Poll

First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?

Black Sabbath: self-titled and Paranoid
16 (37.2%)
Ozzy: Blizzard of Ozz and Diary of a Madman
27 (62.8%)

Total Members Voted: 43

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Online wolfking

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2021, 02:55:25 PM »
I ended up voting Sabbath.  My heart lies more heavily with that band.

With the radio discussion, the mainstream rock radio over here plays Paranoid but I've never heard Crazy Train.


 :o   Wow!  That fucking song is massively overplayed here in the states.

I haven't listened consistently to the radio for a long time but growing up and even before discovering Sabbath I knew Paranoid from hearing it on rock radio.  Things may be different now but I don't recall hearing Crazy Train on the radio over here.  That's a minority in this argument however and means nothing in the scope of it.

Offline ThatOneGuy2112

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2021, 02:57:54 PM »
I like the first two Ozzy albums well enough. But for me they just don't hold a candle to the first two Sabbath albums. I suppose I just get more out of the heavy blues influence in early metal. Just take Warning for example. That song is infinitely addictive and mesmerizing, it's unbelievable, and in a strange way kinda gorgeous. I don't get the same feeling of goosebumps out of those Ozzy records. They're very solid rock albums, no doubt. But they lack what I love so much with songs like Fairies Wear Boots.

Offline bl5150

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2021, 06:58:17 PM »
I ended up voting Sabbath.  My heart lies more heavily with that band.

With the radio discussion, the mainstream rock radio over here plays Paranoid but I've never heard Crazy Train.


 :o   Wow!  That fucking song is massively overplayed here in the states.

That's just us poor bastards in Australia.  I don't think I have ever heard an Ozzy solo song on mainstream radio period .  We just don't have a genuine mainstream hard rock/metal station (where I am anyway).


Ozzy easy for me too btw.
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Online TAC

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2021, 06:59:35 PM »
I ended up voting Sabbath.  My heart lies more heavily with that band.

With the radio discussion, the mainstream rock radio over here plays Paranoid but I've never heard Crazy Train.


 :o   Wow!  That fucking song is massively overplayed here in the states.

That's just us poor bastards in Australia.  I don't think I have ever heard an Ozzy solo song on mainstream radio period as we don't have a genuine mainstream hard rock/metal station.

Yeah, that would definitely help. :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline WildRanger

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2021, 01:58:29 AM »

For a 25-year-old kid he was definitely way above average and full of potential.

Duane Allman >> Randy Rhoads


Offline WildRanger

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2021, 02:55:04 AM »

I've literally never heard Paranoid on the radio.  I've certainly heard Iron Man a lot, but I've heard Crazy Train on the radio eleventy million times.  It's easily the most popular song we are talking about here.

Easily the most popular song, but ONLY in America, not in Europe (or Australia or South America). 
In Europe "Paranoid" is the biggest hit song by Black Sabbath, their most well-known song and definitely much bigger hit than "Crazy Train". And I'm very surprised if you've never heard Paranoid on the radio because I supposed, as a short tune, it was a huge rock hit in the US too.
Ozzy solo was commercially much more successful in America than Europe.

I expect there are non-American members on this board who can confirm this.





Offline WildRanger

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2021, 03:05:39 AM »

"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?"  You're kidding, right?  If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile. 


You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".

No, I'm NOT wrong, and it's getting awfully tiresome to read your comments like this, which presuppose that your opinions are irrefutable and universal facts.

"Not any more popular" among which group of people?  What evidence do you have of their comparative popularity?  Of course, you could have rightly asked me the same question.  Had you done that, my answer would have been more or less what Stadler wrote:  Crazy Train is well-known and enjoyed by folks who are not fans in general of Ozzy Osbourne or hard rock/heavy metal.  The song is ubiquitous at sporting events, and it turns up with some regularity in television commercials.  Among fans of metal/hard rock, the three songs might be on relatively even footing, but Crazy Train is the only one of the three songs that transcends to the general population.

On top of that, Crazy Train, as a single, is certified 4x Platinum by the RIAA.  Notably, it was certified Gold in the mid-2000s and certified 2x Platinum in 2009 and 4x Platinum in 2020.  If anything, it's gaining popularity.  It's also notable that Blizzard of Ozz, the album on which Crazy Train appears, is certified as 5x Platinum.  A lot of that was a result of folks re-buying the album on new media, but the 5x certification occurred in early 2019.  Do you suppose that's happening on the strength of I Don't Know and No Bone Movies?

