Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four

[Kotowboy]

 SIMPLE!!

When Dream And Day Unite, Images and Words, Awake, Falling Into Infinity

VS

A Dramatic Turn of Events, Dream Theater, The Astonishing, Distance Over Time.

I have a feelin' this will be one-sided but ya never know !

Out of the first four albums I only REALLY like Falling Into Infinity whilst I thoroughly enjoy Mangini's first four way more.


- Will be interesting to do this poll for each drummer's first five albums sometime next year if DT15 is really that good.

[Zydar]

Easiest choice ever, the first four.

[Kotowboy]

But why though?

For me - WDADU is obviously not that great - I&W is too 'light' for me. I find Awake incredibly dull after the first 4 songs and FII is the only album out of the first 4 I enjoy.

Whereas for me Mangini's first 4 albums are at worst incredibly consistent and at best - arguably DT's best 4 album run - and hopefully best 5 album run.

[Zydar]

WDADU has grown on me over the years, and I no longer rank it last in their discography. (TA has taken its place there).

I&W is their best one ever, and a true classic. Awake is not far behind. And FII is a very good album too.

Their last 4? Good stuff, but definitely not in the league of their 90s albums for me.

[Kotowboy]

(TA has taken its place there).

The Astonishing the WORST thing they've done ? Not with Systematic Chaos' plodding entire second half in existence.

- As I said i think this poll may be slightly harder next year if DT15 is as good as JR is letting on.

[TM172003]

I voted Portnoy just because of Images and Awake. Apart from Peruvian Skies, Lines in the Sand and Hell’s Kitchen I don’t care for FII and WDaDU I’ve only ever listened to once. It’s just weird hearing Dominici.

DoT and ADToE are great but Mangini’s first four is weighed down by TA and DT.

[Max Kuehnau]

MM era first four, easily. Cleaner execution, greater musicality. No FII. (their worst album to date IMHO) Constant greatness and cohesion. And: absolute lack of intra-band drama.

[Mladen]

Oh, man. This was harder than I thought.

On one hand, Images and words and Awake are in my top three, while When dream and day unite and Falling into infinity are my bottom two.

On the other hand, A Dramatic turn of events and The Astonishing are in my top five, while Dream Theater and Distance over time are in my bottom four.

I went with the first four albums with Portnoy. Even paired with my least favorite Dream Theater albums, you cannot select an option that doesn't contain Images and words and Awake.

[Dream Team]

But why though?

For me - WDADU is obviously not that great - I&W is too 'light' for me. I find Awake incredibly dull after the first 4 songs and FII is the only album out of the first 4 I enjoy.

Whereas for me Mangini's first 4 albums are at worst incredibly consistent and at best - arguably DT's best 4 album run - and hopefully best 5 album run.

Awake’s best songs are AFTER the first 4. WDADU is wonderful. FII is their worst album by far. Images is legendary. And you ask US “why though”? 

Now having said that, MM era is very close because of consistency.

[Revenge319]

I'm going with Mangini's first four, simply due to how I'd rank these eight albums:

1. A Dramatic Turn of Events
2. The Astonishing
3. Distance Over Time
4. Images and Words
5. Awake
6. Dream Theater
7. Falling Into Infinity
8. When Dream and Day Unite

[the_silent_man]

Absolutely the first 4.
-1 groundbreaking masterpiece, which is considered one of the top prog metal albums of all time by many (I&W);
-Another dark, atmospheric masterpiece (by my taste), though I know not everyone holds it in high regards (Awake);
-An underrated album that has a few very weak songs by DT standards, but also some of their best work (FII);
-An average debut by a band finding their feet (WDADU);

Whereas the new 4 have:
A brilliant return to form, that however does have its issues in mainly very weak production and offering nothing new (ADTOE);
A very strong consise album but that is a bit 'tame' by DT standards, again not offering anything new (DOT);
An fairly average and slightly uninspired effect that has production that actively hurts the album (DT12);
A 'left turn' album that, even though it has it's moments of utter brilliance and is better than DT12 in some ways, is too long/spread too thin and does not play to DTs strengths IMO (Astonishing)

The strength of I&W and Awake win this by far. And I would take FII over Astonishing and DT12. ADTOE and DOT are really great albums, but they don't offer anything really new or blow me away like those early albums still do.

