Poll

How do you feel about the use of harsh or growling "cookie monster" vocals in music?

I love them and wish all bands would use them
11 (10.2%)
I think they're OK
26 (24.1%)
I can take them or leave them
14 (13%)
I'm not a fan but I still listen to some bands who use them
40 (37%)
Hate them and won't listen to bands who use them
17 (15.7%)

Total Members Voted: 108

Author Topic: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?  (Read 7242 times)

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Offline kirksnosehair

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Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« on: February 17, 2021, 01:38:28 PM »
I'm just curious where the forum comes down on this?  I'm guessing I am in the minority here, because I strongly dislike harsh vocals.  To me, they ruin otherwise great music in many cases.   I can take them in very, very small doses once in a while but generally speaking the minute I hear growls I lose interest.  And I've lost count of the number of bands I've discovered on Amazon.com music only to get a minute or two into their album and hear the growling start.  Instant turnoff and delete from phone. 


Now I could be way off base here, but I suspect there is an age correlation to this.  It won't be a hard set rule but I think on average the people who like growling will trend younger and the people who dislike them will trend older.   

Offline NoseofNicko

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2021, 01:41:10 PM »
Love them but I don’t wish all bands would use them, I prefer clean vocals.

Offline Zantera

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2021, 01:43:55 PM »
I'm between the "love it" and "i think they're OK" options. I like them depending on band but I find it most of the bands that do it that I like, use a nice mix of harsh vocals with some clean sections. Like classic Opeth or Between the Buried and Me for example. There's bands that only do harsh vocals where it does get a bit grating in the long run.

Offline 425

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2021, 01:46:40 PM »
I'm probably somewhere in between "I can take them or leave them" and "I'm not a fan but I still listen to some bands who use them," with a splash of something else. I voted "not a fan" because that's probably a bit closer to my opinion, but it doesn't quite fit.

I'm not against them entirely, but I think they should be used judiciously. If an album is primarily harsh vocals, I'm unlikely to enjoy it; I think that's too much.

On the other hand, at their best, I think they can enhance certain moments, but usually do so when they are unexpected. I think the way they're used in The Human Equation and 01001101 from Ayreon, for example, is pretty strong. And the couple of small sections of growling on Kamelot's The Black Halo are perfectly placed.

In the middle, when bands use growls as something like 20-50% of the vocals, I can get accustomed to that and enjoy their albums, but I wish they would be a little more selective with when they use those elements.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2021, 01:47:08 PM »
99% of the time they are a turnoff for me.  Off the top of my head the only two artists I listen to with any regularity who use them are Opeth and Devin Townsend.  Devin is one of those artists like Steven Wilson where I like about 1 out of 10 songs he puts out, but that one song I REALLY love, so I tolerate the growling.  I don't like it. I tolerate it.  Same with Opeth.  My favorite Opeth album is Watershed, mainly because it's still pretty heavy but the vocals are way cleaner than almost everything that came before it.

Offline Revenge319

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2021, 01:47:50 PM »
I'm between the "love it" and "i think they're OK" options. I like them depending on band but I find it most of the bands that do it that I like, use a nice mix of harsh vocals with some clean sections. Like classic Opeth or Between the Buried and Me for example. There's bands that only do harsh vocals where it does get a bit grating in the long run.

Yeah, same here. I really like BTBAM's harsh vocals, and there's some other artists I enjoy because of their harsh vocals, but I wouldn't say I love them and want all bands to make use of them.

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2021, 01:48:06 PM »
Love, love, love them.
Everyone else, except Wolfking is wrong.

Offline Grappler

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2021, 01:48:20 PM »
I love them.  Got into death metal 20+ years ago and haven't looked back since. 

Offline romdrums

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2021, 01:49:04 PM »
Love them but I don’t wish all bands would use them, I prefer clean vocals.

Agree.  I don't need growls in DT, but it's a necessity for Meshuggah. 
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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2021, 01:49:10 PM »
I voted for the top option, but saying that, I would never want ALL bands to use them.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2021, 01:50:39 PM »
I'm probably somewhere in between "I can take them or leave them" and "I'm not a fan but I still listen to some bands who use them," with a splash of something else. I voted "not a fan" because that's probably a bit closer to my opinion, but it doesn't quite fit.

I'm not against them entirely, but I think they should be used judiciously. If an album is primarily harsh vocals, I'm unlikely to enjoy it; I think that's too much.

On the other hand, at their best, I think they can enhance certain moments, but usually do so when they are unexpected. I think the way they're used in The Human Equation and 01001101 from Ayreon, for example, is pretty strong. And the couple of small sections of growling on Kamelot's The Black Halo are perfectly placed.

In the middle, when bands use growls as something like 20-50% of the vocals, I can get accustomed to that and enjoy their albums, but I wish they would be a little more selective with when they use those elements.


