Author Topic: Coronavirus Thread v.2  (Read 194816 times)

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2450 on: October 08, 2021, 11:21:25 AM »
Also, if you took a vaccine then your symptoms should be similar to the common cold.
That is not necessarily true. 
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2451 on: October 08, 2021, 11:53:46 AM »
Also, if you took a vaccine then your symptoms should be similar to the common cold.
That is not necessarily true.

"SHOULD" as in, people who do catch it may likely have asymptomatic symptoms and won't know the difference between the common cold and Covid-19. Until that person goes and voluntarily gets tested, they won't know for sure they have it. You have people out there who did take the vaccine who are assuming, since the symptoms are not bad, they have the common cold. They will then pop a Tylenol and go about their day as normal.

The advice from doctors that they have said long before Covid-19 is holding to actually be worthwhile..."Stay Home" if you feel sick. Wash your hands to prevent the spread of harmful bacteria and germs, especially after wiping your bum (which I have witnessed that not many people would do before Covid-19). My dad actually was working with someone one time who went to work, snotty nosed and all, they told him to go home and he finally did after their lunch break. He went to the doctor and found out he had Pneumonia. Even still, my dad said he was out there smoking a cigarette...

What Covid-19 made me realize is how careless people were with this advice and how gross and unsanitary people are. Makes me imagine how nasty and unsanitary those people from the colonizer boats were. It's a neat insight to the possibility that we were killed off by disease because they were unsanitary and were full of these sicknesses. But yet, here we are still, struggling, but still here.

Rather than being negative. I feel it's also beneficial to be optimistic and realize that throughout history, we humans have survived a lot. And we shouldn't let a virus make our minds so fearful of sudden doom, to the point where we can actually shape and mold it to reality.



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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2452 on: October 08, 2021, 12:39:22 PM »
Now...onto the good stuff. With some of the best numbers of the Delta surge in the nation, the SF Bay Area announced that they will be easing mask mandates next Friday.

The Delta surge is interesting; it looks to be following that similar COVID ebb and flow of roughly two months.  That aspect of this virus is fascinating.

This is Yahoo, but it's the same article that originally appeared in the NY Times "Morning" publication (which is excellent, by the way).

One thing that sticks out at me, primarily because I have posted it here before, is this quote:
“We’ve ascribed far too much human authority over the virus,” as Michael Osterholm, an infectious-disease expert at the University of Minnesota, has told me.

And how does that authority transpire into the reactions of the people? By generating fear, you create panic and in the state of panic people will start to look for help and end up resorting to their leaders for guidance on what to do.

This leads followers to easily be manipulated into authoritarian control and demands. It then forms a justification for the authority under the context of public safety and the health of the community, for their mandates and orders.

And this quote from that article shows that fear of the unknown...

Quote
Public health researchers do not understand why. Many popular explanations — such as seasonality or the ebbs and flows of mask wearing and social distancing — are clearly insufficient, if not wrong. The two-month cycle has occurred during different seasons of the year and occurred even when human behavior was not changing in obvious ways.

The most-plausible explanations involve some combination of virus biology and social networks. Perhaps each virus variant is especially likely to infect some people but not others — and once many of the most vulnerable have been exposed, the virus recedes. And perhaps a variant needs about two months to circulate through an average-sized community.


Also, if you took a vaccine then your symptoms should be similar to the common cold. And thus, it's not an illness one should be concerned about more so than the other sicknesses you can still get, unrelated to the Covid-19 strand of Coronaviruses.

Well, I think the "fear" is the problem; we KNOW that there are fundamental differences in how people assimilate and deal with "fear", and there are even studies that show how those differences feed (generally) into political party affiliations.    Just because Person A is "fearful" of COVID and goes and gets a vaccine, doesn't mean that Person B will do the same in the face of the same fear.

I'm also just as "fearful" of government overreach and furthering this opinion that government is here to protect us from ourselves.  So which "fear" controls?

Offline hunnus2000

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2453 on: October 08, 2021, 01:42:12 PM »
Now...onto the good stuff. With some of the best numbers of the Delta surge in the nation, the SF Bay Area announced that they will be easing mask mandates next Friday.

The Delta surge is interesting; it looks to be following that similar COVID ebb and flow of roughly two months.  That aspect of this virus is fascinating.

This is Yahoo, but it's the same article that originally appeared in the NY Times "Morning" publication (which is excellent, by the way).

One thing that sticks out at me, primarily because I have posted it here before, is this quote:
“We’ve ascribed far too much human authority over the virus,” as Michael Osterholm, an infectious-disease expert at the University of Minnesota, has told me.

And how does that authority transpire into the reactions of the people? By generating fear, you create panic and in the state of panic people will start to look for help and end up resorting to their leaders for guidance on what to do.

