80s Battle: Dokken vs. Lynch Mob

[bosk1]

Caught a random George Lynch concert on YouTube the other day when searching for some stuff, and then that led to some footage of George and Don playing together a little while back.  And I just to thinking about when the split happened.  The resulting music, to me, told a lot about the musical direction in Dokken.  Don's solo stuff sounded a lot like Dokken musically.  George's stuff in Lynch Mob was different.  It was bluesier.  It was experimental.  It was just different.  I think both wrote some pretty good songs through the years.  Don's stuff was more slick and commercial.  There was definitely a Dokken sound, and it was the kind of stuff you would expect to find on radio and MTV.  George seemed like to play whatever fed his muse, no matter where it took him. 

So, all that said, which do you prefer, and why?

[TAC]

I've never heard a Lynch Mob album. I'm sure I've heard a song or two along the way.

[wolfking]

Both bands have flaws IMO but Dokken wins this, quite comfortably.

[Grappler]

Dokken.  Don's voice back then was amazing.

[HOF]

I’ve heard one Lynch Mob song I think. Voted Dokken because I do like a lot of their stuff, but can’t really compare the two adequately.

[Stadler]

It's an odd thing; I never got into Dokken.  My friend in high school - the guitar player in my band (or, if you ask him, I was the singer in HIS band) - was way into Dokken.  We even played one song for a while ("Into The Fire"). And I did really like the live version of "Paris Is Burning" from the debut (Breaking The Chain, right?)   But I have a hard time getting past Dokken's voice.  It just didn't do anything for me.  Then when it came out he was sort of a dick, I just never bothered digging in.   Then when Lynch Mob came out, it seemed like there was a revolving door of vocalists, none of whom really captured my attention long enough to stick around.   I'm sure there is good music somewhere in there, but I've not really connected to it myself.

[TAC]

I never had a problem with Don's voice. My issue with the band is that I always thought they needed a rhythm guitarist to fill out their sound. I mean, some of their songs, you don't feel that way. I love Breaking The Chains (the song), but when I actually got the album, I felt like it was a sonic house of cards.

[HOF]

I will say the one Don Dokken solo song I’ve heard, “Mirror Mirror” is excellent.

[bl5150]

I will say the one Don Dokken solo song I’ve heard, “Mirror Mirror” is excellent.

Killer band...........Don , John Norum , Peter Baltes, Billy White (who upstages Norum) , Mikkey Dee.   A shame it only lasted one album.

As far as the question at hand , I voted Dokken.   I like me some Lynch Mob (mostly the first two) but as a body of work the Dokken catalogue easily.

[Kwyjibo]

Have to give this to Dokken.

Wicked Sensation is a killer record, but the rest of Lynch Mob's output is very sketchy. Dokken has a lot of clunkers as well but up to and including Back For The Atack they put out some solid records.

[HOF]

Dokken’s Dysfunctional is where it’s at. That’s a really great album where the whole band was really on. Kind of an Alice In Chains/King’s X vibe (I’ve heard people say Danzig too but not that familiar with his music), but it’s so good.

[bosk1]

I thought Dysfunctional was outstanding.  Back for the Attack was pretty incredible too.  That was the album that got me into them back in the '80s after their prior work did little for me.  They are definitely one of those bands where I never felt the need to be a completist, and if I could just have Back for the Attack, Beast from the East, and Dysfunctional in my collection, I would be content.

[Stadler]

So Wild Ranger should start a poll?  "Bands where you only like THREE of their albums"?   

[ShadowWalker]

Caught a random George Lynch concert on YouTube the other day when searching for some stuff, and then that led to some footage of George and Don playing together a little while back.  And I just to thinking about when the split happened.  The resulting music, to me, told a lot about the musical direction in Dokken.  Don's solo stuff sounded a lot like Dokken musically.  George's stuff in Lynch Mob was different.  It was bluesier.  It was experimental.  It was just different.  I think both wrote some pretty good songs through the years.  Don's stuff was more slick and commercial.  There was definitely a Dokken sound, and it was the kind of stuff you would expect to find on radio and MTV.  George seemed like to play whatever fed his muse, no matter where it took him. 

So, all that said, which do you prefer, and why?

As much a George Lynch fan boy I am, his Lynch Mob catalog can be a bit hit or miss, whereas he really has only one dud with Dokken (Shadowlife). It's not even close that I would take his Dokken tenure over his Lynch Mob output. I give Lynch a lot of credit for his work with various artists, his taking chances and not just always trying to recreate the vibe of Wicked Sensation. But there was magic in those first five Dokken albums that he (or even Don Dokken solo) has not been able to capture post Dysfunctional.

