Would society let me starve if I didn't wear a mask?

[Stadler]

I have told people in this thread to talk to medical professionals, and get expert advice. I am not saying that western medicine is the ONLY valid opinion. But this - talking to experts, weighing their different ideas and opinions, and deciding what is best for you - is much different than just burying oneself in a mountain of fringe podcasts and alternative news sources.

Your post is awesome; seriously. It's fair, it's measured, and it's reasonably objective.  No mocking, no moral indignation, etc.

But the devil is in the details.  That bolded part is really where the rubber meets the road, and where the real test is.  If someone talks to the experts, weighs different ideas and opinions, and DECIDES WHAT IS BEST FOR THEM - but that "decide" is "not wearing a mask at this time" or "not getting the vaccine at this time", I wonder if that will really be honored.    Given some - not all, but some - of the responses here, just assuming that anyone that doesn't "comply" is ignorant, or mocking their beliefs (and intelligence) by generalizing them as simply "muh freedoms" is hardly honoring someone's right to decide what is best for them.    Do we belittle the women fighting for the right to abortion as fighting for "muh freedoms"? 

[Stadler]

Kudos to everyone here for being a lot more blunt than I was willing to be. It makes me more open to actually speaking my mind. A pandemic is not the time to make a statement, especially a statement fueled by ignorance towards a global crisis that has killed millions of people. I work with disabled adults. We lost ten of our individuals as well as the owner of our company to this virus. Shut up and put on your fucking mask.

That's got to be hard man, hopefully the worst is behind you bud.

I'm usually a bit more diplomatic, but I had a near run in with a few at the store last night, two ladies just straight up flaunting it. They had masks, with "MY BODY NO CHOICE" written on them in Sharpie pen, and they were hanging on their chin as opposed to being worn proper. It was late, I had already put in 13 hours on the day, and had zero desire to deal with these cunts. But this shit happens almost daily at the store (it's a whole foods btw), and it's just fucking exhausting man.

I try to be diplomatic, but that gets harder every day. I try to avoid discussing political issues, but when one is right in front of my face and it’s what I think of as more of a moral issue, I tend to get a bit heated. It’s the sole reason why I don’t go anywhere near P/R as I like these forums and don’t really want to get banned.

General question you don't have to answer if you don't want to:  are "morals" to you an individual or a group decision?   Does anyone one person get to decide the morals for another?   The obvious example here is sexuality; didn't society decide for quite some time that certain sexual proclivities were "immoral"?   Some still are.   I don't disagree that it might be a moral issue, but I also believe pretty strongly that I get to decide for me where my morals land.  If your moral position is monogamy, and my moral position is something more, let's say, plentiful, is either one of us more correct than the other?

I honestly don't see much about COVID, or the COVID response, that is necessarily "moral".

[TheCountOfNYC]

Kudos to everyone here for being a lot more blunt than I was willing to be. It makes me more open to actually speaking my mind. A pandemic is not the time to make a statement, especially a statement fueled by ignorance towards a global crisis that has killed millions of people. I work with disabled adults. We lost ten of our individuals as well as the owner of our company to this virus. Shut up and put on your fucking mask.

That's got to be hard man, hopefully the worst is behind you bud.

I'm usually a bit more diplomatic, but I had a near run in with a few at the store last night, two ladies just straight up flaunting it. They had masks, with "MY BODY NO CHOICE" written on them in Sharpie pen, and they were hanging on their chin as opposed to being worn proper. It was late, I had already put in 13 hours on the day, and had zero desire to deal with these cunts. But this shit happens almost daily at the store (it's a whole foods btw), and it's just fucking exhausting man.

I try to be diplomatic, but that gets harder every day. I try to avoid discussing political issues, but when one is right in front of my face and it’s what I think of as more of a moral issue, I tend to get a bit heated. It’s the sole reason why I don’t go anywhere near P/R as I like these forums and don’t really want to get banned.

General question you don't have to answer if you don't want to:  are "morals" to you an individual or a group decision?   Does anyone one person get to decide the morals for another?   The obvious example here is sexuality; didn't society decide for quite some time that certain sexual proclivities were "immoral"?   Some still are.   I don't disagree that it might be a moral issue, but I also believe pretty strongly that I get to decide for me where my morals land.  If your moral position is monogamy, and my moral position is something more, let's say, plentiful, is either one of us more correct than the other?

