Author Topic: Classical Composer Reacts to Various DT Songs  (Read 14359 times)

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Offline faizoff

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2021, 12:06:02 PM »
This video kept popping in my feed with the reaction to the 8V track and I finally watched it today. Loved his analysis.
I am curious though how or why he had the earlier leaked version of the title track that ends with the flute instead of the circling back to the start of Root of all evil.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #71 on: August 10, 2021, 12:08:37 PM »

I am curious though how or why he had the earlier leaked version of the title track that ends with the flute instead of the circling back to the start of Root of all evil.

I think he just picks a version off of Youtube. That's probably where it was.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline faizoff

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #72 on: August 10, 2021, 12:12:42 PM »
You are right, I just searched for Dream Theater Octavarium and the first track listed has over 4.5 million views with the same art he displayed on the video. That ends with the flute version.
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Offline Pettor

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #73 on: August 10, 2021, 01:29:24 PM »
That flute ending is the best ending though 😁

Offline Trav86

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #74 on: August 11, 2021, 07:54:22 AM »
That flute ending is the best ending though 😁

Ive always kinda preferred that one as well. But I get why they went with the other.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #75 on: August 11, 2021, 09:09:18 AM »
As a standalone song, the version with the flute might be better.  In context of the album, the official version is better.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #76 on: August 11, 2021, 09:13:34 AM »
As a standalone song, the version with the flute might be better.  In context of the album, the official version is better.

Agreed! The final album version completes the concept of the album, ending where it began. But the flute ending has a nice serene feel to it. I was surprised that original mix ever even got out/leaked the way it did! Has anything like that ever happened before or since, not just with Dream Theater but with other bands? I can't think of anything like that.

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Offline Chino

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #77 on: August 11, 2021, 09:26:55 AM »
Huh. Just realized this is actually the first time I've heard the flute outro. I remember hearing about it when the album leaked originally, but never heard it myself.

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #78 on: August 11, 2021, 11:42:27 AM »
In retrospect the piano actually does work better. Even though it relies on you having heard the album, it better communicates the idea of 'the story continues.' And it feels like more epic or whatever
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #79 on: August 11, 2021, 11:47:24 AM »
In retrospect the piano actually does work better. Even though it relies on you having heard the album, it better communicates the idea of 'the story continues.' And it feels like more epic or whatever

It's also a big coincidence that "Octavarium" has five parts (I-V) and its ending connects to the beginning of "The Root Of All Evil", which is parts VI-VII of the Twelve-Step Suite, creating continuity with numbered movements from the end of the album back to the beginning.

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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #80 on: August 11, 2021, 05:22:18 PM »
Watching Doug's first part of the Metropolis Pts 1 & 2 reaction video!

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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #81 on: August 11, 2021, 05:51:37 PM »
I'm gonna wait til it's finished and watch the whole thing in one go.

Offline TAC

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #82 on: August 11, 2021, 05:52:30 PM »
I'm gonna wait til it's finished and watch the whole thing in one go.

Me too. After dinner.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #83 on: August 11, 2021, 05:53:05 PM »
I know he's already covered The Dance Of Eternity.

Offline TAC

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #84 on: August 11, 2021, 07:47:43 PM »
So I'm watching this, and I'm not buying that he's not familiar with SFAM.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
You know that a mark of a great song is if TAC hates it with a special passion.

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #85 on: August 11, 2021, 08:10:33 PM »
So I'm watching this, and I'm not buying that he's not familiar with SFAM.

Maybe. He figured out all the story beats *exactly* when you're supposed to. On the other hand, he missed all the Metropolis references in home.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #86 on: August 11, 2021, 08:12:17 PM »
I skipped Home. ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
You know that a mark of a great song is if TAC hates it with a special passion.

Offline TAC

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #87 on: August 11, 2021, 08:31:22 PM »
This is such a great album. So amazing. I wish this was out when I was in college, when I could've gotten baked with my roommates and experienced it like that. :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
You know that a mark of a great song is if TAC hates it with a special passion.

Offline geeeemo

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #88 on: August 11, 2021, 09:09:30 PM »
This is such a great album. So amazing. I wish this was out when I was in college, when I could've gotten baked with my roommates and experienced it like that. :lol
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Offline faizoff

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #89 on: August 11, 2021, 09:14:41 PM »
Just watching his take on Illumination Theory and that breakdown with the orchestral part in the middle of the song is great stuff. I don't read music or play any instrument but that was so fun to listen to.
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Offline Pettor

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2021, 12:49:23 AM »
Yeah about Scenes From A Memory. How does anyone know the name Edward without watching the DVD etc.? It's never mentioned in the story right? Checked lyrics quickly online and no mention of Edward except ofc the spoiler explanation talking about him being the miracle. I mean if he got all that from just that one listen I am extremely impressed, that was waaaaaay over my head the first time I listened. Ofc I didn't sit down with lyrics etc. but once I did, understanding the final the twist (i.e. that he reincarnated), come on. I would never understand that without help from the community or the DVD haha 😁

Anyway great analysis and as always, I kind appreciate it more in a weird way. Like just knowing he will soon get to hear this and this piece and how extremely well crafted all those parts are, that's just somehow makes me realize even more how impressed I am with this album.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2021, 01:05:00 AM by Pettor »

Offline Pettor

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #91 on: August 12, 2021, 01:03:42 AM »
I did look in the booklet (long time ago now) and it does state the characters on the top. Maybe his lyrics did mention Edward and Julian in the same way so he could ofc understand it from that.

