Author Topic: Time Signatures Question  (Read 742 times)

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Offline TM172003

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Time Signatures Question
« on: May 25, 2021, 11:58:49 AM »
This is probably a stupid question, but I thought Iíd ask anyway as itís bugging me.

Iím pretty new to counting time signatures, I never really Ďgot ití but recently Iíve been practicing counting odd times in DT, Haken, Opeth etc. Iím listening to Visions by Haken and when the band comes in at the beginning it sounded like 6 to me, but looking it up itís written as 12/8. The reason it confuses me is not the number of notes, itís when the measures actually end. Because what I counted as two measures of 6/4 was actually 12/8. So I suppose my question is can two measures be ďaddedĒ so that it reads as 12 rather than 6? Listening back I canít wrap my head around it only being one bar of 12, it really sounds like 2 bars of 6 to me. But I am new and so Iím probably miles off. Anyway, a bit of help would be appreciated.

Offline Vmadera00

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2021, 12:35:33 PM »
I am not familiar with that track from Haken, but when it comes to time signatures like that, the main difference is the grouping of notes and how the notes feel. One good example is 4/4 vs 8/8, or 3/4 vs 6/8. Even though you have the same amount of notes, the grouping is different.


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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2021, 05:54:46 AM »
First question Im going to ask is; where did you see it notated as 12/8? I'm asking, because as far as I know, Haken themselves have never released sheet music / tabs / transcriptions / anything for Visions. That means that anything you may have, could potentially be wrong. That said, lets's get into it..

I personally hear the moment the band comes in as 4/4, with triplets in the keyboard melody. (Let's be clear that I'm talking about the part that starts at 1:12 up until 2:03), but I can also see why someone would want to notate this in 12/8 instead. Every twelve keyboard notes (12 eighth notes in 12/8, or 12 eighth note triplets in 4/4) there's a new bar. You can hear the chords in the background change as well. This is (partly) what tells me 6/8 is not right. The drum part further drives this home; tcymbal hit on every beat kind of gives that away, as well as the bass and snare drum alternating the 1 and 3; if you write this in 6/8, every first bar will start with the bass drum hit, while the second will start with the snare.. this shows that's not right. The 'other' 6/8-option would mean you're counting an entire 4/4 bar in 6/8, in which case all the accents will be in the wrong places, so that's not right either.

So yeah, I'd say 4/4 personally, because that's how I feel it, but I would see no fault in notating it in 12/8 instead if you'd want to avoid writing all the triplets in the keyboard (and bass drum part).
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2021, 05:37:01 AM »
Isn't ONE by Metallica in 12/8 ?

Design For Life by Manic Street Preachers is definitely 6/8.

But yeah the difference between 1 bar of 6/8 and 2 bars of 3/4 confuses me too.

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2021, 06:18:56 AM »
One is in 3/4. But also 4/4. But also 2/4. But also 6/4.
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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2021, 10:01:41 AM »
Isn't ONE by Metallica in 12/8 ?

Design For Life by Manic Street Preachers is definitely 6/8.

But yeah the difference between 1 bar of 6/8 and 2 bars of 3/4 confuses me too.

In 6/8 thereís a strong accent on the 1 and a weaker accent on the 4.
3/4 has a strong accent on the 1.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2021, 05:24:33 AM »
One by Metallica is definitely NOT 3/4.

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2021, 12:00:30 PM »
One by Metallica is definitely NOT 3/4.

The verses are in 3/4 with the snare on 3.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2021, 05:52:40 PM »
I can't even make that work in my head. If anything it's in 6/8 but 3/4 ? Nope.

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2021, 11:56:35 AM »
I can't even make that work in my head. If anything it's in 6/8 but 3/4 ? Nope.

https://www.virtualsheetmusic.com/score/HL-350730.html
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2021, 04:11:43 AM »
I've seen "official" sheet music that was hilariously inaccurate. I saw one for Wonderwall that said it was in B minor ffs. You only have to listen to ONE to realise it's not 3/4.

6/4 maybe 6/8 maybe. 3/4 doesn't work at all.