This leads followers to easily be manipulated into authoritarian control and demands. It then forms a justification for the authority under the context of public safety and the health of the community, for their mandates and orders.

And this quote from that article shows that fear of the unknown...

Quote
Public health researchers do not understand why. Many popular explanations — such as seasonality or the ebbs and flows of mask wearing and social distancing — are clearly insufficient, if not wrong. The two-month cycle has occurred during different seasons of the year and occurred even when human behavior was not changing in obvious ways.

The most-plausible explanations involve some combination of virus biology and social networks. Perhaps each virus variant is especially likely to infect some people but not others — and once many of the most vulnerable have been exposed, the virus recedes. And perhaps a variant needs about two months to circulate through an average-sized community.


Also, if you took a vaccine then your symptoms should be similar to the common cold. And thus, it's not an illness one should be concerned about more so than the other sicknesses you can still get, unrelated to the Covid-19 strand of Coronaviruses.

Well, I think the "fear" is the problem; we KNOW that there are fundamental differences in how people assimilate and deal with "fear", and there are even studies that show how those differences feed (generally) into political party affiliations.    Just because Person A is "fearful" of COVID and goes and gets a vaccine, doesn't mean that Person B will do the same in the face of the same fear.

I'm also just as "fearful" of government overreach and furthering this opinion that government is here to protect us from ourselves.  So which "fear" controls?

Are you talking about the current government that wants t save lives or the past government that willingly spreading misinformation that has costs hundreds of thousands of lives needlessly?

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2454 on: October 08, 2021, 02:17:35 PM »
 :corn

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2455 on: October 08, 2021, 02:17:47 PM »
Now...onto the good stuff. With some of the best numbers of the Delta surge in the nation, the SF Bay Area announced that they will be easing mask mandates next Friday.

The Delta surge is interesting; it looks to be following that similar COVID ebb and flow of roughly two months.  That aspect of this virus is fascinating.

This is Yahoo, but it's the same article that originally appeared in the NY Times "Morning" publication (which is excellent, by the way).

One thing that sticks out at me, primarily because I have posted it here before, is this quote:
“We’ve ascribed far too much human authority over the virus,” as Michael Osterholm, an infectious-disease expert at the University of Minnesota, has told me.

And how does that authority transpire into the reactions of the people? By generating fear, you create panic and in the state of panic people will start to look for help and end up resorting to their leaders for guidance on what to do.

This leads followers to easily be manipulated into authoritarian control and demands. It then forms a justification for the authority under the context of public safety and the health of the community, for their mandates and orders.

And this quote from that article shows that fear of the unknown...

Quote
Public health researchers do not understand why. Many popular explanations — such as seasonality or the ebbs and flows of mask wearing and social distancing — are clearly insufficient, if not wrong. The two-month cycle has occurred during different seasons of the year and occurred even when human behavior was not changing in obvious ways.

The most-plausible explanations involve some combination of virus biology and social networks. Perhaps each virus variant is especially likely to infect some people but not others — and once many of the most vulnerable have been exposed, the virus recedes. And perhaps a variant needs about two months to circulate through an average-sized community.


Also, if you took a vaccine then your symptoms should be similar to the common cold. And thus, it's not an illness one should be concerned about more so than the other sicknesses you can still get, unrelated to the Covid-19 strand of Coronaviruses.

Well, I think the "fear" is the problem; we KNOW that there are fundamental differences in how people assimilate and deal with "fear", and there are even studies that show how those differences feed (generally) into political party affiliations.    Just because Person A is "fearful" of COVID and goes and gets a vaccine, doesn't mean that Person B will do the same in the face of the same fear.

I'm also just as "fearful" of government overreach and furthering this opinion that government is here to protect us from ourselves.  So which "fear" controls?

Are you talking about the current government that wants t save lives or the past government that willingly spreading misinformation that has costs hundreds of thousands of lives needlessly?

Not going to bite; you know (or should know) I'm not coming at this from a point of "sides".  Your spin on the current and past administration don't sway me (whether I agree with them or not); there are plenty of people who could spin them both just as much in the opposite direction.  Personally I tend to think, as usual, we're in the middle somewhere.

I'm talking about a more general philosophical approach that says "I feel we need this, government make it so!"

Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2456 on: October 08, 2021, 03:16:37 PM »
A case that had me musing out loud for the past two days.

This week in Serbia, a woman pregnant with twins was admitted to the hospital in very bad condition from the virus. Unvaxd; despite the official recommendation that you can and should get the shots if you're pregnant, there's plenty of people saying "nah, just wait until you've had the baby, just in case", including many gynecologists (many key antivaxx media figures in Serbia are doctors). Sadly, the doctors couldn't save neither her nor the babies. She was 20. Her 22-year-old fiance was interviewed and he said, and I quote: "I'm not one of those deniers or anything, but this is a little sus to me: it's been only ten days since we knew she was sick, I don't know how it's possible to die that quickly??" When asked how he dealt with the virus, seeing how they lived together and all, he answered that "he's fine, not vaccinated and didn't get tested".