Now let's look at RIAA certifications for Paranoid and Iron Man.  Paranoid, the ablum, went Gold in 1971 and was certified 3x Platinum in 1986.  It went 4x Platinum in 1995 (26 years ago) and that's it.  How about the songs?  Neither Paranoid nor Iron Man has even been certified Gold (and yes, both songs were released as singles).

So...your move.  What objective evidence do you have of your assertion that "Crazy Train is not any more popular than 'Paranoid' and 'Iron Man'."

As I see you only used RIAA, American big sport events and American TV commercials as an indicator for popularity. Do you realize that in Europe (or Australia or South America) "Paranoid" could be a much more popular song than "Crazy Train"? Do you realize  there is no "Crazy Train" at European football/soccer or basketball matches and in European TV commercials? USA is definitely not the whole world when it comes to popularity in music.
Ozzy solo was commercially very big in the USA, but not outside.




Online MirrorMask

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2021, 03:09:33 AM »
In Europe to begin with there's not much rock music at sporting events or commercials to begin with.

Most random comment in favor of Crazy Train: Once I was in holiday at a sea location, and in the streets of the historical centre there was a band playing instrumental music with sax and arranging the songs to suite their style. One of the songs played was Crazy Train. So, totally random occourence, but see - Crazy Train is famous enough to be played to entertain tourists at the sea.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2021, 06:42:21 AM »

I've literally never heard Paranoid on the radio.  I've certainly heard Iron Man a lot, but I've heard Crazy Train on the radio eleventy million times.  It's easily the most popular song we are talking about here.

Easily the most popular song, but ONLY in America, not in Europe (or Australia or South America). 
In Europe "Paranoid" is the biggest hit song by Black Sabbath, their most well-known song and definitely much bigger hit than "Crazy Train". And I'm very surprised if you've never heard Paranoid on the radio because I supposed, as a short tune, it was a huge rock hit in the US too.
Ozzy solo was commercially much more successful in America than Europe.

I expect there are non-American members on this board who can confirm this.
Are you upset that I am posting from an American perspective, when you had no problem posting from a European perspective?

Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Stadler

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2021, 08:16:16 AM »
What do you think of "No More Tears" ?
The only Ozzy album I like very much.


It's the only one I still listen to once in a while.  To this day I still think Zakk Wylde is the best guitarist that Ozzy ever worked with.  Randy Rhoads became famous because he died young in a plane crash.  He was a great guitar player, but the mythology that surrounds him to this day is rather overblown.  I admit, though, that I would love to have seen him mature as he aged.  For a 25-year-old kid he was definitely way above average and full of potential.

I don't know about "best", but I do know that if I had my choice of Ozzy lineups, I'd take Zakk in there in a heartbeat.  I think he "gets" the Ozzy ethos the best.  He doesn't complain, he plays the Sabbath and Randy stuff honestly, with enough reverence but without overdoing it, and he nails his own material (which is underrrated, IMO).   It's not a top favorite, but if Ozzy didn't sound like a sniveling man-baby on that record, No Rest For The Wicked would be a great record.  (I can't really articulate it, but somewhere along the line he developed this nasally sniveling affectation to some of his singing; you can hear it on the chorus to Crazy Babies (one of my least favorite Ozzy songs ever).  It's also in Miracle Man.  I have to step out to run an errand; I'll listen to No Rest and find a hard example.

Offline Stadler

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2021, 08:18:38 AM »

"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?"  You're kidding, right?  If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile. 


You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".

No, I'm NOT wrong, and it's getting awfully tiresome to read your comments like this, which presuppose that your opinions are irrefutable and universal facts.

"Not any more popular" among which group of people?  What evidence do you have of their comparative popularity?  Of course, you could have rightly asked me the same question.  Had you done that, my answer would have been more or less what Stadler wrote:  Crazy Train is well-known and enjoyed by folks who are not fans in general of Ozzy Osbourne or hard rock/heavy metal.  The song is ubiquitous at sporting events, and it turns up with some regularity in television commercials.  Among fans of metal/hard rock, the three songs might be on relatively even footing, but Crazy Train is the only one of the three songs that transcends to the general population.

