The Triumph Thread

[hunnus2000]

The only music I've heard of Rik's outside of Triumph is his last album under the "Rik Emmett and Resolution 9" and it's...a pretty decent AOR collection of tunes, but it didn't make me want to go out and find more.


What's the deal on this Ipso Facto thing you guys are talking about?

Not sure what you mean but I will give it a go. If memory serves me correctly, Rik signed a 2 album deal with a record label after he left Triumph. Ipso Facto was the second album of this deal satisfying the contract. After this album, Rik was free to create any type of album he wanted but his deal with the label directed him to write a certain type of genre. In fact, I think the Japanese release had an extra heavier song to satisfy the Japanese market. I think the song was "Do Me Good" not included on the American release.
Ipso Facto is awesome and even has a song called "Out of the Blue" - sound familiar?

If you're a fan of guitar then I implore you to check out his solo work. It's far better than anything he did with Triumph and I love Triumph! Fond memories!

As far as Metalworks - a little history. Back around Thunder Seven, the band announced that the band Triumph would be credited with the writing of the songs. "Hold On" would still be credited to Rik as well as anything before but anything from Thunder Seven on they all shared writing credits even on "A MidSummer's Day Dream".
At the same time, they were building a studio - Metalworks. Yes, Rik was 1/3 owner of the studio but when he left he had to give it up along with a bunch of other stuff (that's the ugly part). Who knows, Gil may own Metalworks outright or they may have sold it to a bigger corporation but back in the day, it was a Triumph venture.

[Podaar]

I blew out the rear passenger side speaker in my 1977 Chevy Monza from listening to Rock and Roll Machine (the song) too loud.

I'm a fan!

Edit: Oh, also, being raised on classical music, I always dug their rendition of Holst's Mars in the instrumental The City.

[pg1067]

No idea what Levine has been up to over the last 30 years (other than this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDP9KEBhWpI ).

By the way, in case anyone overlooked this, it's a clip of Mike Levine as a contestant on Wheel of Fortune sometime in the mid-90s.  It's interesting to watch.

I blew out the rear passenger side speaker in my 1977 Chevy Monza from listening to Rock and Roll Machine (the song) too loud.

I'm a fan!

Edit: Oh, also, being raised on classical music, I always dug their rendition of Holst's Mars in the instrumental The City.

What album is that on?

[TAC]

Holst's second album..

[pg1067]

Bruh...  :-P

[PetFish]

I'll have to look up some of the videos because I don't remember that, but it sounds about right -- especially for early 80s videos.  That in-studio thing was cool.  Also a little odd that they spent camera time tuning, rather than doing that beforehand.  Was that Alan Hunter with them?

If memory serves me correctly, the host is Steve Anthony (your blond VJ pal) on Much Music.  I also remember Erica Ehm (yummy), Christopher Ward, Michael Williams, and John "JD" Roberts (who's an anchor on CNN now, but he used to be a mulleted DJ).

For sure it's interesting that they spent time tuning but that was part of the greatness of 80s music television.  They had time and took the time with musicians and it really felt like "music television"... but now not so much.

[Podaar]

I blew out the rear passenger side speaker in my 1977 Chevy Monza from listening to Rock and Roll Machine (the song) too loud.

I'm a fan!

Edit: Oh, also, being raised on classical music, I always dug their rendition of Holst's Mars in the instrumental The City.

What album is that on?
[/quote]

Rock and Roll Machine
1.   "Takes Time"   
2.   "Bringing It On Home"   
3.   "Little Texas Shaker"   
4.   "New York City Streets, Pt. 1"   
5.   "New York City Streets, Pt. 2"   
6.   "The City: War March / El Duende Agonizante / Minstrel's Lament"   Emmett
7.   "Rocky Mountain Way"
8.   "Rock & Roll Machine"   

[T-ski]

I blew out the rear passenger side speaker in my 1977 Chevy Monza from listening to Rock and Roll Machine (the song) too loud.

I'm a fan!

