Serious UFO/UAP Discussion

[emtee]

In the last few months I've read numerous articles regarding the Pentagon and military's confirmation of authentic, verified videos. And supposedly, within a month, a report on this subject is going to be released.

From a scientific standpoint, I'm truly fascinated by what these UAP's might be. The descriptions given--13K mph, ability to enter water, change directions in a split second, no known propulsion system, plus more oddities--are really thought provoking.

Maybe It's hogwash. Maybe not. I have no clue. With the recent admissions though, I've become more interested.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ufo-military-intelligence-60-minutes-2021-05-14/

This is the most recent article.

Just curious what others think about this? Potential huge story or nothingburger?

[hunnus2000]

I too am interested. I always have been interested in UFO's  now called UAP's but I came to the point that these (UAP's) are secret military craft. The fear at the top of our government is that some other country has this technology and we don't. That's the whole reason why DARPA was created.

Look up a journalist called Annie Jacobsen. She's written a few books on this subject and although I have not read any of her books,  I have listened to podcasts and her lectures. Simply incredible.

[gmillerdrake]

I think it’s probably as simple as this is just like when we were developing the stealth technology back in the day and people were seeing it and reporting UFOs.

This is probably too secret tech that in 30 years we will learn that we were developing. I think if this were truly extra terrestrial or something like that we’d know because I highly doubt those beings or whatever would be so considerate of the frail nature of our beliefs and stay hidden. I think they’d just come right out with announcing “we’re here”

[Phoenix87x]

As far as I'm concerned, there's forms of life all over not only this galaxy, but all over this universe, so lifeforms surveying a planet utilizing technology that we don't yet understand doesn't really blow my mind.

I'm more interested in alternate dimensions, parallel universes and higher planes of reality, but anyway yeah, maybe someday who ever is piloting these vessels will actually introduce themselves, but until then there's not much that I have to say about it.

[MirrorMask]

I think it’s probably as simple as this is just like when we were developing the stealth technology back in the day and people were seeing it and reporting UFOs.

This is what I always thought, let's remember that the simplest explanation is often true.

After WWII technology starts to grow exponentially. Also sightings of UFOs begin. And we know that in the middle of the desert there's a secret base where they test a lot of this stuff, also it's nearby Roswell when there's a strange incident.

Wow, I really wonder what that was.........

Also - if you were to visit Australia, would you take a small boat and row all across the ocean? no, you'd take a giant cruise ship. Why space travelers should visit us with just a small random flying object, no bigger than an airplane? where's the mothership? which bring us to.....

I'm more interested in alternate dimensions, parallel universes and higher planes of reality, but anyway yeah, maybe someday who ever is piloting these vessels will actually introduce themselves, but until then there's not much that I have to say about it.

....yeah, I'd buy more the "they are here from another dimension" thing than "they're here having traveled all across the universe in a tiny flying object".

Also, where do they go once they have been sighted? where do they touch ground? how do they escape Earth without being noticed or slamming into one of our satellites? it's easier to think they hop in and hop out from another dimension.

[hefdaddy42]

It's hard to say where they go, because they leave at such speed that our best military aircraft can't keep up with them.

I don't think for a second this is some secret U.S. military tech, or the Pentagon wouldn't have declassified this stuff, or let word about it get out at all.  It's possible that it's from another country, but I doubt it.

[Stadler]

Also - if you were to visit Australia, would you take a small boat and row all across the ocean? no, you'd take a giant cruise ship. Why space travelers should visit us with just a small random flying object, no bigger than an airplane? where's the mothership? which bring us to.....

Well, no offense, but that's narrow thinking.  Relatively speaking that's EXACTLY what we did when we went to the moon.  We sent three men 289,000 miles, one way, on a vessel that was roughly the same size (31 feet wide) as the boat my ex-wife and I used to take to Block Island (33 feet long).

I think the only limiter is/are the laws of physics, such that we know them.  Temperature, pressure and three-dimensional force calculations.     

[cramx3]

I'd say it's very likely there is life out there beyond our planet.  Do I think these UFOs are part of that? Not really, but I guess possible.  It'll be interesting once all the info is released, but I'm not sure anything will be explained or give proof of extraterrestrials

[Stadler]

I've written this before:  I've had the privilege of asking two Air Force generals (one spoke to my MBA class, another was a friend of my ex-wife's) about UFO's, and both were unequivocal in answering "I can't talk about that"; the latter I asked (half jokingly) if he would wink or nod if he ever saw something that couldn't otherwise be explained and he flat out said "I won't answer that."  A very different answer to other questions I've asked that were more traditionally things he couldn't or shouldn't talk about.