On top of that, Crazy Train, as a single, is certified 4x Platinum by the RIAA.  Notably, it was certified Gold in the mid-2000s and certified 2x Platinum in 2009 and 4x Platinum in 2020.  If anything, it's gaining popularity.  It's also notable that Blizzard of Ozz, the album on which Crazy Train appears, is certified as 5x Platinum.  A lot of that was a result of folks re-buying the album on new media, but the 5x certification occurred in early 2019.  Do you suppose that's happening on the strength of I Don't Know and No Bone Movies?

Now let's look at RIAA certifications for Paranoid and Iron Man.  Paranoid, the ablum, went Gold in 1971 and was certified 3x Platinum in 1986.  It went 4x Platinum in 1995 (26 years ago) and that's it.  How about the songs?  Neither Paranoid nor Iron Man has even been certified Gold (and yes, both songs were released as singles).

So...your move.  What objective evidence do you have of your assertion that "Crazy Train is not any more popular than 'Paranoid' and 'Iron Man'."

As I see you only used RIAA, American big sport events and American TV commercials as an indicator for popularity. Do you realize that in Europe (or Australia or South America) "Paranoid" could be a much more popular song than "Crazy Train"? Do you realize  there is no "Crazy Train" at European football/soccer or basketball matches and in European TV commercials? USA is definitely not the whole world when it comes to popularity in music.
Ozzy solo was commercially very big in the USA, but not outside.

What Hef said.

You can't have it both ways.  The globe is BOTH Europe AND America (plus...).   If it's invalid to take this only from an American perspective, then you're just as wrong for taking it from a European perspective.   

Or, what Hef said.

Offline WildRanger

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2021, 08:31:12 AM »

I've literally never heard Paranoid on the radio.  I've certainly heard Iron Man a lot, but I've heard Crazy Train on the radio eleventy million times.  It's easily the most popular song we are talking about here.

Easily the most popular song, but ONLY in America, not in Europe (or Australia or South America). 
In Europe "Paranoid" is the biggest hit song by Black Sabbath, their most well-known song and definitely much bigger hit than "Crazy Train". And I'm very surprised if you've never heard Paranoid on the radio because I supposed, as a short tune, it was a huge rock hit in the US too.
Ozzy solo was commercially much more successful in America than Europe.

I expect there are non-American members on this board who can confirm this.
Are you upset that I am posting from an American perspective, when you had no problem posting from a European perspective?

I'm not upset. You said "Crazy Train is easily the most popular song we are talking about here" and I said your statement is only partially true because it only applies to one (big) country, but not other territories around the globe. America is not the whole world.

For example, you can say Garth Brooks is one of the best selling music artists but you have to add IN THE USA, because he is definitely not one of the best selling music artists worldwide since the rest of the world doesn't even know who Garth Brooks is.








Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2021, 09:15:41 AM »

I've literally never heard Paranoid on the radio.  I've certainly heard Iron Man a lot, but I've heard Crazy Train on the radio eleventy million times.  It's easily the most popular song we are talking about here.

Easily the most popular song, but ONLY in America, not in Europe (or Australia or South America). 
In Europe "Paranoid" is the biggest hit song by Black Sabbath, their most well-known song and definitely much bigger hit than "Crazy Train". And I'm very surprised if you've never heard Paranoid on the radio because I supposed, as a short tune, it was a huge rock hit in the US too.
Ozzy solo was commercially much more successful in America than Europe.

I expect there are non-American members on this board who can confirm this.
Are you upset that I am posting from an American perspective, when you had no problem posting from a European perspective?

I'm not upset. You said "Crazy Train is easily the most popular song we are talking about here" and I said your statement is only partially true because it only applies to one (big) country, but not other territories around the globe. America is not the whole world.

For example, you can say Garth Brooks is one of the best selling music artists but you have to add IN THE USA, because he is definitely not one of the best selling music artists worldwide since the rest of the world doesn't even know who Garth Brooks is.
But I only said that in the first place because you wrote

You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
You didn't qualify it by saying "in Europe".

