Poll

First four albums VS Mangini's First Four

WDADU, I&W, Awake, FII
85 (76.6%)
ADTOE, DT, TA, D/T
26 (23.4%)

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Author Topic: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four  (Read 2050 times)

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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2021, 01:35:55 PM »
This isn't an MP v MM thing for me. I genuinely don't believe the band have topped the run of I&W through FII (though SFAM is up there as well).

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Offline HOF

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2021, 01:50:46 PM »
This isn't an MP v MM thing for me. I genuinely don't believe the band have topped the run of I&W through FII (though SFAM is up there as well).

Scenes - 6 Degrees - Train of thought - Octavarium.

I get that people like those albums, but let's just say I thought that SFAM was good but a step down from what came before, and the albums decreased in quality with each successive release.

Offline IgnotusPerIgnotium

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2021, 01:50:51 PM »
The thing is that most of the songs that you find in the four MP albums are classics and hold up really well in comparison with the first MM era albums. Between ADTOE and DoT I wonder if there are songs that you can count with one hand that are considered 'classics'.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2021, 01:54:11 PM »
Well obviously not yet as the first four albums are over 25 years old. D/T is two years old it hasn't had time to become a classic.

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2021, 02:02:12 PM »
Despite me liking ADTOE quite a bit, and REALLY liking D/T this is still an easy choice!

IaW and Awake are just on a different level.

Offline Enigmachine

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2021, 03:36:06 PM »
Honestly this is kind of difficult, not even necessarily because it's close but I often find it hard for my evaluations of DT albums to be consistent for more than like a month or two. For instance, when I listened to D/T again today, I felt like it's kind of lost its fresh newalbum lustre and really admired A Mind Beside Itself when it was played on the Live Scenes dvd. However, a few months ago, my opinion would've been very much different. I would definitely have to sit with the albums a bit more to give a more accurate opinion with regards to my preferences.

If you're listening with metal ears, I could see how you'd prefer the Mangini era.

If you're listening with music ears, there is no denying IaW and Awake are some of the best albums ever made by anyone.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. WDaDU and Awake are heavier than probably like half of the Mangini era at least (D/T is really the only notably heavy album for the band of that bunch) for one. I also wouldn't say there's no denying, because I could see a perfectly reasonable case for someone thinking that the newer material shows a kind of compositional maturity that's not as present, or takes a different form within the band's earlier albums. Vice versa too, of course. I'm just not a fan of this kind of absolutist language.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2021, 03:46:19 PM »
As much as I like the Mangini era, this is not close for me.

The first four have my number 1 DT album (Awake) and my number 3 (Images and Words), and Falling into Infinity is probably in the upper part of my mid tier.  The Astonishing would be the highest for me of the Mangini era and that would be my number 5-7 DT album (dependent on my mood).

Plus, if I had to rank, say, my top 25 DT songs, probably about half would be from those first four albums, while the Mangini era would be lucky to squeeze in more than one or two.

Offline SebastiŠn Pratesi

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2021, 05:42:55 PM »
The thing is that most of the songs that you find in the four MP albums are classics and hold up really well in comparison with the first MM era albums. Between ADTOE and DoT I wonder if there are songs that you can count with one hand that are considered 'classics'.
They've played "Breaking All Illusions" more times than most songs on Dream & Day, Awake, Falling Into Infinity and Train Of Thought. It's also been played more than any stuff on Six Degrees, Octavarium, Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds. I'd say that one could be considered a classic by now.

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #43 on: April 16, 2021, 07:56:39 PM »
The thing is that most of the songs that you find in the four MP albums are classics and hold up really well in comparison with the first MM era albums. Between ADTOE and DoT I wonder if there are songs that you can count with one hand that are considered 'classics'.
They've played "Breaking All Illusions" more times than most songs on Dream & Day, Awake, Falling Into Infinity and Train Of Thought. It's also been played more than any stuff on Six Degrees, Octavarium, Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds. I'd say that one could be considered a classic by now.