Edit: Oh, also, being raised on classical music, I always dug their rendition of Holst's Mars in the instrumental The City.

Bitchin’ ride

[crazy climber dude]

It's funny that if you watch any of their "staged" music videos (not live ones) Rik is the master of not playing his guitar.  Even though it's fake, he's doing the whole vocal ad-libs the entire time, but he's not even "playing" his guitar unless it's a solo or something.

I'd say 50% of the time his guitar is just hanging there and he's waving his hands around.

Here's a cool video of Rik and Steve Morse doing Midsummer's Daydream back in the day when music TV was about the music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh1JcI3lDxE

That is pure gold. Two of my favorite musicians together.

[hunnus2000]

It's funny that if you watch any of their "staged" music videos (not live ones) Rik is the master of not playing his guitar.  Even though it's fake, he's doing the whole vocal ad-libs the entire time, but he's not even "playing" his guitar unless it's a solo or something.

I'd say 50% of the time his guitar is just hanging there and he's waving his hands around.

Here's a cool video of Rik and Steve Morse doing Midsummer's Daydream back in the day when music TV was about the music:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh1JcI3lDxE

That is pure gold. Two of my favorite musicians together.

Steve Morse was also a guest musician on the Surveillance album. Rik and Steve traded solos on the song Headed for Nowhere. Quite tasty stuff! 

[pg1067]

I blew out the rear passenger side speaker in my 1977 Chevy Monza from listening to Rock and Roll Machine (the song) too loud.

I'm a fan!

Edit: Oh, also, being raised on classical music, I always dug their rendition of Holst's Mars in the instrumental The City.

What album is that on?

Rock and Roll Machine
1.   "Takes Time"   
2.   "Bringing It On Home"   
3.   "Little Texas Shaker"   
4.   "New York City Streets, Pt. 1"   
5.   "New York City Streets, Pt. 2"   
6.   "The City: War March / El Duende Agonizante / Minstrel's Lament"   Emmett
7.   "Rocky Mountain Way"
8.   "Rock & Roll Machine"

Gotcha.  That's the original track list.  I have the re-release, which is sort of a hybrid of the self-titled and the original R&R Machine:

"The album was originally released only in Canada, but when the band signed an international deal with RCA Records in 1977, the international edition of the album was re-sequenced to include some of the tracks from their self-titled Triumph (1976) album.  The album was released for a second time in Canada, with a different cover than the original one or the international one, using the re-sequenced tracking from the international version. The RCA and MCA re-sequenced track listing is as follows:

Side one
"Takes Time" (Emmett, Moore, Levine) – 3:48
"Bringing It On Home" (Emmett, Levine) – 4:35
"Rocky Mountain Way" (Walsh, Vitale, Passarelli, Grace) – 4:04
"Street Fighter" (Emmett, Moore) – 3:30
"Street Fighter (Reprise)" (Emmett, Moore) – 3:02

Side two
"24 Hours a Day" (Emmett) – 4:17
"Blinding Light Show/Moonchild" (Emmett, Brockway, Young) – 8:43
"Rock and Roll Machine" (Moore) – 6:53"

I'll have to check that out because The Planets is great stuff.

[jingle.boy]

Now that I'm in the Ts on my listening, I'm finally getting around to going thru this thread.  I like to call Triumph the 'other' Holy Triumvirate.  And in the early 80s, I'd say Triumph was as big as (perhaps bigger than) Rush - I mean, just look at their appearance on Live at the US Festival - they got billing ahead of both Ozzy and Priest.