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2021, 11:00:55 AM »
Iíve always felt in in 3/4. If it was 6/8 the snare would land on the 4th beat which it doesnít. It lands on beat 3.
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Offline TM172003

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2021, 12:06:13 PM »
I agree. I counted the chorus as 6/4 but the verse is definitely 3/4.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2021, 04:12:16 AM »
I've always felt the verses as being in 12.

Offline pg1067

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2021, 01:15:36 PM »
The difference between 3/4 and 6/4 is virtually non-existent.  That's like saying something makes sense in 8/4 but that "4/4 doesn't work at all."

The intro to One is in 4/4.  The verses are 3/4 with occasional 2/4 measures.  The chorus and interlude are in 6/4 (or you could stick with 3/4).  The heavy section is all in 4/4.  Check it out on Songsterr.com and you'll see how it makes sense.
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Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2021, 03:14:56 PM »
The difference between 3/4 and 6/4 is virtually non-existent.  That's like saying something makes sense in 8/4 but that "4/4 doesn't work at all."

The intro to One is in 4/4.  The verses are 3/4 with occasional 2/4 measures.  The chorus and interlude are in 6/4 (or you could stick with 3/4).  The heavy section is all in 4/4.  Check it out on Songsterr.com and you'll see how it makes sense.

3/4 and 6/4 are definitely different. 3/4 has one strong beat followed by two weak beats (ONE two three) while 6/4 is like 4/4 with an extra two beats at the end (ONE two three four five six).
« Last Edit: June 02, 2021, 03:20:05 PM by TheCountOfNYC »
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Offline Kilgore Trout

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2021, 04:36:16 AM »
3/4 and 6/4 are definitely different. 3/4 has one strong beat followed by two weak beats (ONE two three) while 6/4 is like 4/4 with an extra two beats at the end (ONE two three four five six).
6/4 is traditionaly compound time, so it's two groups of three. It's 6/8 with a different pulse.
4/4+2/4 should be 3/2. But yeah, you'll often find it written as 6/4.

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2021, 08:16:29 AM »
3/4 and 6/4 are definitely different. 3/4 has one strong beat followed by two weak beats (ONE two three) while 6/4 is like 4/4 with an extra two beats at the end (ONE two three four five six).
6/4 is traditionaly compound time, so it's two groups of three. It's 6/8 with a different pulse.
4/4+2/4 should be 3/2. But yeah, you'll often find it written as 6/4.

4 and 8 being on the bottom are more common. 2, 16, and 32 are far less common. Iíve been reading music for the better part of 15 years and I have never gotten a piece of sheet music with a 2 on the bottom. 6/4 is felt in duple feel to offer a time signature with 12 eight notes that feels different than 12/8. Traditionally speaking, a 4 on the bottom signifies a duple feel/simple meter while an 8 on the bottom signifies triplet feel/compound meter. Obviously this isnít taking complex meters that canít be subdivided evenly like 5 and 7 into the equation, but the numbers on the bottom do more than signify what note gets the subdivision: they also dictate the feel.
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Offline Kilgore Trout

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2021, 01:30:36 AM »
4 and 8 being on the bottom are more common. 2, 16, and 32 are far less common. Iíve been reading music for the better part of 15 years and I have never gotten a piece of sheet music with a 2 on the bottom.
They aren't rare in classical music. The "C" with a bar, which is 2/2, is quite common. For other types of x/2, the first example that comes to my mind is the last movement of Seven star symphony by Charles Koechlin, which has a whole section alternating 4/2, 3/2 and 5/2. This is actually a good example of the difference between 3/2 and 6/4 (and an example of expert writing) :


6/4 is felt in duple feel to offer a time signature with 12 eight notes that feels different than 12/8. Traditionally speaking, a 4 on the bottom signifies a duple feel/simple meter while an 8 on the bottom signifies triplet feel/compound meter.
It's an usual practice in popular music, but it's not in classical music (and time signature writing comes from classical music), and it's "wrong" from a theoritical point of view. It makes sense : the compound meter equivalent of 4/4 should be 6/4, not 6/8.
That being said, as long as musicians understand each other, it's fine, and you'll find duple time written in 6/4 in classical music too.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 02:40:36 AM by Kilgore Trout »

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2021, 04:23:59 AM »
6/4 = ONE two three four five six.    Six Quarter notes per bar

6/8 = ONE two three FOUR five six.  Six Eighth notes per bar.


