Poll

How do you feel about the use of harsh or growling "cookie monster" vocals in music?

I love them and wish all bands would use them
11 (10.2%)
I think they're OK
26 (24.1%)
I can take them or leave them
14 (13%)
I'm not a fan but I still listen to some bands who use them
40 (37%)
Hate them and won't listen to bands who use them
17 (15.7%)

Total Members Voted: 108

Author Topic: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?  (Read 7235 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online twosuitsluke

  • Posts: 10533
  • Gender: Male
  • Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #70 on: February 18, 2021, 01:28:54 PM »
As I said before, Pantera and Children of Bodom were the bands where I really forced myself to persevere with the vocals.
Given that there's so much other music out there that I have yet to explore, the *last* thing I want to do is force myself to listen to something that is repulsive to me. There's no need for me to waste my time or energy.

Well I wasn't forcing myself to listen to something that was repulsive on the whole. I always loved the music but went from hating the vocals, and being pissed that these great songs were ruined, to kinda tolerating them to a point I could enjoy the music. Then finally to a place where I appreciated and loved them. I get your point of view. I guess I was just never as repulsed as you are?

I was once at a fork in the road where I could've given up on harsh vocals and vowed never to listen to them, or to persevere and see if I could get past this thing that was holding me back from this fucking incredible music. I chose to persevere, so for me it was never a waste of time of energy. Totally the opposite as it paid off. I can't imagine a world without harsh vocals in it now, and I wouldn't have it any other way  :heart

Offline Podaar

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9894
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #71 on: February 18, 2021, 01:38:41 PM »
As I said before, Pantera and Children of Bodom were the bands where I really forced myself to persevere with the vocals.
Given that there's so much other music out there that I have yet to explore, the *last* thing I want to do is force myself to listen to something that is repulsive to me. There's no need for me to waste my time or energy.

Well I wasn't forcing myself to listen to something that was repulsive on the whole. I always loved the music but went from hating the vocals, and being pissed that these great songs were ruined, to kinda tolerating them to a point I could enjoy the music. Then finally to a place where I appreciated and loved them. I get your point of view. I guess I was just never as repulsed as you are?

I was once at a fork in the road where I could've given up on harsh vocals and vowed never to listen to them, or to persevere and see if I could get past this thing that was holding me back from this fucking incredible music. I chose to persevere, so for me it was never a waste of time of energy. Totally the opposite as it paid off. I can't imagine a world without harsh vocals in it now, and I wouldn't have it any other way  :heart

I count myself fortunate that I didn't have to persevere, as you put it, with Pantera. The first time I heard Mouth For War back in the '90's, I was sold.
"Religion poisons everything” — Christopher Hitchens

Offline wolfking

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 46255
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #72 on: February 18, 2021, 02:04:22 PM »
As I said before, Pantera and Children of Bodom were the bands where I really forced myself to persevere with the vocals.
Given that there's so much other music out there that I have yet to explore, the *last* thing I want to do is force myself to listen to something that is repulsive to me. There's no need for me to waste my time or energy.

Well I wasn't forcing myself to listen to something that was repulsive on the whole. I always loved the music but went from hating the vocals, and being pissed that these great songs were ruined, to kinda tolerating them to a point I could enjoy the music. Then finally to a place where I appreciated and loved them. I get your point of view. I guess I was just never as repulsed as you are?

I was once at a fork in the road where I could've given up on harsh vocals and vowed never to listen to them, or to persevere and see if I could get past this thing that was holding me back from this fucking incredible music. I chose to persevere, so for me it was never a waste of time of energy. Totally the opposite as it paid off. I can't imagine a world without harsh vocals in it now, and I wouldn't have it any other way  :heart

I count myself fortunate that I didn't have to persevere, as you put it, with Pantera. The first time I heard Mouth For War back in the '90's, I was sold.

That song is so incredible.  You can't help but to feel powerful as soon as you hear the 'REVEEENNNGGGEEE!!'.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline BelichickFan

  • Posts: 398
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #73 on: February 18, 2021, 02:22:21 PM »
I generally don't like them but I love both Arch Enemy and Mors Principium Est.  I would actually love to hear their albums done with clean vocals too, I think that would be fun to release the same album as a double CD, one with growling vocals, the other with clean vocals.