I'm not sure why we turn a blind eye to the kind of pervasive selective disinformation that will give someone half a clue that it's not good to say you deny the existence of the virus, but not enough of a clue to get tested when the woman you live with is hooked to a respirator. Or why it's often said it's impolite to saturate society with "pro-vax propaganda" because people are informed enough to decide whether or not they should take it on their own, but that average someone is apparently not informed enough to know that, yes, sometimes it takes ten days from when you start feeling sick enough to go see a doctor to death.

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Offline Grappler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2457 on: October 08, 2021, 07:39:40 PM »
I can't believe it's come to this, but I fired off this email to my school board tonight.  It speaks for itself, really. 

Quote
I would like to draw your attention to something concerning that now involves one of the board members' activities on social media.  I have not yet made this public, as I feel the board should have an opportunity to handle this internally.

Board Member XXXXX is and has remained an administrator of the YYYY Facebook Group during his term as a board member. (Screenshot #1)

Today, a post in this Facebook group was made by a parent in the district and is strongly advocating that area school districts should be sued via a class action lawsuit regarding the school's mask mandate.  The lawsuit would be handled by attorney ZZZZ, who has made a name for himself over the last year and a half by acting as an advocate for individuals and businesses that disagree with proactive COVID measures designed to limit the spread of the virus.  (Screenshot 2).

This parent followed up in a comment to her original post, stating that they are taking the lead in contacting Attorney ZZZZ in naming District ____ as a defendant in a class action suit (Screenshot #3).

Approximately one month ago, as schools in the area were starting their fall sessions, Board member XXXXX made a public comment elsewhere on a Facebook page, advocating for a different school district to contact Attorney ZZZZ and file suit to fight the mandate. (Screenshot #4)
 
Board member XXXX's position as an administrator in this Facebook group that is now publicly allowing the facilitation of a class action lawsuit against District ____ puts him in a very bad conflict of interest.  It also goes directly against the oath that he took as a school board member to uphold the district's taxpayer interests (https://ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name=094-0881&GA=94), which is backed by Illinois state law in the link provided.
 
This can also certainly be considered a breach of Fiduciary duty by Board Member XXXX as well going against state law and his oath.  While he did not advocate for school districts to be sued, the optics of him naming Attorney ZZZZ in a personal comment, while allowing parents in a Facebook group that he runs to also contact Attorney Devore are not good.  It is very easy to deduce that he would support District ____ being sued, despite being a board member, given his public comments against mask mandates for students.
 
Personally, I would hate to see our district dragged into a lawsuit over masks.  Like many, I wish that the children did not need to wear them, but I am thankful that the district has taken such proactive measures for our children's health.  If the district were named in a lawsuit, nobody wins, especially the kids.
 
Seeing one of our own board members putting their personal and political beliefs ahead of his duties as a board member and ahead of the safety and health of our children is very troubling.
 
Thank you for your time.

I'm interested in seeing what happens with this, as I laid out a nice little case for a school board member potentially breaking not only his oath as a board member, but Illinois state law, by letting an unofficial Facebook group about the school district that he runs discuss and facilitate a possible class action suit against his own school district. 
« Last Edit: October 09, 2021, 08:33:47 AM by Grappler »

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2458 on: October 09, 2021, 06:39:57 AM »
Just sayin, you failed to redact a few instances of the names of the Board Member and Attorney.

But yah, that's shyte.  People are the worst.
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Offline Grappler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2459 on: October 09, 2021, 08:34:09 AM »
Thanks...fixed!   

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2460 on: October 09, 2021, 08:36:33 AM »
Thanks...fixed!

Still missed one!   :lol
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2461 on: October 09, 2021, 08:55:48 AM »
Now...onto the good stuff. With some of the best numbers of the Delta surge in the nation, the SF Bay Area announced that they will be easing mask mandates next Friday.

The Delta surge is interesting; it looks to be following that similar COVID ebb and flow of roughly two months.  That aspect of this virus is fascinating.

This is Yahoo, but it's the same article that originally appeared in the NY Times "Morning" publication (which is excellent, by the way).

One thing that sticks out at me, primarily because I have posted it here before, is this quote:
“We’ve ascribed far too much human authority over the virus,” as Michael Osterholm, an infectious-disease expert at the University of Minnesota, has told me.

And how does that authority transpire into the reactions of the people? By generating fear, you create panic and in the state of panic people will start to look for help and end up resorting to their leaders for guidance on what to do.

