Author Topic: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)  (Read 8609 times)

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #245 on: May 27, 2021, 08:28:18 AM »
I could be wrong, but the "Fine, I'll do it myself" scene is supposed to happened right before he goes to Xandar to get the Power Stone.

The fake gauntlet we see in Ragnarok was supposed to be from Odin's earlier days as as conqueror, which is why Hela knows it is fake. But the design was there, and it's why Thanos went to Nidavellir to get one made for him (real one).

Maybe I'm just reading to much into it, but that's how I saw it.

Again, I say "wait, what?"   Should I know this at this point?   Have I missed something if I don't even know there are two gauntlets out there? 
I could be wrong, but the "Fine, I'll do it myself" scene is supposed to happened right before he goes to Xandar to get the Power Stone.

The fake gauntlet we see in Ragnarok was supposed to be from Odin's earlier days as as conqueror, which is why Hela knows it is fake. But the design was there, and it's why Thanos went to Nidavellir to get one made for him (real one).

Maybe I'm just reading to much into it, but that's how I saw it.

Again, I say "wait, what?"   Should I know this at this point?   Have I missed something if I don't even know there are two gauntlets out there? 

The scene in Ragnarok where Hela knocks down the Infinity Gauntlet as fake, closes a plot point many hardcore fans saw or perceived as a loophole. In the first Thor movie, there is a tiny glimpse (literally a couple of frames) of the Infinity Gauntlet that got everyone very excited as the place where it was being stored.

In the 2nd Avengers movie, there was the post credit scene where they show Thanos grabbing the Infinity Gauntlet saying "Fine I'll do it myself". This brought about the conversation if Thanos had it all along, what was that in the 1st Thor movie. So while minor and inconsequential to 95% of MCU movie watchers, that scene in Ragnarok closes out that loophole.

Exactly.

Stadler, you are fine.  Everything that is being said comes from stuff you have already seen.  No idea what Chad is talking about, but he is mistaken.
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Offline Vmadera00

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #246 on: May 27, 2021, 08:34:13 AM »
I could be wrong, but the "Fine, I'll do it myself" scene is supposed to happened right before he goes to Xandar to get the Power Stone.

The fake gauntlet we see in Ragnarok was supposed to be from Odin's earlier days as as conqueror, which is why Hela knows it is fake. But the design was there, and it's why Thanos went to Nidavellir to get one made for him (real one).

Maybe I'm just reading to much into it, but that's how I saw it.

Again, I say "wait, what?"   Should I know this at this point?   Have I missed something if I don't even know there are two gauntlets out there?

Yes, you've seen these scenes (if you saw the mid-credit scene from Age of Ultron). Here is the Thanos one I mentioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d8VTAbotXY

Here is the one from Ragnarok, at 43 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGnIiA7oJvg


Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #247 on: May 27, 2021, 09:00:04 AM »
I could be wrong, but the "Fine, I'll do it myself" scene is supposed to happened right before he goes to Xandar to get the Power Stone.

The fake gauntlet we see in Ragnarok was supposed to be from Odin's earlier days as as conqueror, which is why Hela knows it is fake. But the design was there, and it's why Thanos went to Nidavellir to get one made for him (real one).

Maybe I'm just reading to much into it, but that's how I saw it.

Again, I say "wait, what?"   Should I know this at this point?   Have I missed something if I don't even know there are two gauntlets out there?

No. Literally none of it is important at all.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #248 on: May 27, 2021, 09:17:02 AM »
Okay, so I saw all of those and didn't put it together.  But I understand it now.

And in keeping with our previous discussion, I find Hela to be, well, hella sexy in that clip where she pushes over the gauntlet and says "fake!".

EDIT: ANNNNDDDDD...... I stumbled on this.   I don't know or care if it's true or not, but it certainly offers a perspective and some clarity as to what we've seen before.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 09:33:02 AM by Stadler »

Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #249 on: May 27, 2021, 09:55:15 AM »
Going back to the Age of Ultron post-credit scene, I actually thought it was pretty pointless.  At that stage, we already know there are infinity stones.  And we already know Thanos is out there.  Those with a minimal knowledge of Marvel comics history or those who have an Internet connection already knew some version of infinity war was going to be happening.  For those that knew, that scene added nothing.  And for those that didn't know, I don't think it added anything that would have made any sense.  Add to that the fact that, visually, that scene looked off.  So, it has always kinda bothered me.  There are some post-credit (or mid-credit) scenes that advance the overall MCU plot and usually come across as big reveals/teasers.  Others are just silly and fun (dancing baby Groot, for example), which is fine.  The Thanos/gauntlet one fits into the former category, but never felt like it was executed properly to me. 

