The last “great” album was.....

[Anguyen92]

Hybrid Theory the sound of a bratty spoilt teenager being angry at nothing in particular, barely anything else to it other than empty angst.

Well, that's something to put into perspective given Chester Bennington's passing via suicide in 2017.  Especially, when there were notions that he had some rough mental health issues which stemmed from a rough childhood, etc.

Was that album something that stemmed from teenage angst?  Most likely.  Is it empty?  I don't think that it is.  Is it empty if a lot of people can relate to those songs?

[darkshade]

If we're talking Linkin Park then that Puddle of Mudd album with "She Hates Me", "Blurry", and "Control" belongs in this discussion. I think their songs got played more than LP songs.

[Anguyen92]

That can be quite an argument, but comparing Come Clean (which sold around 5 million copies worldwide, 3 million in the US alone) to Hybrid Theory (which sold 27 million copies worldwide, 10 million in the US alone) is not that quite a fair fight.  Also, I would garner that a lot more people would know In The End by itself (even if they don't know the band name or song name) than Blurry (which I like as well as Control).

[darkshade]

That can be quite an argument, but comparing Come Clean (which sold around 5 million copies worldwide, 3 million in the US alone)) to Hybrid Theory (which sold 27 million copies worldwide, 10 million in the US alone) is not that quite a fair fight.  Also, I would garner that a lot more people would know In The End (even if they don't know the band name or song name) than Blurry (which I like as well as Control).

I don't think either album belongs in this thread.

[Anguyen92]

Well, then no Rock albums post-2000 belongs in this thread if we can't give a nod to Hybrid Theory (I'm not even a huge Linkin Park fan, but that album made a lot of waves).

[darkshade]

Well, then no Rock albums post-2000 belongs in this thread if we can't give a nod to Hybrid Theory (I'm not even a huge Linkin Park fan, but that album made a lot of waves).

Fine by me. Grunge took rock music off life support 30 years ago.

[jammindude]

Remember that I introduced this album because we were talking about albums that transcended their genre. Albums that touched a far wider range of people then would normally be interested in that type of music.

From that premise, Hybrid Theory qualifies...Puddle of Mudd does not. They might sound the same to some people, but obviously, one of these albums resonated with a vastly greater cross section of the populace than anything else from that genre or time period. The other did not.

[Trav86]

Remember that I introduced this album because we were talking about albums that transcended their genre. Albums that touched a far wider range of people then would normally be interested in that type of music.

From that premise, Hybrid Theory qualifies...Puddle of Mudd does not. They might sound the same to some people, but obviously, one of these albums resonated with a vastly greater cross section of the populace than anything else from that genre or time period. The other did not.

I was in High School when these albums came out. Puddle of Mudd was definitely popular with the rock crowd. However, Hybrid Theory was huge.  The jocks loved it, the cheerleaders loved it, the nerds loved it and of course the stoners and the goths. The late 90s-early 2000s is my era. Anyone I know, my age, knows and loves those songs. That is a defining album of that time period.  Above most from that period.

[jammindude]

My wife is 9 years older than me (literally a baby boomer) and she has trouble thinking of ANYTHING past the 90s. But she says she’s positive she knows who Linkin Park is, and even knows their hits.

But that just underlines how far reaching that album was.

I’m not even a LP “fan” per se. and I haven’t even listened to that album at all in at least 5 years. Heck, I’m not even sure I own an actual copy...I think I have a CDR rip somewhere. But I still here those songs everywhere. I hear In the End on the overhead when I’m grocery shopping.  So I’m making an argument for this album based strictly on those definitions.

[darkshade]

I didn't bring up PoM because they sounded the same, they don't. I was just talking about albums from that time period that were insanely popular at the time. However, no one gives af about those albums these days on a general level. At least people still enjoy SOAD's Toxicity 20 years later, but many people do not like or listen to the kind of metal found on that album (as opposed to The Black Album. Anecdotal, but I know plenty of people who don't listen to metal but will listen to that album or other Metallica albums.)

