Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?

[ozzy554]

I like harsh vocals but I'm picky about it. Here is what I usually look for.

1. The singer has to be able to enunciate. I can't stand it when it just sounds like unintelligible garbage (Chris Barnes)

2. The music surrounding it has to be good.

3. At least semi-decent production.

[jjrock88]

Love, love, love them.

Hate, hate, hate them.

[wolfking]

Love, love, love them.

Hate, hate, hate them.

   what took you so long?

[Kwyjibo]

Love them, but don't want all bands to use them, that would be just stupid.

And like every other singing style, there are good ones and bad ones.

[twosuitsluke]

Yea I voted for the top option, but that's not my true feelings. I just like them more than thinking they're "ok".

[MirrorMask]

I'm between the fourth and the fifth option. I really, really DO NOT LIKE AT ALL harsh vocals. But I'm not an integralist about it to the point that I refuse on principle to listen to any band who uses them. I like Haggard, mainly for the symphonic stuff. I like Eluveitie, mainly for the folk side of the band. And I like also Ensiferum, especially the latest albums that are not as harsh as the first ones.

So, in the end, there are some bands where I can tolerate the harsh vocals (and never for the vocal themselves, but for the rest of the sound). All things being equal and with the RARE exception here and there (I love Twilight of the Thunder God  ), I absolutely and completely dislike harsh vocals and won't go anywhere near them.

[Fritzinger]

I'm not the biggest growling/screaming guy, but I absolutely love it when it's used as one of many colors:
Leprous on the whole Congregation album
Haken - The Architect (also by Einar)
Opeth - Watershed, Ghost Reveries

In some cases, I listen to bands who only (or mostly) use harsh vocals, like Meshuggah or earlier Opeth.

[Zydar]

I'm not really a fan of harsh vocals, but I can still listen to some early Opeth where they appear. But that's about it. I much prefer clean vocals.

[twosuitsluke]

I remember hearing Linkin Park and Slipknot when I was like 17 and HATING it! I got to a point later on though, where I realised there was just so much good music out there with harsh vocals.

As I said before, Pantera and Children of Bodom were the bands where I really forced myself to persevere with the vocals. It was plain sailing after that. I know personally for me, my ear is drawn to the guitars and drums when listening to metal, so it may be somewhat easier for me to tolerate vocals, than it is for others.

I just couldn't imagine missing out on so much good stuff because I couldn't get past the vocals. I would say, for those who find them hard to tolerate, perseverance can pay off! I'm pretty sure almost everyone who listens to harsh vocals went through that at some point!

[gazinwales]

Love them to death, I just take them onboard as another instrument in the music.
Best metal growler is Tomi Joutsen from Amorphis, he is that good that you can actually understand what he is 'screaming' about.

[wolfking]

For those that hate growls, why exactly do you not like them?  What is it about them you find such a turn off? You like distorted guitars, so what is the difference between that and some vocals?

[MirrorMask]

For those that hate growls, why exactly do you not like them?  What is it about them you find such a turn off? You like distorted guitars, so what is the difference between that and some vocals?

I'm a wannabe singer. I always loved singing and that was always what I was focusing on on any song. Guitarists notice the great guitar work. Drummers focuse on that wicked and groovy pace of the rhytm. As someone interested in singing, vocals get all my attention.

Of course I do notice all the other instruments. I'm musically ignorant for all things guitar-related, but that doesn't hold me back from realizing Petrucci's greatness and admire his work, especially the more melodic ones like, for example, the solos before The Spirit Carries On live, man I could go on and on listening to him jamming away like that. But still, vocals are what make a song for me.

With harsh or growling vocals, I don't find the personal connection, the emotion and the delivery I find in clean singing. It takes away a personal connection with the singer. Yes, I know that the harshness IS an emotion. Yes, I know that they fit the nature of the song and I said above, there are selected examples of bands or songs where I don't mind at all harsh vocals. But more often than not, I cannot connect with the harsh vocals and therefore my biggest enjoyment of a song, the vocal delivery and all the nuances that come with it, comes less.

