire consequences that were prevalent early on.  That MAY be our new reality.

Well, either you skipped this part of the article / my post, or you skipped the whole thing (:biggrin:) so I'll copy it again.

"And even if Omicron is milder, greater transmissibility will likely trump that reduced virulence. Omicron is spreading so quickly that a small proportion of severe cases could still flood hospitals."

And if those 3 people spread it to 12 more, to 48 more, to 192 more within a span of a couple of weeks... are all of those just going to have a "mild" case. 

@ Cram ... I read that too (and posted it above).  Omicron is replicates 10x slower in the lungs; but 70x more quickly in the airways.

The most vulnerable are still the most vulnerable here (older, immunocompromised, unvaccinated). 

Exactly... and there's a shit-ton of those people in the US.  Lots up here too, but not as much given our roughly 82% of total population with at least 1 dose

I'll just way what I repeatedly said back in Feb '20 - time will tell.  But there are a lot of warning signs.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2789 on: December 16, 2021, 07:12:53 PM »
Got the booster about two hours ago.  I now await that feeling tomorrow where I feel like a train ran over me. :eek :eek :lol :lol

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2790 on: December 17, 2021, 04:46:31 AM »
South Africa is preliminarily reporting a significant decrease in fatality rate amidst the omicron surge compared to delta, it's gone down to 0,5% from 3,0%. This is believed to be a result of the country's age structure and vaccines still being fairly effective against severe cases.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2021, 05:04:40 AM by Luoto »
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2791 on: December 17, 2021, 06:35:31 AM »
South Africa is preliminarily reporting a significant decrease in fatality rate amidst the omicron surge compared to delta, it's gone down to 0,5% from 3,0%. This is believed to be a result of the country's age structure and vaccines still being fairly effective against severe cases.

... And that they had fairly high levels of infection based immunity from the previous strains.  I just saw a headline that SA's case counts may be "plateauing" - although, still higher than any other point during the pandemic.  The four countries that are breaking records at the moment:

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2792 on: December 17, 2021, 09:20:46 AM »
Really can't post about this anywhere else for obvious reasons, but I did a Xmas party last night for a medium sized (600ppl) account of ours last night. Now, our company followed all strict protocols of the SF area as best we could, but the clients we served...it was scary. Granted, the company requires everyone to be fully vaxxed, but once the drinks started flowing, the masks disappeared, the hugs were plentiful, and social distancing was non existent. It was basically a pre covid party atmosphere. (and they had reasons to party since every employee got a grand as a xmas bonus). Personally very curious to see if there's a spike in cases from this event, I know most of the staff that handles this account on the regular, so I'll get real time info on it.

Also it'll be interesting to see how this season fares in less vaxxed areas, especially with omicron gaining traction.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2793 on: December 17, 2021, 09:23:45 AM »
Really can't post about this anywhere else for obvious reasons, but I did a Xmas party last night for a medium sized (600ppl) account of ours last night. Now, our company followed all strict protocols of the SF area as best we could, but the clients we served...it was scary. Granted, the company requires everyone to be fully vaxxed, but once the drinks started flowing, the masks disappeared, the hugs were plentiful, and social distancing was non existent. It was basically a pre covid party atmosphere. (and they had reasons to party since every employee got a grand as a xmas bonus). Personally very curious to see if there's a spike in cases from this event, I know most of the staff that handles this account on the regular, so I'll get real time info on it.

Also it'll be interesting to see how this season fares in less vaxxed areas, especially with omicron gaining traction.

Doesn't sound any different than going to a concert these days.  I've got tickets to see Clutch on the 28th, sold out 2k capacity GA ballroom.  Vaccines only to get in, but with omicron, who knows it this will just spread throughout the venue if someone is carrying it.  Either way, as long as it happens and I'm not sick, I expect to be there and take that risk. 