[kirksnosehair]

Lynch Mob's "Wicked Sensation" is a pretty great recording, but Dokken all the way on this.  Just too many great songs and as others have said, that voice was just incredible in the 80's. 

[EPICVIEW]

Dokken    his voice is Dokken    I like Lynch but ,,,,,

[pg1067]

I've never heard a Lynch Mob album. I'm sure I've heard a song or two along the way.

Dokken    his voice is Dokken    I like Lynch but ,,,,,

Both of these, and I'll add in a comment that Jeff Pilson's backing vocals elevated Dokken's best songs.

[EPICVIEW]

I've never heard a Lynch Mob album. I'm sure I've heard a song or two along the way.

Dokken    his voice is Dokken    I like Lynch but ,,,,,

Both of these, and I'll add in a comment that Jeff Pilson's backing vocals elevated Dokken's best songs.

Im trying to get into The End Machine  ,,,, cant say it blows me away

[Stadler]

I'm not being smart or sarcastic; honest question: those praising Don's voice.  Can you point me at something?  I've said I liked Paris Is Burning, and I sang "Into The Fire" in my band, but there's nothing there that blows me away ala some of the other stuff I was listening to at the time (Paul Stanley, Ron Dio, Rob Halford, Bruce Dickinson, Randy Jackson, Joe Lynn Turner, Dee Snider). 

[EPICVIEW]

I'm not being smart or sarcastic; honest question: those praising Don's voice.  Can you point me at something?  I've said I liked Paris Is Burning, and I sang "Into The Fire" in my band, but there's nothing there that blows me away ala some of the other stuff I was listening to at the time (Paul Stanley, Ron Dio, Rob Halford, Bruce Dickinson, Randy Jackson, Joe Lynn Turner, Dee Snider).

im not saying his voice is great ( I like his voice a lot ) but its what makes Dokken sound like Dokken, 

[bosk1]

I'll add that, for me, Don's voice was NOT what eventually pulled me in.  I mean, nothing wrong with it.  But it was just one component, and not the primary one.  If I had to pick one, it would be George's playing.  And that's what hooked me when I first "dropped the needle" (not literally--it was a cassette) on Back for the Attack.  Songs like Kiss of Death, Dream Warriors, and Mr. Scary were just SO rifftastic.  And looking at the writing credits, Lynch is the primary songwriter on those and a lot of the other songs that I consider favorites.

Transitioning that fact over to Lynch Mob, for what I liked most about both bands, it's tough for me to NOT pick Lynch Mob over Dokken on the strength of the first two Lynch Mob albums.  To me, it comes down to the fact that I really like George's riffs and his riff-based writing, whether in Dokken our out on his own.  I've seen a few videos of George and of other breaking down Mr. Scary and Wicked Sensation, and I basically had two reactions:  (1) "Yeah, that makes sense.  That is EXACTLY what I love about these songs."  And (2) "Wow, there is a lot more going on here than I realized, and it's some pretty cool songwriting.  There's a lot of stuff I really love here that I never consciously realized." 

The above really is a lot of what motivated me to make the thread.

On another note, back to Don's vocals (@Stadler):  Even though I said I don't love his voice, I do enjoy his singing.  He has (or, I should say, "had," because his voice is totally shot) a really smooth vocal delivery style.  Because of that, his vocal parts are deceptively high.  I didn't realize until I tried covering some of their material how hard it actually is to sing, because it sounds simpler and not as high than it actually is.  And, probably to Don's detriment, it usually stays in a pretty narrow range up high.  I suspect that he just didn't know how to write smarter vocal melodies, and that him writing all these parts that were so consistently high and within a narrow range, such that singing those songs doesn't really allow the voice to rest AT ALL was likely one of the factors that led to his vocal deterioration (add in partying, and probably some bad technique). 

[Kwyjibo]

George's guitar was as important to Dokken as was Don's voice. It's the combination of their songwriting skills (and a solid rhythm section) that made them good imo.

And on their own, Lynch's guitar playing is much more special than Don's singing.

[kirksnosehair]

Yeah, I'm not saying Dokken was a one-man outfit.  In fact, to me, if there's no George Lynch there is no Dokken.  That said, Don was an excellent vocalist in his prime.  And here's a video that demonstrates how a good harmony vocalist can elevate a lead vocalist's performance. 




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo1sAi4Mo6o

[HOF]

In terms of singing ability, I always thought Don was a cut above most of the hair metal guys in that sort of LA scene (guys like Vince Neal or Bret Michaels or Stephen Pearcy, or heck Axl Rose). I can see not liking his voice (that’s taste), and he’s really dreadful now, but back in the day I thought he had a really good voice.