Offline darkshade

  • Posts: 4251
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #74 on: February 18, 2021, 02:34:59 PM »
Opeth is the only music I listen to with any growls in it, aside from when other bands might do it as an exception to what they usually do (see: BC&SL)

Offline kirksnosehair

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 8521
  • Gender: Male
  • Bryce & Kylie's Grandpa
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2021, 03:09:24 PM »
For those that hate growls, why exactly do you not like them?  What is it about them you find such a turn off? You like distorted guitars, so what is the difference between that and some vocals?


The difference is melody.  Harsh vocals generally express zero melody, they are rarely intelligible, and they are far too often used as a crutch for bands with shitty vocalists.   To me, the last couple of albums Opeth made with harsh vocals were a really good example of how to use them effectively, especially on "Heritage" which is the penultimate Opeth album, in my opinion.

Any band that uses 100% harsh vocals is a no-go for me.  I just find it immensely boring because it removes one of the elements of vocals that I find most compelling and necessary for my enjoyment of a song and that is good vocal melodies.  There is no such thing as a growled melody, it's just not really doable.  It's kind of like asking for a "dry" cup of water. 


Take bands like Trivium, especially on their last few albums, I think they are another example of a band who effectively uses the harsh vocals to express rage, anger, frustration, etc and it's very, very effective and tolerable for someone like me who doesn't care for the style at all, but is willing to tolerate it in small doses.

But yeah, my primary beef with it is I find a LOT of bands use harsh vocals because no one in the band can sing.  And some of them are just ridiculous sounding.  I just can't take it seriously.  It might just be because I'm a grouchy old man, though  :lol

Offline Buddyhunter1

  • Professional Mellotron Spotter
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 6899
  • Gender: Male
  • Observe The Train
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #76 on: February 18, 2021, 03:44:19 PM »
the last couple of albums Opeth made with harsh vocals were a really good example of how to use them effectively, especially on "Heritage"

I think you mean Watershed :biggrin:
BUDDYHUNTER | Debut Demo Out Now! FREE DOWNLOAD: https://buddyhunter.bandcamp.com/
RYM: https://rateyourmusic.com/~buddyhunter1

Offline SoundscapeMN

  • Posts: 6431
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #77 on: February 18, 2021, 03:57:58 PM »
if you can listen to them and hear other parts of the music that you love, than they don't ruin the music. Granted, I can attest to finding some bands whose vocalists I don't care for, ruin music I might enjoy. So I can relate to the issue with them, it's just in a lot of cases, the growling or shrieks don't distract me, and eventually seem to complement the music.

Some exceptions tho. Some of the hardcore punk or posthardcore bands, the vocals suck, and are at times too high in the mix to not distract, I think of bands like Deftones or Thrice even as examples of that.

But with a lot of Death and tech/death, the vocalists often can complement the music. I suppose it can depend on how samey they may sound, on a song or album. There are examples when every vocal line sounds very much the same, and ends up hurting the music. I guess it can depend on how much they are used, and if they mix them with clean vocals.

Offline BelichickFan

  • Posts: 398
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #78 on: February 18, 2021, 04:00:19 PM »
For those that hate growls, why exactly do you not like them?  What is it about them you find such a turn off? You like distorted guitars, so what is the difference between that and some vocals?

The difference is melody.  Harsh vocals generally express zero melody

True.  But listen to the music behind this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWgryf5CXtU

I don't like death metal.  But Arch Enemy and, especially, Mors Principium Est are incredible.

The final solo:

"The final emotional solo from the upcoming Mors Principium Est album, "Seven". I really channelled John Petrucci on this one and decided to listen to every Dreamtheater album back to back in one sitting. 9 weeks later, I emerged from my room and recorded this."

https://fb.watch/3KGKLD1ZE7/

Offline wolfking

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 46255
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #79 on: February 18, 2021, 05:46:16 PM »
For those that hate growls, why exactly do you not like them?  What is it about them you find such a turn off? You like distorted guitars, so what is the difference between that and some vocals?


