Author Topic: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?  (Read 9440 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43016
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2021, 11:54:16 AM »
I just question how a teen was able to gain that high of a platform to be able to talk to the world about a major problem that Adults are trying to figure out how to solve...

Since people dismiss when Adults give their perspectives, what makes a child the highly sought out person about this...What gives her the credentials to be able to speak on something like this?

Having her speak just makes me think they are using her only as the...."Listen to this child, she is the future, and you need to listen to her....Won't somebody please think of the children."

My beef is less with her personally than it is with those elevating her to some level of speciality.  Let's not beat around the bush:  when you think the other side - those that oppose your way of thinking - are stupid, ignorant and close-minded, there is a powerful implicit message in "and a child will lead them".   If you don't immediately see the messaging that "even this kid can understand this, so what's your excuse, dumb-ass", then you're not really paying attention to the way these dialogues historically go.

That is mine too. I have no problem with Greta at all. It's more the ones whom gave her the platform and how they are using her and her message for their own benefits and narratives to get what they want. And they are using what you said with "You seriously can't understand, while this child does. Bro, you're a dumbass."

That's why I wonder how she got this kind of platform in the first place, and what made her the special child....

So you all think she's a product of manipulation being guided others? Am I reading that correctly?  ???

Not from me.   I have no way of knowing if she is being manipulated or guided by others.  I just had a beef with third parties using her to send their message and/or drive their agenda.  Whether she's a part of it or not. 

I'm a father of four, and a grandfather to one-soon-to-be-two.  I don't need her to feel the weight of our children's future on my shoulders.  That said, many (most?) of the solutions aren't solutions at all, but a way to further an agenda, economic or political or both, and I'm not interested in that.   As long as the current second-largest polluter is free from sanction, and can pollute with impunity, our participation is just national suicide, and we'll gain nothing but losing what little global influence we still have.  Oversimplification, to be sure, but it's not inaccurate.

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59297
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2021, 11:55:56 AM »

I didn't learn that my uncle molested my cousin until I was in my 20's.  My parents kept that out of my life.  That's more of what I'm talking about.  Never did my dad stop me and start to tell me the gas wars in the last 70's and who was at fault for this.  If I asked he would have a sit down.  That's how it should be.  Grownups putting their grown up issues on children is bad for kids.

I just learned last weekend at the age of 32 that my Great Uncle (dad's uncle) killed his son and then himself. Turns out the son had some kind of very severe mental retardation and his mother was long dead. My great uncle had some kind of dementia coming on, and said in his suicide note that killing his son was done in mercy. He's all the kid had and he was slowly losing his mind. He feared how his son (I think in his 40s at the time) would react to losing his father to either death or a permanent stay in a hospital. Times were different back then and I don't think the disabled had the support systems they have today in situations like that.

Even in this day and age, that can be an emotional scar that never goes away.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline Skeever

  • Posts: 2879
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2021, 12:00:29 PM »
Well, just from my experience my parents were teaching me as a teen fiscal responsibility.  You want a car, he bought it all. A car, 1 year of insurance and my 1st tank of gas.  He then showed me how much this all cost in a year, what I needed to put away weekly and a bit more because the cost always goes up.  Told me if I didn't have the money to do this I would be out of luck.

I didn't learn that my uncle molested my cousin until I was in my 20's.  My parents kept that out of my life.  That's more of what I'm talking about.  Never did my dad stop me and start to tell me the gas wars in the last 70's and who was at fault for this.  If I asked he would have a sit down.  That's how it should be.  Grownups putting their grown up issues on children is bad for kids.

It's the exact opposite. Grown ups putting adult problems on kids was Vietnam, which happened in the 70s, but I guess didn't resonate with suburban teenagers as much as I had thought it did initially.

With Greta, its kids putting adult problems on adults because of the adults don't seem to be listening or addressing them.

Which goes back to the implication that "even a child can see this is fucked up", which in turn goes back to my problem with this.  It's NOT so simple even a child could see it.   It's a complicated, global phenomenon with many moving parts, not least of which, how do you solve a problem when not every country is in on the solution, or, as is the case in one country, in on ANY solution?

I get it we love our kids, but if the complaint is that "greed is destroying our planet" and yet the complete decimation of that global economy isn't enough to get those in control to move, are we really sure that one strident kid is going to do move the needle? 

It's not really about her to me. And I don't know enough about her to know if she has any good ideas or not. Which is why I've snipped my only comment on her in this thread.

But what I don't agree with is the idea that she, as a teenager, shouldn't be concerned with the outside world, and shouldn't be getting angry about things going on or forming complex opinions about it.

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59297
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2021, 12:06:03 PM »
Skeever, I'm not talking about 16 year olds.  I was talking about youth.  Now in her case, it was the exact opposite.  Her parents did not influence her into this life environmental activism.  But i see many kids today where parents influence 8 year old children into politics, ect...

That's where I was coming at.  Greta was very different. Still, you have to wonder reading the stories or her wondering at 8 years old about global warming and her not eating.  She's just wired differently and I can have compassion when a child shouldn't have the weight of the world on her shoulders that young.  16, totally different. 
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15690
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2021, 12:10:12 PM »
I just question how a teen was able to gain that high of a platform to be able to talk to the world about a major problem that Adults are trying to figure out how to solve...