This leads followers to easily be manipulated into authoritarian control and demands. It then forms a justification for the authority under the context of public safety and the health of the community, for their mandates and orders.

And this quote from that article shows that fear of the unknown...

Quote
Public health researchers do not understand why. Many popular explanations — such as seasonality or the ebbs and flows of mask wearing and social distancing — are clearly insufficient, if not wrong. The two-month cycle has occurred during different seasons of the year and occurred even when human behavior was not changing in obvious ways.

The most-plausible explanations involve some combination of virus biology and social networks. Perhaps each virus variant is especially likely to infect some people but not others — and once many of the most vulnerable have been exposed, the virus recedes. And perhaps a variant needs about two months to circulate through an average-sized community.


Also, if you took a vaccine then your symptoms should be similar to the common cold. And thus, it's not an illness one should be concerned about more so than the other sicknesses you can still get, unrelated to the Covid-19 strand of Coronaviruses.

Well, I think the "fear" is the problem; we KNOW that there are fundamental differences in how people assimilate and deal with "fear", and there are even studies that show how those differences feed (generally) into political party affiliations.    Just because Person A is "fearful" of COVID and goes and gets a vaccine, doesn't mean that Person B will do the same in the face of the same fear.

I'm also just as "fearful" of government overreach and furthering this opinion that government is here to protect us from ourselves.  So which "fear" controls?

I don't necessarily have "fear" of the government more so that I have generational trauma caused by the governments treatment of my people and my ancestors, and also my grandparents.

This knowledge of what we knew that very well could've, and does, benefit the people was demolished and wiped away. Our Self-Dependancy was taken by making us assimilate into being "christian" and then "civilized". Now we are dependant and reliant on the very people that did this to us.

The trauma caused by the government and distrust of it, overweighs my fear of the virus. And it's true, look at the abuse of power the leaders are doing playing off of the fear people have of this virus.

And in this modern society people fear a lot of things because of their ignorance. Humans have a natural fear of the unknown. While others do not have that fear and will take the risk, to help that bear that fell, to rescue that kid stuck in the train tracks, or help that women being mugged rather than recording the incident happening so they can get social media likes.


Now...onto the good stuff. With some of the best numbers of the Delta surge in the nation, the SF Bay Area announced that they will be easing mask mandates next Friday.

The Delta surge is interesting; it looks to be following that similar COVID ebb and flow of roughly two months.  That aspect of this virus is fascinating.

This is Yahoo, but it's the same article that originally appeared in the NY Times "Morning" publication (which is excellent, by the way).

One thing that sticks out at me, primarily because I have posted it here before, is this quote:
“We’ve ascribed far too much human authority over the virus,” as Michael Osterholm, an infectious-disease expert at the University of Minnesota, has told me.

And how does that authority transpire into the reactions of the people? By generating fear, you create panic and in the state of panic people will start to look for help and end up resorting to their leaders for guidance on what to do.

This leads followers to easily be manipulated into authoritarian control and demands. It then forms a justification for the authority under the context of public safety and the health of the community, for their mandates and orders.

And this quote from that article shows that fear of the unknown...

Quote
Public health researchers do not understand why. Many popular explanations — such as seasonality or the ebbs and flows of mask wearing and social distancing — are clearly insufficient, if not wrong. The two-month cycle has occurred during different seasons of the year and occurred even when human behavior was not changing in obvious ways.

The most-plausible explanations involve some combination of virus biology and social networks. Perhaps each virus variant is especially likely to infect some people but not others — and once many of the most vulnerable have been exposed, the virus recedes. And perhaps a variant needs about two months to circulate through an average-sized community.


Also, if you took a vaccine then your symptoms should be similar to the common cold. And thus, it's not an illness one should be concerned about more so than the other sicknesses you can still get, unrelated to the Covid-19 strand of Coronaviruses.

Well, I think the "fear" is the problem; we KNOW that there are fundamental differences in how people assimilate and deal with "fear", and there are even studies that show how those differences feed (generally) into political party affiliations.    Just because Person A is "fearful" of COVID and goes and gets a vaccine, doesn't mean that Person B will do the same in the face of the same fear.

I'm also just as "fearful" of government overreach and furthering this opinion that government is here to protect us from ourselves.  So which "fear" controls?

Are you talking about the current government that wants t save lives or the past government that willingly spreading misinformation that has costs hundreds of thousands of lives needlessly?

The government that spread misinformation about minorites such as the slaves and the native peoples being called, hopeless and savage by the newspapers to generate a reaction against the minorites and keep them under white superiority and dominance.

According to the Christians/Catholics, we were savage pagans that needed to be saved from eternal damnation. Because they care so much about our souls not being given the eternal glory of heaven. And the church misinformed their congregation that our ways were evil and demon.

