Poll

First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?

Black Sabbath: self-titled and Paranoid
16 (37.2%)
Ozzy: Blizzard of Ozz and Diary of a Madman
27 (62.8%)

Total Members Voted: 43

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Offline WildRanger

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First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« on: April 06, 2021, 01:25:23 PM »
Let's see who's gonna win here.

My choice is BS, by a lot.


Offline Lonk

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2021, 01:38:03 PM »
can we not?
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2021, 01:58:21 PM »
I prefer the first two Ozzy albums, but I understand that the first two Sabbath albums had a far greater impact.

Offline wolfking

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Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2021, 02:29:40 PM »
I think I prefer the Ozzy albums for their superior production values, but those two Sabbath albums practically invented the genre. 


I'm gonna give it to Black Sabbath because when they made those albums they were doing something relatively fresh and new on the hard rock/metal scene whereas the Ozzy albums, while sonically superior don't really break any new ground at all.

Offline Stadler

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2021, 02:39:57 PM »
I voted Ozzy, but that's primarily on the strength of Diary.   I love the first eight Sabbath records, and I have a real affinity for the the first record, but they're overshadowed (for me) by Vol. 4, SBS and Sabotage.  So, because I know there's better coming down the pike, and Ozzy peaked out on Diary, I'm sticking with Oz.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2021, 02:45:51 PM »
I voted Ozzy, but that's primarily on the strength of Diary.   I love the first eight Sabbath records, and I have a real affinity for the the first record, but they're overshadowed (for me) by Vol. 4, SBS and Sabotage.  So, because I know there's better coming down the pike, and Ozzy peaked out on Diary, I'm sticking with Oz.


What do you think of "No More Tears" ?


I think it's pretty close in quality to Blizzard and Diary.  Not quite as good, but pretty close.


"The Ultimate Sin" is pretty killer [of giants]  :P too

Offline Stadler

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2021, 02:54:54 PM »
I voted Ozzy, but that's primarily on the strength of Diary.   I love the first eight Sabbath records, and I have a real affinity for the the first record, but they're overshadowed (for me) by Vol. 4, SBS and Sabotage.  So, because I know there's better coming down the pike, and Ozzy peaked out on Diary, I'm sticking with Oz.


What do you think of "No More Tears" ?


I think it's pretty close in quality to Blizzard and Diary.  Not quite as good, but pretty close.


"The Ultimate Sin" is pretty killer [of giants]  :P too

No More Tears is probably my second favorite Ozzy record.  I love it.  But it's a matter of "when"; I got into Diary when I was in high school and it was all new.  I got NMT when I moved to California after college and it was different.  But it's still one of the Ozzy records I listen to the most.

As for TUS (and BATM):  very good, but not in the same league as Blizzard, Diary, or NMT.

Diary of a Madman (1981)
Blizzard of Ozz (1980)
No More Tears (1991)   

Bark at the Moon (1983)
The Ultimate Sin (1986)
No Rest for the Wicked (1988)

Down to Earth (2001) 
Ozzmosis (1995)
Black Rain (2007)
Scream (2010)
   

Never listened to Ordinary Man (2020) and have little desire to.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2021, 02:56:17 PM »
I haven't listened to anything he released after NMT that did anything for me and Ordinary Man is, frankly, garbage

Offline Lowdz

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2021, 03:09:05 PM »
Never been an original Sabbath fan so easy decision. Ozzy.

Offline pg1067

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2021, 04:11:28 PM »
Hmmm...

Black Sabbath
The Wizard
NIB
War Pigs
Paranoid
Iron Man
Fairies Wear Boots

versus

Crazy Train
Suicide Solution
Mr. Crowley
Revelation (Mother Earth)
Steal Away (The Night)
Over the Mountain
Flying High Again
You Can't Kill Rock and Roll
Believer
SATO
Diary of a Madman

I can take or leave (mostly leave) the rest of the songs on those four albums.

Even if I give Sabbath a bump for historical significance, the weight of the Ozzy solo material makes this a pretty easy call.


can we not?

Well...you know...what fun would that be?  If you don't want to play, just ignore the thread.
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Offline TAC

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2021, 04:24:48 PM »
I'm taking the Ozzy albums easily.

This matchup doesn't really make sense though. It would've been better to put Blizzard and Diary up against H&H and Mob Rules.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
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Offline DTA

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2021, 05:55:14 PM »
Ozzy and I don’t even like Blizzard all that much. Diary is just that strong imo

Offline darkshade

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2021, 06:22:38 PM »
Sabbath. Not just for their historical importance, but because every single song on both the first two albums are really good, if not classics and some of the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre. Tony Iommi was doing things no one other than Robert Fripp thought of doing with a guitar for another 10-20 years.

