Author Topic: Falcon and Winter Soldier Official Thread - How they gonna use that power?  (Read 13495 times)

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Offline DoctorAction

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Re: Falcon and Winter Soldier Official Thread - She's here for Zemo
« Reply #70 on: April 10, 2021, 12:56:27 AM »
Enjoyed that one.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Falcon and Winter Soldier Official Thread - She's here for Zemo
« Reply #71 on: April 10, 2021, 05:17:17 AM »
Well that was an intense episode and ending, I kind of saw that turn coming but they handled it really well. Can't wait for next week, this shit is getting really good.

Yeah, ya just knew he was gonna go off the rails.  The show did a really excellent job of building up to it though.  Best episode so far, and jingle.son tells me it's only going to get more intense over the final 2 episodes.

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Offline lonestar

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Re: Falcon and Winter Soldier Official Thread - She's here for Zemo
« Reply #72 on: April 11, 2021, 09:34:38 AM »
I love how the shows are nailing the more emotional moments, how the writing is evolving so good. Between the 'love persevering' scene from WandaVision and the scene with them proving Bucky is finally free of his conditioning, they provided two of the best scenes in all Marvel in my opinion.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Falcon and Winter Soldier Official Thread - She's here for Zemo
« Reply #73 on: April 11, 2021, 11:08:45 AM »
I agree. That was some powerful shit. Also shows how tightly connected he is to the Wakandans.
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Offline lordxizor

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The extra time for character development and emotional moments are what are really setting the D+ shows apart from the MCU movies I think. Seeing these heroes and villains as people with complex motivations, thoughts and feelings is a welcome expansion on the previous MCU movies. Hopefully that continues.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Yep, episode 4 was fantastic.  That final shot of Walker holding the bloody shield was fantastic.
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Mrs. Orbert, myself, and Son of Orbert got into something like a three-way argument about John Walker.  We all have different positions on how much of a "good guy", "bad guy", or whatever you might want to call him.  I see a guy who didn't necessary want what was thrust upon him, and has made some mistakes, sure, but has had good intentions every step of the way.  He was put into a pretty impossible situation; live up to the Captain America legacy of Steve Rogers.  My wife just thinks he's an asshole and evil, and killing the dude with the shield proves that.  I agree that he's an asshole, killing the dude was wrong, but he'd just seen his best friend killed by these people, and IMO every one of them is a terrorist.  Maybe they didn't start out that way, but when Karli blew up the building with all those people inside, they crossed the line, and The Flag Smashers are all guilty now by association.

Mrs. O says he should've given Sam those ten minutes to talk to Karli.  Yeah, probably.  Sam seemed to be getting somewhere with her.  But from there it got out of control.  When all the vials except one were destroyed, I figured he pick it up, just in case.  Yep.  Then I said out loud that they'll get into it, and he'll feel like he has no choice but to take the serum.  Yep.  Then something bad will happen.  Not sure what, but something.  Yep.  And now shit is bad, really bad.

Offline Lonk

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I agree with your view that, he is not necessarily a bad guy, but has a lot of pressure on him to follow up on Steve rogers, and therefore making poor decisions. I would not say that he did not want it (the shield), I just think he did not realized what it meant to become Captain American. He feels he has to be a leader and get people to follow him and respect him, but he has no idea how to do that, specially with Bucky and Sam.

We will see, I think the show is going to lead to "battle for the shield" at the end between him and Sam.
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Offline The Letter M

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That opening scene in Wakanda with Bucky and Ayo was quite possibly one of the strongest emotional and most well-acted moments in all of the MCU. The use of the flashbacks from the all the films Bucky has been in was used to powerful effect, and his acting chops were Emmy-worthy, especially the look up he gives to Ayo when she says "You are free", as if he's making sure he is, just before she says it again to reassure him. Powerful and moving stuff.

Also props to Wyatt Russell for being so dedicated to a character that was slowly going off the rails. You could tell in every scene he was in that he was visibly twitching or shaking some part of his body, or looking very anxious, sometimes very subtly so, but it just adds to how slowly and steadily he was changing, especially after taking that last serum. He is full of angst and shame, anger and fear, but as others have said here, he was thrust into an impossible position, and sadly, he's used almost every opportunity he's had to look good and ended up looking worse. That final shot of the shield is definitely one of the scariest in all of the MCU, just for shock factor alone, but it really kind of speaks to the idea that a weapon and symbol in the wrong hands, regardless of how noble or powerful it is, can still become tainted, and sometimes all it takes is one bad thing to set someone off.

Gotta pour one out for Battlestar, though. It sucks that he had to go, but I understand that it was for the sake of getting Walker to the point he ended the episode at. Ironic, that the guy Walker kills, was a fan of Captain America because his grandfather also faught in WWII against the Nazis, but he ends up being killed by the shield he probably grew up idolizing.

I cannot imagine how things will go as we enter the third act (episodes 5 and 6), but there's a lot to wrap up in these last two episdes: Who exactly is the powerbroker? How will Sam and Bucky get the shield back (as seen in promotional trailers)? Will Torres ever come back (and become the 2nd Falcon like in the comics)? Will we see old-man-Steve on the Moon?