And then the government did the same thing, only we were savage and needed to become "model citizens" of civilization to become a part of this great empire called America, as we were considered a problem.  So they said, "The only good indians are dead." So we must "Destroy the Indian, while saving the man" straight psychological warfare by taking away the children into the boarding schools.

That's exactly what they did and why I just laugh because that hand we minorites were dealt has been dealt to the American people now. Albeit it's more a push than a shove.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2021, 09:01:20 AM by Ben_Jamin »
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2462 on: October 09, 2021, 10:13:43 AM »
I can't believe it's come to this, but I fired off this email to my school board tonight.  It speaks for itself, really. 

Quote
I would like to draw your attention to something concerning that now involves one of the board members' activities on social media.  I have not yet made this public, as I feel the board should have an opportunity to handle this internally.

Board Member XXXXX is and has remained an administrator of the YYYY Facebook Group during his term as a board member. (Screenshot #1)

Today, a post in this Facebook group was made by a parent in the district and is strongly advocating that area school districts should be sued via a class action lawsuit regarding the school's mask mandate.  The lawsuit would be handled by attorney ZZZZ, who has made a name for himself over the last year and a half by acting as an advocate for individuals and businesses that disagree with proactive COVID measures designed to limit the spread of the virus.  (Screenshot 2).

This parent followed up in a comment to her original post, stating that they are taking the lead in contacting Attorney ZZZZ in naming District ____ as a defendant in a class action suit (Screenshot #3).

Approximately one month ago, as schools in the area were starting their fall sessions, Board member XXXXX made a public comment elsewhere on a Facebook page, advocating for a different school district to contact Attorney ZZZZ and file suit to fight the mandate. (Screenshot #4)
 
Board member XXXX's position as an administrator in this Facebook group that is now publicly allowing the facilitation of a class action lawsuit against District ____ puts him in a very bad conflict of interest.  It also goes directly against the oath that he took as a school board member to uphold the district's taxpayer interests (https://ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name=094-0881&GA=94), which is backed by Illinois state law in the link provided.
 
This can also certainly be considered a breach of Fiduciary duty by Board Member XXXX as well going against state law and his oath.  While he did not advocate for school districts to be sued, the optics of him naming Attorney ZZZZ in a personal comment, while allowing parents in a Facebook group that he runs to also contact Attorney Devore are not good.  It is very easy to deduce that he would support District ____ being sued, despite being a board member, given his public comments against mask mandates for students.
 
Personally, I would hate to see our district dragged into a lawsuit over masks.  Like many, I wish that the children did not need to wear them, but I am thankful that the district has taken such proactive measures for our children's health.  If the district were named in a lawsuit, nobody wins, especially the kids.
 
Seeing one of our own board members putting their personal and political beliefs ahead of his duties as a board member and ahead of the safety and health of our children is very troubling.
 
Thank you for your time.

I'm interested in seeing what happens with this, as I laid out a nice little case for a school board member potentially breaking not only his oath as a board member, but Illinois state law, by letting an unofficial Facebook group about the school district that he runs discuss and facilitate a possible class action suit against his own school district.

Just asking a question here.... the school puts a mandate in place that there can be no activities with any focus on race, religion or ethnicity.  Same school board member goes on and advocates that Attorney ZZZZ sue the school to allow for the kids to meet as a sort of local chapter of Black Lives Matter.  Are you writing that letter?  Are you maintaining that the board member broke their oath (by the way, it's possible they did not*)?   Are you maintaining that that school board member is breaking their fiduciary duty (which they do have)?   

Don't assume I'm judging whether it is right or wrong in either instance, I'm just asking about your general feelings. 

A sort of tangentially related question, though: why is any diversion from "pro-vaccine, pro-mask" immediately determined to be "political"? 



* The oath of office I saw for Illinois School Board Members includes this line: "I shall abide by majority decisions of the board, while retaining the right to seek changes in such decisions through ethical and constructive channels;"  I think you have a hard putt to claim that social media and the State Courts of Illinois are neither ethical or constructive.

Offline Grappler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2463 on: October 09, 2021, 11:11:24 AM »
Just asking a question here.... the school puts a mandate in place that there can be no activities with any focus on race, religion or ethnicity.  Same school board member goes on and advocates that Attorney ZZZZ sue the school to allow for the kids to meet as a sort of local chapter of Black Lives Matter.  Are you writing that letter?  Are you maintaining that the board member broke their oath (by the way, it's possible they did not*)?   Are you maintaining that that school board member is breaking their fiduciary duty (which they do have)?   

Don't assume I'm judging whether it is right or wrong in either instance, I'm just asking about your general feelings. 

I am not taking up other fights.  I took issue with one thing.  A different parent who feels strongly in that situation may take it up with the board. 

