2021 NFL Thread v. Super Bowl 56: Rams vs Bengals

[Skeever]

Been thinking recently about quarterbacks, an aspect of which I hope we can keep here instead of the P/R forum.

Anyway, I've noticed that virtually almost 100% of NFL QBs (which is the highest position one can attain in team sports) come from stable 2-parent families with strong father figures. And usually conservative families. Now I realize the notion of Dad is pooh-poohed in modern society but the importance of a great Dad cannot be overstated. Anyway. I haven't noticed such a strong correlation of these factors with any other position or sport in general. So can we discuss the whys/hows without having to move the topic? I welcome your insight.

Is it as simple as strong father figure = development of leadership skills necessary for the position? What about all the other needed skills?

I think the things you are mentioning ("two parents households", "conservative values", "going to church") could be part of it but you're forgetting to factor in economic factors like money. A lot of these come from it. I'm sure things can get a bit circular here, but I think it holds up that all of the above circumstances are easier to maintain when you've got comfortably white-collar parents like most NFL QBs seem to. And all that, in addition to the talent and hard work, is what gets a greater ratio of Zach Wilson's noticed for the prestige positions.

This may be problematic, but when I see a white player on the field I often just assume they came from money to begin with. And I haven't seen many things that made me challenge those assumptions.

[hefdaddy42]

Been thinking recently about quarterbacks, an aspect of which I hope we can keep here instead of the P/R forum.

Anyway, I've noticed that virtually almost 100% of NFL QBs (which is the highest position one can attain in team sports) come from stable 2-person families with strong father figures. And usually conservative families. Now I realize the notion of Dad is pooh-poohed in modern society but the importance of a great Dad cannot be overstated. Anyway. I haven't noticed such a strong correlation of these factors with any other position or sport in general. So can we discuss the whys/hows without having to move the topic? I welcome your insight.

Is it as simple as strong father figure = development of leadership skills necessary for the position? What about all the other needed skills?

Did you do the breakdown on the elite from other positions? What do you think the typical upbringing for a wide receiver or cornerback are? I suspect that what you're going to find is that there are other factors, one really big one, that fit into the puzzle.

I assume you mean race? Point taken.

I assumed he meant wealth.

Maybe it's just that libs were too busy experimenting with drugs to take sports seriously?

You want to keep this out of P/R but then drop that bullshit?

[Stadler]

Been thinking recently about quarterbacks, an aspect of which I hope we can keep here instead of the P/R forum.

Anyway, I've noticed that virtually almost 100% of NFL QBs (which is the highest position one can attain in team sports) come from stable 2-parent families with strong father figures. And usually conservative families. Now I realize the notion of Dad is pooh-poohed in modern society but the importance of a great Dad cannot be overstated. Anyway. I haven't noticed such a strong correlation of these factors with any other position or sport in general. So can we discuss the whys/hows without having to move the topic? I welcome your insight.

Is it as simple as strong father figure = development of leadership skills necessary for the position? What about all the other needed skills?

I think the things you are mentioning ("two parents households", "conservative values", "going to church") could be part of it but you're forgetting to factor in economic factors like money. A lot of these come from it. I'm sure things can get a bit circular here, but I think it holds up that all of the above circumstances are easier to maintain when you've got comfortably white-collar parents like most NFL QBs seem to. And all that, in addition to the talent and hard work, is what gets a greater ratio of Zach Wilson's noticed for the prestige positions.

This may be problematic, but when I see a white player on the field I often just assume they came from money to begin with. And I haven't seen many things that made me challenge those assumptions.

I dunno; big problems with the "assume", even if there is empirical evidence to support that. We can start throwing around the assumptions in all directions, and it's only going to serve to inspire angry words and maybe the banhammer.     Even just changing the sport and we've blown up that paradigm wildly. 

I also am not willing to just presumptively point the causation arrow in the direction of "monied white >>>>> stable two-parent families".   It takes no money to love your wife and serve your kids.   Sure, some things are EASIER to do in that capacity, but "I love you, son" is free. 

