Time Signatures Question

[Elite]

The thing with a lot of music theory is that theory alone means nothing if you have no idea how to apply it. While technically correct that D dorian is C major starting on D, that's an oversimplification of what D dorian actually is; a scale with its own sound that can be used in specific instances.

Granted, I haven't really watched a lot of Rick Beato's videos, mostly because I'm not interested in hearing stuff explained I already know, but the ones I have seen show someone who's at least really passionate about what he's doing, even though I thought he explained a certain concept a little clumsily if I may say so.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Sidenote but I just saw a video about Jacob Collier talking about Shepards Tone which basically is an audio illusion of a tone getting constantly higher in pitch. He then speaks about how he created the same kind of thing but with a groove. I understand the concept behind it and how it works but i've never really heard it in a context like he demonstrated.

Oh it's actually called Shepard-Risset glissando.

https://youtu.be/QhwarirTaUE

[TheCountOfNYC]

Theory should only come out when you get stuck. Victor Wooten had the best analogy. He said that theory is a set of tools. You leave your toolbox in the trunk, and you don’t use them to drive your car, but if your car breaks down, you’re happy you have the tools to fix it.

[Orbert]

Rick Beato's videos annoy the hell out of me.  My brother-in-law Dave keeps sending me links to them, and I honestly don't know why.  I'm not impressed by how much music theory he thinks he knows, because I know a little bit myself and nothing he says goes beyond the basics.  But he seems really intent on impressing people with how well he's analyzed the songs by applying music theory to it.  I believe the series is "What Makes This Song Great?" but it should be titled "What Makes Me Sound Smart (in my own mind)?"

I told Dave that I don't even know how to respond without sounding like an asshole.  Beato points out really elementary stuff, stuff I remember noticing when I was in junior high, before I'd even learned any theory, but makes it sound like some kind of amazing revelation.  It's like going into a building and raving about how the walls are all perpendicular to the floor, and how fucking amazing it is that the doors are hung properly.  No, that's some really basic shit.  Sorry, not impressed.

[Cool Chris]

It's like going into a building and raving about how the walls are all perpendicular to the floor, and how fucking amazing it is that the doors are hung properly.  No, that's some really basic shit.  Sorry, not impressed.

As someone who works in the industry that involves hanging drywall and installing doors, this made me laugh really hard.

[Orbert]

I'm glad you took it in the right way. I meant no disrespect to people who work in the industry; I'm sure you have your challenges, like any other biz.

[Cool Chris]

It is a treat to have a client gush over some work we did that was rather rudimentary compared to what we are often able to do.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Interesting you thought of him like that because I also know music theory but never took his videos for anything other than well educating music theory.
The basics ARE the important stuff and he gets new viewers all the time so i'm not sure why someone would feel like he's bragging.
I love his series WMTSG, he points out so many nuggets I atleast never knew. The Boston episode is great: https://youtu.be/mrJ0xnXv_IQ
His interviews are really great too. I really enjoyed the one with Vinnie: https://youtu.be/oRH1G6ZpuL0

[Stadler]

Rick Beato's videos annoy the hell out of me.  My brother-in-law Dave keeps sending me links to them, and I honestly don't know why.  I'm not impressed by how much music theory he thinks he knows, because I know a little bit myself and nothing he says goes beyond the basics.  But he seems really intent on impressing people with how well he's analyzed the songs by applying music theory to it.  I believe the series is "What Makes This Song Great?" but it should be titled "What Makes Me Sound Smart (in my own mind)?"

I told Dave that I don't even know how to respond without sounding like an asshole.  Beato points out really elementary stuff, stuff I remember noticing when I was in junior high, before I'd even learned any theory, but makes it sound like some kind of amazing revelation.  It's like going into a building and raving about how the walls are all perpendicular to the floor, and how fucking amazing it is that the doors are hung properly.  No, that's some really basic shit.  Sorry, not impressed.

I get that point of view, and I understand it, but I think it's only one way of looking at it.  It may not be intellectual music theory depth, but in terms of MY UNDERSTANDING of the song itself, I like the added depth he brings to a lot of things.  I like hearing the separated parts.  I like how he sort of "explodes" the songs to see how all the parts work together.  Until Beato's vids, I never realized there's no real chorus in "Don't Stop Believin'".   I always thought Running With The Devil was the simplest Van Halen song (it's about the only one I can play, for example) and I always had the sort of idea that Ed was a savant of sorts, but it's fun to me to hear how what I thought was just a from-the-gut song is actually pretty well crafted (and if memory serves, I learned that there WAS rhythm guitar on that track, at least behind the solo part).   