The same parent organizing the lawsuit against the district tends to take up issues that concern her and her family (i.e. "a teacher taught my kids about transgender issues, and my family believes homosexuality to be immoral and wrong, and should not be taught by schools" - this is actually something that she brought to the board within the last year)


Quote
A sort of tangentially related question, though: why is any diversion from "pro-vaccine, pro-mask" immediately determined to be "political"? 

The board member in question is a prominent local Republican, and the comment that I screenshotted from him appeared on another prominent Republican's page.  His issues with our state's Democratic governor are well documented through area social media groups and he is very vocal about not following the governor's mandates.  The lawyer that is being hired is a prominent Republican lawyer that has taken charge against our state's Democratic governor in all things related to COVID (mandates, economic closures, etc.).  This issue is political at its core - he is undermining the school board's mandate and is not stopping the discussion of a lawsuit against the school because he personally agrees with it.

Quote
* The oath of office I saw for Illinois School Board Members includes this line: "I shall abide by majority decisions of the board, while retaining the right to seek changes in such decisions through ethical and constructive channels;"  I think you have a hard putt to claim that social media and the State Courts of Illinois are neither ethical or constructive.

That may be true, but the basis of this claim is that the social media group that he runs is facilitating a lawsuit against the school.  He maintains that his comments in said group are solely as a parent and not as a board member, and he does abstain from certain conversations, but the fact remains that he IS a board member.  He has a fiduciary duty to use our taxpayer dollars wisely, and not to endanger those funds in a backhanded manner.  He does want mask mandates to end, despite the board's vote.  I think a lawsuit against the school district is not a constructive channel.  The school district has to use taxpayer dollars to defend itself. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2464 on: October 09, 2021, 12:38:04 PM »
Just asking a question here.... the school puts a mandate in place that there can be no activities with any focus on race, religion or ethnicity.  Same school board member goes on and advocates that Attorney ZZZZ sue the school to allow for the kids to meet as a sort of local chapter of Black Lives Matter.  Are you writing that letter?  Are you maintaining that the board member broke their oath (by the way, it's possible they did not*)?   Are you maintaining that that school board member is breaking their fiduciary duty (which they do have)?   

Don't assume I'm judging whether it is right or wrong in either instance, I'm just asking about your general feelings. 

I am not taking up other fights.  I took issue with one thing.  A different parent who feels strongly in that situation may take it up with the board. 

The same parent organizing the lawsuit against the district tends to take up issues that concern her and her family (i.e. "a teacher taught my kids about transgender issues, and my family believes homosexuality to be immoral and wrong, and should not be taught by schools" - this is actually something that she brought to the board within the last year)

I'm trying to get to the process.   We are allowed to disagree, even when "science" seems to weigh in favor of one side or another.  I'm trying to get to what you see as what should be that process for reasonable, legitimate disagreement. 

Our society - not you, necessarily, but you can feel free to tell me I'm wrong - has seemed to morph away from a content-free process that should work for everyone, to a content-based process that seems to only work if you have the "right" (correct) position.  We're mixing threads here, but when Lonestar and I talk about majority rule and the problems therein, this is one of them.


Quote
The board member in question is a prominent local Republican, and the comment that I screenshotted from him appeared on another prominent Republican's page.  His issues with our state's Democratic governor are well documented through area social media groups and he is very vocal about not following the governor's mandates.  The lawyer that is being hired is a prominent Republican lawyer that has taken charge against our state's Democratic governor in all things related to COVID (mandates, economic closures, etc.).  This issue is political at its core - he is undermining the school board's mandate and is not stopping the discussion of a lawsuit against the school because he personally agrees with it.

So what?  So why isn't the position advocated by Democrats likewise political?  Again, I'm not grilling you I'm trying to understand; see above.

Quote
That may be true, but the basis of this claim is that the social media group that he runs is facilitating a lawsuit against the school.  He maintains that his comments in said group are solely as a parent and not as a board member, and he does abstain from certain conversations, but the fact remains that he IS a board member.  He has a fiduciary duty to use our taxpayer dollars wisely, and not to endanger those funds in a backhanded manner.  He does want mask mandates to end, despite the board's vote.  I think a lawsuit against the school district is not a constructive channel.  The school district has to use taxpayer dollars to defend itself.

Why do you say "endanger" those funds?   The Courts of our country are here for the very purpose they are being used for.  You seem to view "lawsuit" as a bad thing, but this is how we progress the rules and laws of our society.  Roe v. Wade started as a lawsuit.  If that lawsuit comes through and the School Board wins, that is precedent for the entire state. That makes it that much harder for this person to do what they want to do in the future.  I would think that if you view the position as sound, that would be a good thing, no?  Conversely, if the class action wins, you weren't right, and the best interests of the students WEREN'T being served here.   

