Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)

[DoctorAction]

That's it. You've jogged my memory.

I remember watching her talk show things at the time and thinking she seemed completely fine, yet there was this general feeling from some that she was not acting in the way an MCU actor should. Obvs, all subjective, but I didn't catch any "inappropriate" (for want of a less loaded term) attitude from her, personally.

[soupytwist]

There was a interview where a few of the cast were together, 'those people' said the body language of the others round Brie suggested they didn't like her.  Don Cheadle who was part of the interview heard about this and stuck up for Brie calling them out as idiots.  Thus Don also became a target from 'those people'.  'Those people' also believe the only reason it took over a Billion at the box office is because Disney were buying tickets 

[DoctorAction]

Ha. Good work, Don.

[bosk1]

One thing I will say is that Larson put in massive amounts of work to get in shape for the role.  I was watching something showing the physical work she did, and it was pretty amazing.  Apparently, she couldn't even do one pushup at the beginning.  But she went through an intense workout regimen for months and REALLY put in the work.  She worked HARD for that role.

[Lonk]

Speaking of Captain Marvel, The Marvel release was pushed back to November, but we got a poster:

[The Realm]

One thing I will say is that Larson put in massive amounts of work to get in shape for the role.  I was watching something showing the physical work she did, and it was pretty amazing.  Apparently, she couldn't even do one pushup at the beginning.  But she went through an intense workout regimen for months and REALLY put in the work.  She worked HARD for that role.

Yeah, but if someone was paying me big dollars to work out and do push ups I could do it too. I don't really think that means too much, you either like the performance or you don't. To me something is just a bit off about her take on the character but still looking forward to The Marvels.

[bosk1]

Apples and oranges.  I can hate the performance AND appreciate the work she put in.  Which is WAY, WAY more effort that just doing some pushups--she put in massive amounts of work into her physical training for an extended period of time.  I have no problem respecting that, even if it does nothing to make me like the performance itself.

[jammindude]

The more I see her other performances (both in and out of the MCU) I’m slowly coming around to the POV of putting the blame on the director.  She’s got acting chops. But at some point, I think she was guided to “do it this way”. 

The movie had a good framework. But ya, that performance was robotic and it’s not even like she does that in other roles.

[lordxizor]

The more I see her other performances (both in and out of the MCU) I’m slowly coming around to the POV of putting the blame on the director.  She’s got acting chops. But at some point, I think she was guided to “do it this way”. 

The movie had a good framework. But ya, that performance was robotic and it’s not even like she does that in other roles.

I've thought all along that it was a specific choice by either her or the director that her character would be low on emotion and rather wooden in delivery. I'm hoping that changes as her character breaks away from the brainwashing she essentially was under. I'm not going to write her character off until I see The Marvels, because she is indeed a good actor.

[DoctorAction]

After just watching Wakanda Forever and not being that entertained, I think I'm about to step off the MCU bus. It's been a great ride but I'm not digging it enough anymore. I'll watch QMania and GOTG3 but it doesn't feel important to me at this point.

I think I was bound to feel this way sooner or later. I don't dig the source material as the hundreds of characters, variations and team-ups feel arbitrary and pointless to me. While the movies initially focussed on a handful of characters, they had weight but I'm struggling to feel much about most of it now.

Maybe I'll feel differently after those 2 movies but I think it's probably just saturation point.

[bosk1]

I hate to admit it, but I'm not too far off of that either.  I mean, I'm not ready to jump off just yet.  But I'm closer than I would have thought I would be at this point.  But, to me, saturation isn't why.  It is a factor, but it's a relatively small one.  It's more just the steep drop in quality, and how consistent that dropoff has been, as I've been saying.  I expected that nothing would be on the level of the Infinity Saga, and I went into what followed with lowered expectations.  But what he have consistently gotten is far below those lowered expectations.  When virtually every new film is in the bottom 1/3, there's a problem.  That said, I'm still holding on, because I do still manage to find enjoyment, and I am still hopeful.

[Samsara]

I was not a huge fan of Wakanda Forever. Obviously, losing Chadwick Boseman was a huge blow to the franchise, as I am sure they had things mapped out with him in the lead. But the story of WF just...it was bland. It was rudderless for me. I'll see the new Antman. But I think Marvel and DC are starting to go too deep now, developing films for minor characters.

But, as I keep reminding myself, I'm not the target audience any longer. I'm one part of it. But the 18-35 audience is what they want. And I'm long past that.

[bosk1]

looooooooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggggg.

[lonestar]

I think you all are expecting way too much out of comic book films. Yes, the Infinity Saga was a gold standard that will never be achieved again, but I think it's mostly because it was such a fresh idea. I re-watch all the movies all of the time, and only a few would I put on a pedestal above the rather mindless, spectacle entertainment they are at the core. And man, in my busy ass life with all it's bullshit and whatnot, I need that so much.