Since people dismiss when Adults give their perspectives, what makes a child the highly sought out person about this...What gives her the credentials to be able to speak on something like this?

Having her speak just makes me think they are using her only as the...."Listen to this child, she is the future, and you need to listen to her....Won't somebody please think of the children."

My beef is less with her personally than it is with those elevating her to some level of speciality.  Let's not beat around the bush:  when you think the other side - those that oppose your way of thinking - are stupid, ignorant and close-minded, there is a powerful implicit message in "and a child will lead them".   If you don't immediately see the messaging that "even this kid can understand this, so what's your excuse, dumb-ass", then you're not really paying attention to the way these dialogues historically go.

That is mine too. I have no problem with Greta at all. It's more the ones whom gave her the platform and how they are using her and her message for their own benefits and narratives to get what they want. And they are using what you said with "You seriously can't understand, while this child does. Bro, you're a dumbass."

That's why I wonder how she got this kind of platform in the first place, and what made her the special child....

So you all think she's a product of manipulation being guided others? Am I reading that correctly?  ???

No. She has a great message and it should be listened to and heard.

It's that a lot of teens besides her are also just as concerned as Greta. And these teens should be also heard and given a platform to speak as well. Not just Greta....

It's her being the poster child for climate change, when climate change is something that we all should consider regardless of needing a poster child to make us concerned about climate change.

And Climate Change has happened before, and is what made our current geography, as the Earth did not look how it did back then. There were also Ice Ages, and Ages of Draught. All Climate Change.

It's that us humans are now causing the change to shift in a certain way, by what we are doing to the Earth.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline Skeever

  • Posts: 2879
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2021, 12:13:05 PM »
Skeever, I'm not talking about 16 year olds.  I was talking about youth.  Now in her case, it was the exact opposite.  Her parents did not influence her into this life environmental activism.  But i see many kids today where parents influence 8 year old children into politics, ect...

That's where I was coming at.  Greta was very different. Still, you have to wonder reading the stories or her wondering at 8 years old about global warming and her not eating.  She's just wired differently and I can have compassion when a child shouldn't have the weight of the world on her shoulders that young.  16, totally different.

Would you say the same thing about Malala?

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30572
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2021, 12:17:37 PM »
Skeever, I'm not talking about 16 year olds.  I was talking about youth.  Now in her case, it was the exact opposite.  Her parents did not influence her into this life environmental activism.  But i see many kids today where parents influence 8 year old children into politics, ect...

That's where I was coming at.  Greta was very different. Still, you have to wonder reading the stories or her wondering at 8 years old about global warming and her not eating.  She's just wired differently and I can have compassion when a child shouldn't have the weight of the world on her shoulders that young.  16, totally different.
I wonder how many people bent out of shape over Greta think it's peachy-keen to convince their kids that a vengeful and wrathful god requires their unquestioning loyalty. This is just a hunch, but I bet there's some overlap.  :lol
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline XJDenton

  • What a shame
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 7552
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2021, 12:25:32 PM »
She gave a voice to a segment of the populace that is often ignored by the people in charge. Kudos to her.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43016
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2021, 12:26:48 PM »
Family stories fascinate me.  I'm not going to lie:  I'm actually a little upset with my dad; I've been telling him for years to write stuff down, anything, or speak it into a tape recorder (it's hard for him to write sometimes).  He never got around to it and I fear we're running out of time for that.

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43016
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2021, 12:29:40 PM »
Well, just from my experience my parents were teaching me as a teen fiscal responsibility.  You want a car, he bought it all. A car, 1 year of insurance and my 1st tank of gas.  He then showed me how much this all cost in a year, what I needed to put away weekly and a bit more because the cost always goes up.  Told me if I didn't have the money to do this I would be out of luck.

I didn't learn that my uncle molested my cousin until I was in my 20's.  My parents kept that out of my life.  That's more of what I'm talking about.  Never did my dad stop me and start to tell me the gas wars in the last 70's and who was at fault for this.  If I asked he would have a sit down.  That's how it should be.  Grownups putting their grown up issues on children is bad for kids.

It's the exact opposite. Grown ups putting adult problems on kids was Vietnam, which happened in the 70s, but I guess didn't resonate with suburban teenagers as much as I had thought it did initially.

With Greta, its kids putting adult problems on adults because of the adults don't seem to be listening or addressing them.

Which goes back to the implication that "even a child can see this is fucked up", which in turn goes back to my problem with this.  It's NOT so simple even a child could see it.   It's a complicated, global phenomenon with many moving parts, not least of which, how do you solve a problem when not every country is in on the solution, or, as is the case in one country, in on ANY solution?

I get it we love our kids, but if the complaint is that "greed is destroying our planet" and yet the complete decimation of that global economy isn't enough to get those in control to move, are we really sure that one strident kid is going to do move the needle? 

It's not really about her to me. And I don't know enough about her to know if she has any good ideas or not. Which is why I've snipped my only comment on her in this thread.

But what I don't agree with is the idea that she, as a teenager, shouldn't be concerned with the outside world, and shouldn't be getting angry about things going on or forming complex opinions about it.