Offline krands85

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #92 on: August 12, 2021, 06:23:21 AM »
He mentions several times that he takes some notes before listening to give himself a bit of background on things.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #93 on: August 12, 2021, 10:44:41 AM »
I would totally dig a dialog between Doug and JR next time Doug does a DT piece.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #94 on: August 12, 2021, 01:35:58 PM »
Watched the Metropolis/SFAM review.  Kind of disappointing, actually, for a few reasons:

First, it lacked a lot of the typical musical insight he usually brings.  Yeah, he talked at times about keys and modes, and the chord progressions, etc.  But there is a lot less of that.  And a lot less bigger-picture analysis and why things are happening, how DT uses certain motifs in different ways, etc.  I know it's hard to put a lot of that in when there is so much content to get through.  But that is kind of his thing and what makes his channel unique.  So he basically ignored what is his bread and butter.

Second, I'm kinda disappointed that he didn't at least use the time between tracks to comment a bit more on whatever song he just heard.  Again, I know that's hard to do when there is so much material to cover, and the video is so long as it is.  But given what I have come to expect from his past videos, he didn't really deliver on what he is known for.

Third, I could be mistaken, but I am pretty sure he has more familiarity with the material than this being a completely fresh first listen (other than TDOE).  There were a lot of "tells" in his reactions and a lot of parts where he would sing along or guess where something was going that a fresh listener wouldn't be able to pick out.  Yes, someone with a trained musical earn and lots of in-depth knowledge of theory is going to be able to recognize and predict where music is going to go a lot of times.  One of my favorite reactors, Chase Carneson, does this a lot.  For example, even on first listen, Chase can often pick up on the musical and structural cues to tell when a piece is going to go into a chorus or a new verse, and will often pause right at the transition.  But this is because the song in question is structured somewhat traditionally or there are cues in the song that tell an educated listener that a transition is about to occur.  There are a few times in this video where the cues on not obvious, but Doug apparently knows where we are going because he is right there with the transition.  Or, for example, when the band or James repeats a melody, but changes it from what it was previously, and Doug anticipates and sings the change.  He does it quite a few times, which makes it hard for me to buy that he nailed where the song was going based solely off of spontaneously applying his admittedly vast musical knowledge and vocabulary, while also simultaneously guessing which of the many available musical options the band or James would choose at a particular juncture.  I don't mind at all if a reactor has previously seen/heard whatever he/she is reacting to.  Just be up front about it and don't try to pass it off as a first time reaction if it isn't completely that. 

Fourth, metal bands use double kick patterns.  Get over it. 

What I did like is that he did actually point out some things that are not obvious and are cool.  It's just that he didn't do as much.  I also liked that he followed the lyrics closely to try to get as much of the story as he could.  And, frankly, the fact that he was so focused (and did a bit of research ahead of time) helped him pick up on a lot of things a first-time listener wouldn't have gotten.  It was fun seeing him unpack the story in real time.  And his enjoyment of the music and story were contagious, which renew my own appreciation of the album.

Overall, thumbs up.  It was a fun watch, despite my disappointment in a few things.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #95 on: August 12, 2021, 01:55:26 PM »
Watched the Metropolis/SFAM review.  Kind of disappointing, actually, for a few reasons:

First, it lacked a lot of the typical musical insight he usually brings.  Yeah, he talked at times about keys and modes, and the chord progressions, etc.  But there is a lot less of that.  And a lot less bigger-picture analysis and why things are happening, how DT uses certain motifs in different ways, etc.  I know it's hard to put a lot of that in when there is so much content to get through.  But that is kind of his thing and what makes his channel unique.  So he basically ignored what is his bread and butter.

Yeah it was cool that he enjoyed the story and it made me like the story more but what I liked about the Octavarium review was he was like "ah, here's a chord progression they used before" that I didn't notice.

Quote
Second, I'm kinda disappointed that he didn't at least use the time between tracks to comment a bit more on whatever song he just heard.  Again, I know that's hard to do when there is so much material to cover, and the video is so long as it is.  But given what I have come to expect from his past videos, he didn't really deliver on what he is known for.

I'll give this a pass because the react is already movie length but I know what you mean. Maybe better as a multi-part video?