[Skeever]

Been thinking recently about quarterbacks, an aspect of which I hope we can keep here instead of the P/R forum.

Anyway, I've noticed that virtually almost 100% of NFL QBs (which is the highest position one can attain in team sports) come from stable 2-parent families with strong father figures. And usually conservative families. Now I realize the notion of Dad is pooh-poohed in modern society but the importance of a great Dad cannot be overstated. Anyway. I haven't noticed such a strong correlation of these factors with any other position or sport in general. So can we discuss the whys/hows without having to move the topic? I welcome your insight.

Is it as simple as strong father figure = development of leadership skills necessary for the position? What about all the other needed skills?

I think the things you are mentioning ("two parents households", "conservative values", "going to church") could be part of it but you're forgetting to factor in economic factors like money. A lot of these come from it. I'm sure things can get a bit circular here, but I think it holds up that all of the above circumstances are easier to maintain when you've got comfortably white-collar parents like most NFL QBs seem to. And all that, in addition to the talent and hard work, is what gets a greater ratio of Zach Wilson's noticed for the prestige positions.

This may be problematic, but when I see a white player on the field I often just assume they came from money to begin with. And I haven't seen many things that made me challenge those assumptions.

I dunno; big problems with the "assume", even if there is empirical evidence to support that. We can start throwing around the assumptions in all directions, and it's only going to serve to inspire angry words and maybe the banhammer.     Even just changing the sport and we've blown up that paradigm wildly. 

I also am not willing to just presumptively point the causation arrow in the direction of "monied white >>>>> stable two-parent families".   It takes no money to love your wife and serve your kids.   Sure, some things are EASIER to do in that capacity, but "I love you, son" is free.

You had no problems assuming Dream Team was "right" just a few posts ago.

[El Barto]

I assumed he meant wealth.

Maybe it's just that libs were too busy experimenting with drugs to take sports seriously?

You want to keep this out of P/R but then drop that bullshit?

No I meant race, but in all reality you can't really talk about one without the other in this context.

The fact is that even though he's limited it to a single position of a single sport, there are still too many variables to start trying to show causality. I was going to explain this, but I honestly don't think the OP is particularly interested, so I blew it off.

[Stadler]

Been thinking recently about quarterbacks, an aspect of which I hope we can keep here instead of the P/R forum.

Anyway, I've noticed that virtually almost 100% of NFL QBs (which is the highest position one can attain in team sports) come from stable 2-parent families with strong father figures. And usually conservative families. Now I realize the notion of Dad is pooh-poohed in modern society but the importance of a great Dad cannot be overstated. Anyway. I haven't noticed such a strong correlation of these factors with any other position or sport in general. So can we discuss the whys/hows without having to move the topic? I welcome your insight.

Is it as simple as strong father figure = development of leadership skills necessary for the position? What about all the other needed skills?

I think the things you are mentioning ("two parents households", "conservative values", "going to church") could be part of it but you're forgetting to factor in economic factors like money. A lot of these come from it. I'm sure things can get a bit circular here, but I think it holds up that all of the above circumstances are easier to maintain when you've got comfortably white-collar parents like most NFL QBs seem to. And all that, in addition to the talent and hard work, is what gets a greater ratio of Zach Wilson's noticed for the prestige positions.

This may be problematic, but when I see a white player on the field I often just assume they came from money to begin with. And I haven't seen many things that made me challenge those assumptions.

I dunno; big problems with the "assume", even if there is empirical evidence to support that. We can start throwing around the assumptions in all directions, and it's only going to serve to inspire angry words and maybe the banhammer.     Even just changing the sport and we've blown up that paradigm wildly. 

I also am not willing to just presumptively point the causation arrow in the direction of "monied white >>>>> stable two-parent families".   It takes no money to love your wife and serve your kids.   Sure, some things are EASIER to do in that capacity, but "I love you, son" is free.

You had no problems assuming Dream Team was "right" just a few posts ago.