3/4 = ONE two three ONE two three. Three quarter notes per bar.

When I think of Metallica and 3/4 I think of the chorus of The House That Jack Built. " The HIGHER you are the FURTHER you fall. LONGER the walk....."

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2021, 04:51:30 AM »
6/4 should also be ONE two three FOUR five six

but, like in 6/8, the 4th beat is slightly less accentuated than the first beat.
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Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2021, 06:44:00 AM »
6/4 should also be ONE two three FOUR five six

but, like in 6/8, the 4th beat is slightly less accentuated than the first beat.

That is NOT how 6/4 is meant to be felt. Itís ONE two THREE four FIVE six. Iím a bass player, a drummer, and a drum teacher. My entire professional life is spent in the rhythm section. If you were gonna feel two sets of three, keeping it in 3/4 and splitting the phrase between the two measures will get the point across better from a sheet music perspective. As I said above, a 4 on the bottom indicates duple feel, meaning the subdivisions are divided into groups of two, while an 8 on the bottom indicates triplet feel, meaning the subdivisions are divided into groups of three. Obviously there are exceptions, but 6/4 is a duple feel, meaning itís three groups of two, not two groups of three.
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Offline Vmadera00

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2021, 07:27:51 AM »
Not trying to ruin the party, but you are both right.

6/4 could be a simple or compound meter, meaning that it could be divided in 3 groups or 2, or 2 groups of 3. It all depends on the piece itself.

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2021, 07:47:40 AM »
Not trying to ruin the party, but you are both right.

6/4 could be a simple or compound meter, meaning that it could be divided in 3 groups or 2, or 2 groups of 3. It all depends on the piece itself.

As I said, there are exceptions, but 6/4 is usually a simple meter. I know itís not a big deal, but Iíve more or less devoted my entire life to the art of rhythm and seeing people argue with me when I know for a fact that Iím right really irks me. Of course there are instances where 6/4 is felt in groups of three (like how 4/4 can be divided into 3,3,2 but we would never call that the primary subdivision of the time signature), but thatís an example of bending the rules, not the rule itself. As a teacher, it is my job to teach the rules of common practice, and focusing on the exceptions before the rules themselves are learned confuses the lesson. You have to know the rules before you can bend and break them.
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Offline Kilgore Trout

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2021, 12:28:35 PM »
As I said, there are exceptions, but 6/4 is usually a simple meter. I know itís not a big deal, but Iíve more or less devoted my entire life to the art of rhythm and seeing people argue with me when I know for a fact that Iím right really irks me. Of course there are instances where 6/4 is felt in groups of three (like how 4/4 can be divided into 3,3,2 but we would never call that the primary subdivision of the time signature), but thatís an example of bending the rules, not the rule itself. As a teacher, it is my job to teach the rules of common practice, and focusing on the exceptions before the rules themselves are learned confuses the lesson. You have to know the rules before you can bend and break them.
I'm not sure I should answer this as you seem so sure of yourself. But I guess I will...
You're talking about popular music. The theoritical framework of popular music is full of mistakes, and it's not written music (for most of it anyway). In classical music (which is the basis for time signature writing, even if pratices have evolved over time, and is written music), 6/4 is a compound time signature. It is the rule. It's the 6/4 in simple meter that is a bending of the rule. In the same way, the number at the bottom of the time signature doesn't designate the feel. It might give this impression in popular music pratice, but it's actually untrue.