I'm not being sarcastic, it's a sincere question:  did I miss that?  I don't recall anyone saying she shouldn't have those emotions or form opinions - complex or otherwise - about this issue.  Every kid at some point does that.  Not every kid is thrust in front of microphones while they do it, and not every kid has her words given the weight of geopolitical change (and I don't say that with judgment). 

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59297
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2021, 12:31:47 PM »
Skeever, I'm not talking about 16 year olds.  I was talking about youth.  Now in her case, it was the exact opposite.  Her parents did not influence her into this life environmental activism.  But i see many kids today where parents influence 8 year old children into politics, ect...

That's where I was coming at.  Greta was very different. Still, you have to wonder reading the stories or her wondering at 8 years old about global warming and her not eating.  She's just wired differently and I can have compassion when a child shouldn't have the weight of the world on her shoulders that young.  16, totally different.

Would you say the same thing about Malala?

Let's not go to extremes here.  There was a reason for he being an activist.  Not every kid has the life that many have in other countries free of oppression. 

Skeever, I'm not talking about 16 year olds.  I was talking about youth.  Now in her case, it was the exact opposite.  Her parents did not influence her into this life environmental activism.  But i see many kids today where parents influence 8 year old children into politics, ect...

That's where I was coming at.  Greta was very different. Still, you have to wonder reading the stories or her wondering at 8 years old about global warming and her not eating.  She's just wired differently and I can have compassion when a child shouldn't have the weight of the world on her shoulders that young.  16, totally different.
I wonder how many people bent out of shape over Greta think it's peachy-keen to convince their kids that a vengeful and wrathful god requires their unquestioning loyalty. This is just a hunch, but I bet there's some overlap.  :lol

And so many people do this too.  Bat shit crazy honestly.  :lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30572
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2021, 12:34:33 PM »
Well, just from my experience my parents were teaching me as a teen fiscal responsibility.  You want a car, he bought it all. A car, 1 year of insurance and my 1st tank of gas.  He then showed me how much this all cost in a year, what I needed to put away weekly and a bit more because the cost always goes up.  Told me if I didn't have the money to do this I would be out of luck.

I didn't learn that my uncle molested my cousin until I was in my 20's.  My parents kept that out of my life.  That's more of what I'm talking about.  Never did my dad stop me and start to tell me the gas wars in the last 70's and who was at fault for this.  If I asked he would have a sit down.  That's how it should be.  Grownups putting their grown up issues on children is bad for kids.

It's the exact opposite. Grown ups putting adult problems on kids was Vietnam, which happened in the 70s, but I guess didn't resonate with suburban teenagers as much as I had thought it did initially.

With Greta, its kids putting adult problems on adults because of the adults don't seem to be listening or addressing them.

Which goes back to the implication that "even a child can see this is fucked up", which in turn goes back to my problem with this.  It's NOT so simple even a child could see it.   It's a complicated, global phenomenon with many moving parts, not least of which, how do you solve a problem when not every country is in on the solution, or, as is the case in one country, in on ANY solution?

I get it we love our kids, but if the complaint is that "greed is destroying our planet" and yet the complete decimation of that global economy isn't enough to get those in control to move, are we really sure that one strident kid is going to do move the needle? 

It's not really about her to me. And I don't know enough about her to know if she has any good ideas or not. Which is why I've snipped my only comment on her in this thread.

But what I don't agree with is the idea that she, as a teenager, shouldn't be concerned with the outside world, and shouldn't be getting angry about things going on or forming complex opinions about it.

I'm not being sarcastic, it's a sincere question:  did I miss that?  I don't recall anyone saying she shouldn't have those emotions or form opinions - complex or otherwise - about this issue.  Every kid at some point does that.  Not every kid is thrust in front of microphones while they do it, and not every kid has her words given the weight of geopolitical change (and I don't say that with judgment).
Not every kid wants those things, but some do. Seem to me that we're comparing her to Todd Marinovich, instead of, say, Jordan Rudess. Why?
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Skeever

  • Posts: 2879
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2021, 12:36:55 PM »
Skeever, I'm not talking about 16 year olds.  I was talking about youth.  Now in her case, it was the exact opposite.  Her parents did not influence her into this life environmental activism.  But i see many kids today where parents influence 8 year old children into politics, ect...

That's where I was coming at.  Greta was very different. Still, you have to wonder reading the stories or her wondering at 8 years old about global warming and her not eating.  She's just wired differently and I can have compassion when a child shouldn't have the weight of the world on her shoulders that young.  16, totally different.
I wonder how many people bent out of shape over Greta think it's peachy-keen to convince their kids that a vengeful and wrathful god requires their unquestioning loyalty. This is just a hunch, but I bet there's some overlap.  :lol

Yeah, exactly. In Catholic School nobody cared as long as what you were angry about was Bill Clinton, Roe versus Wade, the terrorists trying to take our lifestyle away, the Disney "gay agenda", Michael Moore, Harry Potter and witchcraft and wizardry, Magic the Gathering cards, ect.

But get mad about racism, the war, pedophile priests, and forget about it. You were getting put on the shit list.