I go back and forth whether those answers mean "there is SHIT out there", or if "other countries know some things we don't want them to know" is included.  I tend to think that there are answers to those questions that could rule out "there's some shit out there" and they weren't taken.

[MirrorMask]

Also - if you were to visit Australia, would you take a small boat and row all across the ocean? no, you'd take a giant cruise ship. Why space travelers should visit us with just a small random flying object, no bigger than an airplane? where's the mothership? which bring us to.....

Well, no offense, but that's narrow thinking.  Relatively speaking that's EXACTLY what we did when we went to the moon.  We sent three men 289,000 miles, one way, on a vessel that was roughly the same size (31 feet wide) as the boat my ex-wife and I used to take to Block Island (33 feet long).

I think the only limiter is/are the laws of physics, such that we know them.  Temperature, pressure and three-dimensional force calculations.   

The Moon was one specific mission, with I believe 6 manned landings in the entire history of space exploration. And it was to our nearby satellite. The nearby star is however four light years away. It took what, four days to go to the Moon? it will take six months to go to Mars. It would take four years of traveling at the speed of light to reach the nearby star, and nothing says that near that star there's a planet that could harbor intelligent lives.

Also, UFOs sightings have been so many for so many years. I can take six missions to the Moon starting from Earth, but hundreds of lone travelers from who knows how far?

You can use a tiny capsule to go the moon, if we'll go to Mars, I believe the spaceship would be bigger. And definitively a travel from another system would require more means, I can't imagine an alien - no, wait, so many aliens with so many tiny spaceships - sitting in a tiny space for years and years, unless we go full sci-fi and wave it away with "eh, they must have a super technology that allows them to jump through space and time".

[Zoom E]

I saw a story on this on 60 Minutes last night. The military and former military people they interviewed definitely do not believe that that these mysterious objects are US technology. Do China or Russia have technology more advanced that the US? Seems unlikely.

[ariich]

I think the only limiter is/are the laws of physics, such that we know them.  Temperature, pressure and three-dimensional force calculations.     

The word "only" is doing some heavy lifting there.

[Lonk]

I saw a story on this on 60 Minutes last night. The military and former military people they interviewed definitely do not believe that that these mysterious objects are US technology. Do China or Russia have technology more advanced that the US? Seems unlikely.

And yet, possible. The US has been falling behind when it comes to technology/engineering advancement. It is not at all out of the question to believe that other countries have technology that we don't.

I personally do not believe any of these sightings are extraterrestrial beings. I would love to be proven wrong, as I do believe life exist elsewhere in the universe. I just don't believe they have visited us.

[Ben_Jamin]

I will say....Japan has been using highly upscale technology that we don't even have here. All the technology is there in Japan.

The people of the Asias have vast knowledge of these things. They are more than capable of creating these types of things.

These aliens could also be the humanoids that they talk about, beings that are like us but are more advanced in technology they are able to come here, and visit. You just don't realize it because they're that Humanistic in their qualities.

I would suggest looking up about the continent of Mu and Lemuria.

The Hopi people have a story about the destruction of what they call the Third World, and how it was caused by the people with advanced technology. Those that held that knowledge were destroyed, but some fled and populated the Asian areas. These people were able to Travel by Astral Projection, they were capable of this a long time ago.

For myself, I believe in this, and believe there are beings out there that were once here, but as people began being destructive, they left this world.

And this technology, we were always capable of having but Noooo...They wanted to keep this secret. Imagine what we could've had already if they didn't hide this.

Because if it's another country, then they're capable of doing a lot more than you think they are.

[hunnus2000]

Remember what the U stands for. I'll give the fact the we don't know what it is but I'm not ready to make the jump from "We don't know what it is" to "it must be aliens from outer space"

[kirksnosehair]

Remember what the U stands for. I'll give the fact the we don't know what it is but I'm not ready to make the jump from "We don't know what it is" to "it must be aliens from outer space"

This is pretty much where I come down on this.  The universe is unimaginably massive.  It's the kind of massive that the human mind is barely able to comprehend. Our universe contains at least 70 septillion stars.  That's a 7 followed by 23 zeros. Astronomers estimate there exist roughly 10,000 stars for each grain of sand on Earth.