[bosk1]

Yes, the Infinity Saga was a gold standard that will never be achieved again, but I think it's mostly because it was such a fresh idea.

No.  No.  No.  No. NO!  It wasn't good because it was fresh.  It was good because the vast majority of those movies were exceptionally good as movies.  Not as "comic book movies" or as "superhero movies."  They were exceptional movies.  Period.  Most of them were B+ to A+ movies, period. 

[lonestar]

Yes, the Infinity Saga was a gold standard that will never be achieved again, but I think it's mostly because it was such a fresh idea.

No.  No.  No.  No. NO!  It wasn't good because it was fresh.  It was good because the vast majority of those movies were exceptionally good as movies.  Not as "comic book movies" or as "superhero movies."  They were exceptional movies.  Period.  Most of them were B+ to A+ movies, period.

Relax boo... it's just a comic book movie...






It was well executed, and the idea of a long running extended universe was fresh, especially one with characters so endearing to everybody. Personally, I feel Black Widow, Shang Chi and No Way Home were as good as any of the Infinity flicks save a few. (*ducks flamethrower*)But Inifinity Saga is a really hard, if not impossible act to follow, because that childish delight won't be there for us, we have a bar to compare anything else to now.

[The Realm]

I am definitely suffering Marvel superhero fatigue. Last Marvel movie I saw in the cinema was Dr Strange Multiverse of Madness and I thought it was very average and I had no interest going to see Thor 4, Wakanda Forever in the cinema and will also not see Ant Man 3. I have subsequently watched Thor 4 and Wakanda on Disney+ and did not like them.

I agree with Bosk that the movies we like, we like them because they are good movies. I don't associate the ones I like with comic book movies. These last few movies have failed to really suck me in with a strong enough story, character beats and emotional connection to make me consider them good movies.

I think GotG3 is the next one out? (Sorry if I am wrong there). Fingers crossed this is a really good movie.

[soupytwist]

Phase 4 for me.

Black Widow : Love Yelena.  Wish it'd been more grounded though. It's OK for a movie released out of sync with the timeline, and Ray Winston is awful.  Lower tier.
Shang Chi : Solid entry, one of the better origin films - typically fell into the huge CGI fest finale, but that's 90% of the MCU.  Mid Tier.
Eternals : Worst MCU film.  Bottom Tier
Spider-Man No Way Home : Fucking Awesome, only bettered by Infinity War.  Top Tier.
Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness : It is a bit messy, but I really like it. Think its a much better film the First Strange movie.  Upper Mid Tier.
Thor Love and Thunder : I don't think this is a bad as it's made out, I'd take it over Thor 2 anyday, yes it's too silly but so are the Guardian films - Lower Mid Tier.
Black Panther Wakanda Forever : Left the cinema thinking it was a really good film, however it's dropped more than any other MCU film on a rewatch where I see a lot of flaws and it's really over long - Lower Mid Tier.

[DoctorAction]

1. Spider Man No Way Home - great emotion, old villains were shit
2. Black Widow - shit villains, great emotion
3. Doctor Strange ITMOM / Shang Chi / Thor L&T - misfire / satisfactory/ misfire
4. Wakanda Forever - mess
5. Eternals - total fucking mess

[The Realm]

1. Spider Man No Way Home - great emotion, old villains were shit
2. Black Widow - shit villains, great emotion
3. Doctor Strange ITMOM / Shang Chi / Thor L&T - misfire / satisfactory/ misfire
4. Wakanda Forever - mess
5. Eternals - total fucking mess

DoctorAction - me and you are on the same wavelength. Totally agree with this and couldn't have summed up the movies any better.

Also, none of these movies I see myself ever watching again. I have probably watched most of the previous Marvel movies more than once and some more than 5 times.

[jammindude]

I would totally watch both Spider Man and Shang-Chi many times over. Absolutely LOVE those films.

I will concede that ITMOM and LAT were sorely lacking and are among the absolute worst in the entire MCU.

Black Widow was ok. The next time I do my chronological rewatch, I’m going to put it where it belongs in the timeline and see if it fares any better. I actually really love about 90% of that movie, but man does that ending SUCK!

The Eternals is…just …there.  You know what The Eternals reminds me of?  The Inhumans. But maybe that’s exactly why everyone hates it and I still think it’s ok. Because I actually didn’t think The Inhumans was the dumpster fire everyone made it out to be.

[Adami]

Other than disagreeing about Inhumans (it was awful), I agree with JD.

I have a lot of thoughts on the MCU but they’re very in line with Bosk as of now.

[lonestar]

Ok...

Phase 4 Rankings...