This summarizes my feelings on it quite nicely.  Those albums you mentioned like The Black Halo and The Human Equation are, to me, perfect examples of how harsh vocals can add a nice dynamic to an album.  When it's wall-to-wall growls though, I can't take it for more than one or two songs at the most.  Especially when I cannot understand a word that's being said.  That was one thing about Opeth that made the growling kind of tolerable to me was the fact that somehow he does it in a way that I can clearly understand everything.  That said, my favorite Opeth songs are almost universally devoid of growling or have very little growling in them. 

Offline cramx3

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2021, 01:51:41 PM »
I can take them or leave them.

I don't really listen to any bands that are %100 harsh vocals.  It just becomes too much for me.  However, I really like a lot of bands that use a mix.  Sometimes that works REALLY well for me.  JLB last two solo albums are a good example, as well as Epica.  The "beauty and the beast" contrast can work really well.

Offline Kram

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2021, 01:59:20 PM »
I'm somewhere in between as well.  Like you mentioned, Opeth and Devin Townsend, yes - other bands, not so much.  I think I enjoy them when they're used as an "effect" almost, for the betterment of the song.  And typically in conjunction with clean vocals.  I think Mikael and Opeth are the kings of this.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2021, 02:01:29 PM »
I'm somewhere in between as well.  Like you mentioned, Opeth and Devin Townsend, yes - other bands, not so much.  I think I enjoy them when they're used as an "effect" almost, for the betterment of the song.  And typically in conjunction with clean vocals.  I think Mikael and Opeth are the kings of this.

Devin Townsend is a great example, he's a really good screamer and clean singer.  If you listen to Deadhead for example, his screams on that song are so powerful, the song would not be as good without them and it balances with his clean vocals.  It makes an impact and has a lot of emotion in it.  To me, this is the best use case.  That's not to say anything bad for those who love bands that always scream, this is just what I personally enjoy the most with harsh vocals.

Offline bluefox4000

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2021, 02:06:45 PM »
I prefer them mixed together with clean or used as little as possible.  i cannot take full albums worth.  no disrespect  cause it takes talent.  but more often then not.....it just winds up sounding silly to me.

it took me forever to crack a band like say opeth.  because while the music was right up my street the vocals were my biggest road block.  luckily there was always clean mixed in so i learned to accept the growls.

but whole albums worth i do get annoyed.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 02:15:09 PM by bluefox4000 »

Offline Lowdz

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2021, 02:10:13 PM »
Not a fan at all. It ruins a lot of great music.

I can cope with a rasp like Chuck on Death’s later albums.

Offline TAC

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2021, 02:21:18 PM »
I really used to dismiss harsh vocals out of hand. I used the onion analogy. As in you could take the finest meal, but once you covered it with onions, it's fucking ruined.

I felt the same way about harsh vocals. But then I think I reached a point where I just got bored with music. Seemed like there was nothing coming out that was original. But it seemed that music that was interesting had harsh vocals on top of it.


99% of the time they are a turnoff for me.  Off the top of my head the only two artists I listen to with any regularity who use them are Opeth and Devin Townsend.  Devin is one of those artists like Steven Wilson where I like about 1 out of 10 songs he puts out, but that one song I REALLY love, so I tolerate the growling.  I don't like it. I tolerate it.  Same with Opeth.  My favorite Opeth album is Watershed, mainly because it's still pretty heavy but the vocals are way cleaner than almost everything that came before it.


So as you say...I grew to tolerate the vocals. Just as I don't like every clean singer, I sure as hell don't care for every harsh vocalist. Probably 90% of the harsh vocal albums I sample, I can't do. But I can tolerate them if I find the music interesting enough and the vocals aren't so horrid. I definitely prefer a black metal vocal than a death metal vocal.

One band that I discovered a couple of years ago was Tribulation. They had a classic Fields Of The Nephilim/Thin Lizzy vibe with a heavy Lemmy style vocal. But it works!



I voted I can take them or leave them.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline ProfessorPeart

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2021, 02:24:33 PM »
I went with the take it or leave option.

I am very particular with harsh vocals. I can't really understand why it is okay with one artist and not another. Opeth was really my first band with true harsh vocals and that took several painful listens for it to click with me. The music was so good I just kept trying. I still think that Akerfeldt in his prime is the pinnacle.

I have actually started getting into a few more bands lately with them but I still don't have many in my collection. Jinjer is another. Tatiana is the pinnacle on the female side of things. I'm a little embarrassed to admit it, but I actually really like Butcher Babies as well. I have no issue with Carla or Heidi's vocals.

Then there are bands like After Forever and Epica. I always found the male vocals intrusive. I blame Mark Jansen for that in both bands. I still like both, but wish they would have foregone the harsh vocals.

I tend to leave them way more than I take them. Just has to click and many times it just does not.
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Offline ariich

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2021, 02:27:31 PM »
There isn't an option for me.

I love them, but I don't wish all bands would use them because I love clean vocals too and obviously I don't want all bands to do the same thing.

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2021, 02:29:20 PM »
I don't mind growls at all. They're just another tone in our vast amounts of tones, the human voice is capable of doing. In the right moments they're utilized great and enhance that sound.