Offline Skeever

  • Posts: 2879
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2021, 12:38:14 PM »
Well, just from my experience my parents were teaching me as a teen fiscal responsibility.  You want a car, he bought it all. A car, 1 year of insurance and my 1st tank of gas.  He then showed me how much this all cost in a year, what I needed to put away weekly and a bit more because the cost always goes up.  Told me if I didn't have the money to do this I would be out of luck.

I didn't learn that my uncle molested my cousin until I was in my 20's.  My parents kept that out of my life.  That's more of what I'm talking about.  Never did my dad stop me and start to tell me the gas wars in the last 70's and who was at fault for this.  If I asked he would have a sit down.  That's how it should be.  Grownups putting their grown up issues on children is bad for kids.

It's the exact opposite. Grown ups putting adult problems on kids was Vietnam, which happened in the 70s, but I guess didn't resonate with suburban teenagers as much as I had thought it did initially.

With Greta, its kids putting adult problems on adults because of the adults don't seem to be listening or addressing them.

Which goes back to the implication that "even a child can see this is fucked up", which in turn goes back to my problem with this.  It's NOT so simple even a child could see it.   It's a complicated, global phenomenon with many moving parts, not least of which, how do you solve a problem when not every country is in on the solution, or, as is the case in one country, in on ANY solution?

I get it we love our kids, but if the complaint is that "greed is destroying our planet" and yet the complete decimation of that global economy isn't enough to get those in control to move, are we really sure that one strident kid is going to do move the needle? 

It's not really about her to me. And I don't know enough about her to know if she has any good ideas or not. Which is why I've snipped my only comment on her in this thread.

But what I don't agree with is the idea that she, as a teenager, shouldn't be concerned with the outside world, and shouldn't be getting angry about things going on or forming complex opinions about it.

I'm not being sarcastic, it's a sincere question:  did I miss that?  I don't recall anyone saying she shouldn't have those emotions or form opinions - complex or otherwise - about this issue.  Every kid at some point does that.  Not every kid is thrust in front of microphones while they do it, and not every kid has her words given the weight of geopolitical change (and I don't say that with judgment).

Pretty sure King is saying kids shouldn't be bothered with it. He said that angry young people make him uncomfortable in general. Could be misinterpreting.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2021, 12:44:58 PM by Skeever »

Offline hefdaddy42

  • Et in Arcadia Ego
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 52785
  • Gender: Male
  • Postwhore Emeritus
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2021, 12:43:20 PM »
With Greta, its kids putting adult problems on adults because of the adults don't seem to be listening or addressing them.

Which goes back to the implication that "even a child can see this is fucked up", which in turn goes back to my problem with this.  It's NOT so simple even a child could see it.   It's a complicated, global phenomenon with many moving parts, not least of which, how do you solve a problem when not every country is in on the solution, or, as is the case in one country, in on ANY solution?
With respect, you're talking about two different things.  You have a problem with someone saying "even a child can see this is fucked up" (which is a true statement), and as evidence you talk about how complicated the solution is.  However, the first statement isn't necessarily ABOUT the solution.  OF COURSE any solution will be super complicated, but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that there is a problem in the first place can be seen by a child.

I get it we love our kids, but if the complaint is that "greed is destroying our planet" and yet the complete decimation of that global economy isn't enough to get those in control to move, are we really sure that one strident kid is going to do move the needle?
One person has always been the linchpin in any social change (Jesus, Ghandi, MLK, etc).  People don't get inspired by committees, they get inspired by individuals.  The fact that she's a kid is almost irrelevant.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

  • I hit things for a living!
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9235
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2021, 12:56:55 PM »
Greta is awesome!  :heart

The hate she gets is sickening.
"I said to Nigel Tufnel, 'The door is open if you want to do anything on this record,' but it turns out Nigel has a phobia about doors." /Derek Smalls

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59297
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2021, 12:58:39 PM »
Well, just from my experience my parents were teaching me as a teen fiscal responsibility.  You want a car, he bought it all. A car, 1 year of insurance and my 1st tank of gas.  He then showed me how much this all cost in a year, what I needed to put away weekly and a bit more because the cost always goes up.  Told me if I didn't have the money to do this I would be out of luck.

I didn't learn that my uncle molested my cousin until I was in my 20's.  My parents kept that out of my life.  That's more of what I'm talking about.  Never did my dad stop me and start to tell me the gas wars in the last 70's and who was at fault for this.  If I asked he would have a sit down.  That's how it should be.  Grownups putting their grown up issues on children is bad for kids.

It's the exact opposite. Grown ups putting adult problems on kids was Vietnam, which happened in the 70s, but I guess didn't resonate with suburban teenagers as much as I had thought it did initially.

With Greta, its kids putting adult problems on adults because of the adults don't seem to be listening or addressing them.

Which goes back to the implication that "even a child can see this is fucked up", which in turn goes back to my problem with this.  It's NOT so simple even a child could see it.   It's a complicated, global phenomenon with many moving parts, not least of which, how do you solve a problem when not every country is in on the solution, or, as is the case in one country, in on ANY solution?

I get it we love our kids, but if the complaint is that "greed is destroying our planet" and yet the complete decimation of that global economy isn't enough to get those in control to move, are we really sure that one strident kid is going to do move the needle? 