BTW, the U.S. is a HUGE chunk of worldwide record sales.  Garth is estimated to have sold over 180 million albums worldwide.  He's not quite in the rarified air of Elvis or the Beatles, but he is DEFINITELY  one of the best selling music artists worldwide, not just in the US.  FYI, he has scored Gold albums in Canada, Australia, the UK, and Norway.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2021, 09:27:06 AM »

I've literally never heard Paranoid on the radio.  I've certainly heard Iron Man a lot, but I've heard Crazy Train on the radio eleventy million times.  It's easily the most popular song we are talking about here.

Easily the most popular song, but ONLY in America, not in Europe (or Australia or South America). 
In Europe "Paranoid" is the biggest hit song by Black Sabbath, their most well-known song and definitely much bigger hit than "Crazy Train". And I'm very surprised if you've never heard Paranoid on the radio because I supposed, as a short tune, it was a huge rock hit in the US too.
Ozzy solo was commercially much more successful in America than Europe.

I expect there are non-American members on this board who can confirm this.
Are you upset that I am posting from an American perspective, when you had no problem posting from a European perspective?

I'm not upset. You said "Crazy Train is easily the most popular song we are talking about here" and I said your statement is only partially true because it only applies to one (big) country, but not other territories around the globe. America is not the whole world.

For example, you can say Garth Brooks is one of the best selling music artists but you have to add IN THE USA, because he is definitely not one of the best selling music artists worldwide since the rest of the world doesn't even know who Garth Brooks is.
But I only said that in the first place because you wrote

You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
You didn't qualify it by saying "in Europe".

BTW, the U.S. is a HUGE chunk of worldwide record sales.  Garth is estimated to have sold over 180 million albums worldwide.  He's not quite in the rarified air of Elvis or the Beatles, but he is DEFINITELY  one of the best selling music artists worldwide, not just in the US.  FYI, he has scored Gold albums in Canada, Australia, the UK, and Norway.

He's actually pretty big in the UK and Ireland, a market that's not sweet on (American) country music to begin with. 

Offline ShadowWalker

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2021, 09:32:17 AM »
I own the first two Ozzy solo albums (and a few others). The only Ozzy-era Sabbath I own is The End and I also have a copy of We Sold Our Souls To Rock n Roll on it. That makes my choice obvious, I do believe. Now that I am looking at my CD wall, I have every Black Sabbath album not featuring Ozzy...

Honest question:  have you heard all the Ozzy Sabbath stuff?  It's worth a quick tour to listen to Vol.4 through Never Say Die; they are sorely under-represented by WSOSTRnR - three songs from Vol. 4 (and not the best ones), one from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and one - by FAR my least favorite - from Sabotage.  None from Technical Ecstacy (which I actually LOVE), and none from Never Say Die.   I think the run from Vol. 4 through Never Say Die is as good a five album run as you'll find.  Not everyone is going to agree with me on that, but I'm sticking to it.  I like the proggier Sabbath over the sludgier Sabbath.

Honest answer: listening every so often to We Sold Our Souls... has never really given me any motivation to do a deep dive into the Ozzy-era Sabbath catalog. Other than that compilation and The End, which was a gift, I don't think I have ever actually listened to an original studio album from Ozzy's time with the band. Maybe I should...

Offline pg1067

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2021, 09:42:15 AM »
As I see you only used RIAA, American big sport events and American TV commercials as an indicator for popularity. Do you realize that in Europe (or Australia or South America) "Paranoid" could be a much more popular song than "Crazy Train"? Do you realize  there is no "Crazy Train" at European football/soccer or basketball matches and in European TV commercials? USA is definitely not the whole world when it comes to popularity in music.
Ozzy solo was commercially very big in the USA, but not outside.

You are wrong.

J/K, but you might want to think twice before leading with a dumbass statement like that.  Of course I realize all that stuff.  Had you written, "I think here in Europe, it's a very different situation than in the U.S.," I wouldn't have responded as I did (or responded at all).

ALSO, it's worth pointing out that while I obviously only gave you RIAA date for U.S. sales, you gave NO data from anywhere, and you have relatively little, if any, credibility here.  The way you have conducted yourself here is such that folks are not simply going to accept you as an authority about all things relative to music in Europe.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2021, 10:52:34 AM »
I own the first two Ozzy solo albums (and a few others). The only Ozzy-era Sabbath I own is The End and I also have a copy of We Sold Our Souls To Rock n Roll on it. That makes my choice obvious, I do believe. Now that I am looking at my CD wall, I have every Black Sabbath album not featuring Ozzy...