If I really need to prove this, here is Brahm's first violin sonata:


Here are the bassons at the beginning of Holst's Uranus, from The Planets (it's in 6/4) :


Here is Scriabin prelude op.11 nį 4 (fun fact, op.11 nį 1 is written in 2/2) :


These are not exceptions, but applications of the rule. You mentioned the "rules of common practice": the music of these composers is the one these rules originated from (I also found examples in Bach, Chopin, etc.).
6/4 is a compound time signature, unless you think Scriabin, Brahms and Holst, were wrong and didn't know what they were doing.
Actually, if you want to be pedantic, 6/4 is a compound duple time signature, because it's two groups of three (9/8 is a compound triple time signature, 2/4 a simple duple time signature, 4/4 a simple quadruple time signature, etc.).

Another example I like is the first movement of Prokofiev's second symphony is written mostly in 3/2, but it switches to 6/4 at several points. A good example :

This is good time signature writing. Also note how Prokofiev wrote 4/4 in the last measure, and not 2/2 like elsewhere in the score.

I'm completely fine with 6/4 considered as a simple triple time signature, but it's a wrong practice that have become an habit in popular music, and should not be considered as the "true" rule. It's not, both from a historical point of view and a theoritical one.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 12:34:05 PM by Kilgore Trout »

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2021, 12:41:05 PM »
Yeah, you nailed it, with excellent examples as well.

That said, Iím quite sure if you look hard enough youíll find examples of 6/4 being divided in 3 groups of 2, but to be Ďtheoretically correctí, that should be a 3/2 instead. The bottom number doesnít dictate pulse, the top one does. One of the standard works on music theory in my own language reads (translated and paraphrased); ďin a six-beat measure, accents and secondary accents happen every three beats. This rule is founded on general agreement and has no deeper background*. The six-beat measure therefore has a beat on one and four. A six-beat measure with accents on one, three and five is then written in a three-beat measure. This rule is easy to abide by, because the notation will not be much different.Ē


*(I actually do not agree here, because I believe, as I stated above as well, that the Ďruleí is that a 6-beat measure should be divided in 2x 3, because itís in essence a compound time signature and thatís the only reason/way it would differ from a 3-beat measure, Ďfounded on agreementí or not).
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Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2021, 02:47:04 PM »
Most of the examples of 6/4 Iíve seen have been simple meter. Even something like Nothing Else Matters, which has a slow triplet feel, is notated as a slow 6/8 rather than a medium tempo 6/4. This is literally the first time Iíve heard people say 6/4 as a compound meter is the standard, and that includes the theater scene I worked in before the pandemic with my music director best friend. 6/4 in classical music was extremely rare, and it has become more common now, so to pull examples from a time period where the time signature wasnít even common and calling it common practice isÖI donít know how to describe it. And to invalidate modern music is to ignore the evolution of music. Letís not forget that tritones were avoided in the ďcommon practiceĒ period because they were difficult to sing (NOT because people thought they were evil) but then jazz and blues came along and emphasized dominant 7th chords, of which the signature sound is the tritone between the 3rd and 7th. As society evolves, art and the way we interpret it evolves. Weíre both right, but Iím approaching music from a modern standpoint because Iím teaching music in the 21st century, and none of my students want to learn Brahms (unfortunately). They want to learn pop and rock, where the backbeat is king, and every song thatís come up in triplet feel has either been written in 6/8 or 12/8 (Iím not even touching 9/8 right now or this thread may explode). Letís also not forget that I myself am a progressive rock musician who plays in a Top 40 band, so my approach to music couldnít be further from the ďcommon practiceĒ. My application of music theory is to help me when I get stuck, whether that be writing my own music or building cohesive sets in my top 40 cover band. I know my theory, but I rarely have to use it, and rhythmic theory is far more arbitrary than harmonic theory.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2021, 08:00:27 AM »
Most of the examples of 6/4 Iíve seen have been simple meter. Even something like Nothing Else Matters, which has a slow triplet feel, is notated as a slow 6/8 rather than a medium tempo 6/4. This is literally the first time Iíve heard people say 6/4 as a compound meter is the standard, and that includes the theater scene I worked in before the pandemic with my music director best friend. 6/4 in classical music was extremely rare, and it has become more common now, so to pull examples from a time period where the time signature wasnít even common and calling it common practice isÖI donít know how to describe it. And to invalidate modern music is to ignore the evolution of music. Letís not forget that tritones were avoided in the ďcommon practiceĒ period because they were difficult to sing (NOT because people thought they were evil) but then jazz and blues came along and emphasized dominant 7th chords, of which the signature sound is the tritone between the 3rd and 7th. As society evolves, art and the way we interpret it evolves. Weíre both right, but Iím approaching music from a modern standpoint because Iím teaching music in the 21st century, and none of my students want to learn Brahms (unfortunately). They want to learn pop and rock, where the backbeat is king, and every song thatís come up in triplet feel has either been written in 6/8 or 12/8 (Iím not even touching 9/8 right now or this thread may explode). Letís also not forget that I myself am a progressive rock musician who plays in a Top 40 band, so my approach to music couldnít be further from the ďcommon practiceĒ. My application of music theory is to help me when I get stuck, whether that be writing my own music or building cohesive sets in my top 40 cover band. I know my theory, but I rarely have to use it, and rhythmic theory is far more arbitrary than harmonic theory.