It's not really about her to me. And I don't know enough about her to know if she has any good ideas or not. Which is why I've snipped my only comment on her in this thread.

But what I don't agree with is the idea that she, as a teenager, shouldn't be concerned with the outside world, and shouldn't be getting angry about things going on or forming complex opinions about it.

I'm not being sarcastic, it's a sincere question:  did I miss that?  I don't recall anyone saying she shouldn't have those emotions or form opinions - complex or otherwise - about this issue.  Every kid at some point does that.  Not every kid is thrust in front of microphones while they do it, and not every kid has her words given the weight of geopolitical change (and I don't say that with judgment).

Pretty sure King is saying kids shouldn't be bothered with it. He said that angry young people make him uncomfortable in general. Could be misinterpreting.

Kids yes.  Teens no.  Some kids like Malala who are oppressed are in a different boat for what I'm talking about and my environment.  I've been lucky that I didn't live in an area of the world that holds back a person for their sex or race.  But your average kid, let them find their own way. 

I have 2 friends that don't like Republicans.  You can hear their influence on their children early on.  It's not that your can't dislike their politics but how you speak of another person.  That throws you for a loop.  Children shouldn't be aggressive in a mean or vindictive way.

If a child like Grata want's to become an activists and can make any progress on making the world greener than that's great.  There is a difference in how you bring up a child and their thought process.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline Skeever

  • Posts: 2879
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2021, 01:06:40 PM »
All I say to that is being both a young parent and having grown up where most people were the exact opposite of what you mention (I distinctly remember everyone being brainwashed against anything offbeat, alternative, or vaguely left-wing), it stands to reason that the parenting today is just a reaction to the parenting of yesterday. If you didn't want the youth to go around judging people for not being vegans and criticizing cops shooting unarmed black men, many times at their parents approval, maybe the previous generation shouldn't have given their children so many bizarre memories of ridiculous actions in the opposite direction, like when I had to get rid of my Harry Potter books or I was told I couldn't go see Disney's Hercules because it was homosexual. We raised a generation of Christian moralizers and puritans and now we're still the same way even if the Christianity has been replaced with other things.

And that said I do agree with you that there is some kind of reasonable middle ground and I'm definitely not trying to overtly politicize my own son though I guess in the back of my mind I hope he'll be more courageous to live his ideals than I am.

Offline ariich

  • Roulette Supervillain
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27971
  • Gender: Male
  • sexin' you later
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2021, 01:16:47 PM »
My honest thoughts are that she, as a kid, recognizes there is a problem, and also recognizes that adults should be the ones working on that problem but they aren't, so she is saying so.

Seems fairly responsible to me.  Kudos.

Some of you just sound really, really old.
I agree with this.

Also, being passionate about things like this and also having fun aren't mutually exclusive. I find some people's reactions to Greta (and others like her) very odd and hard to understand.


Me personally,  I get turned off when I see a child or a young person this passionate about something so serious.  I always leads me to my anger towards parents who can't let kids be kids.  I know that's on me but I can't help when I see the weight of the world on a young woman who should never have that weight on her at so young of an age.

Well, she's 18 now, and got started a few years ago.

I think perhaps you forget what being a kid is like.

I had several anxieties about the world around me by 12-13 years of age. One example: I was raised Catholic and when news of the scandals broke I became quite angry and vocal about it. Authorities at my Catholic school shut me down, completely. Didn't even want to talk about it. I felt blocked and just doubled own on my problems with religion. This continued for years and year, and it's still highly doubtful that I would raise my own kids in a similar environment now, which almost all stems from that initial experience.

Sure, kids are kids. But treating them like they're dumb doesn't help. Kids have anxieties about the world around them and have complex thoughts about justice and morality. Perhaps treating kids more like adults is the answer.

I think your pressures were not about climate control but the normal things kids have to deal with, fitting in, finding one self's confidence.  There are already enough pressures s a teen to worry about these big, grown up responsibilities that we all have now. 

I miss my youth these days.  The pressure only gets amped up and is there all the time as an adult so kids should be kids.

Besides, like El Barto, I wasn't worrying about th ozone layer.  I was worried what to wear when I go to a party and this girl I had a crush on was going to be there.   :lol
Sure, that was you, but everyone's different. In my teens I went through a phase of worrying about all sorts of things, both societal and philosophical (like what happens when we die. Not climate change, but not entirely dissimilar in principle.

I guess I just don't get why people dislike things they can't relate to themselves.

Ariich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
I be am boner inducing.

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59297
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2021, 01:25:18 PM »
How old are you Skeever? I'm 53.  I don't remember the  brainwashed against anything offbeat, alternative, or vaguely left-wing.  I wanted to paint, play sports, write poetry, play guitar my parents were all for it.  None of the neighborhoods talked about that at all.  Now, I hung out with friends of many ethnicities, they were just friends and we just played baseball, basketball ect...  They invited me to their house and I the same. 

I only learned in my teens of segregation.  I was the 1st generation not to go to separate schools.  I'm glad that did not happen.


Rich,  It's easy.  I've seen so many parents ruin their kids (My nephew & nieces) but making them act like adults.  You are coming for a logical side.  Thinking about how you grew up. I can assume your parents were very responsive to your thoughts and needs as a kid and into your teens.  They allowed you to be expressive.