I had deep problems with it; that's why I said I have no idea if [he's] right or not.  I was just commenting on the idea which was kind of a new one for me.  I can do the same for you, but there's more immediate data that contradicts your position than his and your idea "white = money = success, black = poor = nope" is far more common (if no less substantiated). 

[Skeever]

You already dismissed any data that I could bring up preemptively in your last post while posting an anecdote about how dream team could be on to something in the post before that one so I really don't see the point in going down this road.

I think that Barto is right then there's absolutely a relationship between socioeconomic factors and the type of successes people are able to achieve in life, and socioeconomic factors influence their family life and family values as well. But I also agree that the op wasn't particularly interested since he decided to sink it into the libs in the same breath. Disappointingly to the implicit approval of the forum "centrist".

[Stadler]

You already dismissed any data that I could bring up preemptively in your last post while posting an anecdote about how dream team could be on to something in the post before that one so I really don't see the point in going down this road.

I absolutely did not mean to dismiss any data.  If that's the message I sent, it was inadvertent, and I'm sorry.

I think that Barto is right then there's absolutely a relationship between socioeconomic factors and the type of successes people are able to achieve in life, and socioeconomic factors influence their family life and family values as well. But I also agree that the op wasn't particularly interested since he decided to sink it into the libs in the same breath. Disappointingly to the implicit approval of the forum "centrist".

There's absolutely a socio-economic relationship.  I agree with you on that.  I don't agree with the general wisdom - and to preserve this conversation I will say I am not going to assume to know where you fall in this - that it starts with race, then goes to money, and everything flows from there.   It's a dicey subject, because it's far too easily misconstrued, but I do NOT believe everyone is capable of everything. I do think we are all capable of maximizing our potential (and many don't), but everyone's potential in various areas is not the same.   I don't think we're all budding NFL quarterbacks until reality gets ahold of us.  I don't think we're all budding Jeff Bezos' until
"The Man" beats us down.   TO BE CLEAR: I DON'T THINK RACE IS A VARIABLE HERE - meaning I do NOT think that being "black" is an indicator of whether someone is capable or not.    But just like some people aren't good at math, some people have no rhythm, and some people have no fashion sense, so some people are not inclined to earn or maintain wealth. 

[Skeever]

Yes, agreed...

That's why the question, as originally posed, is so problematic.
There's no use in talking about these issues unless you are able and willing to talk about the intersection of all of them. Just trying to shave off one or two to fit a narrative "he was successful because he went to church", "he was a bad dad because he was poor", etc doesn't get us any closer to the truth. I thought money was an important thing to bring up, as well as race, because those are the two important factors that were left out of the initial question.

[hefdaddy42]

It's kind of a weird thing to bring up at all, in this context.  IMO

[Stadler]

Yes, agreed...

That's why the question, as originally posed, is so problematic.
There's no use in talking about these issues unless you are able and willing to talk about the intersection of all of them. Just trying to shave off one or two to fit a narrative "he was successful because he went to church", "he was a bad dad because he was poor", etc doesn't get us any closer to the truth. I thought money was an important thing to bring up, as well as race, because those are the two important factors that were left out of the initial question.

I won't argue that.  I sort of gave the benefit of the doubt since I didn't see it as shaving it off, but rather incorporating a variable that doesn't often get mentioned.  If you're interpreting this as over-simplifying a complicated issue down to simplistic ideas, I think I'm with you.

[El Barto]

Looks like St. Rodgers has quite a decision to think about, and less than 24 hours to do it. He can opt out of this season, ostensibly because of Covid, and take home ~18m. The decision is irrevocable, though, and has to be made by tomorrow. Whereas sitting out would be rather expensive for him. It'll be interesting to see what he does. He might take this year off, only to find that his market value has dropped come next year. As has been said, this is the nuclear option for him, and it wouldn't surprise me to see him take it. At the same time it probably doesn't help him any in the long term, but I'm not sure anything actually does.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/06/25/aaron-rodgers-does-indeed-have-an-opt-out-silver-bullet-for-2021/

[KevShmev]

Rodgers seems like just enough of a moody prick to opt out and stick it to the Packers organization (and his teammates in the process), but I don't think he will do it.  I almost hope he does, though, as those nimrods who run the Packers deserve to have egg on their faces.