How do you propose people disagree in a democratic representative republic?

Offline Grappler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2465 on: October 09, 2021, 12:48:06 PM »
I put the issue in front of the board.  If he is in the right, then they and their attorney can confirm it.  Personally, I feel that he is in the wrong, which is why I brought it to their attention.

This isn't necessairly about masks, mandates, lawsuits or politics.  It is that he has put himself in a conflict of interest, which is a big no-no for any member of a board of directors. I believe that he has a moral and legal obligation to quash that discussion.  His oath as a board member doesn't end when a monthly meeting adjourns.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2466 on: October 09, 2021, 12:56:29 PM »
I put the issue in front of the board.  If he is in the right, then they and their attorney can confirm it.  Personally, I feel that he is in the wrong, which is why I brought it to their attention.

This isn't necessairly about masks, mandates, lawsuits or politics.  It is that he has put himself in a conflict of interest, which is a big no-no for any member of a board of directors. I believe that he has a moral and legal obligation to quash that discussion.  His oath as a board member doesn't end when a monthly meeting adjourns.

Dead serious, and completely sincere: keep us posted.  I'm interested to see how it turns out.

Offline Grappler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2467 on: October 09, 2021, 03:05:25 PM »
Will do, and thanks for the back and forth.  It got me thinking and I sent a follow up email to the school board clarifying that 5his isn't about politics or mask usage, it's about the conflict of interest and the board members attempt to separate himself as a parent when he 8s online, yet still having a duty to taxpayers.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2469 on: October 12, 2021, 01:56:41 PM »
Fascinating article on the relative pluses and minuses of vaccines by age.

I've been loving the NYT coverage of covid the last few months.  I'm sure you've noticed a lot of my takes in this thread often follow what I may have read that morning from reading these daily newsletters.  I think they've been very balanced in presenting opposing sides and they seem to usually follow the data and science. 

This data is not that surprising though.  Children have not been an issue in this pandemic.  Not to say children havent gotten sick or even died, but the numbers are just so low that it has been and continues to be quite clear that they are not at any serious risk of long term or short term issues.  It is still the elderly and sickly, specifically now the elderly/sickly unvaccinated that are the main issue and it still boggles my mind that if you fall into that catagory and choose not to get a potential life saving vaccine.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2470 on: October 12, 2021, 02:09:29 PM »
Fascinating article on the relative pluses and minuses of vaccines by age.

I've been loving the NYT coverage of covid the last few months.  I'm sure you've noticed a lot of my takes in this thread often follow what I may have read that morning from reading these daily newsletters.  I think they've been very balanced in presenting opposing sides and they seem to usually follow the data and science. 

This data is not that surprising though.  Children have not been an issue in this pandemic.  Not to say children havent gotten sick or even died, but the numbers are just so low that it has been and continues to be quite clear that they are not at any serious risk of long term or short term issues.  It is still the elderly and sickly, specifically now the elderly/sickly unvaccinated that are the main issue and it still boggles my mind that if you fall into that catagory and choose not to get a potential life saving vaccine.

That's their choice if they do or don't. Like with any medical decision it's their choice whether to take the advice or not. And a lot of people I know do not take their doctors advice anyways.

Most elderly I know are ending up with a lot of pills to take that I do think it's making them lethargic. This is also due to their diets and how stubborn they are with not eating salt, sugars, or stuff that's high in fat. But it's hard when these foods are considered traditional foods.

That's what boggles my mind is it's not just a vaccine issue.  It's in general, health issues that are unrelated to the vaccine and the stubbornness of the elderly people.
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Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2471 on: October 12, 2021, 02:24:15 PM »
asymptomatic symptoms

 :lol :rollin :lol  That's a good one Dr. Fauci.  :clap:
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2472 on: October 12, 2021, 02:27:06 PM »
 :lol

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2473 on: October 12, 2021, 03:15:08 PM »
Fascinating article on the relative pluses and minuses of vaccines by age.

I've been loving the NYT coverage of covid the last few months.  I'm sure you've noticed a lot of my takes in this thread often follow what I may have read that morning from reading these daily newsletters.  I think they've been very balanced in presenting opposing sides and they seem to usually follow the data and science. 

This data is not that surprising though.  Children have not been an issue in this pandemic.  Not to say children havent gotten sick or even died, but the numbers are just so low that it has been and continues to be quite clear that they are not at any serious risk of long term or short term issues.  It is still the elderly and sickly, specifically now the elderly/sickly unvaccinated that are the main issue and it still boggles my mind that if you fall into that catagory and choose not to get a potential life saving vaccine.