Re: the OP
- Hold on is God-Tier, but yeah... the rest of the album is fairly ordinary.
- Progressions of Power is a great album.  Didn't produce the 'hits' other albums did, but it's got some gems in there (I Can Survive, Nature's Child, Hard Road)
- I always thought Magic Power was their flagship song, not Fight the Good Fight.  Though it's kinda tantamount to the argument of whether Tom Sawyer or The Spirit of Radio being Rush's flagship.  It really is 1a and 1b - and debatable which is A and which is B.  For me, Magic Power is a top-5 song of all time; FtGF has a top-5 solo of all time.
- Stages ... love it.  I do remember some production problems with the original CD release (there was this terrible 'clicking' throughout Hold On), but the Remaster is just fine.
- Gotta say, I've never heard "wimpy" used to describe Sport of Kings.  The two opener's absolutely slay, the the rest of the album holds up just fine.
- I've always loved the instrumental/interlude tracks, and always wanted (most of) them to be more lengthy
- As I mentioned in my first response, Edge of Excess is actually a pretty good album.  It's been a long time since I listened, but iirc, Moore handles most (all?) of the lead vocals, and it worked just fine.  It doesn't have any big highs that pretty much every Emmett-era album had, but it is very consistent.

Other random thoughts
- Gil Moore was a beast on the skins, and has some of the best fills/rolls in rock (Fight the Good Fight just rolled as I typed this  )
- Sadly, I never saw them on tour, but did see Rik Emmett a couple years back when he released that Res9 album (which is a really nice album)
- All of their Remasters are done really well, and enhance the awesomeness of the original recordings
- My real intro to them beyond the regular hits, was thru the Classics release (man, there were a lot of nice releases under that banner - Queen and Styx also come to mind)
- A Night of Triumph DVD (filmed in '87 I think, in Halifax), is a gem - especially the crowd shots
- Sweden Rock Festival '08 is a really great reunion show
- Live at the US Festival is the grand-daddy of them though.  Goddamn what a performance.
- I listened to Absolutely (Emmett's solo release in '90) a ton.  Totally different from Triumph, but absolutely magnificent singing and solo'g on that album.
- I very much dislike their version of Rocky Mountain Way - primarily because Canadian radio NEVER plays the original; they always default to the Triumph version so it ticks the box on their Canadian content requirements.  Seriously, I'd NEVER heard the Walsh version played on Canadian radio.  And I prefer Walsh's vox over Moore's.

Top 10 (yeah, a couple of cheese-choices in here, I know)
1a. Magic Power
1b. Fight the Good Fight
3. Ordinary Man
4. Hold On
5. Headed For Nowhere
6. Blinding Light Show / Moonchild
7. Follow Your Heart
8. Midsummer's Daydream
9. Time Goes By
10. Somebody's Out There

[KevShmev]

Midsummer's Daydream is awesome, but I have a hard time ranking those kinds of instrumentalist solo tunes alongside the full band tunes.

My impression was always that Lay it on the Line was as much of a staple as Magic Power or Fight the Good Fight, and I think you could make a strong argument for any of the three being their flagship song.  What song gets played the most of course varies on what station where you live plays; I just remember Lay It on the Line getting played as much as the others back in the day when I listened to our local classic rock station.

[hunnus2000]

I agree that Edge of Excess is a decent album and Troublemaker is 

Also, Triumph with Phil X (I think it was him) did a pretty decent version of Love Hurts that made it on to one of their greatest hits album (you can find it on YouTube). But there was another song that I am having trouble finding (and I don't remember the name) that was the exact same riff of a song called "Addicted" on Rik Emmett's Liberty Manifesto. The song that Triumph did was of slower tempo but it was the exact same rift but I can't find it to save my life.

I too LOVE the US Festival footage and encourage everyone to buy it. It's just Triumph doing a concert in the middle of the afternoon with no pyrotechnics and it is really impressive the show they put on. They were a last minute addition because I think Sammy Hagar had to pull out.

[jingle.boy]

They were a last minute addition because I think Sammy Hagar had to pull out.

I'd never heard that.  Not disputing it, jut something I'd never known/heard.

[King Postwhore]

This is the story.

[lonestar]

Not sure if anyone ever watched the Styx Behind the Music episode, but Triumph pretty much put the final nail in their coffin. Seems when they were touring Kilroy, and trying to do some proggy artistic performance, one festival appearance had them after Triumph. Triumph of course did what they did best, rock the fucking balls of the crowd. Shaw talks about being terrified to follow that with a staged performance with dialogue, and his worse fears were realized as the crowd fucking hated it. He said Styx of old died on that night.