[kirksnosehair]

Reminds me a bit of Roy Kahn from Kamelot and Conception

[Stadler]

In terms of singing ability, I always thought Don was a cut above most of the hair metal guys in that sort of LA scene (guys like Vince Neal or Bret Michaels or Stephen Pearcy, or heck Axl Rose). I can see not liking his voice (that’s taste), and he’s really dreadful now, but back in the day I thought he had a really good voice.

Other than Axl, it shouldn't surprise anyone that any Motley Crue or Ratt that I like is IN SPITE OF Vince Neil or Stephen Pearcy.  I avoid these terms like the plague, but for purposes of clarity, I think they both are flat out BAD singers.   I loved the Crue show I saw in '87 (Dr. Feelgood) and that was even WITH Neil croaking out the first and last word of each line and fuzzing the middle off key for most of the show. 

I'm really not calling out anyone on Dokken, I'm just interested in checking them out.  I haven't seen it yet, but it wouldn't be the first time I was 20 years late to a party!   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo1sAi4Mo6o

See, that was excellent; I dug that.  I think he sounded really good; lot of echo, but that was the thing back then (listen to any Priest show from about '81 to at least up through Ram It Down; maybe to this day for all I know).   I've got to look; I saw that tour, but I don't remember seeing Dokken.

[emtee]

Big fan of both. Back in the day, they were top 15 bands for me. Would love a Lynch/Portnoy collab. Dokken wins though. Partly just because of volume. I still get in the occasional mood for both bands and will sometimes spin the discographies in totality.

[HOF]

In terms of singing ability, I always thought Don was a cut above most of the hair metal guys in that sort of LA scene (guys like Vince Neal or Bret Michaels or Stephen Pearcy, or heck Axl Rose). I can see not liking his voice (that’s taste), and he’s really dreadful now, but back in the day I thought he had a really good voice.

Other than Axl, it shouldn't surprise anyone that any Motley Crue or Ratt that I like is IN SPITE OF Vince Neil or Stephen Pearcy.  I avoid these terms like the plague, but for purposes of clarity, I think they both are flat out BAD singers.   I loved the Crue show I saw in '87 (Dr. Feelgood) and that was even WITH Neil croaking out the first and last word of each line and fuzzing the middle off key for most of the show. 

I'm really not calling out anyone on Dokken, I'm just interested in checking them out.  I haven't seen it yet, but it wouldn't be the first time I was 20 years late to a party!   

Well, yeah I guess that’s a low bar. More saying that Don was more of a Geoff Tate type than your typical hair metal guy.

[KevShmev]

I loved the hits by Dokken back in '87, with Burning Like a Flame being one of my favorites songs at the time, but while that one and Dream Warriors aren't as enjoyable for me as they used to be, I still love Heaven Sent like crazy.  That is one of my go-to songs when I am in the mood for some later 80's hair rock/metal. 

[Lowdz]

I will say the one Don Dokken solo song I’ve heard, “Mirror Mirror” is excellent.

Killer band...........Don , John Norum , Peter Baltes, Billy White (who upstages Norum) , Mikkey Dee.   A shame it only lasted one album.

As far as the question at hand , I voted Dokken.   I like me some Lynch Mob (mostly the first two) but as a body of work the Dokken catalogue easily.

Dokken were great for three albums, and Don’s solo album. Lynch Mob were great for two. Lynch went all weird in the 90s and 2000s but he’s getting there again with the End Machine and Dirty Shirley albums.

[emtee]

I'm almost embarrassed and, obviously hopelessly out of touch because I had no frickin clue that The End Machine was a band. Not only that, but 3/4 of Dokken and one of the vocalists for Lunch Mob. Just spun it. I love it! Glad I popped back into this thread.

[HOF]

I'm almost embarrassed and, obviously hopelessly out of touch because I had no frickin clue that The End Machine was a band. Not only that, but 3/4 of Dokken and one of the vocalists for Lunch Mob. Just spun it. I love it! Glad I popped back into this thread.

I usually take a late lunch to avoid the Lunch Mob.

[emtee]

That's what I get for posting from my phone

[pg1067]

I'm almost embarrassed and, obviously hopelessly out of touch because I had no frickin clue that The End Machine was a band. Not only that, but 3/4 of Dokken and one of the vocalists for Lunch Mob. Just spun it. I love it! Glad I popped back into this thread.

I usually take a late lunch to avoid the Lunch Mob.

 

[The Realm]

I absolutely love early Dokken, especially Under Lock and Key and Back for the Attack. They are just classic albums to me, and include some amazing guitar solos by Lynch. Also, loved Dons voice.

I also really love the first Lynch Mob album, worth a listen for anyone who likes Dokken and hasn't given it a chance. However, I haven't really gotten into any other Lynch Mob stuff.