There's also the difference of Growls, Shrieks, and Squeals. The lower Grunts, The pig sounding squeals, and the high shrieking harpie sounds.

I can take em or leave em. But I know, if not utilized right, can sound off.

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Offline pg1067

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2021, 02:30:58 PM »
I selected the bottom option, but I'm really somewhere between the last two options.  I hate them, but I wouldn't go so far to say "I won't listen to bands who use them."  DT used them a couple times.  Those songs aren't my favorites, but I'm still a fan because those were isolated incidents.  Probably most accurate to say that I won't listen to bands who routinely use them.
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Offline Buddyhunter1

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2021, 02:31:41 PM »
There isn't an option for me.

It completely depends on the context. Some songs wouldn't work at all with harsh vocals. Some songs wouldn't work at all with clean vocals. Some are in the middle where both work well.

It's all about knowing what it is you want to convey through the vocals and picking the right approach for the job.
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Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2021, 02:35:42 PM »
I'm also between "Love them" and "they're ok". I love Opeth's harsh vocals, but the contrast with the clean are when they really shine.

A few people have mentioned BTBAM. I personally find their harsh vocals really flat and they do absolutely nothing for me. The same with Meshuggah, those style of harsh vocals do nothing for me and it's the vocals for both those bands that stop them from being bands I really love, as opposed to bands I like.

My gateway into harsh vocals were Pantera's later albums and Children of Bodom!

My examples of bands with great harsh vocals:

Opeth
Children of Bodom
Pantera
Gojira
Devin Townsend
Mastodon
The Ocean
Ihsahn
Death
Lamb of God
Chthonic

Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2021, 02:38:51 PM »
I generally don't like growling vocals but a lot of the metal music I love most employs them, so I've learnt to hear past the 'unpleasantness' of it and try to experience it as another instrument (since I can almost never understand what the hell they're 'singing' anyway, I might as well approach it as pure sound). That said, there are one or two cases where the growl is really thrilling to me, most notably Mikael Akerfeldt at about the 10 minute mark in Baying of the Hounds.

Offline SwedishGoose

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2021, 02:41:31 PM »
I used to be anti growls back in the day but Opeth changed me and now I can appreciate them.
There are times when I think they work really well and times when not.

But only a very small portion of what I listen to has growls ot harsh vocals.

Offline Crow

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2021, 02:42:27 PM »
my answer is like somewhere between the first two tbh
i gotta be honest i barely notice harsh vocals anymore i'm numb to any shock value but they can add texture and intensity when placed right
clean vocals are generally preferable but a balance of both can outshine either by themselves

Offline T-ski

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2021, 03:07:30 PM »
Nothing worse than hearing a great musical intro only to then hear someone screaming unintelligible lyrics as if they’re going to kill me.

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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2021, 03:26:22 PM »
Hate them with a passion. Complete turn off for me. The only ones I've found tolerable thus far are *some* of Devin Townsend's, and even then I only know a few of his songs. But I gotta say they work in the song Deadhead - especially the live version I've seen on YT a number of times.
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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2021, 03:31:12 PM »
Just like anything else, I like them plenty if done well.
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« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2021, 03:35:34 PM »
I think they're OK.
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Offline Dedalus

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2021, 03:38:01 PM »
I am very particular with harsh vocals. I can't really understand why it is okay with one artist and not another.

I have nothing against a priori. On the contrary, I think I like vocals like that, but that doesn't mean I like any vocalist who uses these techniques. I love Opeth and I don't listen to BTBAM exclusively because I don't like the vocals.

In certain genres, it is mandatory. I don't listen to Death Metal a lot, but sometimes I do. I don't know how people listen to Death Metal, but I listen when hatred took over my existence (great therapy btw  :lol) and in those cases this type of vocal is necessary.

Offline Volante99

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2021, 04:33:26 PM »
To me, vocals are like any other instrument; sometimes a little distortion can compliment the whole package. Some elements in metal should be “harsh” sounding. It’s part of the overall aesthetic. That said, bands that can blend both clean and harsh especially when it makes sense lyrically, ie bands like Opeth, Agalloch, Insomnium, etc hit the sweet spot for me.

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2021, 04:38:40 PM »
also harsh vocals tier list:
1. mikael akerfeldt
2. screamo shrieks
3. standard black metal shrieks
4. post-metal growls
5. normal metalcore voice
6. la dispute-style speak-screaming
7. death metal cookie monster voice
8. tough guy metalcore voice
...
100. agalloch rasps

lemme know if i missed any notable ones
devin townsend doesn't even do harsh vocals idk why he always gets brought up he just has edge in his voice y'all are so used to willowy smooth prog and power vocals with almost no edge at all lol

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2021, 05:33:05 PM »
If the music is good as well and they fit well, then I thoroughly enjoy them. But I don't think every band should have them

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Re: Harsh or Growling Vocals - Yes or No?
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2021, 05:42:11 PM »
I do find myself gravitating towards screams/shrieks more than growls these days.
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