I've seen the opposite, where the kid took on adult responsibilities and that has molded my opinion that kids should be kids.  It's 2 very different areas where, the adults that are good parents nourish their child.  Allow them to grow and expand mentally.  I've seen my nephew go to jail because he had no help, no boundaries. Ignorant to wrong and right.  Not wanting to expand his learning. Because he had to be the adult early on.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline WildRanger

  • Posts: 1301
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2021, 01:36:55 PM »
I don't think teens/kids being into politics or politically active is a good thing at all.
You all know what happened in Norway in 2011, the whole world was in shock back then.
One extremist sick fucker Breivik committed a massacre on the island Utoya where he killed 69 people and out of those 69 people, 55 were under 20 (2 - aged 14, 7 - aged 15, 8 - aged 16, 16 - aged 17, 17 - aged 18 and 5 - aged 19). All those teens were members of Norwegian Labour Party.
If they weren't politically active they would be ALIVE and not the targets of one idiotic extremist!





Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30572
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2021, 01:41:24 PM »
I don't think teens/kids being into politics or politically active is a good thing at all.
You all know what happened in Norway in 2011, the whole world was in shock back then.
One extremist sick fucker Breivik committed a massacre on the island Utoya where he killed 69 people and out of those 69 people, 55 were under 20 (2 - aged 14, 7 - aged 15, 8 - aged 16, 16 - aged 17, 17 - aged 18 and 5 - aged 19). All those teens were members of Norwegian Labour Party.
If they weren't politically active they would be ALIVE and not the targets of one idiotic extremist!
And if 2000 people in the WTC hadn't been normal, everyday Americans doing normal everyday American shit they'd still be alive. Is this how it works?
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline ariich

  • Roulette Supervillain
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 27971
  • Gender: Male
  • sexin' you later
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2021, 01:41:48 PM »
Rich,  It's easy.  I've seen so many parents ruin their kids (My nephew & nieces) but making them act like adults.  You are coming for a logical side.  Thinking about how you grew up. I can assume your parents were very responsive to your thoughts and needs as a kid and into your teens.  They allowed you to be expressive.
Somewhat, but actually they were generally pretty strict and my mum in particular made it very clear what she expected of us. But anyway that's not really what I'm talking about, as I explain below.

Quote
I've seen the opposite, where the kid took on adult responsibilities and that has molded my opinion that kids should be kids.  It's 2 very different areas where, the adults that are good parents nourish their child.  Allow them to grow and expand mentally.  I've seen my nephew go to jail because he had no help, no boundaries. Ignorant to wrong and right.  Not wanting to expand his learning. Because he had to be the adult early on.
Sure, I agree with most of that, but there's a bit that stands out as jarring from the rest. You say you think parents should support and nourish their child, allow them to express their own interests, let them grow naturally, in their own way. That's all great, I agree. But then you say that "kids should be kids" whether they want to or not, which is inconsistent.

My understanding is that Thunberg is self-driven, rather than pushed by her parents.

My comments before weren't about pushy parents, they were about the kids themselves.

Ariich is a freak, or somehow has more hours in the day than everyone else.
I be am boner inducing.

Offline WildRanger

  • Posts: 1301
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2021, 01:45:40 PM »
I don't think teens/kids being into politics or politically active is a good thing at all.
You all know what happened in Norway in 2011, the whole world was in shock back then.
One extremist sick fucker Breivik committed a massacre on the island Utoya where he killed 69 people and out of those 69 people, 55 were under 20 (2 - aged 14, 7 - aged 15, 8 - aged 16, 16 - aged 17, 17 - aged 18 and 5 - aged 19). All those teens were members of Norwegian Labour Party.
If they weren't politically active they would be ALIVE and not the targets of one idiotic extremist!
And if 2000 people in the WTC hadn't been normal, everyday Americans doing normal everyday American shit they'd still be alive. Is this how it works?

You can't compare those two situations, because they're quite different.


Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59297
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2021, 01:47:38 PM »
Rich, how many kids think about being green?  Think about air pollution?  I think the percentage is very low.  I'm talking young kids, not teenagers. Now most parents will talk about it and not push there kid to be an activist.  That's what I mean by saying let kids be kids.  Now if a kid says I want to do something about it then you nurture that child and let them expand in what they do in a small way.  There is a difference from helping a young child learn and grow or pushing them into your grown up agenda. 

Yes, reading about Greta let me see that she wanted to do more and it actually helped her.  That is a great thing.  She is a rare occurrence.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline Skeever

  • Posts: 2879
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2021, 01:52:52 PM »
How old are you Skeever? I'm 53.  I don't remember the  brainwashed against anything offbeat, alternative, or vaguely left-wing.  I wanted to paint, play sports, write poetry, play guitar my parents were all for it.  None of the neighborhoods talked about that at all.  Now, I hung out with friends of many ethnicities, they were just friends and we just played baseball, basketball ect...  They invited me to their house and I the same.