Iím not sure heís saying there are no classics just that youíd struggle to count them on one hand.

Iíd say youíre probably only looking at On The Backs Of Angels and Breaking All Illusions right now as modern classics.  Thereís potentially a couple on D/T but a bit too soon to judge.  I really enjoy the Mangini albums by the way, just not sure there are too many big fan favourites on them yet.

Offline Enigmachine

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2021, 02:13:31 AM »
Bridges in the Sky, The Enemy Inside, Illumination Theory, Our New World, Barstool Warrior, S2N, At Wit's End and Pale Blue Dot I'd say are (or have the potential to become) MM era DT classics as well.

Offline Elite

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2021, 03:05:17 AM »
If you're listening with music ears, there is no denying IaW and Awake are some of the best albums ever made by anyone.

eh, what?

and don't get me wrong, Images & Words might very well be my #1 album of all time, a large part of that is due to nostalgia, but your statement doesn't make any sense
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
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Offline SleeperAwake

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2021, 03:10:51 AM »
Essentially this is three Top 5 albums vs three Bottom 5 albums for me. With WDADU and D/T being in the middle of the pack.

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2021, 03:26:14 AM »
Bridges in the Sky, The Enemy Inside, Illumination Theory, Our New World, Barstool Warrior, S2N, At Wit's End and Pale Blue Dot I'd say are (or have the potential to become) MM era DT classics as well.

I did almost put Bridges In The Sky, Illumination Theory and Our New World down and even The Gift Of Music.  Bridges In The Sky was probably closest.  Iím not sure they are big fan favourites though.  Lots of people seem to dislike IT and plenty hate anything off The Astonishing.  Donít think many people think of The Enemy Inside as a classic either.  Bridges In The Sky is arguable but not sure about the rest.

I agree thereís a few potential classics on DOT but too early to say yet.

Offline Kyo

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2021, 06:35:00 AM »
This is a surprisingly hard choice for me. You'd think that "classic DT" would be the easy pick, but WDADU has its obvious flaws, I never cared much for a lot of the material on Awake and FII also has just a few highlights and a lot of forgettable stuff. I&W is untouchable, but ADToE isn't that far off quality-wise and while I do think all of the other three Mangini albums are flawed in some way, that doesn't mean I like them less than Awake or FII overall. Though it needs to be said that having the less compressed HD tracks masters for ADToE and DT12 plus the Blu-ray master of DoT are essential to raise the albums to the audio quality level necessary to compete with the classics.
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Offline darkshade

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2021, 07:30:03 AM »
At best, there's a couple of classics but I struggle to call any Mangini tracks 'classic DT' without it being derivative of MP-era DT.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2021, 07:58:46 AM »
Breaking All Illusions seems like the most obvious classic from the Mangini era thus far (played on multiple tours, and always in a prime spot in the set list - last song of a set).  Not my favorite from this era, but it seems like if you had to point to one song, that would be it.

Offline hunnus2000

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2021, 08:18:25 AM »
I went with the MM era.

I feel that the first 4 were pretty raw except for FII but I am not as impressed with Awake as others. I like it a lot but I feel the MM era has showcased JLB and JR better.

Offline Trav86

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2021, 08:58:55 AM »
Images and Words
Awake
A Dramatic Turn of Events
Falling Into Infinity
Distance Over Time
When Dream and Day Unite
Dream Theater
The Astonishing

Portnoyís first four.
Can't we find the minds
to lead us closer to the heart?

Offline Stadler

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2021, 09:09:15 AM »
Images and Words
Awake

A Dramatic Turn of Events
Falling Into Infinity
Dream Theater
Distance Over Time

When Dream and Day Unite
The Astonishing

But the first two are so far out ahead of the rest, that it's not close.  Other than "This Is The Life", there's nothing that I would say is "classic" in the Mangini era.  I&W is one of my favorite albums of any band ever, and Awake is a worthy successor to that.