[Trav86]

I didn't bring up PoM because they sounded the same, they don't. I was just talking about albums from that time period that were insanely popular at the time. However, no one gives af about those albums these days on a general level. At least people still enjoy SOAD's Toxicity 20 years later, but many people do not like or listen to the kind of metal found on that album (as opposed to The Black Album. Anecdotal, but I know plenty of people who don't listen to metal but will listen to that album or other Metallica albums.)

I know we’re beating a dead horse here...but I just don’t understand how you’re making this Puddle of Mudd/Linkin Park comparison. I think everyone is talking about a general music fan level, not talking about purely “metal” fans. But...

Come Clean sold about 3 million records in the U.S. and reached #9 on the charts.
Hybrid Theory sold 10.5 million records in the U.S. and reached #2 on the charts.
 
As far as how popular they are now, the best way I see to make a judgement is Spotify.
Puddle of Mudd gets around 3.5 million monthly listeners.
Linkin Park gets around 21 million monthly listeners.

Obviously they were both popular. But POM is nowhere in the same ballpark as LP. You make LIKE them more. But I don’t think that’s the point here.

Also... System of a Down gets half the monthly listeners as Linkin Park. So, I don’t know where you’re getting your info. Unless it’s just you and your friends.

[SoundscapeMN]

I think 1 way to gauge it is if you asked your mother or grandmother, do they know their name? if they do, the point may be valid. Or say, you ask 100 people on the street randomly the same question.

So Puddle of Mudd or Linkin Park actually, does your grandmother know their name?
How many people out of 100 that you randomly asked on the street would know their names?

[Trav86]

I think 1 way to gauge it is if you asked your mother or grandmother, do they know their name? if they do, the point may be valid. Or say, you ask 100 people on the street randomly the same question.

So Puddle of Mudd or Linkin Park actually, does your grandmother know their name?
How many people out of 100 that you randomly asked on the street would know their names?

System of a Down is definitely more popular with grandmothers.

[KevShmev]

The problem with that, too, is why do older people matter more as far as having to know someone? 

Think if this way: ask 100 people under 30 who Beyonce, Justin Beiber or Taylor Swift are, and most or all will have at least heard of them.  Then ask the same people if they know who Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton or The Who, and you will probably get a lot of blank stares. 

This is why I no longer think Stairway to Heaven is the most popular rock song ever, like it was considered for many years.  The opinions of younger folks, like it or not, are a factor here when talking about widespread appeal and popularity, and I feel that songs like Bohemian Rhapsody and Don't Stop Believin' have both surpassed it as far as popularity across all ages go.  My niece (who is 14) and nephew (who is 16) both know both of those songs, and I am pretty sure they have no clue who Led Zeppelin is or what Stairway to Heaven is.

[Trav86]

The problem with that, too, is why do older people matter more as far as having to know someone? 

Think if this way: ask 100 people under 30 who Beyonce, Justin Beiber or Taylor Swift are, and most or all will have at least heard of them.  Then ask the same people if they know who Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton or The Who, and you will probably get a lot of blank stares. 

This is why I no longer think Stairway to Heaven is the most popular rock song ever, like it was considered for many years.  The opinions of younger folks, like it or not, are a factor here when talking about widespread appeal and popularity, and I feel that songs like Bohemian Rhapsody and Don't Stop Believin' have both surpassed it as far as popularity across all ages go.  My niece (who is 14) and nephew (who is 16) both know both of those songs, and I am pretty sure they have no clue who Led Zeppelin is or what Stairway to Heaven is.

Agreed.

[MirrorMask]

Not that a single person is proof of anything, but I remember randomly quizzing a coworker (32 years) who's not into rock...

"Tell me a Led Zeppelin song"
"Stairway to Heaven"
"Tell me a Deep Purple song"
*he didn't know the name but he hummed the Smoke on the Water riff*
"Tell me a Black Sabbath song"
He didn't know any.

But I agree with you, probably Bohemian Rhapsody right now is the most popular song, surpassing Stairway to Heaven.

[HOF]

What’s funny about Don’t Stop Believing is I only recently learned it’s resurgence in popularity was due to The Sopranos (which I’ve never seen). I guess being a Journey fan and hearing it on the radio all the time growing up I never thought it ever really went out of style. But I did think it was odd when the DJ at my brother’s wedding played it as the last song of the night and everyone went nuts. This was like 7-8 years back, and I remember thinking “these people don’t like Journey!” Which I know was true about the people my age and younger who were there at least.