I'm 35.  And I was raised around adults who acted exactly like what people in this thread claim Greta to be - judgmental, moralizing, indignant, angry. etc. Only then, it was the conservative Christians. These human tendencies aren't "right or left", just basic human responses to the unknown. If it's not in relation to climate change, it's something else. We can't expect the youth to act better than the examples we uphold ourselves. I wonder how many people who dislike Greta because of the way she talks about issues would have been running to the defense of Nug or Rush Limbaugh's defense in the other threads, or have Tucker on at night, or were able to "hold their nose" and vote for Trump. I would imagine that the answer is "most". Examples like that set by the adults have a tendency of trickling down toward the youth when they develop their own responses to the world.

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59297
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2021, 01:55:58 PM »
How old are you Skeever? I'm 53.  I don't remember the  brainwashed against anything offbeat, alternative, or vaguely left-wing.  I wanted to paint, play sports, write poetry, play guitar my parents were all for it.  None of the neighborhoods talked about that at all.  Now, I hung out with friends of many ethnicities, they were just friends and we just played baseball, basketball ect...  They invited me to their house and I the same.

I'm 35.  And I was raised around adults who acted exactly like what people in this thread claim Greta to be - judgmental, moralizing, indignant, angry. etc. Only then, it was the conservative Christians. These human tendencies aren't "right or left", just basic human responses to the unknown. If it's not in relation to climate change, it's something else. I wonder how many people who dislike Greta because of the way she talks about issues would have been running to the Nug or Rush Limbaugh's defense in the other threads. I would imagine that the answer is "most".

Reminds me of my mom.  My grandmother told my grandfather that if he went to my mother's wedding that she would divorce him.  My Aunts and Uncles to my grandmother to fly a kite.  I had an easy childhood because my mom didn't want to be like her mother as a parent.  Sounds like you as well.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34212
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2021, 02:08:12 PM »
I know very little of her to form any real opinion.  I'm sure she means well and all that.

What I don't like is how the media uses a child to push a narrative.  I'm not being specific about climate change or any one thing or person.  I just feel like it's wrong to put a child into such a controversial spotlight.  I think it puts emotion into an issue that shouldn't need any more of it.  And I feel like when I read negative opinions on a child that this is exactly why the media should not spotlight children in these cases.  Grown adults should not have such strong negative views on a child for their thoughts (not speaking of anyone here, I didn't even read through the thread). 

Offline Skeever

  • Posts: 2879
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2021, 02:09:38 PM »
How old are you Skeever? I'm 53.  I don't remember the  brainwashed against anything offbeat, alternative, or vaguely left-wing.  I wanted to paint, play sports, write poetry, play guitar my parents were all for it.  None of the neighborhoods talked about that at all.  Now, I hung out with friends of many ethnicities, they were just friends and we just played baseball, basketball ect...  They invited me to their house and I the same.

I'm 35.  And I was raised around adults who acted exactly like what people in this thread claim Greta to be - judgmental, moralizing, indignant, angry. etc. Only then, it was the conservative Christians. These human tendencies aren't "right or left", just basic human responses to the unknown. If it's not in relation to climate change, it's something else. I wonder how many people who dislike Greta because of the way she talks about issues would have been running to the Nug or Rush Limbaugh's defense in the other threads. I would imagine that the answer is "most".

Reminds me of my mom.  My grandmother told my grandfather that if he went to my mother's wedding that she would divorce him.  My Aunts and Uncles to my grandmother to fly a kite.  I had an easy childhood because my mom didn't want to be like her mother as a parent.  Sounds like you as well.

I wish, lol.

My Dad was into some serious NeoNazi/Skinhead stuff that he indoctrinated me with very early. I learned my lesson (he did too), but the sting of being lined up to give a good ol' Seig Heil remains.

Later, after the Nazi phase, when I was little my grandparents used to go to Disney every year and would offer to take us, but my parents never let us go once because "Disney spread homosexuality". My and my brother used to make jokes and sing songs about it using words much stronger than that and my Dad would laugh and join in. When I finally developed my own views I would fight with my parents about it pretty often.

When I was older in gradeschool I had to get rid of my Harry Potter books and Magic cards as well as Final Fantasy games because my parents decided that it was supporting witchcraft and wizardry. So I did, even though I thought it was stupid.

The Catholic Church scandal happened some time later closer to late grade-school and highschool. I decided I wasn't going to our church anymore. I was screamed at, forced to go unless I wanted all my privileges and possessions taken away, and gaslit (my Mom didn't speak to me for like 2 weeks when I told her that I was no longer a Catholic).

And so much more that I can't even think of.

So I know all about awful parenting that involves a lot of politicizing kids and cultivating radical worldviews in the children. When I think about people who complain because their parents entertain their children's genuine instincts to try and make the world better, I just laugh and think about how my own parents have needed to be drug into the modern world kicking and screaming.

Online King Postwhore

  • Couch Potato
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 59297
  • Gender: Male
  • Take that Beethoven, you deaf bastard!!
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2021, 02:30:11 PM »
Hot damn.  See, that's what I'm worried about young kids though some like you Skeever fight what was taught. 
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
"Oh, I am definitely a jackass!" - TAC

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43016
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2021, 03:20:33 PM »
With Greta, its kids putting adult problems on adults because of the adults don't seem to be listening or addressing them.