The difference is melody.  Harsh vocals generally express zero melody, they are rarely intelligible, and they are far too often used as a crutch for bands with shitty vocalists.   To me, the last couple of albums Opeth made with harsh vocals were a really good example of how to use them effectively, especially on "Heritage" which is the penultimate Opeth album, in my opinion.

Any band that uses 100% harsh vocals is a no-go for me.  I just find it immensely boring because it removes one of the elements of vocals that I find most compelling and necessary for my enjoyment of a song and that is good vocal melodies.  There is no such thing as a growled melody, it's just not really doable.  It's kind of like asking for a "dry" cup of water. 


Take bands like Trivium, especially on their last few albums, I think they are another example of a band who effectively uses the harsh vocals to express rage, anger, frustration, etc and it's very, very effective and tolerable for someone like me who doesn't care for the style at all, but is willing to tolerate it in small doses.

But yeah, my primary beef with it is I find a LOT of bands use harsh vocals because no one in the band can sing.  And some of them are just ridiculous sounding.  I just can't take it seriously.  It might just be because I'm a grouchy old man, though  :lol

Great answer Barry, much appreciated.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 13557
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #80 on: February 18, 2021, 07:37:10 PM »
it’s the metal version of rap.

 :lol

By the way, possibly the very worst thing DT ever did was that version of Damage, Inc. on 5YIAL.  If I recall correctly, even JM started laughing when the guy started to "sing."

When I first saw that, before the vocals, I thought "uh... that isn't James right?" I mean, his hair was similar, and with it in his face, it could have been hard to tell for a second or two, then the "singing" started, I was pretty damn confused. I didn't recognize it as a DT song, and didn't listen to Metallica. I didn't recognize the singer, who by now was obviously not James. Then they went in to another song I didn't know, with a different singer, who this time sounded like a dying cat. What in the blue hell kinda concert was this?
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74062
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #81 on: February 18, 2021, 07:46:45 PM »
A lot of people have mentioned Devin Townsend, but he has to have some of the most unpleasant harsh vocals I've ever heard.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Grappler

  • Posts: 3408
  • Gender: Male
  • Victory, Illinois Varsity
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2021, 07:50:55 PM »
A lot of people have mentioned Devin Townsend, but he has to have some of the most unpleasant harsh vocals I've ever heard.

Detox is the song that got me into Strapping Young Lad several years ago.  I'm not much for the wall-of-sound style of his solo records (but love Ocean Machine!), but SYL has some awesome songs.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 41963
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #83 on: February 18, 2021, 07:53:48 PM »
A lot of people have mentioned Devin Townsend, but he has to have some of the most unpleasant harsh vocals I've ever heard.

What's crazy for me is that I generally hate screaming vocals, yet Addicted, which features Devin in full screaming mode, is not only my favorite Devin song, but one of my favorite songs by anyone.  No clue how that happened, except that Devin is a magician.  :biggrin: :lol

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 74062
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #84 on: February 18, 2021, 07:55:20 PM »
Yeah, Devin Townsend is unlistenable to me.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline wolfking

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 46255
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #85 on: February 18, 2021, 07:58:47 PM »
A lot of people have mentioned Devin Townsend, but he has to have some of the most unpleasant harsh vocals I've ever heard.

I'm a casual fan, but I can understand that.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline HOF

  • Posts: 8633
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #86 on: February 18, 2021, 09:17:20 PM »
Haken’s The Architect is one of the only songs I own that has them and I just groan when that part starts. Thankfully there is an instrumental version of the song that I can listen to instead.

It’s a style of music that I can’t really connect with on any level. Just not for me.