Online Zydar

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2021, 09:27:28 AM »
Images And Words
Awake
Falling Into Infinity
A Dramatic Turn of Events
Distance Over Time
Dream Theater
When Dream And Day Unite
The Astonishing

Offline TAC

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2021, 09:46:16 AM »
Images And Words
Awake

A Dramatic Turn Of Events
When Day And Dream Unite
The Astonishing
Dream Theater

Falling Into Infinity


would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline HOF

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2021, 11:17:22 AM »
Awake
Falling Into Infinity
Images And Words
-gap-
When Dream And Day Unite
-gap-
The Astonishing
Dream Theater
-gap-
A Dramatic Turn of Events
Distance Over Time (Iíve only heard a very little bit of this)

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2021, 01:03:09 PM »
Images and Words
Awake
Falling Into Infinity
Distance Over Time
A Dramatic Turn of Events
When Dream and Day Unite
Dream Theater
The Astonishing

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2021, 02:53:00 PM »
Images and Words
A Dramatic Turn of Events
Distance Over Time

Awake
The Astonishing
Dream Theater

When Dream and Day Unite
Falling Into Infinity
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Offline Volante99

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #59 on: April 18, 2021, 11:22:05 AM »
The first four-  it even close

Images & Words is still their best songwriting, and Awake makes a strong case for having their most inventive, progressive playing.

With the exception of ADoTE, I havenít really enjoyed the Mangini era except on a very surface level.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #60 on: April 18, 2021, 02:23:03 PM »
When Dream & Day Unite V A Dramatic Turn of Events = ADTOE

Images & Words V DT12 = DT12 for me. I like I&W but it's too soft for my tastes. Neither has a good snare sound though.

Awake V The Astonishing = The Astonishing. I enjoy the whole thing whereas Awake bores me after the opening 3 songs.

Falling Into infinity V Distance Over Time = Distance Over Time. I like FII more than most but D/T felt like classic DT from SFAM - Octavarium was back.

Offline JayOctavarium

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #61 on: April 18, 2021, 02:49:52 PM »
Option 1 only because of Images and Awake. I do enjoy them all though.
I just don't understand what they were trying to achieve with any part of the song, either individually or as a whole. You know what? It's the Platypus of Dream Theater songs. That bill doesn't go with that tail, or that strange little furry body, or those webbed feet, and oh god why does it have venomous spurs!? And then you find out it lays eggs too. The difference is that the Platypus is somehow functional despite being a crazy mishmash or leftover animal pieces

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2021, 06:39:16 AM »
This has nothing to do with either drummer (especially since Mangini wasn't even involved with the songwriting on 2 of his 4), but the Portnoy 4 easily.
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2021, 11:41:35 AM »
I prefer the MM first four.  By that time DT has come a long way as musicians, and Labrie has more freedom to be himself and call the shots on his vocal delivery. 
The band seemed to have a new energy after the somewhat darker vibe of BC&SL and SC. (although I love Systematic Chaos).
 I love all four of the Mangini albums from start to finish.  As far as the MP albums, I love I&W and Awake, but WDADU and FII are my two least favorite DT albums.

On a side note.  I like TA better than SFAM by far! 
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Offline lovethedrake

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2021, 10:26:08 PM »
First 4 Portnoy.

They could have released 3 albums banging on sticks and scratching chalkboards in addition to Images and Words and it would still be first 4 portnoy.

ADTOE is their worst album also.

I think the three latest are all very good with DOT finally capturing some of the magic of the 90ís but I&W, Awake, and half of FII are classics. 

Offline lovethedrake

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2021, 10:38:28 PM »
Bridges in the Sky, The Enemy Inside, Illumination Theory, Our New World, Barstool Warrior, S2N, At Wit's End and Pale Blue Dot I'd say are (or have the potential to become) MM era DT classics as well.

At Wits End and Breaking all Illusions would be the only classics of the mangini era.  I donít even looooove Breaking all Illusions as I think the vocal melodies are underwhelming but I will concede it as a classic.