[Zydar]

the_silent_man: I agree with pretty much everything you wrote there. You worded it much better than me 

[Skeever]

Yeah, 3 of the first 4 are timeless classics to me. Only WDADU is just OK. Even so, I'd still take it over the Astonishing.

[krands85]

It's a bit closer than I first thought, as I can kind of match them up fairly similarly: Both batches have one of my absolute favourites - I&W and ATDOE; a great 'second tier' album - Awake and D/T; and a couple of my lower ranked albums each.

My rankings would look something like this:

I&W
ADTOE

Awake
D/T

TA
DT12
FII

WDADU

So although MPs 4 have the lower lows, they also have the higher highs and I voted for them. I&W is just too good on it's own not to vote for! If I was only allowed to take 2 albums to a desert island and my choices were I&W and my least favourite DT album (WDADU) or my #2 and #3 DT albums, I'd probably take the former.

[kirksnosehair]

Interesting proposition, but for me not a very difficult decision with one exception.  I put ADTOE up there pretty high in the Dream Theater catalog.  There are only 3 albums of theirs I like more (I&W, SFAM and SDOIT) so it's hard for me to vote against such a brilliant album, but the Mangini group also includes The Astonishing, easily my least favorite, and the self-titled album which I almost never listen to.  They should have titled it, "Dream Theater does Rush"     


So I have to vote with the majority on this one, Portnoy all the way.

[CDrice]

WDADU and Falling into Infinity are nice albums, but still albums I don't really go back to often. Awake is better, but still not one of my favorite and Images and Words is my favorite of theirs along 6DOIT.

Distance Over Time is my favorite album since 6DOIT and ADTOE is not far below.The self-titled didn't age the best for me, but I still listen to it every once in a while. The Astonishing is a bit inconsistent, but it has many cool songs on it.

Ranking wise it'd be something like this I guess
I&W
D/T
ADTOE
The Astonishing
Awake
DT
WDADU
FII

So I went with the Mangini era.

[bosk1]

Images and Words changed everything for me, musically, and I am not alone.  I do not discount that.  But at the end of the day, despite having some of the best songs in their entire discography, it is also inconsistent and has some of their weakest.  Awake is similar, but just a hair below.  FII has some terrific songs as well, but is ultimately one of their weaker albums.  And while I can appreciate WDADU, it is my least favorite.

The Mangini era has three flawless albums, two of which are in my top 4, and a VERY good one that I love dearly in The Astonishing. 

Mangini era easily for me.  Again, the first 4 is a legendary period of music--especially when you look at where they were about to go next with albums 5 and 6.  But going solely off of quality of what I like to listen to, I have to go with the Mangini albums.

[HOF]

I'd take those first 4 DT albums over any 4 they've done since.

[darkshade]

If you're listening with metal ears, I could see how you'd prefer the Mangini era.

If you're listening with music ears, there is no denying IaW and Awake are some of the best albums ever made by anyone.

The best songs on the other two albums are also pretty great.

Most of the best moments on the Mangini albums were done better on DT's first 4 (8) albums. I'll take any string of 4 albums from their first 10 albums over the last 4 DT albums.

[pg1067]

Well...this is really the KM/DS albums against the four most recent JR albums.

I&W
Awake


DT12
ADTOE
DOT
WDADU



FII





TA


FII drags down the KM/DS group, but TA is a significantly bigger blotch on the JR group's record.  That, coupled with the runaway top 2 being from the MP group, makes this a pretty easy choice.

[emtee]

I'd take those first 4 DT albums over any 4 they've done since.

Easily and by a landslide.

[pg1067]

I'd take those first 4 DT albums over any 4 they've done since.

For me, I think SFAM through 8VM probably beats the first four.

[Dedalus]

Well...this is really the KM/DS albums against the four most recent JR albums.

Exactly. This changes everything in terms of sound, composition, music.

The drummers, well ........... are drummers.   

[tofee35]

First 4 Mangini

Man, this was actually tough for me because I like what they've done with Mangini alot, but I prefer Portnoy's style. Neither of these DT eras are my favorite (SFAM to Octavarium reign supreme for me). I've always felt bad for not loving I&W and Awake like most people. I thought it was a "me" problem, but I've recently come clean and accepted that I just don't love the I&W and Awake albums.