Quote
Third, I could be mistaken, but I am pretty sure he has more familiarity with the material than this being a completely fresh first listen (other than TDOE).  There were a lot of "tells" in his reactions and a lot of parts where he would sing along or guess where something was going that a fresh listener wouldn't be able to pick out.  Yes, someone with a trained musical earn and lots of in-depth knowledge of theory is going to be able to recognize and predict where music is going to go a lot of times.  One of my favorite reactors, Chase Carneson, does this a lot.  For example, even on first listen, Chase can often pick up on the musical and structural cues to tell when a piece is going to go into a chorus or a new verse, and will often pause right at the transition.  But this is because the song in question is structured somewhat traditionally or there are cues in the song that tell an educated listener that a transition is about to occur.  There are a few times in this video where the cues on not obvious, but Doug apparently knows where we are going because he is right there with the transition.  Or, for example, when the band or James repeats a melody, but changes it from what it was previously, and Doug anticipates and sings the change.  He does it quite a few times, which makes it hard for me to buy that he nailed where the song was going based solely off of spontaneously applying his admittedly vast musical knowledge and vocabulary, while also simultaneously guessing which of the many available musical options the band or James would choose at a particular juncture.  I don't mind at all if a reactor has previously seen/heard whatever he/she is reacting to.  Just be up front about it and don't try to pass it off as a first time reaction if it isn't completely that.

Not a bad theory.

Quote
Fourth, metal bands use double kick patterns.  Get over it.

You can tell he's half joking at this point but it is kinda weird. I watched a bit of his Kingdom video (best song for react content on Youtube) and he didn't enjoy Townsends harsh vocals. These things are genre conventions of metal. It's like listening to Jazz and being like "and then they had to ruin the song by putting a saxophone in it" 

Quote
Overall, thumbs up.  It was a fun watch, despite my disappointment in a few things.

Agreed. For excitement this was a fun watch
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #96 on: August 12, 2021, 04:36:51 PM »
Watched the Metropolis/SFAM review.

I can't really disagree with any of that (except for the "third" paragraph, which I'm not so sure about).
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Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #97 on: August 12, 2021, 09:10:09 PM »
The second he hears double bass he writes it off as lazy and fails to listen for what its actually adding. I get it with some of the more extreme metal where maybe the constant double bass makes the music feel one dimensional, but both Portnoy and Mangini know how to use it dynamically to up the intensity of a section, and to write it off as lazy when these prog drummers are among the most creative musicians in the world is a little frustrating.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #98 on: August 13, 2021, 05:09:24 AM »
+1 for being a bit let down that he didn't talk more about the music theory and progressions and just kinda commented on the story.

Offline darkshade

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #99 on: August 13, 2021, 11:32:21 AM »
These things are genre conventions of metal. It's like listening to Jazz and being like "and then they had to ruin the song by putting a saxophone in it" 


To be fair, as someone who listens to a ton of jazz and jazz related music, there is a ton of it out there with no sax in sight, and when there is sax, I often react similarly: "they had to ruin this by putting a saxophone in it."  :lol There is lots of metal out there that's doesn't use, or rely on, fairly simple double kick drums playing quarter notes or eighth notes in 4/4 or 6/8 and acting as a mechanical metronome, and doesn't always contribute to the actual music/composition, which is what I think Doug's main complaint about their use is.

*I find most jazz sax players don't have enough melody in their playing, their playing can be grating on the ears, and/or blare and honk their horn too much.

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #100 on: August 16, 2021, 04:15:17 PM »
I watched the Metropolis Pt. 1 and SFAM reaction over the weekend and enjoyed it a lot.  I can't complain that he didn't do enough analysis cause it's understandable that this was his first extended play attempt with an extremely large amount of material to get through.  Not only that, but DT's musical composition is so complex and changes so frequently that he would have to pause a bunch of times and try to explain what he just heard.  He clearly didn't have the time to do that.  I think what I enjoy the most is his enthusiasm and facial expressions.  Very entertaining and amusing to watch.
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #101 on: August 16, 2021, 05:46:40 PM »
He definitely phoned it in. And he sure hates double bass  :lol.

Offline PetFish

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #102 on: August 16, 2021, 07:48:19 PM »
He definitely phoned it in. And he sure hates double bass  :lol.

As much as I love the guy he really needs to shaddap about double bass.  Jeez.

Offline TAC

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #103 on: August 16, 2021, 07:52:03 PM »
It's not like MP was double bass crazy on SFAM anyway. He used it tastefully.

I've enjoyed some of his DT reactions, but the guy is kind of a douche.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D
You know that a mark of a great song is if TAC hates it with a special passion.

Offline TM172003

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Re: Classical Composer Reacts to OCTAVARIUM
« Reply #104 on: August 17, 2021, 07:59:20 AM »
What? He seems pretty likeable.