Offline ProfessorPeart

  • MP.com Refugee
  • Posts: 3195
  • Gender: Male
  • Lubed In The Face
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #87 on: February 18, 2021, 10:19:13 PM »
Forgot Ihsahn when I made my post. Listening to some of him right now (the After album - my fave of his). I never thought I could like vocals like his, but it doesn't bother me at all, and didn't from the get-go. I immediately fell in love with his stuff. His music is just amazing. I also picked up the last Emperor album. I don't know, like I said, I can't explain why I gravitate to someone with odd harsh vocals and think others are terrible. As I get older, I seem to be tolerating them more and more. Would've thought I'd be into country by now or something but my tastes are getting heavier and heavier.
beul ni teh efac = Lube In The Face / That has to be wrong.  :lol / EDIT: Oh, it's Blue! I'm an idiot.
Pardon the interruption, but I just had to run in and celebrate the majesty of Lube in the Face as highest moment in roulette history

Offline Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15690
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #88 on: February 18, 2021, 10:19:41 PM »
Even though I don't like calling this a genre, but it is known as one, Djent is a genre that I only have a problem with being picky with both Growls and the Clean Vocals.

For me, The best clean vocalist I like is Daniel Tompkins in Tesseract, but I don't really like his growls all too much. Growls would be Spencer Sotelo from Periphery, I don't really like his clean vocals. But the music, even that I am a bit picky with. I guess the best Djent music I've heard would be Tetrafusion, they also have a good mix of clean and growls as well. That good Djent combo for me would be a mix of all three, but with Arch Echo's music.

That's just in the Djent Genre, but then I haven't really dug into it much at all.  :biggrin:

Overall, my favorite Grunters/Growlers would be

Mikael Akerfeldt
George Oosthoek
Michael Stanne
Christian Älvestam

Shriekers:

Chuck Schuldiner
Warrel Dane
Bobby Blitz

All this shows is just how much I listen to Growls, and it's not much. I don't seek it out, but These are the ones I listen to mainly. I am sure there are others that I would consider better if I listened to them.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline Zook

  • Evil Incarnate
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 14144
  • Gender: Male
  • Take My Hand
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #89 on: February 19, 2021, 03:08:01 AM »
I used to hate growls. I still think they're silly and unnecessary, but I can take them in small doses. For some reason, Into Eternity is the only band (on 2 of their albums) where I actually enjoy the growls and shrieks. Harsh vocals, like when Corey Taylor is shouting and actually conveying emotions, I like, unlike most growlers who sound like cookie monster or a cave troll, or Mike Portnoy trying to sound tough.


Offline Kwyjibo

  • Worse troll than Blabbermouth
  • Posts: 5996
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #90 on: February 19, 2021, 03:47:34 AM »
But yeah, my primary beef with it is I find a LOT of bands use harsh vocals because no one in the band can sing.

Yeah sure, those bands meet in the rehearsal room, they actually want to cover Queen songs, then they realise no one can really sing so they switch to growly death metal.  ;)

And there are a lot of harsh vocalists out there that can also sing clean really good.

And just because: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5rg_63Shqg   :metal :metal :metal
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline bl5150

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 9132
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #91 on: February 19, 2021, 03:51:54 AM »

And just because: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5rg_63Shqg   :metal :metal :metal

Was quite listenable until the growls  ;D
"I would just like to say that after all these years of heavy drinking, bright lights and late nights, I still don't need glasses. I drink right out of the bottle." - DLR

www.theguitardojo.com.au

Offline Kwyjibo

  • Worse troll than Blabbermouth
  • Posts: 5996
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #92 on: February 19, 2021, 04:08:45 AM »
I expected that  ;D
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44538
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #93 on: February 19, 2021, 06:20:22 AM »
I'm just curious where the forum comes down on this?  I'm guessing I am in the minority here, because I strongly dislike harsh vocals.  To me, they ruin otherwise great music in many cases.   I can take them in very, very small doses once in a while but generally speaking the minute I hear growls I lose interest.  And I've lost count of the number of bands I've discovered on Amazon.com music only to get a minute or two into their album and hear the growling start.  Instant turnoff and delete from phone. 


Now I could be way off base here, but I suspect there is an age correlation to this.  It won't be a hard set rule but I think on average the people who like growling will trend younger and the people who dislike them will trend older.

I could've written this word-for-word.  I voted the 4th (and most popular) option.

My position on harsh vocals hasn't changed in 10+ years.  If done tastefully, in moderation, and fits the mood/vibe of the song and lyrics, I'm can be ok with them.  My gold-standard example in this is Rage of Despair by Flaming Row.