EDIT:  Stadler, that theory has been floating around for awhile (note the date of that video).  I can't remember whether I've seen that specific video, but I've seen the theory.  We may have even discussed it in this thread (can't remember).  Ultimately, it doesn't really impact anything in any of the films, whether true or not.  But it's an interesting and fun theory that actually makes a lot of sense.  If forced to say whether I think there is any truth to it or not, I would guess that maybe he tried, but didn't succeed in finding them all, and possibly came to the conclusion part way through the quest that it was not a good idea, and that they should actually be kept separate, hence Volstagg and the others taking the reality stone to the collector at the end of The Dark World.  But who knows?
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 10:00:51 AM by bosk1 »
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #250 on: May 27, 2021, 10:25:31 AM »
Also, the most I get from that scene was the decision by Thanos to cut out the middlemen and get personally involved.

Ultimately, thatís what it ended up being. But at the time, it certainly implied that he had or was breaking in to Odinís vault to steal the Gauntlet. Helaís ďfakeĒ comment was a brilliant way to fix what was about to come - that Thanos needed a new/different Gauntlet. Without that one comment from Hell, there would have been no sense in the whole issue of Eitri making him a gauntlet.

THAT is what I was talking about - maybe it wasnít an actual ďretconĒ of the AOU mid credits scene, but kinda.  The three scenes create some manner of inconsistency in terms of timing, and purpose.

Just stumbled on this as an explanation, which I hadnít heard before - https://youtu.be/JdOwY4k33IM
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #251 on: May 27, 2021, 10:29:48 AM »
But at the time, it certainly implied that he had or was breaking in to Odinís vault to steal the Gauntlet.

???  No it doesn't.  The whole issue people had with that scene is that it pretty clearly is NOT Odin's vault.  It is a different gauntlet and different location altogether.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #252 on: May 27, 2021, 10:37:10 AM »
But at the time, it certainly implied that he had or was breaking in to Odinís vault to steal the Gauntlet.

???  No it doesn't.  The whole issue people had with that scene is that it pretty clearly is NOT Odin's vault.  It is a different gauntlet and different location altogether.

And if I'm following you, in both the first Thor movie and in Ragnarok, the gauntlet was standing up; in the mid-credits scene wasn't it lying on a sort of cradle in a nook?  That's what it looked like to me.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #253 on: May 27, 2021, 10:42:21 AM »
But at the time, it certainly implied that he had or was breaking in to Odinís vault to steal the Gauntlet.

???  No it doesn't.  The whole issue people had with that scene is that it pretty clearly is NOT Odin's vault.  It is a different gauntlet and different location altogether.

Hence the word he HAD (ie, prior to the events of that scene) ... I donít recall it was an insinuation/implication it was a 2nd Gauntlet.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #254 on: May 27, 2021, 11:20:17 AM »
But at the time, it certainly implied that he had or was breaking in to Odinís vault to steal the Gauntlet.

???  No it doesn't.  The whole issue people had with that scene is that it pretty clearly is NOT Odin's vault.  It is a different gauntlet and different location altogether.

Hence the word he HAD (ie, prior to the events of that scene) ... I donít recall it was an insinuation/implication it was a 2nd Gauntlet.

You mean, other than the fact that it looked completely different and was in a completely different location

People were pointing this out right after Ultron premiered, and Feige himself confirmed way back in 2015 that they were two different gauntlets. 
https://www.cinemablend.com/new/Big-Secret-Behind-Infinity-Gauntlet-According-Marvel-Kevin-Feige-71192.html
https://www.slashfilm.com/mcu-infinity-gauntlets-thanos/ 
Again, there was zero implication that what Thanos had came from Odin's vault. 
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #255 on: May 27, 2021, 11:56:13 AM »
Okey dokey then. I never knew any of that, or am completely misremembering. Itís not like we ever got anything other than a very grainy still image from Thor 1, so Iím unclear how everyone was supposed to know that they ďlooked completely differentĒ.