Honest question:  have you heard all the Ozzy Sabbath stuff?  It's worth a quick tour to listen to Vol.4 through Never Say Die; they are sorely under-represented by WSOSTRnR - three songs from Vol. 4 (and not the best ones), one from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and one - by FAR my least favorite - from Sabotage.  None from Technical Ecstacy (which I actually LOVE), and none from Never Say Die.   I think the run from Vol. 4 through Never Say Die is as good a five album run as you'll find.  Not everyone is going to agree with me on that, but I'm sticking to it.  I like the proggier Sabbath over the sludgier Sabbath.

Honest answer: listening every so often to We Sold Our Souls... has never really given me any motivation to do a deep dive into the Ozzy-era Sabbath catalog. Other than that compilation and The End, which was a gift, I don't think I have ever actually listened to an original studio album from Ozzy's time with the band. Maybe I should...

I'm not really one to try to "sell" someone on music if they don't like it, but while WSOS is a good compilation for the hits, it's not complete.  You could do a lot worse than give "Sabbath Bloody Sabbath" or "Sabotage" a turn.    Don't expect free jazz, or country, but there is a little more to the band than "Black Sabbath" (a song I don't really like, to be honest) or "Sweat Leaf".   

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2021, 11:11:32 AM »
Shadow Walker, I second Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage. I can understand not totally connecting with OZZY Era Sabbath, but give these albums a listen.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline El Barto

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2021, 11:23:04 AM »
I own the first two Ozzy solo albums (and a few others). The only Ozzy-era Sabbath I own is The End and I also have a copy of We Sold Our Souls To Rock n Roll on it. That makes my choice obvious, I do believe. Now that I am looking at my CD wall, I have every Black Sabbath album not featuring Ozzy...

Honest question:  have you heard all the Ozzy Sabbath stuff?  It's worth a quick tour to listen to Vol.4 through Never Say Die; they are sorely under-represented by WSOSTRnR - three songs from Vol. 4 (and not the best ones), one from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and one - by FAR my least favorite - from Sabotage.  None from Technical Ecstacy (which I actually LOVE), and none from Never Say Die.   I think the run from Vol. 4 through Never Say Die is as good a five album run as you'll find.  Not everyone is going to agree with me on that, but I'm sticking to it.  I like the proggier Sabbath over the sludgier Sabbath.
Yeah, seconded. There are some songs I don't care for on SBS and Sabotage, but they both contain some of their best music and are easily their best albums of the Ozzy era. The five song stretch to end Sabotage is just magnificent.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2021, 12:10:49 PM »
WSOS has four songs from Vol. 4 (Tomorrow's Dream, Changes, Laguna Sunrise and Snowblind -- granted, LS is just acoustic guitar and keys).  I'd replace TD with Supernaut

I think my feelings are closer to those of ShadowWalker.  I've never found much to grab onto on SBS than the title track.  It's one of those albums that has one song that's so very, very good and bunch of "meh" stuff.  Sabotage is about the same, although a bit more interesting to me.  Ozzy's vocals on Hole in the Sky are very "yelly," but it's a good tune, as is Symptom (which is one of the most glaring omissions on WSOS), but the rest has never grabbed me.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2021, 12:29:40 PM »
No argument here, just a slow work day and an interesting topic, so...

Vol. 4:
FX/Supernaut
Wheels Of Confusion/The Straightener ("Try your hardest you'll still be a loser; the world will still be turning when you're gone.")
Tomorrow's Dream
Under The Sun/Every Day Comes And Goes
St. Vitus' Dance
Laguna Sunrise
Cornucopia
Changes
Snowblind

Sabbath Bloody Sabbath:
Spiral Architect (might be my favorite Sabbath song ever)
Looking For Today
Killing Yourself To Live
A National Acrobat
Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
Fluff
Sabbara Cadabra
Who Are You?