But of course we know better, and it is.  :)

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2021, 02:15:06 AM »
The first time I encountered Irrational time signatures my brain stopped working for a bit, it's still can be so confusing.
Dividing and feeling time in music can be really interesting.
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Offline Kilgore Trout

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2021, 08:47:59 AM »
I just want to answer on one point (for the rest, to each is own, etc.).

And to invalidate modern music is to ignore the evolution of music. Letís not forget that tritones were avoided in the ďcommon practiceĒ period because they were difficult to sing (NOT because people thought they were evil) but then jazz and blues came along and emphasized dominant 7th chords, of which the signature sound is the tritone between the 3rd and 7th.

I don't know where you learned that, but it is completely false. Dominant 7th chords have been largely used since the 17th century, and tritones, especially through diminished chords, were essential to the harmonic langage of many 19th century composers including Liszt and Wagner. Moreover, when jazz emerged, classical music had already established atonality, polytonality, quartal and quintal harmony, 11th and 13th chords... It was way pass dominant 7th chords and tritones.

It's not about "invalidating modern music". "Modern music" is not equivalent to "popular music". The popular music framework, useful in a specific context, doesn't work if you want to understand and analyse more complex music. The "art music" framework is as modern as the popular music one, continues to evolve, and is more accurate, although the specifications of popular music shoud be taken into account.

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2021, 01:59:47 PM »
I just want to answer on one point (for the rest, to each is own, etc.).

And to invalidate modern music is to ignore the evolution of music. Letís not forget that tritones were avoided in the ďcommon practiceĒ period because they were difficult to sing (NOT because people thought they were evil) but then jazz and blues came along and emphasized dominant 7th chords, of which the signature sound is the tritone between the 3rd and 7th.

I don't know where you learned that, but it is completely false. Dominant 7th chords have been largely used since the 17th century, and tritones, especially through diminished chords, were essential to the harmonic langage of many 19th century composers including Liszt and Wagner. Moreover, when jazz emerged, classical music had already established atonality, polytonality, quartal and quintal harmony, 11th and 13th chords... It was way pass dominant 7th chords and tritones.

I was more generalizing (obviously the V7-I resolution has been a major part of music for centuries), but during the time where music was mostly used for worship and was mostly a cappella, tritones were rarely used due to them being difficult to sing without accompaniment (as is the case with most dissonant intervals but since the tritone is right in the middle of the perfect fourth and perfect fifth; the two most stable intervals besides the octave; and a lot of chamber music was centered around those two consonant intervals). Thereís a lot more nuance to the evolution of music than I touched on, but my point still stands about things that used to be uncommon are now common and visa versa.