Enemy inside is one of my least favorite Dream Theater songs, illumination theory is controversial and far from a classic, pale blue dot the same, S2N is a poor mans version of a SDOIT song.

I think our new world and barstool warrior are widely considered enjoyable but would you really put them up against metropolis, change of seasons, learning to live, spirit carries on, octavarium, take the time, trial of tears, fatal tragedy, SDOIT, etc.....?



Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #66 on: April 20, 2021, 01:25:12 AM »
Bridges in the Sky, The Enemy Inside, Illumination Theory, Our New World, Barstool Warrior, S2N, At Wit's End and Pale Blue Dot I'd say are (or have the potential to become) MM era DT classics as well.



I think our new world and barstool warrior are widely considered enjoyable but would you really put them up against metropolis, change of seasons, learning to live, spirit carries on, octavarium, take the time, trial of tears, fatal tragedy, SDOIT, etc.....?
Yes I would!  Also add The Bigger Picture,  Illumination Theory,  Behind the Veil, Bridges in the Sky, Moment of Betrayal, Chosen, Ravenskill,  S2N,  Fall Into the Light,  and Pale Blue Dot.  All of those hold up to the older songs you mentioned..
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Offline WildRanger

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #67 on: April 20, 2021, 01:55:43 AM »
I don't get how this could be close at all.
Portnoy's First Four by a long shot and I'm not a big fan of their debut and FII.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2021, 08:10:00 AM by WildRanger »

Offline Enigmachine

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #68 on: April 20, 2021, 02:33:45 AM »


At Wits End and Breaking all Illusions would be the only classics of the mangini era.  I donít even looooove Breaking all Illusions as I think the vocal melodies are underwhelming but I will concede it as a classic.

Enemy inside is one of my least favorite Dream Theater songs, illumination theory is controversial and far from a classic, pale blue dot the same, S2N is a poor mans version of a SDOIT song.

I think our new world and barstool warrior are widely considered enjoyable but would you really put them up against metropolis, change of seasons, learning to live, spirit carries on, octavarium, take the time, trial of tears, fatal tragedy, SDOIT, etc.....?

I mean it kinda depends how strictly we give the measurement for classics. It's fair to say that even some of the ones you listed would be considered just as controversial as Illumination Theory or Pale Blue Dot. I've seen plenty of dissenting opinions on the likes of A Change of Seasons (many consider it disjointed and overblown), Trial of Tears (as a slow 13 min track, you can bet that there are many who'd consider it dull and uneventful) and Six Degrees (same criticisms thrown at ACoS but magnified). Maybe you don't like The Enemy Inside, but it's one of the band's best performing tracks in terms of streaming and hits super hard live. I'm not even personally a massive fan of Our New World but I know it has a strong effect on a lot of people. Also, would certainly put Bridges in the Sky up against all of those, as it's one of my favourite DT tracks and seems to be another fan favourite live.

Also... S2N being a poor man's version of a SDoIT song? I don't know what about it would really be reminding one of that album. The songs that it most closely resembles are probably Take the Time and maybe Surrender to Reason, at a stretch. Possibly The Great Debate but I don't know, even that doesn't really have the same vibe at all.

Offline geeeemo

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Re: Portnoy's First Four VS Mangini's First Four
« Reply #69 on: April 20, 2021, 07:51:14 AM »
It's not a landslide because not everyone loves I&W or Awake. They are very enjoyable (although there are couple songs in Awake I skip which is very rare for a DT album), but I just prefer how they evolved as they went. Ya, I&W was what got them going, but it doesn't make it a favorite because of that. It's all subjective anyway, so a comment of "not understanding how it could even be close", makes no sense to me. Here is my ranking of those 8.

ADTOE
FII
D/T
TA
Awake
DT
I&W

WDaDU (don't really listen to it)

The beauty of DT is that it is so veritable and yet still so DT.