What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?
I'd still rather hear the song Paranoid 1000 times more than I already have, than have to listen to "Aaaalll abooardd hahahaha" ever again.
It also sounds like Ozzy is competing with Dio-era BS on those first two albums, because Sabbath kicked the tempos up a notch and got an incredible singer.
Randy Rhodes is overrated, sorry.

Offline Grappler

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2021, 06:38:30 PM »
Ozzy.  I just listened to those two albums a bunch last week (and have been listening to a lot of Sabbath this week) and am still blown away at how amazing Randy Rhoads was and how fantastic those songs are. 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2021, 06:47:31 PM »
The Sabbath duo, easily.  Both are great from start to finish, while Blizzard is kinda inconsistent (some awesome songs, some meh ones).  Diary of a Madman is neck and neck with No More Tears for being my favorite Ozzy record, but the consistency and awesomeness of those two Sabbath records made this one I didn't even have to think about.

Offline El Barto

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2021, 06:52:50 PM »
I voted Ozzy, but that's primarily on the strength of Diary.   I love the first eight Sabbath records, and I have a real affinity for the the first record, but they're overshadowed (for me) by Vol. 4, SBS and Sabotage.  So, because I know there's better coming down the pike, and Ozzy peaked out on Diary, I'm sticking with Oz.

Bingo. Ozzy's first two are his best, and Sabbath's, while good, aren't theirs. Moreover, Blizzard/Diary still get regular listens. The first Sabbath albums not nearly as regularly.
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Offline TAC

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2021, 06:54:07 PM »
I never listen to the first two Sabbath albums.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2021, 07:31:07 AM »
What do you think of "No More Tears" ?
The only Ozzy album I like very much.
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Offline LudwigVan

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2021, 09:04:05 AM »
Paranoid is a top ten album for me and I still voted for Ozzy. That’s how good those 2 albums are.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2021, 09:17:58 AM »
I'm taking the Ozzy albums easily.

This matchup doesn't really make sense though. It would've been better to put Blizzard and Diary up against H&H and Mob Rules.

I seem to recall that being asked a while ago:

Heaven And Hell >>> Blizzard Of Ozz
Mob Rules <<< Diary Of A Madman

1.   Diary Of A Madman
2.   Heaven And Hell
3a. Mob Rules

3b.  Blizzard Of Ozz

Both Mob Rules and Blizzard have some great songs - TSOTSC; Revelations; Over And Over; Crazy Train - and some not so great - Voodoo, Suicide Solution; Country Girl; No Bone Movies - and the obligatory interlude - E5150; Dee. They are a wash; but I slightly - SLIGHTLY - prefer Diary, so Ozzy gets the nod.

Offline pg1067

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2021, 09:25:30 AM »
Sabbath. Not just for their historical importance, but because every single song on both the first two albums are really good, if not classics and some of the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre. Tony Iommi was doing things no one other than Robert Fripp thought of doing with a guitar for another 10-20 years.

What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?
I'd still rather hear the song Paranoid 1000 times more than I already have, than have to listen to "Aaaalll abooardd hahahaha" ever again.
It also sounds like Ozzy is competing with Dio-era BS on those first two albums, because Sabbath kicked the tempos up a notch and got an incredible singer.
Randy Rhodes is overrated, sorry.

I disagree with a lot of this.  Like what you like, but....

"[E]very single song on both the first two albums are really good, if not classics and some of the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre."  No.  Behind the Wall of Sleep?  Evil Woman?  Warning?  Planet Caravan?  Hand of Doom?  Rat Salad?  None of those are anywhere near "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre" (even if you removed the word "rock," they still wouldn't be among "the most well known songs."

"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?"  You're kidding, right?  If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile.  And, beyond Crazy Train, you have Suicide Solution, Mr. Crowley, Flying High Again and Diary of a Madman.  Among metal fans, those songs are classics (as are many of the Sabbath songs, but acting like Crazy Train the only Ozzy song worth considering is...well...crazy).

"It also sounds like Ozzy is competing with Dio-era BS on those first two albums."  I'm not sure what this means, but Blizzard was fully recorded before H&H was released, and Diary was fully recorded before Mob Rules was released (and Diary was only released a few days after Mob).  Are you suggesting that, when Randy Rhoads and Bob Daisley were working on the music for Diary, Ozzy urged them to make it sound like Heaven and Hell?