I honestly don't see much about COVID, or the COVID response, that is necessarily "moral".

For me, it’s “are you letting your own personal beliefs get in the way of other people’s happiness and well being”. For the sexuality thing, I am not gay, and two consenting adults wanting to spend their life together doesn’t hurt me whether it’s a man and a woman or two people of the same sex/gender. They aren’t hurting me or others so I support them. For the masks, it’s protecting other people in case you’re sick, and wearing the mask doesn’t actually hurt you. When someone says “wearing a mask is infringing on my freedom” what they’re really saying is “my desire to do whatever I want is more important than the health of my fellow citizens”, and I’m sorry but that isn’t making a political statement. That’s being an asshole.

[Stadler]

NOT YOU, because I have no idea where you stand on various issues (and it's not my business), but would that other people that shared your belief - and I don't disagree with it, at least generally - were consistent in their application of that mantra.  Because there is PLENTY that the people mocking the freedom advocates do that harms me and they don't give a rat's ass because it fits their personal beliefs.   

[ariich]

And of course the prevalence of misinformation about the expanding COVID situation in India.  No need to use a picture from three years ago if you're not looking to "twist the truth to fit the opinion".

Unless it's just general journalistic incompetence. Occam's Razor.

[Stadler]

And of course the prevalence of misinformation about the expanding COVID situation in India.  No need to use a picture from three years ago if you're not looking to "twist the truth to fit the opinion".

Unless it's just general journalistic incompetence. Occam's Razor.

Which doesn't apply; "Occam's Razor" is, loosely, the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex; except that means here that we have to assume that people's base humanity, involuntary subconscious reactions, and core integrity are different depending on your arbitrary political affiliation or, worse, the content of the information itself.  Conservative misinformation?  Deliberate misinformation intended to twist the truth and sway opinion.  Liberal misinformation?  General journalistic incompetence.   No, I don't think that's very "simple".

[ariich]

And of course the prevalence of misinformation about the expanding COVID situation in India.  No need to use a picture from three years ago if you're not looking to "twist the truth to fit the opinion".

Unless it's just general journalistic incompetence. Occam's Razor.

Which doesn't apply; "Occam's Razor" is, loosely, the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex; except that means here that we have to assume that people's base humanity, involuntary subconscious reactions, and core integrity are different depending on your arbitrary political affiliation or, worse, the content of the information itself.  Conservative misinformation?  Deliberate misinformation intended to twist the truth and sway opinion.  Liberal misinformation?  General journalistic incompetence.   No, I don't think that's very "simple".

It is when there are plenty of real, up-to-date photos that the NY Post could have used, and which other outlets used.

[WilliamMunny]

Simple question. If I don't want to support food being delivered to my house and would rather support local businesses, but refuse to wear a mask inside grocery stores, restaurants, or convenient stores, does the United States society let me starve to death because wearing a mask is for "the good of society"?

I say yes, because a lot of Americans are apathetic, stupid and scaredy cats over everything. The US government allows the kinds of food to be sold that cause cancer, they also allow cigarettes to be sold to the general public, despite the common knowledge that they kill half a million Americans every single year.

I think this is more philosophical that political and I can't post in the political section anyway. Just a weird thought that popped into my head.

Let me prefice this by saying this not an attack on you, Darkshade, but rather, a thought inspired by your OP.

As someone who works retail and has had to deal with some seemingly normal, upstanding people being incredibly beligerant/borderline violent over the past year, I am literally incapable of understanding what the problem is with wearing a mask, let alone why someone would choose to use it as a reason to attack another human being.

I know there are probably 10,000 posts spread across 1000 pages of political themed threads where a handful of you have beat this horse to death, but even after reading some incredibly thoughtful arguments both for and against, I still don't get the big deal (hence why I avoid posting in said threads).

[darkshade]

Simple question. If I don't want to support food being delivered to my house and would rather support local businesses, but refuse to wear a mask inside grocery stores, restaurants, or convenient stores, does the United States society let me starve to death because wearing a mask is for "the good of society"?