[wolfking]

Fair call mate.

[twosuitsluke]

Another thing of note, in regards to harsh vocals. I think they are a great way to get out anger/frustration/stress and all other similar emotions.

I consider myself to be a chill guy, I don't really get angry or shout or anything like that. I put that down to channeling that, and getting it all out by singing/screaming along to my favourite songs (especially alone in my car). I find that it is a release that I NEED.

Some get that out by exercising or something. There are a multitude of other ways people get there emotions all out. But I wonder if a lot of the people who dig harsh vocals are like me, and get it all out that way?

I've met so many people over the years who buy into that stereotype that metal heads are angry, depressed people. It surprises some people that I listen to such angry music. Like, "You're not angry or aggressive at all!". No Karen, I'm not, and this is because of the music I listen to.

[Dream Team]

For me they literally only fit 1 genre and that is full-on death metal. Out of place everywhere else including any -core diarrhea.

[Setlist Scotty]

As I said before, Pantera and Children of Bodom were the bands where I really forced myself to persevere with the vocals.

Given that there's so much other music out there that I have yet to explore, the *last* thing I want to do is force myself to listen to something that is repulsive to me. There's no need for me to waste my time or energy.

For those that hate growls, why exactly do you not like them?  What is it about them you find such a turn off? You like distorted guitars, so what is the difference between that and some vocals?

To a large degree, distorted guitars still have melody that is enjoyable. Cookie monster vocals do not - they are pure noise to my ears. I view music that lacks melody in the same way, which is why I cannot stand Meshuggah.

[hefdaddy42]

I generally don't like them, and I would never listen to a band because of them.  However, I also listen to multiple bands that use them, and I like them just fine in their music.

[King Postwhore]

As I said before, Pantera and Children of Bodom were the bands where I really forced myself to persevere with the vocals.

Given that there's so much other music out there that I have yet to explore, the *last* thing I want to do is force myself to listen to something that is repulsive to me. There's no need for me to waste my time or energy.

For those that hate growls, why exactly do you not like them?  What is it about them you find such a turn off? You like distorted guitars, so what is the difference between that and some vocals?

To a large degree, distorted guitars still have melody that is enjoyable. Cookie monster vocals do not - they are pure noise to my ears. I view music that lacks melody in the same way, which is why I cannot stand Meshuggah.

This is exactly how I feel. When it is used to express anger in a moment of a song I like it.  When it's used throughout a whole song it's white noise to me.

[Stadler]

I'm with several people here, like Paul, Scotty and Barry.  Not a fan.   I'm not exclusive to that; I like a fair amount of Devin, but I like him less the more there are harsh/growly vocals.  I don't really like when Mike does it.   I get it as a tool, I get it as an artistic expression, but it's not my thing.

I don't see the comparison between guitars and vocals; for the vast majority of distorted guitars I like there's an underlying total warmth that is satisfying.  To the extent the guitars are harsh too, trebly, I don't like them either.   There's something gutteral about the vocals that is off-putting to me.

[Lowdz]

For those that hate growls, why exactly do you not like them?  What is it about them you find such a turn off? You like distorted guitars, so what is the difference between that and some vocals?

I find them monotonous as there’s very little attempt at melody - it’s the metal version of rap. It alsojust sounds juvenile to me.

I can see a use for it in some circumstances, in a limited way - to represent the devil or evil or something, but extended use is a no no for me.

Every time I’ve heard growls I always wanted a vocal melody instead.

[pg1067]

By the way, possibly the very worst thing DT ever did was that version of Damage, Inc. on 5YIAL.  If I recall correctly, even JM started laughing when the guy started to "sing."

[Stadler]

By the way, possibly the very worst thing DT ever did was that version of Damage, Inc. on 5YIAL.  If I recall correctly, even JM started laughing when the guy started to "sing."

Barney!    When I was younger, my friend - I've written about him here before (he just found his dad) - taught at a private high school.  He took a group of kids to Montreal for a ski trip, and I went as chaparone.   Some of the kids - thinking they were being funny - brought a Napalm Death video (I don't remember if it was a boot or not; Live Corruption didn't come out until after I remember the trip being held) thinking they were going to bust our balls.   Little did they know we were both in bands, both liked metal (though not death metal) and thought it was funny.   By the end of the trip we were kind of busting their balls by making THEM play it after the novelty wore off. 