"Randy Rhodes is overrated."  I don't disagree with that, but it's neither here nor there in this comparison.  It's entirely possible for Rhoads to be overrated and Blizzard and Diary to be excellent albums.
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline pg1067

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2021, 09:29:37 AM »
I'm taking the Ozzy albums easily.

This matchup doesn't really make sense though. It would've been better to put Blizzard and Diary up against H&H and Mob Rules.

I seem to recall that being asked a while ago:

Heaven And Hell >>> Blizzard Of Ozz
Mob Rules <<< Diary Of A Madman

1.   Diary Of A Madman
2.   Heaven And Hell
3a. Mob Rules

3b.  Blizzard Of Ozz

Both Mob Rules and Blizzard have some great songs - TSOTSC; Revelations; Over And Over; Crazy Train - and some not so great - Voodoo, Suicide Solution; Country Girl; No Bone Movies - and the obligatory interlude - E5150; Dee. They are a wash; but I slightly - SLIGHTLY - prefer Diary, so Ozzy gets the nod.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Blizzard/Diary v. H&H/Mob was a thread not that long ago.

I think my rankings are about the same as yours, except I don't rank Diary quite as strong as you do (the difference probably being the song Tonight), and I rank Mob much higher than Blizzard (I think Voodoo and Country Girl are both at least really good songs and think Over and Over is the weak link on the album).
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline WildRanger

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2021, 10:27:01 AM »

"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?"  You're kidding, right?  If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile. 


You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".



Offline Stadler

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2021, 11:02:31 AM »

"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?"  You're kidding, right?  If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile. 


You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".

When's the last time you went to a football game and "Paranoid" broke out?   There's not a week goes by that you don't hear at some point that "ssssssssss... I...I...I..." of the intro to Crazy Train.    Name all the relief pitchers in Major League Baseball that walk in to "Crazy Train", and then list all those that walk in to either "Paranoid" or "Iron Man".    "Iron Man" is close, I grant you that, but they are not on the same level.   

Offline ShadowWalker

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2021, 11:53:26 AM »
I own the first two Ozzy solo albums (and a few others). The only Ozzy-era Sabbath I own is The End and I also have a copy of We Sold Our Souls To Rock n Roll on it. That makes my choice obvious, I do believe. Now that I am looking at my CD wall, I have every Black Sabbath album not featuring Ozzy...

Offline ShadowWalker

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2021, 12:00:19 PM »

"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?"  You're kidding, right?  If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile. 


You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".

When's the last time you went to a football game and "Paranoid" broke out?   There's not a week goes by that you don't hear at some point that "ssssssssss... I...I...I..." of the intro to Crazy Train.    Name all the relief pitchers in Major League Baseball that walk in to "Crazy Train", and then list all those that walk in to either "Paranoid" or "Iron Man".    "Iron Man" is close, I grant you that, but they are not on the same level.

When I hear Iron Man come on, I think back immediately to the pre-WWF days of The Road Warriors, as it was their entrance music. Ahhh, the memories...

Offline pg1067

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2021, 12:32:50 PM »

"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?"  You're kidding, right?  If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile. 


You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".

No, I'm NOT wrong, and it's getting awfully tiresome to read your comments like this, which presuppose that your opinions are irrefutable and universal facts.

"Not any more popular" among which group of people?  What evidence do you have of their comparative popularity?  Of course, you could have rightly asked me the same question.  Had you done that, my answer would have been more or less what Stadler wrote:  Crazy Train is well-known and enjoyed by folks who are not fans in general of Ozzy Osbourne or hard rock/heavy metal.  The song is ubiquitous at sporting events, and it turns up with some regularity in television commercials.  Among fans of metal/hard rock, the three songs might be on relatively even footing, but Crazy Train is the only one of the three songs that transcends to the general population.

On top of that, Crazy Train, as a single, is certified 4x Platinum by the RIAA.  Notably, it was certified Gold in the mid-2000s and certified 2x Platinum in 2009 and 4x Platinum in 2020.  If anything, it's gaining popularity.  It's also notable that Blizzard of Ozz, the album on which Crazy Train appears, is certified as 5x Platinum.  A lot of that was a result of folks re-buying the album on new media, but the 5x certification occurred in early 2019.  Do you suppose that's happening on the strength of I Don't Know and No Bone Movies?

Now let's look at RIAA certifications for Paranoid and Iron Man.  Paranoid, the ablum, went Gold in 1971 and was certified 3x Platinum in 1986.  It went 4x Platinum in 1995 (26 years ago) and that's it.  How about the songs?  Neither Paranoid nor Iron Man has even been certified Gold (and yes, both songs were released as singles).