And going back to my point about rhythmic theory being more ambiguous but also simultaneously talking about something a little off topic, Iíve been watching a lot of YouTube videos talking about the rhythmic tendencies of other cultures, and one of the most interesting things is the rhythmic feel of Balkin dances. A lot of Balkin music is folk music, and itís meant to be danced to, but Balkin dances are a bit different than more Western European styles, and the music aligns with that. I forgot what itís called, but one dance is is 9/8, but instead of feeling it as three groups of three or 4/4 with an extra emphasized eight note at the end, they feel it as ďquick, quick, quick, slowĒ which translates in common notation as 2, 2, 2, 3. Itís so different than what most people who are used to Western European traditions would feel, but it makes sense when you watch people from these countries dance and play. I love learning about musical traditions from other areas of the world and seeing how they differ from western music theory while also experimenting and seeing how they fit in with what most of us are used to.
People figured out that the white thing that comes out of cows' titties could be drunk, and the relation between sweet desires and women's bellies growing up for 9 months. It can't be THAT hard to figure out how a trumpet works.Ē

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Offline Kilgore Trout

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2021, 03:06:19 AM »
I was more generalizing (obviously the V7-I resolution has been a major part of music for centuries), but during the time where music was mostly used for worship and was mostly a cappella, tritones were rarely used due to them being difficult to sing without accompaniment (as is the case with most dissonant intervals but since the tritone is right in the middle of the perfect fourth and perfect fifth; the two most stable intervals besides the octave; and a lot of chamber music was centered around those two consonant intervals). Thereís a lot more nuance to the evolution of music than I touched on, but my point still stands about things that used to be uncommon are now common and visa versa.

But... music hasn't been mostly used for worship and a cappela since the beginning of the 16th century, 400 years before the emergence of blues and jazz. The use of dominant 7th chords has nothing to do with blues and jazz. You're talking about a period that was before the common pratice era. Modern popular music is a direct descendant of common pratice, from both a theoritical and historical point of view. When it comes to harmony, there is a pretty much nothing in modern popular music that wasn't common in classical music.

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2021, 09:41:53 AM »
I was more generalizing (obviously the V7-I resolution has been a major part of music for centuries), but during the time where music was mostly used for worship and was mostly a cappella, tritones were rarely used due to them being difficult to sing without accompaniment (as is the case with most dissonant intervals but since the tritone is right in the middle of the perfect fourth and perfect fifth; the two most stable intervals besides the octave; and a lot of chamber music was centered around those two consonant intervals). Thereís a lot more nuance to the evolution of music than I touched on, but my point still stands about things that used to be uncommon are now common and visa versa.

But... music hasn't been mostly used for worship and a cappela since the beginning of the 16th century, 400 years before the emergence of blues and jazz. The use of dominant 7th chords has nothing to do with blues and jazz. You're talking about a period that was before the common pratice era. Modern popular music is a direct descendant of common pratice, from both a theoritical and historical point of view. When it comes to harmony, there is a pretty much nothing in modern popular music that wasn't common in classical music.

I didnít say jazz and blues were the first to do it. I was giving an example of more modern forms of music to highlight how music changed.
People figured out that the white thing that comes out of cows' titties could be drunk, and the relation between sweet desires and women's bellies growing up for 9 months. It can't be THAT hard to figure out how a trumpet works.Ē

-MirrorMask

Offline Kilgore Trout

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2021, 12:13:52 AM »
I didnít say jazz and blues were the first to do it. I was giving an example of more modern forms of music to highlight how music changed.
I still don't see what has changed when it comes to dominant 7th chords. Anyway...

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Time Signatures Question
« Reply #34 on: June 21, 2021, 02:47:51 AM »
Anyone watch Rick Beato on the Youtubes ?

I find when he tries to explain a theory idea - he somehow makes it MORE confusing. I think he tries to over explain and cram in as many ideas into one concept.

I did a Music Degree for 3 years and there are much simpler ways to explain concepts. Like Modes for arguments sake.

The C major scale has 7 scales within it. The Notes are C D E F G A B C.

D Dorian is C major but starting and ending on D. And so on.

But Rick has this way of making it really over complicated.

I have watched a lot of his vids and I think he likes to flex with how much theory he knows etc.


A little bit like when I used to watch Rob Chapman vids and every video - he'd have as much of his gear in shot as he could. Like - look how much stuff I have.