Sabotage:
Thrill Of It All
Megalomania
The Writ
Hole In The Sky
Don't Start (Too Late)/Symptom Of The Universe
Supertzar
Am I Going Insane (Radio)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 12:40:05 PM by Stadler »

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2021, 12:58:59 PM »

I've literally never heard Paranoid on the radio.  I've certainly heard Iron Man a lot, but I've heard Crazy Train on the radio eleventy million times.  It's easily the most popular song we are talking about here.

Easily the most popular song, but ONLY in America, not in Europe (or Australia or South America). 
In Europe "Paranoid" is the biggest hit song by Black Sabbath, their most well-known song and definitely much bigger hit than "Crazy Train". And I'm very surprised if you've never heard Paranoid on the radio because I supposed, as a short tune, it was a huge rock hit in the US too.
Ozzy solo was commercially much more successful in America than Europe.

I expect there are non-American members on this board who can confirm this.
Are you upset that I am posting from an American perspective, when you had no problem posting from a European perspective?

I'm not upset. You said "Crazy Train is easily the most popular song we are talking about here" and I said your statement is only partially true because it only applies to one (big) country, but not other territories around the globe. America is not the whole world.

For example, you can say Garth Brooks is one of the best selling music artists but you have to add IN THE USA, because he is definitely not one of the best selling music artists worldwide since the rest of the world doesn't even know who Garth Brooks is.
But I only said that in the first place because you wrote

You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
You didn't qualify it by saying "in Europe".

BTW, the U.S. is a HUGE chunk of worldwide record sales.  Garth is estimated to have sold over 180 million albums worldwide.  He's not quite in the rarified air of Elvis or the Beatles, but he is DEFINITELY  one of the best selling music artists worldwide, not just in the US.  FYI, he has scored Gold albums in Canada, Australia, the UK, and Norway.

He's actually pretty big in the UK and Ireland, a market that's not sweet on (American) country music to begin with.
True.  I have a DVD around here somewhere of a sold-out show he did in Ireland at a stadium. 

When he made his comeback several years ago, his inaugural tour stop was going to again be a big stadium in Ireland, but it got derailed by local politics.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2021, 01:14:54 PM »

For a 25-year-old kid he was definitely way above average and full of potential.

Duane Allman >> Randy Rhoads


um, OK?  :\

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #58 on: April 08, 2021, 01:24:10 PM »
I own the first two Ozzy solo albums (and a few others). The only Ozzy-era Sabbath I own is The End and I also have a copy of We Sold Our Souls To Rock n Roll on it. That makes my choice obvious, I do believe. Now that I am looking at my CD wall, I have every Black Sabbath album not featuring Ozzy...

Honest question:  have you heard all the Ozzy Sabbath stuff?  It's worth a quick tour to listen to Vol.4 through Never Say Die; they are sorely under-represented by WSOSTRnR - three songs from Vol. 4 (and not the best ones), one from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and one - by FAR my least favorite - from Sabotage.  None from Technical Ecstacy (which I actually LOVE), and none from Never Say Die.   I think the run from Vol. 4 through Never Say Die is as good a five album run as you'll find.  Not everyone is going to agree with me on that, but I'm sticking to it.  I like the proggier Sabbath over the sludgier Sabbath.

Honest answer: listening every so often to We Sold Our Souls... has never really given me any motivation to do a deep dive into the Ozzy-era Sabbath catalog. Other than that compilation and The End, which was a gift, I don't think I have ever actually listened to an original studio album from Ozzy's time with the band. Maybe I should...


Stop what you are doing right now.  Go get a copy of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and listen to it from beginning to end a few times.  It's incredible.  :hat

By the way, while you're listening to this album, consider this: It's 48 years old  :eek

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #59 on: April 08, 2021, 01:26:00 PM »
"LIVING JUST FOR DYING, DYING JUST FOR YOU, YEAH!"  :metal

Offline Stadler

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #60 on: April 08, 2021, 01:49:59 PM »
Maybe WildRanger is right (skip ahead to 1:05, though the whole thing is worth watching)....


https://youtu.be/ktYVgKBrhIo

Offline pg1067

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2021, 04:03:19 PM »
Maybe WildRanger is right (skip ahead to 1:05, though the whole thing is worth watching)....


https://youtu.be/ktYVgKBrhIo

What the actual fuck is that?!
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline Stadler

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2021, 07:28:17 AM »
Maybe WildRanger is right (skip ahead to 1:05, though the whole thing is worth watching)....


https://youtu.be/ktYVgKBrhIo

What the actual fuck is that?!