I say yes, because a lot of Americans are apathetic, stupid and scaredy cats over everything. The US government allows the kinds of food to be sold that cause cancer, they also allow cigarettes to be sold to the general public, despite the common knowledge that they kill half a million Americans every single year.

I think this is more philosophical that political and I can't post in the political section anyway. Just a weird thought that popped into my head.

Let me prefice this by saying this not an attack on you, Darkshade, but rather, a thought inspired by your OP.

As someone who works retail and has had to deal with some seemingly normal, upstanding people being incredibly beligerant/borderline violent over the past year, I am literally incapable of understanding what the problem is with wearing a mask, let alone why someone would choose to use it as a reason to attack another human being.

I know there are probably 10,000 posts spread across 1000 pages of political themed threads where a handful of you have beat this horse to death, but even after reading some incredibly thoughtful arguments both for and against, I still don't get the big deal (hence why I avoid posting in said threads).

The masks were always a visual representation to show compliance and submission by the masses to those in power in order to make it easier to push the vaccines on the public.

[Adami]

I’m gonna regret this, but why did those in power so desperately want everyone to take the vaccine?

[darkshade]

I’m gonna regret this, but why do those in power so desperately want everyone to take the vaccine?

a) to make money
b) to reduce elderly population size
c) have more control over the masses
d) all of the above
e) something about China, DNA, RNA, 5G, making it easier to assassinate people, but fragile people get offended by conspiracy theories.

[Adami]

That all tracks. Yup.

[darkshade]

That all tracks. Yup.

Keep in mind, it's multiple choice, but it doesn't mean I believe those are the reasons, or that they're all legit, except the making more money one.
But reducing elderly population means less SS checks going out, too.

[Adami]

I didn’t ask possible reasons, I asked what you think the answer is. So why do YOU think the those in power want everyone to take the vaccine? Also it sounds like you think the virus was all planned out as well?

[lonestar]

I'm probably going to regret this as well, but if They wanted to reduce the elderly population, why would they enforce masks/social distancing/lockdowns, if the disease runs rampant through the elderly anyways?

[darkshade]

I'm probably going to regret this as well, but if They wanted to reduce the elderly population, why would they enforce masks/social distancing/lockdowns, if the disease runs rampant through the elderly anyways?

The masks were always a visual representation to show compliance and submission by the masses to those in power in order to make it easier to push the vaccines on the public.

I didn’t ask possible reasons, I asked what you think the answer is. So why do YOU think the those in power want everyone to take the vaccine? Also it sounds like you think the virus was all planned out as well?

Money, control, and I do think it was planned, with the US colluding with the CCP. So many members of Congress, as well as former VP El Presidente Biden, Fauci, Obama, are beholden to the CCP. I don't think the virus is fake, but it has been blown out of proportion, and used as a bio weapon against the US Constitution. Throw in Marxist groups like BLM or anarchist groups like Antifa, and you have the recipe to take down the USA from within.

[XeRocks81]

I'm probably going to regret this as well, but if They wanted to reduce the elderly population, why would they enforce masks/social distancing/lockdowns, if the disease runs rampant through the elderly anyways?

The masks were always a visual representation to show compliance and submission by the masses to those in power in order to make it easier to push the vaccines on the public.

I didn’t ask possible reasons, I asked what you think the answer is. So why do YOU think the those in power want everyone to take the vaccine? Also it sounds like you think the virus was all planned out as well?

Money, control, and I do think it was planned, with the US colluding with the CCP. So many members of Congress, as well as former VP El Presidente Biden, Fauci, Obama, are beholden to the CCP. I don't think the virus is fake, but it has been blown out of proportion, and used as a bio weapon against the US Constitution. Throw in Marxist groups like BLM or anarchist groups like Antifa, and you have the recipe to take down the USA from within.

people did try to take down the USA from within, on january 6th 2021 and it wasn't marxists groups, BLM or anarchists and it was on live tv for everyone to see.

[TAC]

I'm probably going to regret this as well, but if They wanted to reduce the elderly population, why would they enforce masks/social distancing/lockdowns, if the disease runs rampant through the elderly anyways?

The masks were always a visual representation to show compliance and submission by the masses to those in power in order to make it easier to push the vaccines on the public.