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Offline bosk1

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Who exactly is the powerbroker?

I was thinking that that could possibly end up being a setup for an upcoming film.  I mean, these episodes are definitely long enough where we could get a reveal and satisfying resolution by the end.  But it could also just as easily be a setup for the Power Broker being the big-bad in an upcoming film.
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Offline The Letter M

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Who exactly is the powerbroker?

I was thinking that that could possibly end up being a setup for an upcoming film.  I mean, these episodes are definitely long enough where we could get a reveal and satisfying resolution by the end.  But it could also just as easily be a setup for the Power Broker being the big-bad in an upcoming film.

There are rumors that it might be tied to the villain of Shang-Chi, which I could believe. This series was always going to come out before Shang-Chi anyway, so the set-up would have been intact. If we don't find out in this series, that's fine, but only so long as we find out EVENTUALLY who it is. There are few dangling threads in the MCU that bother me, but this would be one of them!

-Marc.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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An interesting rumor I've seen bandied about is that the Power Broker is Sharon Carter.

I don't believe it, but that would be interesting.
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Offline The Letter M

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An interesting rumor I've seen bandied about is that the Power Broker is Sharon Carter.

I don't believe it, but that would be interesting.

I've heard that too, but it just doesn't make sense, because it clearly seems like she is working FOR (or under) the Powerbroker. Also, she was dusted in the five year gap, and it would be weird for her to amass the power that the Powerbroker seems to have around Madripoor (and the world, it seems) in just six short months. I think she came back in the blip, went on the run to Madripoor, and then got hired by the Powerbroker because of her situation and unique skill set. The way she handled those goons in episode 3, you can tell she's been in some fights, and definitely would be a good go-fer for someone like the Powerbroker.

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Offline Adami

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First of all, yes the episode was amazing. As much as I liked episode 3, it did feel pretty rushed and jolted. This one was pretty perfect. The character work they're doing is incredible and I really didn't expect it. I just kind of expected a typical well done action show.


As far as Sharon being the power broker, from what I've read, she was blipped along with half the world. So unless she became the power broken in a few weeks, I don't see it necessarily being her in a way that makes much sense.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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That's why it's a twist!
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Offline Adami

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That's why it's a twist!

True!

She also got her super serum maker killed. Seems like she'd be a very bad power broker.
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Offline The Letter M

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That's why it's a twist!

True!

She also got her super serum maker killed. Seems like she'd be a very bad power broker.

Good point - if he was so important to the Powerbroker, she definitely would not have let him die so easily, especially letting Zemo anywhere near him considering his hatred for super soldiers was fairly well known by those around him.

I think she'll definitely have to answer for letting him die, though, either by paying for it with her own life, or with Zemo's life. I can see her and the Dora Milaje trying to capture Zemo by the end of the series as Bucky and Sam figure out what to do about Walker at the shield's legacy. Also, I hope we see the Bradleys one more time before the series ends.

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Offline ariich

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How do we actually know that she was blipped? Because she said so?

And if she was the Power Broker but didn't want people to know, the obvious thing to do would be pretend that she works for and is afraid of him/her.

So yeah I don't have any particular expectation that it is the case, but I do think it's plausible and would be a cool twist.

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Offline jammindude

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Who exactly is the powerbroker?

I was thinking that that could possibly end up being a setup for an upcoming film.  I mean, these episodes are definitely long enough where we could get a reveal and satisfying resolution by the end.  But it could also just as easily be a setup for the Power Broker being the big-bad in an upcoming film.

There are rumors that it might be tied to the villain of Shang-Chi, which I could believe. This series was always going to come out before Shang-Chi anyway, so the set-up would have been intact. If we don't find out in this series, that's fine, but only so long as we find out EVENTUALLY who it is. There are few dangling threads in the MCU that bother me, but this would be one of them!

-Marc.

The big bad in Shang-Chi is supposed to be The Mandarin.  The *actual* Mandarin this time.

Now, as to whether or not those two ideas could be related, I have no idea.

Power Broker = The Mandarin????
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Offline The Letter M

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How do we actually know that she was blipped? Because she said so?

And if she was the Power Broker but didn't want people to know, the obvious thing to do would be pretend that she works for and is afraid of him/her.

So yeah I don't have any particular expectation that it is the case, but I do think it's plausible and would be a cool twist.

I do believe she was seen as one of the missing in the beginning of Endgame.



Granted, she was still around for about two years between Civil War and the snap in Infinity War, so she may have amassed some influence in that time, but to be gone for five years and come back and still be the Powerbroker seems unlikely, especially since the balance of powers around the globe changed drastically.

Who exactly is the powerbroker?

I was thinking that that could possibly end up being a setup for an upcoming film.  I mean, these episodes are definitely long enough where we could get a reveal and satisfying resolution by the end.  But it could also just as easily be a setup for the Power Broker being the big-bad in an upcoming film.

There are rumors that it might be tied to the villain of Shang-Chi, which I could believe. This series was always going to come out before Shang-Chi anyway, so the set-up would have been intact. If we don't find out in this series, that's fine, but only so long as we find out EVENTUALLY who it is. There are few dangling threads in the MCU that bother me, but this would be one of them!