I won't say that's not "music", because it is but it's in my collection for completeness and for the event, not because it's a stellar version of the song.

[WilliamMunny]

Depends on the band, but for the most part, I can take 'em or leave 'em.

I will say this, there are a few examples where a well placed 'scream' (like Bruce's mega-shriek in 'Number of the Beast') can really elevate a song, but for a band to lean on growling for the majority of their catalog, I'm pretty 'meh'...it kinda all blends together.

[bluefox4000]

For those that hate growls, why exactly do you not like them?  What is it about them you find such a turn off? You like distorted guitars, so what is the difference between that and some vocals?

not a hater of them but to answer.  More often than not they detract from a song for me rather than add.

if i hear an opening to a song and i go wow i'm diggin' this.  Then i hear. GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I go......ok we're doing this.  i loose a bit of interest in the song.

again i can overlook if i love the band.  but also if you hand me an album of al harsh vocals.  it won't get played.  i can't do it.

[SwedishGoose]

Where do you all place Gojira?
For those who don't like growls or harsh vocals, do you include Gojira there?

To me I think the vocals are strangely melodic even though they kinda fits into growling.

[425]

By the way, possibly the very worst thing DT ever did was that version of Damage, Inc. on 5YIAL.  If I recall correctly, even JM started laughing when the guy started to "sing."

Just listened to this, and wow, this is godawful. It's a good demonstration of what I don't like about the use of growls for more than color. As others have said, it's monotonous, it's amelodic, there's nothing artistic or even pleasant about it. Even though this is exactly the kind of music that might call for prominent growls. Hetfield's sung performance is just leagues better in terms of having anything interesting or enjoyable about it—even though at that time he was not a particularly melodious singer. And after listening to the 5YIALT performance, I listened to DT playing this song with JLB singing. Even though the song is not well-tailored for JLB's voice, he also sounds leagues better than the guy from Napalm Death. There's melody, there's personality, there's something to it besides monotonous harshness.

What I think would be a more effective use of growls on this song, if one were to use them, would be to have everything sung except the "Damage Incorporated" at the end of the chorus. Then there would be some sense of surprise and contrast, and it would punctuate a particularly aggressive part of the song.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

It's funny because I really love good clean vocals and melody but ever since I discovered bands with harsh vocals I always thought the combination of clean melodies and growls blended so nice together if done right.

I listen to all kinds of genres with harsh vocals and some with only harsh vocals but I do have a soft spot when growls are utilized as a conveyor of emotions from the lyrics rather than the only singing style in the music if you know what I mean. Like in Day Twelve: Trauma.

In general though i've never had a problem with growls to begin with, I just found them to be a really cool enhancer of certain kinds of metal music.




 

[Lonk]

I think if done correctly, harsh vocals could enhance a song.

I'm in between. I prefer clean vocals, but don't mind harsh vocals.

[Evermind]

I voted for the first option because I'd like to see The Flower Kings, Billie Eilish, Marillion, Alanis Morrisette, IQ, Marketa Irglova, Anneke van Giersbergen solo and all the other bands to use harsh vocals. No guest singers too. Show me what you've got.

Seriously though, I think sometimes you could give or take them—in terms that the song could still work well without them—and sometimes they absolutely make the album. How can you do the themes The Reticent did in their last two albums so eloquently without harsh vocals? How can you do that Agalloch song that got me into growls (Our Fortress is Burning - II) without showing the complete anguish encompassed into the harsh vocals the band used there?

Hate harsh vocals all you want—I hated them until 2016 I think—but, in my opinion, they definitely have their use in the art of music.

[Dedalus]

By the way, possibly the very worst thing DT ever did was that version of Damage, Inc. on 5YIAL.  If I recall correctly, even JM started laughing when the guy started to "sing."