1- Black Widow- My favorite character finally gets her own movie, and they do a plus one with Yelena to boot. Love the chemistry between the two, loved the story arc. Only flaw was Taskmaster, but since I'm not a comic purist it didn't bug me too much. Ending didn't bother me one bit like it did with pretty much everyone else. My biggest complaint is that this came in Phase 4 and not where she should have gotten her own film in Phase 3
2- No Way Home- Basically a tie tbh...great fun, solid intensity, brutally emotional with May's death, was cool with the alternate Spidey's and Villains, and a solid 'wipe the slate clean' ending.
3- Shang Chi- Killer origin story, good chemistry between the three principles, and a great elder villain and protagonist casting in Tony Leung and Michelle Yeoh. Epic dragon battle got a bit silly, but I expect that out of the MCU.
4- Dr Strange 2- A solid spin on the standard MCU story with the horror flick vibe, I think I was expecting more out of this, but it was entertaining as fuck and fully satisfying. Plus Lizzy 
5- Wakanda Forever- The emotional parts of this movie, the tributes to Chadwick, were fucking brilliant. This movie was like a taco, it was beautiful in the beginning, and even though it fell apart into a sloppy mess, I still loved it.
6- The Eternals- meh....just meh...Really zero desire for a re-watch, twice was enough. Shame they wasted the first encounter with the Celestials on this pile of shit.
7- Thor: Love and Thunder- This will probably never get a re-watch from me because I'll never be able to sit through that first half hour ever again. Holy fuck did they ruin the Thor character.

[Dream Team]

Finally saw WF Thursday night on Disney+. Meh. Some decent stuff but some goofy too. CGI on Namor looked a little wonky at times. Wife fell asleep  . Hopefully Antman 3 is better but sadly I’ve heard otherwise.

1. Dr Stange MoM  - for obvious reasons
2. Black Widow - love this character. She deserved her own movie even if it felt rushed.
3. No Way Home - pretty cool having Maguire and Garfield. Good emotional core.
4. Thor 4 - again, love the character but some really stupid scenes in this thing. Mixed bag. At least Jane had an arc.
5. Shang Chi - didn't know anything about these characters or their background but I thought it was pretty well done
6. Wakanda Forever - only see once 2 days ago, not really enough time to digest
7. Eternals - haven't watched, never will

[bosk1]

1.  Black Widow:  I really like this movie, and like it more over time now that Hawkeye has added some additional meat to Yelena's character arc.  Yeah, it had its flaws.  Taskmaster was a letdown, completely aside from the departure from the comics (which I don't overly care about).  And the ending was edited in such a way as to leave holes that don't make sense.  But overall, it was a fun solo MCU adventure that I would put up there with some of the other OG Avengers solo films. 
2.  Shang Chi:  As a solo character origin story, it is almost right up there with some of the best.  In fact, for most of the film, it is up there.  ...until it forsakes all of the incredible focus on family drama and individual story arcs in the third act to the point where it feels like it is trying to actively distract the audience from all of that and do something entirely different.  That's the problem with it.  Otherwise, really strong film.  Could be #1 some days.  And as time goes on and we revisit the character in other settings, it may climb a bit in my overall rankings just for having more "context."
3.  Wakanda Forever:  Wasn't bad at all.  It had a lot going for it.  But just a few moments here and there that required a bit too much suspension of belief, some little inconsistencies, and some unnecessary bloat that were distracting.  Bottom half MCU film overall, but still very enjoyable.  If this was the "average" for phase 4, I could consider phase 4 still fairly strong.  But it isn't...
4.  No Way Home:  This was a good movie.  But it suffered because the very premise in the plot for how and why things were happening was stupid and unbelievable.  And because it is the very premise that sets the entire plot in motion, it gets a major deduction for that.  Poor writing is unfortunately a VERY common thread in phase 4.  And its a shame because there is so much to love about this film.
5.  Dr. Strange:  Other missed opportunity.  This movie could have and should have been stellar.  But too many things unexplained that needed to be explained, too many character moments where characters were acting contrary to their MCU arcs, and some scenes that suffered from poor writing.  This should have easily been the #1, had a lot of minor little fails along the way.  And it's too bad because there are so many moments I loved, and it had a really good story, both as a standalone movie and as part of the overall MCU multiverse saga as a whole.  Also had to dock it some points because it was a great film without the completely unnecessary LGBTQ+ propaganda, and Marvel would do well to figure out that a lot of its audience don't want to see that (and other objectionable content) in what many would consider "family films."  Sad that Hollywood feels the need to normalize sin, and this is the latest trend/version of that same problem.  Oh well.
6.  Thor L&T:  Such a shame.  I had REALLY high hopes and this movie had a REALLY high ceiling of potential.  There are some things I love about it, but those are far overshadowed by how badly this movie fell on its face so many times in so many areas.
7.  Eternals:  Absolute bottom of the barrel.  Almost nothing redeeming about this movie at all.  Shouldn't even be part of the MCU.