I know enough theory to be dangerous, but I struggle with applying it. I know what time signature are, and what keys are, but I can't listen to a song and tell you "that's in 3/4" or "that's in the key of D".   If I'm playing and someone says "Blues in C", the best I can do at that point is play a C chord (I know, I know, that's the point).    So to find out that songs that I always thought were done by people who claim to have no clue about how music works actually DO work is neato.  Rhymes with Beato.   

[Elite]

Interesting you thought of him like that because I also know music theory but never took his videos for anything other than well educating music theory.
The basics ARE the important stuff and he gets new viewers all the time so i'm not sure why someone would feel like he's bragging.

Well, that's the thing; in the videos of his I have seen (which, again, aren't a lot) I personally didn't think he was explaining things clearly at all. I find it rather annoying when someone clouds music theory in some pseudo-mystic bullshit as if it's something ridiculously difficult only to be understood by the few. I get this sentiment a lot from people that do know stuff about music theory and Beato kind-of gave me a similar vibe. It;s the same thing in these random music theory Facebook groups I'm in; there's A LOT of disinformation, basically people blatantly stating nonsense as if it were truth (I bet most don't even know (why) they're wrong) and also a lot of snobbish people who claim to have all the knowledge (and then still get things wrong every now and then).

That said, I also believe music theory is not the be-all-end-all either, and I'm saying this despite teaching music literally being my job. I don't really agree on the toolkit analogy made above, but I do think you'll need a good understanding of music theory in order to comprehend what you're doing and also (maybe even more important) what the people around you are doing. Especially when playing together weith other musicians it's hugely important to know what's happening around you. Then to debunk some stuff to make things even more complicated; it's a myth that knowing all music theory will instantly make you a better musician (it won't) or that playing stuff without knowing what you're doing somehow make it more 'pure' (that's nonsense).

[Lonk]

I used to watch analysis videos before, I thought they were entertaining. But there are 2 people who took the joy out of them for me so I kind of stopped. Those 2 people are "Music Is Win" (Tyler) and "Become the Knight" (Mike). They both come off as knowledgeable people, but kind of annoying at the same time. Though I remember enjoying this video, mainly because it's a song that I never looked into the harmony in it.

https://youtu.be/wjkdGwHe5qg?t=36

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Interesting you thought of him like that because I also know music theory but never took his videos for anything other than well educating music theory.
The basics ARE the important stuff and he gets new viewers all the time so i'm not sure why someone would feel like he's bragging.

Well, that's the thing; in the videos of his I have seen (which, again, aren't a lot) I personally didn't think he was explaining things clearly at all. I find it rather annoying when someone clouds music theory in some pseudo-mystic bullshit as if it's something ridiculously difficult only to be understood by the few. I get this sentiment a lot from people that do know stuff about music theory and Beato kind-of gave me a similar vibe.

I can't speak for Rick but i'm pretty sure he didn't mean to sound like that and it's unfourtunate that you feel that. Just to be clear i'm not defending Rick because I to haven't seen every video so if there's a particular video or videos that's representational for the topic I might hear that to.

Here's one video:
Basics of Music Theory: Part I

How you present music theory is of course very important and that can be done in very diffrent ways depending on what target audience you have. On YT you have a demographic on pretty much any age so that's a bit tricky to reach all.

It's not like you exactly can say that music theory is easy or hard, that would be a lie because there's levels to it and also we all individually grasp certain concepts at diffrent rate. I'm a slow learner myself and has always been. I usually need to hear certain concepts many times in order to fully grasp it even if it's deemed easy by some.

I don't hang around in groups like that so I wouldn't know but I think that there's usually humbleness with actual great knowledge.

[TM172003]

"Become the Knight" (Mike). They both come off as knowledgeable people, but kind of annoying at the same time.

You’re kind of asking for it when you watch someone called “Mike the Music Snob”.

I really like Mike’s channel, and Tyler’s isn’t bad either but I definitely understand why people cringe at him sometimes.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Adam Neely is my favorite music theory YouTube. He’s a bassist which helps as he thinks on my level, but he’s also coming from a place of gigging, whether it be with his original band Sungazer, with a wedding band, around the world as an ambassador for American music, or the random odds and ends projects that the typical New York City musician takes. He doesn’t talk down to people, which comes from his vast experience playing out, and instead aims to educate in a fun way.