I didn’t ask possible reasons, I asked what you think the answer is. So why do YOU think the those in power want everyone to take the vaccine? Also it sounds like you think the virus was all planned out as well?

Money, control, and I do think it was planned, with the US colluding with the CCP. So many members of Congress, as well as former VP El Presidente Biden, Fauci, Obama, are beholden to the CCP. I don't think the virus is fake, but it has been blown out of proportion, and used as a bio weapon against the US Constitution. Throw in Marxist groups like BLM or anarchist groups like Antifa, and you have the recipe to take down the USA from within.

darkshade, no offence brother, but this post is out there.

[King Postwhore]

We should make this theory into a TV series.

[Dave_Manchester]

I'm probably going to regret this as well, but if They wanted to reduce the elderly population, why would they enforce masks/social distancing/lockdowns, if the disease runs rampant through the elderly anyways?

The masks were always a visual representation to show compliance and submission by the masses to those in power in order to make it easier to push the vaccines on the public.

I didn’t ask possible reasons, I asked what you think the answer is. So why do YOU think the those in power want everyone to take the vaccine? Also it sounds like you think the virus was all planned out as well?

Money, control, and I do think it was planned, with the US colluding with the CCP. So many members of Congress, as well as former VP El Presidente Biden, Fauci, Obama, are beholden to the CCP. I don't think the virus is fake, but it has been blown out of proportion, and used as a bio weapon against the US Constitution. Throw in Marxist groups like BLM or anarchist groups like Antifa, and you have the recipe to take down the USA from within.

Almost a year ago to the day I had a post deleted from this part of the forum because the person who deleted it deemed it "political" (translation, I dared to point out the nonsense of Donald Trump and debunk his lies), yet all this delusional right-wing conspiracy shit has stayed up across multiple threads (I notice you broke out the 9/11 truther stuff in an earlier post, and that stayed up whereas my stuff gets shitcanned). How thoroughly surprising, maybe we should patronisingly rename this part of the board the "echo chamber"?

Darkshade, I can't address you properly in this part of the board because I will be deleted for getting "political" (I'm a leftie you see). Please ask for permission to post in the P/R section of the forum, I'll give you the information you need there. I think you're sincere and I want to talk to you but on this part of the board it's an uneven situation, I'll be walking a tightrope no matter what facts I post whereas you'll be protected no matter what horseshit you post. Come to P/R please.

[darkshade]

people did try to take down the USA from within, on january 6th 2021 and it wasn't marxists groups, BLM or anarchists and it was on live tv for everyone to see.

While there were Trump supporters there, they got caught up in a riot started by Democratic Party supporters and ANTIFA members paying dress up as stereotypical Trump supporters, and they had no guns, were welcomed inside the Capitol by the police, and no one arrested has been charged with treason, insurrection, or sedition.

Evidence? How many arrested are self-professed Democratic Party supporters on social media? Easy to look up.

The only one killed was an unarmed white female veteran with her hands visible, shot by a cop standing all by himself, while she was surrounded by other police officers. No wonder the media has been constantly misreporting events of that day ever since, along with anything related to the 2020 election.

If that's an insurrection, BLM riots are recreations of D-Day.

[XeRocks81]

well then I think  we've just about hit everything.   Does anyone have any thoughts on reptilians?

[darkshade]

well then I think  we've just about hit everything.   Does anyone have any thoughts on reptilians?

The CIA has taught you well.
Best way to destroy debate, bring up your extensive knowledge of David Icke theories.

[darkshade]

Almost a year ago to the day I had a post deleted from this part of the forum because the person who deleted it deemed it "political" (translation, I dared to point out the nonsense of Donald Trump and debunk his lies), yet all this delusional right-wing conspiracy shit has stayed up across multiple threads (I notice you broke out the 9/11 truther stuff in an earlier post, and that stayed up whereas my stuff gets shitcanned). How thoroughly surprising, maybe we should patronisingly rename this part of the board the "echo chamber"?

Darkshade, I can't address you properly in this part of the board because I will be deleted for getting "political" (I'm a leftie you see). Please ask for permission to post in the P/R section of the forum, I'll give you the information you need there. I think you're sincere and I want to talk to you but on this part of the board it's an uneven situation, I'll be walking a tightrope no matter what facts I post whereas you'll be protected no matter what horseshit you post. Come to P/R please.