[Trav86]

What’s funny about Don’t Stop Believing is I only recently learned it’s resurgence in popularity was due to The Sopranos (which I’ve never seen). I guess being a Journey fan and hearing it on the radio all the time growing up I never thought it ever really went out of style. But I did think it was odd when the DJ at my brother’s wedding played it as the last song of the night and everyone went nuts. This was like 7-8 years back, and I remember thinking “these people don’t like Journey!” Which I know was true about the people my age and younger who were there at least.

The TV series “Glee” also had a lot to do with it.

[Zantera]

Whether you like them or not, I would consider Linkin Park to be one of those generational bands in terms of popularity and exposure. Hybrid Theory like others have pointed out sold a shit ton. It doesn't mean it's better than other similar albums of that time but it is a good indication of how big they were.

[jammindude]

Age group only matters when we’re going outside of genre. That’s the whole point of this. How much did an album of a certain genre reach people outside the genre.

That’s why we were talking about AC/DC back in black. Even in the 90s, I could go to my sisters best friends house and look through her old record collection:

Disco
Disco
Disco
Barry Manilow
Neil Diamond
Disco
Frampton Comes Alive
Disco
Seals and Crofts
OH LOOK - AC/DC BACK IN BLACK

The hard rock album that even people who hate hard rock loved.

Since the few days ago that I introduced this album as a nominee, I have started asking around and I run into the same experience. I’ve run into a lot of people who know who Linkin Park is and know at least a couple of their songs. And *everybody* knows In the End, but all the rest of those bands have been left behind. No one knows who they are except the fans of those bands in that genre.

The only argument I’m making is that that album transcended the genre and reached a lot more people. Like back in black did.

[jammindude]

I want to add that the only reason that we dismiss the younger crowd is not because they just happen to be into something different, but it’s because we are talking about “the last great album“ and the younger generation doesn’t buy albums.

There are several articles out there right now talking about how with the loss of the record companies controlling the media, we’ve now lost a “collective experience“ with taking in our entertainment whatever form it might take.

I don’t think that that’s necessarily a “good thing“ or “bad thing“... there are pros and cons to both ends of it. having the record companies control everything had a lot of cons, but one of the pros was that everybody was having an experience they could all share. Everyone in your group was watching the same TV shows, listened to much of the same albums, etc. etc.

I hope you guys are getting my point. Because right now I’m not typing things out I’m just dictating a train of thought musing as I’m thinking out loud and using talk to text

[IDontNotDoThings]

How many people out of 100 that you randomly asked on the street would know their names?

Family Feud: DTF Edition 

[darkshade]

I didn't bring up PoM because they sounded the same, they don't. I was just talking about albums from that time period that were insanely popular at the time. However, no one gives af about those albums these days on a general level. At least people still enjoy SOAD's Toxicity 20 years later, but many people do not like or listen to the kind of metal found on that album (as opposed to The Black Album. Anecdotal, but I know plenty of people who don't listen to metal but will listen to that album or other Metallica albums.)

I know we’re beating a dead horse here...but I just don’t understand how you’re making this Puddle of Mudd/Linkin Park comparison. I think everyone is talking about a general music fan level, not talking about purely “metal” fans. But...

Come Clean sold about 3 million records in the U.S. and reached #9 on the charts.
Hybrid Theory sold 10.5 million records in the U.S. and reached #2 on the charts.
 
As far as how popular they are now, the best way I see to make a judgement is Spotify.
Puddle of Mudd gets around 3.5 million monthly listeners.
Linkin Park gets around 21 million monthly listeners.

Obviously they were both popular. But POM is nowhere in the same ballpark as LP. You make LIKE them more. But I don’t think that’s the point here.

Also... System of a Down gets half the monthly listeners as Linkin Park. So, I don’t know where you’re getting your info. Unless it’s just you and your friends.

Shows what I know about these type of bands and how popular they are on streaming services.
I don't like POM or LP, and I used to listen to SOAD long time ago. I just remember POM were everywhere in the early 00s, and so were Linkin Park, and neither band had any followup success to those 2 albums from my perspective. I don't know if I said it already in this thread, but these bands shouldn't even be in the discussion for this thread.