[Orbert]

He sounds like my kind of guy.  I'd like to say I'll check him out sometime, but I know I probably won't, and I cannot tell a lie.

educate in a fun way.

This is key.  YouTube videos can be for entertainment, education, amusement, literally to waste time, all of the above, or none.

I've only seen a couple of hours of total Rick Beato video total, but during that time he's pointed out at most two or three things I hadn't noticed before.  Most of the time he's pointing out stuff I consider really obvious.  Sometimes he actually analyzes things using some degree of music theory, which I guess can be educational for some, but he doesn't have anything to offer me in that department.  So I guess it comes down to whether or not he's entertaining enough to keep watching, and the answer there is No.  That doesn't leave much future for Rick and me.  I'm sure he's crying about that.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Both Adam Neely and Charles Cornell are great resources if you just can't stand Rick. 

[Elite]

I think Adam Neely is great, but mostly for his in-depth videos. I've watched every single Adam Neely youtube video and his presentation style and the subjects he picks are right up my alley. He doesn't do 'beginner' music theory though, so without a basic background some of his stuff could be hard to follow, although I do think he tries to explain everything quite thoroughly.

Another one I enjoy 'watching' (listening to) is 12tone. Those videos are basically someone talking over a video of drawings, but it's way better than this makes it sound. Very in-depth on the music theory side, but also conscious of its limitations.

[Skeever]

Count me among those who don't like Beato. And here are the reasons why:

• He doesn't explain theoretical concepts clearly, he just states the ones he hears happening.
• His book is overpriced and helpful only as a reference book, even then it seems like a poorly organized assembly of materials you could get anywhere else
• His ear training app is a very expensive and basic, there are tons of apps out there that are exactly the same and free/low cost.
• His opinions are pretty trite a lot of times and nothing more illuminating than the stuff you could hear on a slow day at Guitar Center (in the last video I listened to, he said something like "A fast solo is good if it still sounds good slowed down". lol. What nonsense.

That's not to say he's a total hack. He obviously has some talent, and has had some success in an industry that is probably impenetrable for for 99.9999% of his audience. But he's no luminary, not by a long shot, and too many people these days take the slick YouTube productions they see way too seriously and confuse what they get out of them with real knowledge.

I think it's funny that he has his own signature Gibson guitar, too. My friends and I were joking about what special features it had, and one person mentioned that maybe it had a speaker on the back of the headstock that will shout the name of whatever chord you are currently playing.

[Stadler]

Count me among those who don't like Beato. And here are the reasons why:

• He doesn't explain theoretical concepts clearly, he just states the ones he hears happening.
• His book is overpriced and helpful only as a reference book, even then it seems like a poorly organized assembly of materials you could get anywhere else
• His ear training app is a very expensive and basic, there are tons of apps out there that are exactly the same and free/low cost.
• His opinions are pretty trite a lot of times and nothing more illuminating than the stuff you could hear on a slow day at Guitar Center (in the last video I listened to, he said something like "A fast solo is good if it still sounds good slowed down". lol. What nonsense.

That's not to say he's a total hack. He obviously has some talent, and has had some success in an industry that is probably impenetrable for for 99.9999% of his audience. But he's no luminary, not by a long shot, and too many people these days take the slick YouTube productions they see way too seriously and confuse what they get out of them with real knowledge.

I think it's funny that he has his own signature Gibson guitar, too. My friends and I were joking about what special features it had, and one person mentioned that maybe it had a speaker on the back of the headstock that will shout the name of whatever chord you are currently playing.

I would have said "it promotes itself while playing" (or, the alternative, "it bitches about the artists that won't let you play their songs"). 

[Kilgore Trout]

Rick Beato's videos annoy the hell out of me.  My brother-in-law Dave keeps sending me links to them, and I honestly don't know why.  I'm not impressed by how much music theory he thinks he knows, because I know a little bit myself and nothing he says goes beyond the basics.  But he seems really intent on impressing people with how well he's analyzed the songs by applying music theory to it.  I believe the series is "What Makes This Song Great?" but it should be titled "What Makes Me Sound Smart (in my own mind)?"

He's a youtuber. His goal is not to analyse songs or to impress others, but to give the impression to people who love generic rock music but don't know anything about music theory that the music they like is complex, superior, great, etc. His videos are basically an enhanced version of "reaction videos", which only have a mastubatory value for the viewers ("look, these guys on youtube love what I love, I must have such perfect tastes!").