I still think there are flaws in the way they represented three different gauntlets, but whatever.  Iím gonna tap out now.
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Offline The Letter M

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #256 on: May 27, 2021, 12:13:17 PM »
I think the biggest tell that there was a fake gauntlet was that the one in Odin's vault was right-handed, whereas in the comics, and the films, Thanos' gauntlet was left-handed. I think the producers of Thor just threw in the "fake" gauntlet as an easter egg (as are most of the things in Odin's vault, which will likely never be revisited).

As for Thanos' credits scene in AOU, I think it was included for two reasons - to remind fans of who Thanos is (if they've only seen the first Avengers and/or perhaps haven't seen GOTG Vol. 1), and what his deal is with regards to collecting the Infinity Stones; and to bring back the off-shot side-quest that Thor went on, now that Thor was aware of the Infinity Stones' appearances in the MCU, his fate would then be further tied to Thanos and his quest to get them all.

As for the timing - I've heard that the AOU credits scene was retconned to take place not long before Infinity War, probably in the 2016/2017 time frame. Thanos would have already commissioned Eitri to craft the gauntlet for him, but left it in storage until he had a plan put together to start gathering the stones. One theory says that he didn't start his quest until he had learned of the death of Odin (at the beginning of Ragnarok), mostly because by that point, the Nine Realms would becoming unguarded, and so there'd be no protection from the Asgardians (who had the Tesseract, and knew where the Aether was being kept). At that point, all Thanos had to do was brute force his way past Xandar's Nova Corps and retrieve the Power Stone.

Of course, there's the real world explanation that these things just change over time because of different directors, producers, and changes in design. The gauntlet seen at the end of AOU was a bit different than the one we see in Infinity War, which are both different than the one seen in Thor/Ragnarok (which was proven fake anyway), but it's nice that some things can be explained away with retcons.

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #257 on: May 27, 2021, 01:14:07 PM »
(as are most of the things in Odin's vault, which will likely never be revisited).


Which of course is the oldest con in the book.  Hide in plain site!   Wasn't that used in National Treasure as well?

Offline Zook

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #258 on: May 28, 2021, 12:42:19 AM »
I was watching Civil War, a movie I've seen several times, and I only just now noticed that during the final fight, Iron Man was going to shoot Bucky point blank in the face with a rocket.

Offline DoctorAction

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #259 on: May 29, 2021, 12:29:37 AM »
I just finished my rewatch of Thor 2 that I started weeks ago. Man, that is a dull film that makes no sense (even in the context of fantasy comic book movies). Was pretty to look.

But - the Winter Soldier next, I believe! Woo!
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #260 on: May 29, 2021, 08:44:16 AM »
Not really related to the thread or the movie itself, but I always loved the title "Winter Soldier".  So evocative, and can mean so many things (maybe not in the context of the movie, but generally).
« Last Edit: June 01, 2021, 11:22:37 AM by Stadler »

Offline DoctorAction

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #261 on: May 31, 2021, 12:40:59 AM »
Side note: My absolute favourite comic book writer Ed Brubaker wrote the Winter Soldier arc for Marvel. I've not read that (not a superhero comic guy, in general, but mean to read it some day) but his other work (mainly crime and stuff) for Image Comics is amazing and well with checking out of you're remotely interested in that kind of action.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #262 on: May 31, 2021, 09:01:54 PM »
I've been piling through the meat and potatoes of the Netflix series again, and I'm reminded again that Vincent D'Onofrio's Fisk is hands down the best MCU villain. For me, it's not even close.

Offline jammindude

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #263 on: May 31, 2021, 10:50:19 PM »
I've been piling through the meat and potatoes of the Netflix series again, and I'm reminded again that Vincent D'Onofrio's Fisk is hands down the best MCU villain. For me, it's not even close.

I think itís very close, but I put Tennantís Kilgrave just above it.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #264 on: June 01, 2021, 07:57:13 AM »
While the acting is definitely comparable, I felt they just developed Fisk so much better, there's so much more flesh in the character,hes so brilliantly 3 dimensional.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #265 on: June 01, 2021, 11:34:51 AM »
I've been piling through the meat and potatoes of the Netflix series again, and I'm reminded again that Vincent D'Onofrio's Fisk is hands down the best MCU villain. For me, it's not even close.
Well, Loki and Thanos are both close, for me.