Based on this post, ARE you a leftie, or really a liberal who's confused about the differences between being leftist and being liberal?
What makes you think I am right wing? Where have I posted anything related to my political leanings on DTF?
Is calling Biden an illegitimate president a right wing view because election laws in swing states were changed unconstitutionally?
TIME magazine admitted there was a national coup attempt, with help from CCP, to overthrow Trump's win on Election night.

[King Postwhore]

Unarmed female veteran.  Lol. I'll say this again.  I've said many times I think African Americans put themselves in bad positions with police when they don't comply when they are pulled over.

I feel the same about this woman. Unarmed? How do you know in that moment when she is violently trying to break into Capitol. 

If you think thank isn't against the law, with police drawing their guns then you are delusional.

One can protest without violence breaking into THE CAPITOL!! THE CAPITOL!!  Common sense says if you try this you will be shot.  She is guilty.   She is not innocent. 

[darkshade]

Unarmed female veteran.  Lol. I'll say this again.  I've said many times I think African Americans put themselves in bad positions with police when they don't comply when they are pulled over.

I feel the same about this woman. Unarmed? How do you know in that moment when she is violently trying to break into Capitol. 

If you think thank isn't against the law, with police drawing their guns then you are delusional.

One can protest without violence breaking into THE CAPITOL!! THE CAPITOL!!  Common sense says if you try this you will be shot.  She is guilty.   She is not innocent.

It's like you didn't read anything I typed except one small portion, the unarmed white woman portion...
If you're going to be morally dishonest with me, just admit it beforehand so I can respond accordingly.

[Dave_Manchester]

Almost a year ago to the day I had a post deleted from this part of the forum because the person who deleted it deemed it "political" (translation, I dared to point out the nonsense of Donald Trump and debunk his lies), yet all this delusional right-wing conspiracy shit has stayed up across multiple threads (I notice you broke out the 9/11 truther stuff in an earlier post, and that stayed up whereas my stuff gets shitcanned). How thoroughly surprising, maybe we should patronisingly rename this part of the board the "echo chamber"?

Darkshade, I can't address you properly in this part of the board because I will be deleted for getting "political" (I'm a leftie you see). Please ask for permission to post in the P/R section of the forum, I'll give you the information you need there. I think you're sincere and I want to talk to you but on this part of the board it's an uneven situation, I'll be walking a tightrope no matter what facts I post whereas you'll be protected no matter what horseshit you post. Come to P/R please.

Based on this post, ARE you a leftie, or really a liberal who's confused about the differences between being leftist and being liberal?
What makes you think I am right wing? Where have I posted anything related to my political leanings on DTF?
Is calling Biden an illegitimate president a right wing view because election laws in swing states were changed unconstitutionally?
TIME magazine admitted there was a national coup attempt, with help from CCP, to overthrow Trump's win on Election night.

I'd like to repeat: my post that factually debunked Trump's dangerous lies about the coronavirus got instantly deleted from this part of the forum by a Trump voter because he decided it was "political". This insane shit however has been going on for over a week.

Darkshade, why did you not respond to me when I corrected you on what Fauci's "own words" were on the efficacy of masks? You instead just instantly moved on to your next conspiracy theory.

[Harmony]

Has anyone watched Q: Into the Storm?  I think that could explain a lot here.

[King Postwhore]

[quot4e author=darkshade link=topic=56420.msg2771374#msg2771374 date=1620178552]

Unarmed female veteran.  Lol. I'll say this again.  I've said many times I think African Americans put themselves in bad positions with police when they don't comply when they are pulled over.

I feel the same about this woman. Unarmed? How do you know in that moment when she is violently trying to break into Capitol. 

If you think thank isn't against the law, with police drawing their guns then you are delusional.

One can protest without violence breaking into THE CAPITOL!! THE CAPITOL!!  Common sense says if you try this you will be shot.  She is guilty.   She is not innocent.

It's like you didn't read anything I typed except one small portion, the unarmed white woman portion...
If you're going to be morally dishonest with me, just admit it beforehand so I can respond accordingly.
[/quote]

HA!  I've said many times on this forum that extremism like you from both sides is eroding this country. 

You sound batshit crazy.  You are the problem just as the left who are extremists. 