If an album / song is 100% growls/harsh/scream-o, it's a hard pass.  I can't think of a song that is 100% harsh that I would stick through.  To some degree, it depends on *how* harsh.  Like Devin... I can dig some (a lot?) of his stuff.  Dan Swano... same.  But once it crosses from harsh to growls, thanks but no thanks.


For those that hate growls, why exactly do you not like them?  What is it about them you find such a turn off? You like distorted guitars, so what is the difference between that and some vocals?
To a large degree, distorted guitars still have melody that is enjoyable. Cookie monster vocals do not - they are pure noise to my ears. I view music that lacks melody in the same way,

I'm along the same lines (as well as Bill's and Paul's comments - 'metal version of rap'  :lol :tup).  I don't think the comparison to guitar tones is entirely apples-to-apples.  I think there are dozens (if not more) of kinds of sounds we can hear from guitars.  We're used to artists modifying, tweaking, experimenting with their sound with that instrument.  With vocals, there's only a few different ways of singing - disregarding different genres/pitch/tone/etc...  Once the voice stops being an instrument to deliver words, I'm out. I just don't hear any musicality to growls the way I do clean vocals.  Plus, the anger/aggression issue that was referenced.

As I said before, Pantera and Children of Bodom were the bands where I really forced myself to persevere with the vocals.
Given that there's so much other music out there that I have yet to explore, the *last* thing I want to do is force myself to listen to something that is repulsive to me. There's no need for me to waste my time or energy.

Hammer, meet nail.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #94 on: February 19, 2021, 07:33:23 AM »
Quote
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?

In moderation and in context. I can't listen to bands who have 100% harsh vocals.

And bands like Cannibal Corpse where it's just RORORORORORORORO - no. Fuck off.

Mastodon yes - because they use them in context and for effect. See also Trivium.

Prefer James Hetfield though - who sings 100% clean - but can use grit and growl in his cleans when needed.

Offline Kwyjibo

  • Worse troll than Blabbermouth
  • Posts: 5996
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #95 on: February 19, 2021, 07:40:23 AM »

We're used to artists modifying, tweaking, experimenting with their sound with that instrument.


And this is not restricted to guitars, artists do this with every instrument available. So why not with the voice also?

Now I'm not saying that you should therefore like it. I don't like every guitar tone, every keyboard sample, every triggered snare drum etc. and I don't like every harsh vocal, just as I don't like every clean vocal. It's all a matter of taste and that's okay and that's all that matters.

And critizising growls for not being melodic is beside the point, they are not meant to be melodic.

And, and maybe this is just me, but harsh vocals can convey much more emotions than just anger or rage. Even the opposite spectrum of calm and beauty (maybe more in a melancholic way) is possible.

And if done right there can be a lot of power and (positive) energy in there.

Again, not trying to convince anyone and not saying you're wrong, because you aren't. But just saying there's more to it than unmusical noise.
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline MirrorMask

  • Posts: 13319
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #96 on: February 19, 2021, 07:43:40 AM »
Prefer James Hetfield though - who sings 100% clean - but can use grit and growl in his cleans when needed.

Halo on Fire live:

Deprive, deprive
To feel so alive
Obey, obey >:(
Just don't turn away.....
I use my sig to pimp some bands from Italy! Check out Elvenking (Power / Folk metal), Folkstone (Rock / Medieval metal), Arcana Opera (Gothic/Noir/Heavy metal) and the beautiful voice of Elisa!

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #97 on: February 19, 2021, 07:44:12 AM »
One of my favourite *moments* of Harsh Vocals.

( it jumps to the exact moment ) :)

https://youtu.be/FpWYpaMTOi0?t=199


Quote
Halo on Fire live:

Deprive, deprive
To feel so alive
Obey, obey >:(
Just don't turn away.....

 :metal Hetfield

Offline jingle.boy

  • I'm so ronery; so sad and ronery
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 44538
  • Gender: Male
  • DTF's resident deceased dictator
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #98 on: February 19, 2021, 07:53:37 AM »

We're used to artists modifying, tweaking, experimenting with their sound with that instrument.