But Fisk is incredible.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #266 on: June 01, 2021, 03:06:32 PM »
I guess I've always been drawn to darker characters. I think the dynamic of Fisk vs Matt/Foggy/Karen was so perfectly grown through the three seasons.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #267 on: June 01, 2021, 04:36:17 PM »
I've been piling through the meat and potatoes of the Netflix series again, and I'm reminded again that Vincent D'Onofrio's Fisk is hands down the best MCU villain. For me, it's not even close.
Well, Loki and Thanos are both close, for me.

But Fisk is incredible.

I echo these sentiments as well. Loki is just so good, and part of that comes from the charm of Tom Hiddleston. I think comparing Fisk to any of the film villains is a bit unfair because Fisk had three seasons' worth of time to develop and become the villain he ended up being. There was a lot more time to dive into his past and character and see just what made him tick. But if you compared him to the other Netflix Marvel shows, he's definitely the best villain out of them all, with Kilgrave being second IMO. I honestly don't remember much about the others, except for maybe the ones in Luke Cage, and I honestly don't recall much about Iron Fist.

Speaking of the Netflix characters, what do you all think of the idea that if those characters return in the MCU played by the same actors/actresses, that they won't be the EXACT SAME characters from the shows? I've heard this idea/rumor spread about in recent months now that the rights for them have reverted back to Marvel Studios, and that they may want to bring back some (not all) of the actors to play those characters again (most notably Daredevil, Jessica Jones, and The Punisher), but they wouldn't link or connect to their shows from Netflix? It'd be a sort of multi-verseal type of thing, where they probably could not reference any of those stories, but at least still be played by the same people.

Would it be better just to recast all of them and start fresh with fresh actors? Or keep (some of) the same actors, even if they can't refer to the Netflix shows specifically?

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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #268 on: June 01, 2021, 06:08:42 PM »
Recast.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #269 on: June 01, 2021, 06:12:21 PM »
Recast Iron Fist and keep the rest.

Yes!
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #270 on: June 01, 2021, 06:29:02 PM »
But....he IS the immortal Iron Fist...
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #271 on: June 01, 2021, 06:30:08 PM »
 :lol

One of the best parts of all the Netflix shows was when like shut him down in the middle of that line.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #272 on: June 02, 2021, 10:03:37 AM »
It would be better to keep Charlie Cox, Krysten Ritter, and Vincent D'onofrio for sure, if they actually have plans for those characters.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #273 on: June 02, 2021, 10:36:40 AM »
It would be better to keep Charlie Cox, Krysten Ritter, and Vincent D'onofrio for sure, if they actually have plans for those characters.

Totally agree. It'd be a shame not to have a Tom Holland/D'onofrio match up.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #274 on: June 02, 2021, 05:53:18 PM »
By the way, anyone other than me have to look up "Mungo Jerry" after seeing Endgame?
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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #275 on: June 03, 2021, 09:12:02 AM »
I've been piling through the meat and potatoes of the Netflix series again, and I'm reminded again that Vincent D'Onofrio's Fisk is hands down the best MCU villain. For me, it's not even close.

Magneto was the best thing about the X-Men movies - both McKellen and Fassbender were great in the role.

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #276 on: June 03, 2021, 09:27:08 AM »
By the way, anyone other than me have to look up "Mungo Jerry" after seeing Endgame?
I knew who Mungo Jerry was from some of their music, but I definitely had to look them up in Google Images to get the joke.
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Offline lonestar

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #277 on: June 03, 2021, 11:46:21 AM »
I've been piling through the meat and potatoes of the Netflix series again, and I'm reminded again that Vincent D'Onofrio's Fisk is hands down the best MCU villain. For me, it's not even close.

Magneto was the best thing about the X-Men movies - both McKellen and Fassbender were great in the role.

McKellan is outstanding in everything. One of my greatest career moments was cooking him a grill cheese, with Bleu cheese added, side of tomato soup.

Offline Vmadera00

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #278 on: June 07, 2021, 06:57:55 AM »
Loki this Wednesday  :corn

I'm  very intrigued based on what I've seen so far :mehlin

Offline lonestar

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Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe thread v3 (no recent spoilers)
« Reply #279 on: June 07, 2021, 08:48:03 AM »
Very fucking stoked for Loki. :caffeine:

I think this is the one that just might blow the MCU wide open.