So...your move.  What objective evidence do you have of your assertion that "Crazy Train is not any more popular than 'Paranoid' and 'Iron Man'."
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Offline Stadler

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2021, 01:29:57 PM »
I own the first two Ozzy solo albums (and a few others). The only Ozzy-era Sabbath I own is The End and I also have a copy of We Sold Our Souls To Rock n Roll on it. That makes my choice obvious, I do believe. Now that I am looking at my CD wall, I have every Black Sabbath album not featuring Ozzy...

Honest question:  have you heard all the Ozzy Sabbath stuff?  It's worth a quick tour to listen to Vol.4 through Never Say Die; they are sorely under-represented by WSOSTRnR - three songs from Vol. 4 (and not the best ones), one from Sabbath Bloody Sabbath, and one - by FAR my least favorite - from Sabotage.  None from Technical Ecstacy (which I actually LOVE), and none from Never Say Die.   I think the run from Vol. 4 through Never Say Die is as good a five album run as you'll find.  Not everyone is going to agree with me on that, but I'm sticking to it.  I like the proggier Sabbath over the sludgier Sabbath.

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2021, 02:21:12 PM »
Ozzy



"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?"  You're kidding, right?  If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile. 


You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".

No, I'm NOT wrong, and it's getting awfully tiresome to read your comments like this, which presuppose that your opinions are irrefutable and universal facts.

"Not any more popular" among which group of people?  What evidence do you have of their comparative popularity?  Of course, you could have rightly asked me the same question.  Had you done that, my answer would have been more or less what Stadler wrote:  Crazy Train is well-known and enjoyed by folks who are not fans in general of Ozzy Osbourne or hard rock/heavy metal.  The song is ubiquitous at sporting events, and it turns up with some regularity in television commercials.  Among fans of metal/hard rock, the three songs might be on relatively even footing, but Crazy Train is the only one of the three songs that transcends to the general population.

On top of that, Crazy Train, as a single, is certified 4x Platinum by the RIAA.  Notably, it was certified Gold in the mid-2000s and certified 2x Platinum in 2009 and 4x Platinum in 2020.  If anything, it's gaining popularity.  It's also notable that Blizzard of Ozz, the album on which Crazy Train appears, is certified as 5x Platinum.  A lot of that was a result of folks re-buying the album on new media, but the 5x certification occurred in early 2019.  Do you suppose that's happening on the strength of I Don't Know and No Bone Movies?

Now let's look at RIAA certifications for Paranoid and Iron Man.  Paranoid, the ablum, went Gold in 1971 and was certified 3x Platinum in 1986.  It went 4x Platinum in 1995 (26 years ago) and that's it.  How about the songs?  Neither Paranoid nor Iron Man has even been certified Gold (and yes, both songs were released as singles).

So...your move.  What objective evidence do you have of your assertion that "Crazy Train is not any more popular than 'Paranoid' and 'Iron Man'."

You must have way too much time on your hands if you're writing paragraphs in your defense against someone like WildRanger.  :lol :rollin :lol
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2021, 02:26:40 PM »

"What does the first two Ozzy albums have? Crazy Train?"  You're kidding, right?  If you want to discuss "the most well known songs in the rock/metal genre," Crazy Train exceeds everything on either of the first two Sabbath albums by a country mile. 


You are wrong. Crazy Train is not any more popular than "Paranoid" and "Iron Man".
lol

I've literally never heard Paranoid on the radio.  I've certainly heard Iron Man a lot, but I've heard Crazy Train on the radio eleventy million times.  It's easily the most popular song we are talking about here.
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Offline wolfking

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2021, 02:36:44 PM »
I ended up voting Sabbath.  My heart lies more heavily with that band.

With the radio discussion, the mainstream rock radio over here plays Paranoid but I've never heard Crazy Train.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #33 on: April 07, 2021, 02:48:59 PM »
What do you think of "No More Tears" ?
The only Ozzy album I like very much.


It's the only one I still listen to once in a while.  To this day I still think Zakk Wylde is the best guitarist that Ozzy ever worked with.  Randy Rhoads became famous because he died young in a plane crash.  He was a great guitar player, but the mythology that surrounds him to this day is rather overblown.  I admit, though, that I would love to have seen him mature as he aged.  For a 25-year-old kid he was definitely way above average and full of potential. 

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: First two Black Sabbath albums vs. first two Ozzy albums?
« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2021, 02:50:01 PM »
I ended up voting Sabbath.  My heart lies more heavily with that band.

With the radio discussion, the mainstream rock radio over here plays Paranoid but I've never heard Crazy Train.


 :o   Wow!  That fucking song is massively overplayed here in the states.