Note that by "generic rock music", I don't mean that the music is bad, only that it's stuff that is accessible and that everybody likes.

I think Adam Neely is great, but mostly for his in-depth videos. I've watched every single Adam Neely youtube video and his presentation style and the subjects he picks are right up my alley. He doesn't do 'beginner' music theory though, so without a basic background some of his stuff could be hard to follow, although I do think he tries to explain everything quite thoroughly.

Too bad he jumped the shark with his "music theory is white suprematism" video, which was poorly argumented and generaly wrong.

[Elite]

I think Adam Neely is great, but mostly for his in-depth videos. I've watched every single Adam Neely youtube video and his presentation style and the subjects he picks are right up my alley. He doesn't do 'beginner' music theory though, so without a basic background some of his stuff could be hard to follow, although I do think he tries to explain everything quite thoroughly.

Too bad he jumped the shark with his "music theory is white suprematism" video, which was poorly argumented and generaly wrong.

I don't know why you'd consider that 'jumping the shark', although of course you're entitled to your opinion. I'll have to watch it again to see whether or not it was poorly argumented, but I don't remember thinking that myself, especially since the points he made were also brought up in my own education (Musicology). The music theory we think is universal (spoiler; it's not) is firmly rooted in German nationalism and is clearly Europe-centric. There's a lot of evidence for that. Of course the click-bait-ish title - which was later removed - called for attention, but like a lot of stuff Adam Neely does, I for one thought it was good this particular (and dare I say 'uncomfortable'?) topic was brought to a wider audience.

Lastly, from your post I'm getting the impression that because of this video you don't watch Adam Neely vids (anymore), and to be honest if that's the case then that's more on you than on the guy that continues to drop quality content regularly.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Another one I enjoy 'watching' (listening to) is 12tone. Those videos are basically someone talking over a video of drawings, but it's way better than this makes it sound. Very in-depth on the music theory side, but also conscious of its limitations.

12Tone is great! Unlike Rick, he actually explains the theory behind popular songs properly, and in other videos he touches on some pretty obscure and out there theory concepts. The content guys like he and Adam make is incredibly interesting to someone like me who loves learning for the sake of learning.

[Kilgore Trout]

I don't know why you'd consider that 'jumping the shark', although of course you're entitled to your opinion. I'll have to watch it again to see whether or not it was poorly argumented, but I don't remember thinking that myself, especially since the points he made were also brought up in my own education (Musicology). The music theory we think is universal (spoiler; it's not) is firmly rooted in German nationalism and is clearly Europe-centric.

That wasn't the argument of Neely - and moreover of Ewell (who has an agenda, and does not act in good faith). Saying music theory is Europe-centric is different from saying it's rooted in German nationalism and white suprematism. They acted like music theory hasn't evolved since the 19th century, and that it's teached everywhere in the same way, on the basis of the example of a small department in a Texas University that teaches Schenkerian theory. You say yourself that you've had a different education. I had too. Everything Neely was calling for is already teached in a lot of music departements all over the world. The video was a loosy provocation and a loosy attempt to fit in recent trends. It was ill intended and based on strawman arguments, and doesn't open any perspectives.

Lastly, from your post I'm getting the impression that because of this video you don't watch Adam Neely vids (anymore), and to be honest if that's the case then that's more on you than on the guy that continues to drop quality content regularly.

No, I don't watch his videos anymore, but that video was only the nail on the coffin. I thought that his videos had been lackluster for some time, and that his presentation and his choice of subjects were changing for the worse. I don't like his persona. I did watch one of his recent videos a few weeks ago, and I found it uninteresting. Lots of quirky comments and good production value, with actually little to say. Others have every right to be interested in the content he produces.

[Skeever]

Another one I enjoy 'watching' (listening to) is 12tone. Those videos are basically someone talking over a video of drawings, but it's way better than this makes it sound. Very in-depth on the music theory side, but also conscious of its limitations.

12Tone is great! Unlike Rick, he actually explains the theory behind popular songs properly, and in other videos he touches on some pretty obscure and out there theory concepts. The content guys like he and Adam make is incredibly interesting to someone like me who loves learning for the sake of learning.

Yeah 12tone is great. The style sometimes is distracting to me, but the content is usually top notch for Youtube.