The odds that earth is the only planet on which intelligent, sentient life has existed (or will exist) are extremely small.   We see ourselves as a highly evolved, technologically advanced civilization but the reality is humans have only been around for a millisecond compared to how long the universe has been here.  So, there has to be other life or there has to have been other life.

I don't think the question is whether or not life exists outside of earth.   The question is how would we possibly know about it?  Any civilization that has developed the kind of technology it would require to travel here to earth from, say, the Andromeda Galaxy (the closest galaxy to our own Milky Way Galaxy) in a period of time during which life forms as we understand them could survive would be so far advanced beyond us that they would very likely look upon us as we look upon ants toiling in the soil beneath our feet. 

For all we know, life from "out there" might not even be carbon-based. 

Or it could exist in a higher dimension that we are incapable of perceiving.  Meaning, they could be here right now, living among us.  Unseen.  Unheard.  Unperceived by humans, but nonetheless present.  This would explain the occasional "bleed through" of UFO technology.  Imagine a species that's here already, trying to find ways to interact with us across dimentionsions.  Might UFOs be the experimentations of such creatures attempting to find a way to make themselves known to us?

I don't for one minute believe earth is the only place in the entire universe with life.  That, to me, would be the height of arrogance.  We're not that special. 

[cramx3]

You are so spot on that comprehending how big the universe is, is something our human minds really can't fathom.  It's so interesting to think about. 

[bosk1]

I've never really understood the leap from this:

The universe is unimaginably massive.  It's the kind of massive that the human mind is barely able to comprehend. Our universe contains at least 70 septillion stars.  That's a 7 followed by 23 zeros. Astronomers estimate there exist roughly 10,000 stars for each grain of sand on Earth.

...to this:

The odds that earth is the only planet on which intelligent, sentient life has existed (or will exist) are extremely small.   ...   So, there has to be other life or there has to have been other life.

Point #1 is indisputably true.  But taken #1 as given, the math still says that the odds of other intelligent life existing are infinitesimally small.  How do you get to #2?  Just doesn't make much sense to me. 

[hefdaddy42]

I've never really understood the leap from this:

The universe is unimaginably massive.  It's the kind of massive that the human mind is barely able to comprehend. Our universe contains at least 70 septillion stars.  That's a 7 followed by 23 zeros. Astronomers estimate there exist roughly 10,000 stars for each grain of sand on Earth.

...to this:

The odds that earth is the only planet on which intelligent, sentient life has existed (or will exist) are extremely small.   ...   So, there has to be other life or there has to have been other life.

Point #1 is indisputably true.  But taken #1 as given, the math still says that the odds of other intelligent life existing are infinitesimally small.  How do you get to #2?  Just doesn't make much sense to me. 

The math does not say that the odds of other intelligent life existing are ZERO.  So, given the vastness of space, the odds are that there is or has been some form of life somewhere.

[kirksnosehair]

Yeah, I don't understand the confusion there at all

[cramx3]

The odds are infinitely small and yet the universe is infinitely large 

[bosk1]

The confusion is this:  I have never seen a model for how intelligent life could have come to be that approaches one in "7 followed by 23 zeros."  So, since we haven't even broken the threshold of "more likely than not," I don't understand how some get to "it is virtually a certainty in my mind."

EDIT:  To use Cram's language, I agree with "the odds are [almost] infinitely small and yet the universe is [almost] infinitely large."  But where the math doesn't work for me is that the smallness of the odds is a LOT smaller by comparison than the largeness of the universe.  They are numbers that, in and of themselves, are incredibly difficult to comprehend.  But that fact notwithstanding, what is easy to comprehend is how disproportional they are to one another. 

But anyhow, not a big deal.  Was just curious whether Barry had an answer for that.  Apparently not.  And that's fine.

[kirksnosehair]

The odds are infinitely small and yet the universe is infinitely large 

Precisely!


As I wrote above:  Given the vastness of the universe the odds that the earth is the only planet to ever have intelligent life evolve on it are exceedingly small.  In fact, I think it's impossible.  Only one planet in a universe with life on it out of 10,000 stars for every grain of sand on earth?  No fucking way.  There has GOT to be some other intelligent life out there.  But as I wrote above, they would probably look upon us as we look upon an ant farm.