[darkshade]

Almost a year ago to the day I had a post deleted from this part of the forum because the person who deleted it deemed it "political" (translation, I dared to point out the nonsense of Donald Trump and debunk his lies), yet all this delusional right-wing conspiracy shit has stayed up across multiple threads (I notice you broke out the 9/11 truther stuff in an earlier post, and that stayed up whereas my stuff gets shitcanned). How thoroughly surprising, maybe we should patronisingly rename this part of the board the "echo chamber"?

Darkshade, I can't address you properly in this part of the board because I will be deleted for getting "political" (I'm a leftie you see). Please ask for permission to post in the P/R section of the forum, I'll give you the information you need there. I think you're sincere and I want to talk to you but on this part of the board it's an uneven situation, I'll be walking a tightrope no matter what facts I post whereas you'll be protected no matter what horseshit you post. Come to P/R please.

Based on this post, ARE you a leftie, or really a liberal who's confused about the differences between being leftist and being liberal?
What makes you think I am right wing? Where have I posted anything related to my political leanings on DTF?
Is calling Biden an illegitimate president a right wing view because election laws in swing states were changed unconstitutionally?
TIME magazine admitted there was a national coup attempt, with help from CCP, to overthrow Trump's win on Election night.

I'd like to repeat: my post that factually debunked Trump's dangerous lies about the coronavirus got instantly deleted from this part of the forum by a Trump voter because he decided it was "political". This insane shit however has been going on for over a week.

I read it the first time you posted about it.

[TAC]

You sound batshit crazy. 

 

[darkshade]

HA!  I've said many times on this forum that extremism like you from both sides is eroding this country. 

You sound batshit crazy.  You are the problem just as the left who are extremists.

What have I said that is "extremism"? When a country slowly moves towards communism, anything that doesn't line up with that is extremism.

[lonestar]

Has anyone watched Q: Into the Storm?  I think that could explain a lot here.

Yup, nailed it.

[Dave_Manchester]

Almost a year ago to the day I had a post deleted from this part of the forum because the person who deleted it deemed it "political" (translation, I dared to point out the nonsense of Donald Trump and debunk his lies), yet all this delusional right-wing conspiracy shit has stayed up across multiple threads (I notice you broke out the 9/11 truther stuff in an earlier post, and that stayed up whereas my stuff gets shitcanned). How thoroughly surprising, maybe we should patronisingly rename this part of the board the "echo chamber"?

Darkshade, I can't address you properly in this part of the board because I will be deleted for getting "political" (I'm a leftie you see). Please ask for permission to post in the P/R section of the forum, I'll give you the information you need there. I think you're sincere and I want to talk to you but on this part of the board it's an uneven situation, I'll be walking a tightrope no matter what facts I post whereas you'll be protected no matter what horseshit you post. Come to P/R please.

Based on this post, ARE you a leftie, or really a liberal who's confused about the differences between being leftist and being liberal?
What makes you think I am right wing? Where have I posted anything related to my political leanings on DTF?
Is calling Biden an illegitimate president a right wing view because election laws in swing states were changed unconstitutionally?
TIME magazine admitted there was a national coup attempt, with help from CCP, to overthrow Trump's win on Election night.

I'd like to repeat: my post that factually debunked Trump's dangerous lies about the coronavirus got instantly deleted from this part of the forum by a Trump voter because he decided it was "political". This insane shit however has been going on for over a week.

I read it the first time you posted about it.

Then you're lucky because people here didn't get a second chance to read my takedown of the kind of shit you're posting here, it got deleted within an instant. You however have had the floor for over a week.

[darkshade]

Darkshade, why did you not respond to me when I corrected you on what Fauci's "own words" were on the efficacy of masks? You instead just instantly moved on to your next conspiracy theory.

My fault.

Fauci said no masks. Doesn't provide protection you think it does.
Then he said he lied about that...

Then he said wear masks.
But remember, he lied about not needing masks.

Then he said wear two masks.
But remember, he lied about not needing masks.

Does it matter "WHY" he lied? How do we know that wasn't a cover for another lie? Why trust liars?

Why are we even listening to him, when thousands of other doctors world wide think he is a f-r-a-u-d and a bureaucrat?