Six and a half minutes of AWESOME.    Robert Fripp and his wife/life partner/whatevs Toyah Wilcox do a "Sunday Brunch" thing that they've been doing since the COVIDs landed.  Each week, for the most part, they cover a popular rock or metal song, and personally I find them FASCINATING.   They've done ZZ Top, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, and Guns 'n' Roses to name a few, and they are very entertaining.  Helps that I have a sort of thing for Toyah, but still.   I always thought of Fripp as this pretentious snoot, but he lays into some of those metal riffs with gusto (and Toyah actually NAILS, in her own way, Bruce's scream in "The Number Of The Beast").

The clip I posted was an "outtakes/compilation" of sorts.  The real ones are only about a minute and a half long or so.

Offline pg1067

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2021, 09:19:42 AM »
Six and a half minutes of AWESOME.



I barely tolerated it to the point where the guy with the guitar started playing Paranoid.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline Stadler

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2021, 09:36:06 AM »
Six and a half minutes of AWESOME.



I barely tolerated it to the point where the guy with the guitar started playing Paranoid.

"Guy with the guitar"?  Robert Fripp, from King Crimson.   Your mileage may vary, but I consider him one of the more technically competent guitarists active today, and probably the second most glaring omission from the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame (yes, I know that doesn't matter to most people, but it does me, as a sort of canary in the coal mine for the place of a musician in the industry).

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2021, 11:32:52 AM »
Yeah, Fripp and King Crimson should totally be in the HOF.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline ShadowWalker

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #66 on: April 09, 2021, 12:05:17 PM »
I own the first two Ozzy solo albums (and a few others). The only Ozzy-era Sabbath I own is The End and I also have a copy of We Sold Our Souls To Rock n Roll on it. That makes my choice obvious, I do believe. Now that I am looking at my CD wall, I have every Black Sabbath album not featuring Ozzy...

Honest question:  have you heard all the Ozzy Sabbath stuff?  It's worth a quick tour to listen to Vol.4 through Never Say Die; they are sorely under-represented by WSOSTRnR - three songs from Vol. 4 (and not the best ones), one from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and one - by FAR my least favorite - from Sabotage.  None from Technical Ecstacy (which I actually LOVE), and none from Never Say Die.   I think the run from Vol. 4 through Never Say Die is as good a five album run as you'll find.  Not everyone is going to agree with me on that, but I'm sticking to it.  I like the proggier Sabbath over the sludgier Sabbath.

Honest answer: listening every so often to We Sold Our Souls... has never really given me any motivation to do a deep dive into the Ozzy-era Sabbath catalog. Other than that compilation and The End, which was a gift, I don't think I have ever actually listened to an original studio album from Ozzy's time with the band. Maybe I should...


Stop what you are doing right now.  Go get a copy of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and listen to it from beginning to end a few times.  It's incredible.  :hat

By the way, while you're listening to this album, consider this: It's 48 years old  :eek

Age doesn't bother me. I was just listening to The Who - Live At Leeds. A live recording that could be released today and still sound relevant...

I have added SBS and Sabotage to the Amazon cart for my next order (I will do the rounds at my local shops this weekend to see if I can support them with a new or used purchase before falling back on Amazon).

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #67 on: April 09, 2021, 12:44:29 PM »
Yeah, Fripp and King Crimson should totally be in the HOF.


I don't even like King Crimson but I totally agree with this.


Also:


1. drunk me would definitely do Toyah  :P   
2. But I never touch the stuff because see #1


 :lol

Offline pg1067

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #68 on: April 09, 2021, 01:03:14 PM »
"Guy with the guitar"?  Robert Fripp, from King Crimson.   Your mileage may vary, but I consider him one of the more technically competent guitarists active today, and probably the second most glaring omission from the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame (yes, I know that doesn't matter to most people, but it does me, as a sort of canary in the coal mine for the place of a musician in the industry).

Gotcha.  Not a KC fan, so it's not like I'd recognize him.
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Online TAC

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #69 on: April 09, 2021, 04:56:49 PM »
Toyah smokes, but holy shit, those videos blow.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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