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2794 on: December 17, 2021, 09:30:02 AM »
Got the booster about two hours ago.  I now await that feeling tomorrow where I feel like a train ran over me. :eek :eek :lol :lol

Hope the 3rd time is a charm.  ;) I think I have to wait 3 months for mine (Feb 19th).
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2795 on: December 17, 2021, 09:55:07 AM »
Some of the new cases in NYC are being linked to SantaCon, which was a little less than 2 weeks ago.

Not sure if Santacon is just a NYC thing, but for those that don't know, Santacon is a day where a bunch of people dress like Santa, and go from bar to bar drinking starting at 10am. FWIW, part of it is also for charity (toy drive), but mainly the drinking and partying.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2796 on: December 17, 2021, 09:56:52 AM »
Really can't post about this anywhere else for obvious reasons, but I did a Xmas party last night for a medium sized (600ppl) account of ours last night. Now, our company followed all strict protocols of the SF area as best we could, but the clients we served...it was scary. Granted, the company requires everyone to be fully vaxxed, but once the drinks started flowing, the masks disappeared, the hugs were plentiful, and social distancing was non existent. It was basically a pre covid party atmosphere. (and they had reasons to party since every employee got a grand as a xmas bonus). Personally very curious to see if there's a spike in cases from this event, I know most of the staff that handles this account on the regular, so I'll get real time info on it.

Also it'll be interesting to see how this season fares in less vaxxed areas, especially with omicron gaining traction.

Doesn't sound any different than going to a concert these days.  I've got tickets to see Clutch on the 28th, sold out 2k capacity GA ballroom.  Vaccines only to get in, but with omicron, who knows it this will just spread throughout the venue if someone is carrying it.  Either way, as long as it happens and I'm not sick, I expect to be there and take that risk.

They had a karaoke room...about 40 people in a small, enclosed space, drunk as fuck singing Sweet Caroline at the top of their lungs without masks.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2797 on: December 17, 2021, 10:15:23 AM »
Really can't post about this anywhere else for obvious reasons, but I did a Xmas party last night for a medium sized (600ppl) account of ours last night. Now, our company followed all strict protocols of the SF area as best we could, but the clients we served...it was scary. Granted, the company requires everyone to be fully vaxxed, but once the drinks started flowing, the masks disappeared, the hugs were plentiful, and social distancing was non existent. It was basically a pre covid party atmosphere. (and they had reasons to party since every employee got a grand as a xmas bonus). Personally very curious to see if there's a spike in cases from this event, I know most of the staff that handles this account on the regular, so I'll get real time info on it.

Also it'll be interesting to see how this season fares in less vaxxed areas, especially with omicron gaining traction.

Doesn't sound any different than going to a concert these days.  I've got tickets to see Clutch on the 28th, sold out 2k capacity GA ballroom.  Vaccines only to get in, but with omicron, who knows it this will just spread throughout the venue if someone is carrying it.  Either way, as long as it happens and I'm not sick, I expect to be there and take that risk.

They had a karaoke room...about 40 people in a small, enclosed space, drunk as fuck singing Sweet Caroline at the top of their lungs without masks.

I will say that it kind of sucks to have to work in that environment, especially if you are uncomfortable, but it just doesn't sound that different than what's going on in most of the US.  People are going to gather and party for the holidays.  I'm missing my friend's christmas party on Saturday for example, like 30 people indoors drinking and eating, maskless and some aren't vaccinated.  My friends in laws said they aren't comfortable now and may not go, and I think that's fine, but the party otherwise will go on.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2799 on: December 17, 2021, 08:44:26 PM »
Got the booster about two hours ago.  I now await that feeling tomorrow where I feel like a train ran over me. :eek :eek :lol :lol

Hope the 3rd time is a charm.  ;) I think I have to wait 3 months for mine (Feb 19th).

Thanks.  Today was not great, but it wasn't as bad as after the 2nd shot. That felt like I had been run over by a train.  Today was just like a small car slightly dinged me. :lol