[jammindude]

You did....you just didn't really give any reason why beyond anecdotal and myopic personal experience. 

I really don't care at all for Adele, or 21...but it obviously resonated with a HUGE amount of people across all walks of life.    While it's true that I personally wouldn't give a rat's patootie if the album ceased to exist, I still think it absolutely SHOULD be in the discussion because you don't sell 12 million US and 31 million worldwide...during a time of declining album sales...unless you've achieved something that has deeply touched a lot of people.   And I'm not turning a blind eye to the idea that something I don't care for, or don't get could possibly be an incredible musical and artistic achievement that simply doesn't resonate with me personally.

[Anguyen92]

Shows what I know about these type of bands and how popular they are on streaming services.
I don't like POM or LP, and I used to listen to SOAD long time ago. I just remember POM were everywhere in the early 00s, and so were Linkin Park, and neither band had any followup success to those 2 albums from my perspective. I don't know if I said it already in this thread, but these bands shouldn't even be in the discussion for this thread.

Whistles....  That's quite a perspective.  For Puddle of Mudd, yeah, they haven't gotten much success after Come Clean, but your take about Linkin Park is far off, because Meteora was a solid 2nd album for them.  There are four songs on that album that still gets regular play on rock radio.  Faint, Somewhere I Belong, Breaking the Habit, and Numb.  Numb may be their 2nd most well-known song after In the End.  After that, they still have solid success and exposure.  I know a few of their post-Meteora songs were on those Michael Bay-produced Transformers movies.

[darkshade]

The problem with that, too, is why do older people matter more as far as having to know someone? 

Think if this way: ask 100 people under 30 who Beyonce, Justin Beiber or Taylor Swift are, and most or all will have at least heard of them.  Then ask the same people if they know who Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton or The Who, and you will probably get a lot of blank stares. 

This is why I no longer think Stairway to Heaven is the most popular rock song ever, like it was considered for many years.  The opinions of younger folks, like it or not, are a factor here when talking about widespread appeal and popularity, and I feel that songs like Bohemian Rhapsody and Don't Stop Believin' have both surpassed it as far as popularity across all ages go.  My niece (who is 14) and nephew (who is 16) both know both of those songs, and I am pretty sure they have no clue who Led Zeppelin is or what Stairway to Heaven is.

For sure. Bohemian Rhapsody is the new Rhapsody in Blue, but like RIB, it will be less known among young people as time goes on. It will be like RIB or Beethoven's 5th Symphony, where most people will be able to identify one small part but not know the whole piece or even the name of it. Most kids don't even know who Zeppelin is, but they might have heard of Greta Van Fleet. Forget Hendrix, Cream, ELP, etc... The Beatles are the only rock band most teens will have heard of by the time they're 18 or 20, but almost none would be able to name you or sing you a song of theirs. Rock music, which includes metal, is becoming that music that 'sounds old' like Frank Sinatra and smokey jazz from 80-100 years ago. Newer rock music is not "what everyone else is listening to", which is rap, club music, or [insert pop singer] and a lot of this rock stuff is all over commercials, movies, etc.. Kids aren't listening to some song they heard in a car commercial. Rock was just the pop music the olds were complaining about yesteryear, and now things have come full circle. Sure, some rock got more artsy, progressive perhaps, but overall thousands of rock songs will be long forgotten, and besides the Fab Four, and some of the early rock innovators, assuming the music will even be available to the public in the future, only a few true pioneers will still be extensively studied for centuries to come, I'm thinking guys like Frank Zappa, Miles Davis, even James Brown, dudes who were transcending rock music and other music of their time, who appeal to a wide range of music listeners, young and old, who only come around once in 100 years.

[darkshade]

Shows what I know about these type of bands and how popular they are on streaming services.
I don't like POM or LP, and I used to listen to SOAD long time ago. I just remember POM were everywhere in the early 00s, and so were Linkin Park, and neither band had any followup success to those 2 albums from my perspective. I don't know if I said it already in this thread, but these bands shouldn't even be in the discussion for this thread.