[El Barto]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31770745/agent-requests-wr-nkeal-harry-traded-new-england-patriots

His agent along with every other living being in New England. 

In all fairness, I don't think he's necessarily the bust people have made him out to be, but he certainly doesn't seem to be the type of player that's going to work well in NE's system. I can understand when he didn't click with Brady, a whole lot of receivers never got on with him, but he didn't do anything with Cam under center, either. He does exactly what they hoped he'd do when they drafted him, he'll fight for the ball and he'll run over people if he gets it, but it doesn't look like he'll ever be able to do all of the rest that comes with being a WR. Sadly, I think if there were any good offers he'd already be gone.

[King Postwhore]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31770745/agent-requests-wr-nkeal-harry-traded-new-england-patriots

His agent along with every other living being in New England. 

In all fairness, I don't think he's necessarily the bust people have made him out to be, but he certainly doesn't seem to be the type of player that's going to work well in NE's system. I can understand when he didn't click with Brady, a whole lot of receivers never got on with him, but he didn't do anything with Cam under center, either. He does exactly what they hoped he'd do when they drafted him, he'll fight for the ball and he'll run over people if he gets it, but it doesn't look like he'll ever be able to do all of the rest that comes with being a WR. Sadly, I think if there were any good offers he'd already be gone.

All of New England chuckled today.

[hunnus2000]

Who the "F" is NKeal Hoosie whatzits?   

[King Postwhore]

Who the "F" is NKeal Hoosie whatzits?   

A first round bust.  That's who.

[Stadler]

Belichick:  8
Brady: 7
Harry: 0


I'm good with this announcement.

[Cool Chris]

Richard Sherman booked in local jail. Potential burglary and DV charges.

[King Postwhore]

Sounds like he broke into his own house when he was locked out and fought with police.

[El Barto]

Sounds like he broke into his own house when he was locked out and fought with police.

Nah, that boy snapped. The 911 call said that he did not live there, and they're charging him with a felony for the burglary part. They're also investigating him for a hit and run an hour earlier.

[hunnus2000]

Richard Sherman - convict = Dallas will definitely sign him. 

[King Postwhore]

Sounds like he broke into his own house when he was locked out and fought with police.

Nah, that boy snapped. The 911 call said that he did not live there, and they're charging him with a felony for the burglary part. They're also investigating him for a hit and run an hour earlier.

I read what I typed earlier.  So your info is probably newer.  Holy cow is he fucked.

[El Barto]

Sounds like he broke into his own house when he was locked out and fought with police.

Nah, that boy snapped. The 911 call said that he did not live there, and they're charging him with a felony for the burglary part. They're also investigating him for a hit and run an hour earlier.

I read what I typed earlier.  So your info is probably newer.  Holy cow is he fucked.

Nah, he's rich, popular in the area, and known for charitable work. At least that's what I gather, Chris will have to chime in on that. My hunch is that he'll plead down to some misdemeanors and get probation. Unless, that his, he takes the Michael Irvin approach and makes an ass of himself at his grand jury appearance. 

[King Postwhore]

 

They had to use a K9 to subdue him.  Holy crap.

[TheCountOfNYC]

He always tried to compare himself to Revis. The difference is that Revis had one side of the field on lockdown, while the system will have Sherman on lockdown.

[KevShmev]

I was going to say, you can't get arrested for breaking into your own house, unless Breaking Bad lied to us. 

[El Barto]

It was his in-law's and he was looking for his [presumably estranged] old lady. She described him as drunk and suicidal, so it appears to be a freakout kind of situation. Sounds like he needs counseling more than a run through the CJ system, and The Man will probably be happy to steer it that direction. I suspect he'll be on the hook for the DUI and hit and run, but that's about it.