They are very good.  Very factual, and they don't seem to have an agenda.  At least it doesn't seem they do given the nature of the information they are sharing.  I just think it's refreshing to have information that isn't scandalous and isn't sensationalist.  They don't seem to be afraid to present that information that doesn't fully support what you might suspect would be the local or political agenda.


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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2474 on: October 13, 2021, 11:16:16 AM »
Looks like America is opening up the border with Mexico and Canada next month?

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2475 on: October 13, 2021, 11:21:21 AM »
Looks like America is opening up the border with Mexico and Canada next month?

NO EXCUSES NOW JINGLE!

To clarify, the air crossings have been "open" for a while - it's the land crossings that have been the rub until now.  Also, no official word yet on whether they are accepting those of us that are vaccinated with mixed-doses (I'm AZ-Pfizer).  If that isn't WHO recognized, I might still be up shit's creek.

And (as El Barto recently found out), "open" still requires a recent negative test result.  Two bills to get that for discretionary purposes.  So, "open" is a relative term.  I just don't have to quarantine if I were to come over.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2476 on: October 13, 2021, 11:22:04 AM »
Looks like America is opening up the border with Mexico and Canada next month?

NO EXCUSES NOW JINGLE!

To clarify, the air crossings have been "open" for a while - it's the land crossings that have been the rub until now.  Also, no official word yet on whether they are accepting those of us that are vaccinated with mixed-doses (I'm AZ-Pfizer).  If that isn't WHO recognized, I might still be up shit's creek.

And (as El Barto recently found out), "open" still requires a recent negative test result.  Two bills to get that for discretionary purposes.  So, "open" is a relative term.  I just don't have to quarantine if I were to come over.

I SAID NO EXCUSES HEF DAMMIT!
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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2477 on: October 13, 2021, 11:26:16 AM »
Looks like America is opening up the border with Mexico and Canada next month?

NO EXCUSES NOW JINGLE!

To clarify, the air crossings have been "open" for a while - it's the land crossings that have been the rub until now.  Also, no official word yet on whether they are accepting those of us that are vaccinated with mixed-doses (I'm AZ-Pfizer).  If that isn't WHO recognized, I might still be up shit's creek.

And (as El Barto recently found out), "open" still requires a recent negative test result.  Two bills to get that for discretionary purposes.  So, "open" is a relative term.  I just don't have to quarantine if I were to come over.

I SAID NO EXCUSES HEF DAMMIT!

Just because you said it doesn't make it so!!  It's not like you're Stadler or something!!

P.S. Luv ya Bill.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2478 on: October 13, 2021, 12:14:45 PM »
Looks like America is opening up the border with Mexico and Canada next month?

NO EXCUSES NOW JINGLE!

To clarify, the air crossings have been "open" for a while - it's the land crossings that have been the rub until now.  Also, no official word yet on whether they are accepting those of us that are vaccinated with mixed-doses (I'm AZ-Pfizer).  If that isn't WHO recognized, I might still be up shit's creek.

And (as El Barto recently found out), "open" still requires a recent negative test result.  Two bills to get that for discretionary purposes.  So, "open" is a relative term.  I just don't have to quarantine if I were to come over.

I SAID NO EXCUSES HEF DAMMIT!
I have been invoked.

I must rule in Adami's favor.  No excuses, most beloved of all Canucks.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2479 on: October 13, 2021, 12:24:40 PM »
Looks like America is opening up the border with Mexico and Canada next month?

NO EXCUSES NOW JINGLE!

To clarify, the air crossings have been "open" for a while - it's the land crossings that have been the rub until now.  Also, no official word yet on whether they are accepting those of us that are vaccinated with mixed-doses (I'm AZ-Pfizer).  If that isn't WHO recognized, I might still be up shit's creek.

And (as El Barto recently found out), "open" still requires a recent negative test result.  Two bills to get that for discretionary purposes.  So, "open" is a relative term.  I just don't have to quarantine if I were to come over.

I SAID NO EXCUSES HEF DAMMIT!

Just because you said it doesn't make it so!!  It's not like you're Stadler or something!!

P.S. Luv ya Bill.

 :metal

Offline bosk1

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2480 on: October 13, 2021, 12:31:16 PM »
hefdaddy42 fact:  hefdaddy42 has been invoked.  There are no excuses.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2481 on: October 14, 2021, 06:59:29 AM »
hefdaddy42 fact:  hefdaddy42 has been invoked.  There are no excuses.
:metal
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

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That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2483 on: October 18, 2021, 06:49:03 AM »
Can't believe he was 84.  I didn't think he was that old.

Offline lonestar

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Re: Coronavirus Thread v.2
« Reply #2484 on: October 18, 2021, 06:50:19 AM »
Just cane to post that. It's frightening to see someone that high profile get taken out with how many treatment options are available to them.