Which goes back to the implication that "even a child can see this is fucked up", which in turn goes back to my problem with this.  It's NOT so simple even a child could see it.   It's a complicated, global phenomenon with many moving parts, not least of which, how do you solve a problem when not every country is in on the solution, or, as is the case in one country, in on ANY solution?
With respect, you're talking about two different things.  You have a problem with someone saying "even a child can see this is fucked up" (which is a true statement), and as evidence you talk about how complicated the solution is.  However, the first statement isn't necessarily ABOUT the solution.  OF COURSE any solution will be super complicated, but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that there is a problem in the first place can be seen by a child.

No, I actually said SEEING it is complicated; the phenomenon.   It's NOT something you just "see" necessarily.  In any event, that's not the hill I want to die on; the part that is bothersome, has been since day one and isn't limited to Greta, is the insistance that anyone that doesn't agree is "stupid".   See below...

Quote
I get it we love our kids, but if the complaint is that "greed is destroying our planet" and yet the complete decimation of that global economy isn't enough to get those in control to move, are we really sure that one strident kid is going to do move the needle?
One person has always been the linchpin in any social change (Jesus, Ghandi, MLK, etc).  People don't get inspired by committees, they get inspired by individuals.  The fact that she's a kid is almost irrelevant.

No matter how much I like or admire her, she's not Jesus and she's not Ghandi.  So beyond that, if someone gets inspiration, wow, that's great.  Love it, and no argument.   My position is hard, because there are multiple levels here.  It's not black and white.   If she was my daughter, I'd be proud.  If she was my daughter I would be concerned that she was not putting all her eggs in one basket.   If she was my daughter I'd be scared to death at the weight that OTHERS are implicitly putting on her shoulders.   And that's where my positivity starts to wane.  I'm cynical when it comes to the way many/most people have taken to handling these types of issues.   There's a glaring and increasing lack of perspective and pragmatism in the way these issues are argued.  I would worry that she doesn't quite yet have the worldliness to accomodate that and to answer that.

Online MirrorMask

  • Posts: 13328
  • Gender: Male
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2021, 03:22:26 PM »
I don't think teens/kids being into politics or politically active is a good thing at all.
You all know what happened in Norway in 2011, the whole world was in shock back then.
One extremist sick fucker Breivik committed a massacre on the island Utoya where he killed 69 people and out of those 69 people, 55 were under 20 (2 - aged 14, 7 - aged 15, 8 - aged 16, 16 - aged 17, 17 - aged 18 and 5 - aged 19). All those teens were members of Norwegian Labour Party.
If they weren't politically active they would be ALIVE and not the targets of one idiotic extremist!

Did you... did you just blame people for being the chosen victims of a terrorist?
I use my sig to pimp some bands from Italy! Check out Elvenking (Power / Folk metal), Folkstone (Rock / Medieval metal), Arcana Opera (Gothic/Noir/Heavy metal) and the beautiful voice of Elisa!

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 43016
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2021, 03:36:55 PM »


I guess I just don't get why people dislike things they can't relate to themselves.

That's 99% of American politics right there, and I'm not kidding.  Look at any thread here and you'll find a comment to that effect. COVID. Racism. Trump. Clinton. That's the very essence of "us versus them".  It's not even AGREEMENT, it's just acknowledging that people can view the same scenario in two different ways.   Half the responses here are on that level.   There are a couple references here to the "hate" that Greta is facing.  Maybe from the outside world; I don't follow her or the responses to her, but there's no hate in this thread.  If anything it's cautious concern more than anything.  I know I've never said anything bad about her personally; I just worry about her and the maw of activist politics in 2021.

Offline WildRanger

  • Posts: 1301
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2021, 03:41:43 PM »
I don't think teens/kids being into politics or politically active is a good thing at all.
You all know what happened in Norway in 2011, the whole world was in shock back then.
One extremist sick fucker Breivik committed a massacre on the island Utoya where he killed 69 people and out of those 69 people, 55 were under 20 (2 - aged 14, 7 - aged 15, 8 - aged 16, 16 - aged 17, 17 - aged 18 and 5 - aged 19). All those teens were members of Norwegian Labour Party.
If they weren't politically active they would be ALIVE and not the targets of one idiotic extremist!

Did you... did you just blame people for being the chosen victims of a terrorist?

Nah. I just gave one example as explanation why teens/kids shouldn't be politically active.
When it comes to politics there is TOO MUCH HATE and there is some SICK HATE that would drive someone to kill. Yep, it's the horrible thing but that shit happens. We don't live in the ideal world.





« Last Edit: April 27, 2021, 03:54:08 PM by WildRanger »

Offline Harmony

  • Posts: 2947
  • Gender: Female
Re: Your honest thoughts on Greta Thunberg?
« Reply #69 on: April 27, 2021, 03:42:01 PM »
The hate is real.  (not here)

Go on Twitter and read the comments under anything she posts.  ANYTHING she posts.  Everything she posts.  Read any post on anyone's board ABOUT her and you'll get it, no holds barred.

If I were her parent, I'd be worried some nut job is planning to blow her head off for having the audacity to speak out on climate change.  That is the level of hate she gets.

Her parents too, BTW.

Just another member of Gaia's intramural baseball squad