I'm not sure why that's confusing to anyone?

[cramx3]

I'm just not entirely sure how we know what the odds truly are to make any sort of statement beyond a guess. I feel like there's likely intelligent life out there, somewhere.  It's just a guess and I can't really back that up.  I don't personally think UFOs change that guess either.  Unless there's some truth to Roswell or similar. 

[kirksnosehair]

Uh, ok?  Did I say I was stating facts?  That I was right and you were wrong?   I'm just giving an opinion on something NOBODY can possibly KNOW the answer to.  WTF? 


Sometimes it almost seems like everyone here is literally searching for a way to argue about something 

[TAC]

[Stadler]

I see both sides, no surprise there. I tend to think that Barry is right, in the sense that there is life out there, but the notion that the odds of life are tied to the number of planets doesn't really flow for me either. 

Depending on what source you read, something like 100 billion people have ever lived on earth.   "Water allergy", recognized as a legitimate condition, is only known to have affected something like 30 people.  There's one diagnosis - "Field's Condition" - which literally has two diagnosed cases, the two Fields sisters who have it.

I guess it's a base assumption that you need a planet that can sustain whatever kind of life is "created" (there is no religious connotation there) but all the planet's in the world aren't going to help you unless you have all the building blocks in the right proportions, the catalytic conditions for them to form, whatever spark or trigger to start the reaction, and you need conditions to sustain suitably and for a long enough period of time to start an entire species. 

Not arguing, just musing out loud.

I'm of the opinion that we generally can't handle information like "there are aliens among us".  We can't even have civil discussions about the governments we live under, and the humans that live next door to us.  Imagine the uproar if there's a Jawa living down the street (I'm not joking even a little bit).

[bosk1]

Uh, ok?  Did I say I was stating facts?  That I was right and you were wrong?   I'm just giving an opinion on something NOBODY can possibly KNOW the answer to.  WTF? 


Sometimes it almost seems like everyone here is literally searching for a way to argue about something 

That seems kind of harsh.  I wasn't looking to argue.  Just pointing out that when I see that argument, it is kinda confusing to me, and just trying to gain insight as to why you think that way, that's all.  Nothing to get worked up about.

[jonny108]

Precisely why we're going to Mars to see if life ever existed there, or on Jupiter's or Saturn's moons.  If life is found there or was found to have been there, that would have massive consequences on the rarity of life.  Although for intelligent life to evolve would most likely be much less.  I think Brian Cox said he'd expect around 2 or 3 civilisations per galaxy at any one time - even that is a massive number.   

[kirksnosehair]

Uh, ok?  Did I say I was stating facts?  That I was right and you were wrong?   I'm just giving an opinion on something NOBODY can possibly KNOW the answer to.  WTF? 


Sometimes it almost seems like everyone here is literally searching for a way to argue about something 

That seems kind of harsh.  I wasn't looking to argue.  Just pointing out that when I see that argument, it is kinda confusing to me, and just trying to gain insight as to why you think that way, that's all.  Nothing to get worked up about.

Right, I wasn't referring to you - this place is like the fucking twilight zone 

[emtee]

The "what are they" aspect of this requires an open kind. As others have mentioned, alternate dimensions, wormholes, aliens, time travel, etc., we really have no clue. And then of course, maybe just earthly technology that is highly secret.

Obama was on one of the late shows and sort of joked about the aliens in a warehouse possibility but acknowledged that there are numerous occurrences with unexplainable objects that seem to defy the laws of physics as we understand them.

I hope to be able to read the full report in June.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

Neil deGrasse Tyson's Skepticism Over UFO's

[emtee]

https://www.foxnews.com/science/new-footage-shows-ufos-swarming-navy-ship

Another newly leaked video.

[hunnus2000]

Neil deGrasse Tyson's Skepticism Over UFO's

Boy - I do love me, some Neil deGrasse T!

But his skepticism has been consistent over the years as he he considers the evidence for alien life (as we would all like it to be) is inadequate which is where I fall in line as well.

Here is a great/fun response to if he believes in UFO's. If it doesn't come out at the right time stamp the go to 54:45 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAD25s53wmE

  - my bad!

[bosk1]

You didn't post any link.