Someone wrote on YT: "Barney is my favorite Dream Theater singer" 

[Stadler]

I voted for the first option because I'd like to see The Flower Kings, Billie Eilish, Marillion, Alanis Morrisette, IQ, Marketa Irglova, Anneke van Giersbergen solo and all the other bands to use harsh vocals. No guest singers too. Show me what you've got.

Seriously though, I think sometimes you could give or take them—in terms that the song could still work well without them—and sometimes they absolutely make the album. How can you do the themes The Reticent did in their last two albums so eloquently without harsh vocals? How can you do that Agalloch song that got me into growls (Our Fortress is Burning - II) without showing the complete anguish encompassed into the harsh vocals the band used there?

Hate harsh vocals all you want—I hated them until 2016 I think—but, in my opinion, they definitely have their use in the art of music.

Not arguing with you, just sharing a thought.    I've heard the new Anneke album, and while it's not my favorite album of all time, it's very, very good, and one of the things about it is that it's unabashedly BEAUTIFUL.  There's an elegance, a grace to almost all the songs, and for me, one of the two best songs on the album - the closer, "Love You Like I Love You" - is just... beautiful.  There's no other word for it.   The arrangement, the lyrics, the melody, the singing, it's like a photograph, and it's meant, I believe, to express the beauty (and power) of love.   I don't see what hard vocals would do there other than to break the spell, to ruin the photorama. 

As a general proposition, in life, anger is the easiest emotion.  I have a bus-full of people in my life who only know how to express emotion through anger, whether it's embarrassment, fear, hurt, disappointment, or, well, anger.   I don't say that growls/harsh are "easy", but there are more singers that can do that in one form or another than can hold a pure, crystal, clean note, like, for example, Freddy Mercury does in "Somebody To Love".   

[pg1067]

By the way, possibly the very worst thing DT ever did was that version of Damage, Inc. on 5YIAL.  If I recall correctly, even JM started laughing when the guy started to "sing."

Barney!    When I was younger, my friend - I've written about him here before (he just found his dad) - taught at a private high school.  He took a group of kids to Montreal for a ski trip, and I went as chaparone.   Some of the kids - thinking they were being funny - brought a Napalm Death video (I don't remember if it was a boot or not; Live Corruption didn't come out until after I remember the trip being held) thinking they were going to bust our balls.   Little did they know we were both in bands, both liked metal (though not death metal) and thought it was funny.   By the end of the trip we were kind of busting their balls by making THEM play it after the novelty wore off. 

I won't say that's not "music", because it is but it's in my collection for completeness and for the event, not because it's a stellar version of the song.

Are you calling me a Barney or is that the guy's name?     Let's just say that it's a good think that that's only one song on 5YIAL.  Musically, they ripped it up, but I just can't with the "vocals."

For those that hate growls, why exactly do you not like them?  What is it about them you find such a turn off? You like distorted guitars, so what is the difference between that and some vocals?

Obviously, it's a subjective thing, and, to me, they sound like shit.  What's the difference between distorted guitars and some dude (or chick) grunting like an animal?  I don't know that I could articulate it, but the difference is, to me, manifest.  It's sort of like saying, "why do you like Geoff Tate's vocals but think Axl Rose sounds like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs?

Where do you all place Gojira?

Somewhere between Genesis and Grim Reaper.

By the way, possibly the very worst thing DT ever did was that version of Damage, Inc. on 5YIAL.  If I recall correctly, even JM started laughing when the guy started to "sing."

Someone wrote on YT: "Barney is my favorite Dream Theater singer" 

If I recall correctly, the comments on that video are gold.

[wolfking]

Thanks for the responses to my question guys.  I was thinking a lack of melody might have been a big factor.

[Stadler]

Where do you all place Gojira?

Somewhere between Genesis and Grim Reaper.

Beautiful.  Absolutely beautiful.   

[wolfking]

By the way, possibly the very worst thing DT ever did was that version of Damage, Inc. on 5YIAL.  If I recall correctly, even JM started laughing when the guy started to "sing."

Petrucci fucking destroys on this.  His rhythm is incredible.