And this is not restricted to guitars, artists do this with every instrument available. So why not with the voice also?

Now I'm not saying that you should therefore like it. I don't like every guitar tone, every keyboard sample, every triggered snare drum etc. and I don't like every harsh vocal, just as I don't like every clean vocal. It's all a matter of taste and that's okay and that's all that matters.

Agreed completely (on the underlined).  I guess for my tastes, I've been hearing instrumental musicians tweak their sound since the 60s, so there's been a lot of exposure to different sounds and styles of guitar (and keys, and bass).  I've no doubt that people hearing Black Sabbath in the 70s who were accustomed to Buddy Holly were just as put off. 

And critizising growls for not being melodic is beside the point, they are not meant to be melodic.

If it wasn't clear, I'm not criticizing them for not being melodic, just answering why I don't often like them.  Steak is not meant to be well done; I'm not going to be critical to the person that likes it that way.  It's just not for me.

Again, not trying to convince anyone and not saying you're wrong, because you aren't. But just saying there's more to it than unmusical noise.

I'm not trying to convince anyone either, or indicate why I'm right and others are wrong - just explaining why they don't often float my boat.  You hear more to it than unmusical noise, that's awesome.  For the most part, I don't.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
Quote from: Puppies_On_Acid
Remember the mark of a great vocalist is if TAC hates them with a special passion

Offline Kotowboy

  • Yes THAT Kotowboy.
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 28561
  • Gender: Male
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #99 on: February 19, 2021, 07:54:39 AM »
The best harsh vocals are the ones where they can still pitch. Like Troy Sanders or Randall Blythe etc.

Offline Lonk

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6001
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #100 on: February 19, 2021, 07:56:51 AM »
If it wasn't clear, I'm not criticizing them for not being melodic, just answering why I don't often like them.  Steak is not meant to be well done; I'm not going to be critical to the person that likes it that way.  It's just not for me.

Thank you for not judging my steak preference lol
Vmadera has evolved into Lonk

Offline Stadler

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 42989
  • Gender: Male
  • Pointing out the "unfunny" since 2014!
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #101 on: February 19, 2021, 08:22:10 AM »
A lot of people have mentioned Devin Townsend, but he has to have some of the most unpleasant harsh vocals I've ever heard.

I'm not the resident Devin expert, I'm a dabbler.   But I like the mix, like on Steve Vai's album, and on Transcendence.  I don't really consider that "growls" or "harsh".   I have yet to hear a SYL song that I like; that IS unlistenable to me.

It's hard to put into words; there's "screaming" and there's "screaming".  They're not the same thing.

Offline WildRanger

  • Posts: 1301
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #102 on: February 19, 2021, 08:24:16 AM »
Voted "I can take them or leave them".
I love Opeth, Agalloch, latter-era Death, Insomnium, Moonsorrow and latter-era Enslaved, so I don't mind their vocals.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 10:24:39 AM by WildRanger »

Offline WildRanger

  • Posts: 1301
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #103 on: February 19, 2021, 08:30:20 AM »

Now I could be way off base here, but I suspect there is an age correlation to this.  It won't be a hard set rule but I think on average the people who like growling will trend younger and the people who dislike them will trend older.

That's absolutely true.


Offline DoctorAction

  • Posts: 1960
  • Everyday Glory
Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #104 on: February 19, 2021, 08:41:25 AM »
I put take or leave. Much of my favourite music of all time has harsh vocals and some of my favourite vocal moments of all time are with harsh elements. Most of what i listen to now is clean vocals, mind.

I dislike generic death, black or whatever-core harsh vocals but there are exceptional vocalists in all those genres.

The woman from Jinjer is amazingly versatile but her harsh voice is the epitome of generic. It could be anyone. Same with the Cannibal Corpse mode.

Absolutely adore Devin, Ihsahn, Tom Araya, LG Petrov, Jens Kidder, Akerfeldt, Phil Anselmo, etc. Devin especially is a vocal GOD.

All of those guys have their own thing. There are just so many "satisfactory" level harsh vocalists that sound the same.
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.