[Cool Chris]

Nah, he's rich, popular in the area, and known for charitable work. At least that's what I gather, Chris will have to chime in on that.

I got in the car right at 800am, when local sports radio guys do their "Top of the hour news/headlines." There was a definite somber mood from the talking heads. I knew something big went down, not to level of someone dying, but more than "Jamal Adams signs with another team." The radio guys told what the knew, and declined to speculate on what they didn't know, which I respect. But there was a sense of "we really hope this doesn't turn out to be something more serious than it sounds, so until we know more, let's talk about the NBA finals..."

Seattle doesn't have many sports heroes or icons. I supposed Sherman is about as iconic as you can get around here, where we have 2 major sports championships in 50+ years (sorry Storm). If he says all the right things, he should be ok here.

Maybe weird sidenote... they are calling this a DV issue because the residents were his ex-inlaws. Am I hearing that right? When you divorce your spouse, you are no longer related to their parents. So I don't know what this is specifically a "domestic" issue.

[El Barto]

I believe it was his wife, or ex-wife, that called 911. Either way that's a domestic. That said, even if it was the former in-laws, that would probably still qualify. It's not a stranger but rather an at one point family member banging down the door. I haven't read anything today, but from what I gathered from the 911 call the dude's despondent about the breakup of his marriage and he got drunk and had a freakout. Not exactly Menace2Society stuff.

[Cool Chris]

Looks like everything is down to misdemeanors. Burglary charge is gone.

I was being a big cheeky about the "domestic" issue. Sounds like there was some confusion about the status of their relationship, which caused some initial reporting to be inaccurate. I thought there had to be either blood or marriage for an issue to be considered "domestic."

Also sounds like there have been issues brewing beneath the surface for a while now.

[King Postwhore]

So it came out that Tom Brady played on a torn ACL all of last year.  The internet is abuzz that "Here's goes Tom Brady cheating again. 

I honestly think the injury report should be wiped out.  It's only there for the bettors. If a team knew that Brady had that tear they would be teeing off weekly at that knee.  You guys agree or disagree with me on getting rid of the injury report?

[Stadler]

So it came out that Tom Brady played on a torn ACL all of last year.  The internet is abuzz that "Here's goes Tom Brady cheating again. 

I honestly think the injury report should be wiped out.  It's only there for the bettors. If a team knew that Brady had that tear they would be teeing off weekly at that knee.  You guys agree or disagree with me on getting rid of the injury report?

Well, that's the thing; I think it's within a player's purview to protect himself, and if that's one way he does it - by not disclosing the injury in the first place - then that's up to them. 

[TAC]

So it came out that Tom Brady played on a torn ACL all of last year.  The internet is abuzz that "Here's goes Tom Brady cheating again. 

I honestly think the injury report should be wiped out.  It's only there for the bettors. If a team knew that Brady had that tear they would be teeing off weekly at that knee.  You guys agree or disagree with me on getting rid of the injury report?

Well they said it was the MCL.

I'm all for getting rid of the injury report. You're either in or out. But at the same time, I'm curious why a guy is missing a game.

[El Barto]

So it came out that Tom Brady played on a torn ACL all of last year.  The internet is abuzz that "Here's goes Tom Brady cheating again. 

I honestly think the injury report should be wiped out.  It's only there for the bettors. If a team knew that Brady had that tear they would be teeing off weekly at that knee.  You guys agree or disagree with me on getting rid of the injury report?

Is the internet really abuzz about it? Or are we just being told that it is? Either way, now that people think that it is it certainly will be. Just look at the goddamned gypsy moths.

In any case, the interesting part to me is that it was originally a partially torn MCL, and this morning it was a fully torn MCL (which I don't think you could play on). By Monday he will have played the season while battling stage XIII lung cancer which he cured via the TB12 method.

And insofar as the injury report goes, wasn't it originally a problem when NE listed him on it every single week for an undisclosed injury? Either way, I've got no problem with the injury report. Opposing teams need to know who they might be facing. More importantly, the NFL desperately wants gamblers to be able to enjoy the game.