Whistles....  That's quite a perspective.  For Puddle of Mudd, yeah, they haven't gotten much success after Come Clean, but your take about Linkin Park is far off, because Meteora was a solid 2nd album for them.  There are four songs on that album that still gets regular play on rock radio.  Faint, Somewhere I Belong, Breaking the Habit, and Numb.  Numb may be their 2nd most well-known song after In the End.  After that, they still have solid success and exposure.  I know a few of their post-Meteora songs were on those Michael Bay-produced Transformers movies.

I remember when that album came out, it seemed like most people had already checked out with LP and moved on to other music. Could be my age group.

[Trav86]

Shows what I know about these type of bands and how popular they are on streaming services.
I don't like POM or LP, and I used to listen to SOAD long time ago. I just remember POM were everywhere in the early 00s, and so were Linkin Park, and neither band had any followup success to those 2 albums from my perspective. I don't know if I said it already in this thread, but these bands shouldn't even be in the discussion for this thread.

Whistles....  That's quite a perspective.  For Puddle of Mudd, yeah, they haven't gotten much success after Come Clean, but your take about Linkin Park is far off, because Meteora was a solid 2nd album for them.  There are four songs on that album that still gets regular play on rock radio.  Faint, Somewhere I Belong, Breaking the Habit, and Numb.  Numb may be their 2nd most well-known song after In the End.  After that, they still have solid success and exposure.  I know a few of their post-Meteora songs were on those Michael Bay-produced Transformers movies.

I remember when that album came out, it seemed like most people had already checked out with LP and moved on to other music. Could be my age group.

Could be that your source pool is three people. Maybe.

[jammindude]

Shows what I know about these type of bands and how popular they are on streaming services.
I don't like POM or LP, and I used to listen to SOAD long time ago. I just remember POM were everywhere in the early 00s, and so were Linkin Park, and neither band had any followup success to those 2 albums from my perspective. I don't know if I said it already in this thread, but these bands shouldn't even be in the discussion for this thread.

Whistles....  That's quite a perspective.  For Puddle of Mudd, yeah, they haven't gotten much success after Come Clean, but your take about Linkin Park is far off, because Meteora was a solid 2nd album for them.  There are four songs on that album that still gets regular play on rock radio.  Faint, Somewhere I Belong, Breaking the Habit, and Numb.  Numb may be their 2nd most well-known song after In the End.  After that, they still have solid success and exposure.  I know a few of their post-Meteora songs were on those Michael Bay-produced Transformers movies.

I remember when that album came out, it seemed like most people had already checked out with LP and moved on to other music. Could be my age group.

Could be that your source pool is three people. Maybe.

DING!

[soupytwist]

This thread is starting to confuse popularity/sales with greatness.

[Elite]

This thread is starting to confuse popularity/sales with greatness.

Oh boy, now we’re getting somewhere. What is ‘greatness’ then?

[IDontNotDoThings]

This thread is starting to confuse popularity/sales with greatness.

Based on the replies of earlier people in the thread, I think people are interpreting OP's question as "what was the latest album which (1) was widely popular, (2) was widely enjoyed among the people who did know it, & (3) had a wider appeal beyond just fans of the genre" - the latter two criteria imo separate this thread from a generic popularity contest, but I can see how you'd perceive it that way.

[Trav86]

This thread is starting to confuse popularity/sales with greatness.

Based on the replies of earlier people in the thread, I think people are interpreting OP's question as "what was the latest album which (1) was widely popular, (2) was widely enjoyed among the people who did know it, & (3) had a wider appeal beyond just fans of the genre" - the latter two criteria imo separate this thread from a generic popularity contest, but I can see how you'd perceive it that way.

Option 3 is what I assumed this meant going into it. Like...”Thriller” or “The Black Album”. Massive sellers that appeal to fans inside and out of the given genre of music the album is in.

[soupytwist]

This thread is starting to confuse popularity/sales with greatness.

Oh boy, now we’re getting somewhere. What is ‘greatness’ then?

I said this on page one.


For that you have to have...

Huge commercial success.
Huge critical success.
A couple of huge singles that will likely still be being played years later.
An album that is accessable to as many people as possible, including music snobs.
A unique sound that others copied.
A story behind it.

So I'm going for Amy Winehouse - Back to Black.

[Elite]

You did indeed, and I also commented that I thought that was a really good pick.