-Tof

[Kotowboy]

I'd take those first 4 DT albums over any 4 they've done since.

For me, I think SFAM through 8VM probably beats the first four.

This. Scenes From A Memory, Six Degrees, Train of Thought & Octavarium is an almighty four album run - tarnished by Systematic Chaos. That 2nd half is just a slog. Two 15 minute low tempo songs back to back. Yikes.

Man, this was actually tough for me because I like what they've done with Mangini alot, but I prefer Portnoy's style.

Yeah. if MP hadn't quit and the albums had otherwise stayed the same but with MP drumming on - they'd be slightly better I think. I don't like MP as a person

but I definitely prefer MP as a drummer. He has way more soul - even though he plays pretty much the same things all the time.

MM is a nice guy but gets really Passive Aggressive about his playing and prides himself WAY too much on being a human metronome and being able to have 4 limb independence. Blah blah.

[JiM-Xtreme]

A pretty easy choice for me. I find the first four Portnoy albums consistently enjoyable (although admittedly, WDADU and FII took a bit longer to grow on me) whereas I largely dislike ADToE and DT12, save for a handful of moments here and there.

And I know this thread isn't necessarily JUST about comparing the drumming, but I have to say I do find MP's approach and style more engaging and enjoyable personally.

[TheCountOfNYC]

Mangini’s first four for me. This is aided by ADToE and D/T being my number 4 and 5 DT albums respectively, while for Portnoy’s first four, only IaW ranks in my top 5, plus WDaDU and FII are my number 12 and last place DT albums respectively. I did simple math to figure this out as well. I added up the rankings of each album on my list and whichever number was lower was the winner. So for the MP albums, I did 12+3+7+14 which came out to 36. For the MM albums, I did 4+11+9+5 which came out to 29. That leaves MM’s first four as the winner.

[Kotowboy]

And I know this thread isn't necessarily JUST about comparing the drumming, but I have to say I do find MP's approach and style more engaging and enjoyable personally.

This too. As I said above - I like MM as a person and I like his playing in DT and live - but he does really get upset when people tell him he plays way more

for the time signature of the song and not the music itself and his bizarre drumming choices.

Like - I was watching an interview with him and he said he designed and setup his ambidextrous kit BEFORE he taught himself how to play 100% ambi lefty.

AND he said his set up DOES make him hurt - in the same interview. It seems everything he does is partly to annoy people who said he shouldn't do it.

BUT - this thread is about the music and i'll take MM's 4 over MPs first four any day.

[Kotowboy]

Next thread - Charlie Dominici's first album VS James LaBrie's First 14

[Setlist Scotty]

Goes without saying, for me, the MP albums. Part of that is because of the quality of IaW and Awake, but also because I rank WDaDU far higher than most, and because I have a much deeper connection to that era of the band than the MM era.

[Kotowboy]

I became a fan during Octavarium. SC was the first NEW album for me then MP left 2 years after that.

So i've been a fan for MM's entire tenure so far so all his albums have been fresh to me and i've experienced them as they came out so it's an easier choice.

It's hard for me to listen to I&W as it's so 90s and as I said Awake just bores me.

[Elite]

Dream Theater is easily the worst DT album for me, despite having the best Mangini era song (The Enemy Inside).

Images & Words is an all-time favourite, Awake my second favourite DT album and FII would rank top half as well.

MP albums, easily.

[Kotowboy]

DT12 needed better sounding drums. I think I prefer it over ADTOE - although it's hard to decide.

[geeeemo]

It was not that hard for me.  I don't care for WDaDU, even I&W is one I don't listen to as much as the others, even though I like the music.  When I first was discovering DT 5 years ago, Awake really got some play time, but there are a few songs I really don't care for on that one.  FII, I like it the most of those 4 - it sounds like no other record of theirs and I listen to it frequently.
That said.  ADToE is my 2nd fave after Scenes, DT is good, but has IT which is a top 10 song for me, I love TA and D/T is great from top to bottom. 
voted Mangini's First Four

[HOF]

This isn't an MP v MM thing for me. I genuinely don't believe the band have topped the run of I&W through FII (though SFAM is up there as well).