-Marc.

The big bad in Shang-Chi is supposed to be The Mandarin.  The *actual* Mandarin this time.

Now, as to whether or not those two ideas could be related, I have no idea.

Power Broker = The Mandarin????

It definitely is a theory I've seen a lot about. The Ten Rings have had a lot of reach in the MCU over the years, between their appearance in Iron Man, and seeing a Ten Rings supporter among the guys wanting to buy Yellowjacket tech in Ant-Man, the REAL Mandarin could have power enough to be the Powerbroker in disguise. Madripoor is in South East Asia, so there could be a close connection to the Ten Rings there. And with Shang-Chi coming out this year, it wouldn't surprise me if this was a set-up for that film. The Mandarin being the Powerbroker just seems as likely as Sharon.

-Marc.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Jingle.son said there’s also a theory it’s General Ross.
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Offline Adami

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Jingle.son said there’s also a theory it’s General Ross.

I dunno. He also seems like the kind of guy who wants complete control and oversight. I guess maybe if they invent that during the blip he went crazy or something, but the Ross we all know wouldn't be the power broker. It's just outside of his character.

I'd be fine if it's not someone we already know.



Or....IT'S MEPHISTO!
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EVERYTHING IS MEPHISTO
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Offline bosk1

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WHY IS MEPHISTO?
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The Power Broker is Senor Scratchy.

Offline ariich

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How do we actually know that she was blipped? Because she said so?

And if she was the Power Broker but didn't want people to know, the obvious thing to do would be pretend that she works for and is afraid of him/her.

So yeah I don't have any particular expectation that it is the case, but I do think it's plausible and would be a cool twist.

I do believe she was seen as one of the missing in the beginning of Endgame.
Missing, sure. Doesn't mean she was blipped.

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Offline hefdaddy42

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The Power Broker is going to be Luis from Ant-Man.
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The Power Broker is going to be Luis from Ant-Man.

It will be explained by him like in the 1st movie.  Mad skillz.
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Offline lordxizor

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"The power broker" is a horrible nickname.

Offline Orbert

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How do we actually know that she was blipped? Because she said so?

And if she was the Power Broker but didn't want people to know, the obvious thing to do would be pretend that she works for and is afraid of him/her.

So yeah I don't have any particular expectation that it is the case, but I do think it's plausible and would be a cool twist.

I do believe she was seen as one of the missing in the beginning of Endgame.
Missing, sure. Doesn't mean she was blipped.

That's what I've seen as well.  I don't know if I buy it, but it could work.  Sharon went AWOL when things went to hell, and it was just assumed she was blipped.  Scott Lang (Ant-Man) was also assumed blipped, and he was in the quantum realm.

Basically, whoever determined who was blipped was not infallable.  Heck, there were probably more than a few people who took the opportunity to disappear and start up somewhere else.  Half the world's population gone, mass chaos and outright anarchy in some places, who knows?  Maybe Sharon spent five years building up a new identity as The Power Broker.  Again, I don't buy it, but it's not completely impossible.

Offline Adami

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I don't think Marvel has ever relied on "Well...we didn't TECHNICALLY say...." kind of stuff. But who knows?

I also don't know what Sharon's motivation would be. She was always presented as a good person who wanted to help. I dunno why she would suddenly handing out super serum and empowering terrorists. Is it possible? I guess sure. But it would seem very very out of left field and, honestly, kind of disappointing.

I don't know why it has to be someone we already know. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. I just hope this doesn't turn into a Mephisto or Quicksilver thing. Where people spend weeks building up theories only to have a very....less than satisfying answer to it.

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Offline jammindude

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What if the power broker was Howard the Duck?  :corn
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Offline Adami

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What if the power broker was Howard the Duck?  :corn

Dammit. Now I’ll be disappointed if it’s anyone else.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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What if the power broker was Howard the Duck?  :corn

Dammit. Now I’ll be disappointed if it’s anyone else.
Same.

Perhaps Forbush Man?
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Offline ariich

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I don't think Marvel has ever relied on "Well...we didn't TECHNICALLY say...." kind of stuff. But who knows?

I also don't know what Sharon's motivation would be. She was always presented as a good person who wanted to help. I dunno why she would suddenly handing out super serum and empowering terrorists. Is it possible? I guess sure. But it would seem very very out of left field and, honestly, kind of disappointing.
Yeah, but she was a fugitive on the run after the events of Civil War so in general I could see her taking on a role like that as a local crime boss, though I agree the handing out super serum stuff would be a bit different and a weird turn for the character. But if that is where they go with it, there could be a good explanation (like it wasn't really her distributing the serum, or some such).

Quote
I don't know why it has to be someone we already know. Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. I just hope this doesn't turn into a Mephisto or Quicksilver thing. Where people spend weeks building up theories only to have a very....less than satisfying answer to it.

"It was just some dude all along."
Yeah for sure, like I say I'm not particularly expecting that it is the case, just that it's perfectly plausible if they do go down that route.

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