[DoctorAction]

5.  Dr. Strange:  Other missed opportunity.  This movie could have and should have been stellar.  But too many things unexplained that needed to be explained, too many character moments where characters were acting contrary to their MCU arcs, and some scenes that suffered from poor writing.  This should have easily been the #1, had a lot of minor little fails along the way.  And it's too bad because there are so many moments I loved, and it had a really good story, both as a standalone movie and as part of the overall MCU multiverse saga as a whole.  Also had to dock it some points because it was a great film without the completely unnecessary LGBTQ+ propaganda, and Marvel would do well to figure out that a lot of its audience don't want to see that (and other objectionable content) in what many would consider "family films."  Sad that Hollywood feels the need to normalize sin, and this is the latest trend/version of that same problem.  Oh well.

I don't recall anything LGBTQ+ in it. What was that again? And "sin"? Really?

[lonestar]

5.  Dr. Strange:  Other missed opportunity.  This movie could have and should have been stellar.  But too many things unexplained that needed to be explained, too many character moments where characters were acting contrary to their MCU arcs, and some scenes that suffered from poor writing.  This should have easily been the #1, had a lot of minor little fails along the way.  And it's too bad because there are so many moments I loved, and it had a really good story, both as a standalone movie and as part of the overall MCU multiverse saga as a whole.  Also had to dock it some points because it was a great film without the completely unnecessary LGBTQ+ propaganda, and Marvel would do well to figure out that a lot of its audience don't want to see that (and other objectionable content) in what many would consider "family films."  Sad that Hollywood feels the need to normalize sin, and this is the latest trend/version of that same problem.  Oh well.

I don't recall anything LGBTQ+ in it. What was that again? And "sin"? Really?

I think he's referring to America's parents being same sex. Which is actually canonistic to the comic.

[Zook]

5.  Dr. Strange:  Other missed opportunity.  This movie could have and should have been stellar.  But too many things unexplained that needed to be explained, too many character moments where characters were acting contrary to their MCU arcs, and some scenes that suffered from poor writing.  This should have easily been the #1, had a lot of minor little fails along the way.  And it's too bad because there are so many moments I loved, and it had a really good story, both as a standalone movie and as part of the overall MCU multiverse saga as a whole.  Also had to dock it some points because it was a great film without the completely unnecessary LGBTQ+ propaganda, and Marvel would do well to figure out that a lot of its audience don't want to see that (and other objectionable content) in what many would consider "family films."  Sad that Hollywood feels the need to normalize sin, and this is the latest trend/version of that same problem.  Oh well.

I don't recall anything LGBTQ+ in it. What was that again? And "sin"? Really?

I think he's referring to America's parents being same sex. Which is actually canonistic to the comic.

Oh the fucking horror.

[King Postwhore]

Bosk1, you live in an age where yiu will see more and more LBGTQ+ driven stories.   While I may not understand it because I'm hardwired to be straight, I try to keep an open mind for others. I don't look at it as propaganda, I look at it as something now in the open.

[jingle.boy]

“Sin”. It’s 2023 ffs, not 1823. Perhaps P/R commentary that hardcore could stay in P/R?

[lonestar]

Yeah, LGBTQ+ is definitely a normal part of the human experience, and has been for millennia. Maybe it's time to ditch archaic religious ideals that only serve to separate us and teach us to hate? Jesus would've been totally cool with America's parents being gay, it's his fan base that has it totally wrong.

[jingle.boy]

Yeah, LGBTQ+ is definitely a normal part of the human experience, and has been for millennia. Maybe it's time to ditch archaic religious ideals that only serve to separate us and teach us to hate? Jesus would've been totally cool with America's parents being gay, it's his fan base that has it totally wrong.

Also, forum rule 5.

[jammindude]

Yeah, LGBTQ+ is definitely a normal part of the human experience, and has been for millennia. Maybe it's time to ditch archaic religious ideals that only serve to separate us and teach us to hate? Jesus would've been totally cool with America's parents being gay, it's his fan base that has it totally wrong.

We are truly getting into P/R territory here, but this is just flat out provably false.

[Adami]

So....how about that MODOK?

[lonestar]

Yeah, LGBTQ+ is definitely a normal part of the human experience, and has been for millennia. Maybe it's time to ditch archaic religious ideals that only serve to separate us and teach us to hate? Jesus would've been totally cool with America's parents being gay, it's his fan base that has it totally wrong.

We are truly getting into P/R territory here, but this is just flat out provably false.

Which part? That there have been gay people for millenia? Definitely fact. That Jesus would've been cool with it? I think that was his prime directive was to love each other, right?