Because of fucking TRIUMPH!!!

[jingle.boy]

This is the story.

That's saying they had to switch slots with Sammy at the Orlando show.

[King Postwhore]

Right so they could fly out to the show. Not that Sammy canceled out do they got the slot. They already had the slot.

[KevShmev]

Not sure if anyone ever watched the Styx Behind the Music episode, but Triumph pretty much put the final nail in their coffin. Seems when they were touring Kilroy, and trying to do some proggy artistic performance, one festival appearance had them after Triumph. Triumph of course did what they did best, rock the fucking balls of the crowd. Shaw talks about being terrified to follow that with a staged performance with dialogue, and his worse fears were realized as the crowd fucking hated it. He said Styx of old died on that night.



Because of fucking TRIUMPH!!!

I would call that a self-inflicted wound.  For Styx to attempt that Kilroy spectacle at a festival was a grave mistake.  Best to just play a straight set of your hits and some new songs without getting too fancy with the arty stuff, given that the crowd was a mixture of fans rather than just Styx fans.

[King Postwhore]

And Kev, that's why Dennis DeYoung has to be shipped to Siberia.

[KevShmev]

Meanwhile, I just got an email the other day saying that Styx is playing at some carnival (see: same level as state fairs) this summer here in STL. 

[King Postwhore]

 

Outside is the new norm unfortunately right now.

[KevShmev]

Yeah, cause Styx with clown boy Lawrence Gowan on the keys was playing stadiums before the pandemic.

[TAC]

Meanwhile, I just got an email the other day saying that Styx is playing at some carnival

[King Postwhore]

Yeah, cause Styx with clown boy Lawrence Gowan on the keys was playing stadiums before the pandemic.

You mocking a Canadian treasure?

[pg1067]

- I always thought Magic Power was their flagship song, not Fight the Good Fight.  Though it's kinda tantamount to the argument of whether Tom Sawyer or The Spirit of Radio being Rush's flagship.  It really is 1a and 1b - and debatable which is A and which is B.  For me, Magic Power is a top-5 song of all time; FtGF has a top-5 solo of all time.

Definitely agree about those two songs being 1a and 1b.  One of the only "mix tapes" I ever made was a tape of some of my favorite guitar solos, and FTGF was definitely on there.  That song illustrates the next point.

- Stages ... love it.  I do remember some production problems with the original CD release (there was this terrible 'clicking' throughout Hold On), but the Remaster is just fine.

I only have what I assume is the original CD release, and I'll try to give it a listen this week.  The biggest issue for me is that songs like FTGF have a prominent second guitar that fills out the sound during the guitar solo.  Before they added a touring guitarist, this was obviously absent from live performances, and that sort of thing has always been obvious to me.  By comparison, the lack of a prominent second guitar that disappeared from live performances was one of the things I always appreciated about Rush after the first few albums.

- Gil Moore was a beast on the skins, and has some of the best fills/rolls in rock (Fight the Good Fight just rolled as I typed this  )

As a non-drummer, I always felt like Tama made the best drums because of how GREAT Moore's and Peart's Tama kits sounded.  I think John Panozzo was also a Tama guy, and I always thought his sound was excellent.  And yeah, Gil's playing, while not on the level of Neil's, was really good.

- A Night of Triumph DVD (filmed in '87 I think, in Halifax), is a gem - especially the crowd shots

Another one I still have on VHS and haven't watched in ages (same for the US Festival show).

Top 10 (yeah, a couple of cheese-choices in here, I know)
1a. Magic Power
1b. Fight the Good Fight
3. Ordinary Man
4. Hold On
5. Headed For Nowhere
6. Blinding Light Show / Moonchild
7. Follow Your Heart
8. Midsummer's Daydream
9. Time Goes By
10. Somebody's Out There

I can't really argue against any of those songs, but the absence of Never Surrender material is a head scratcher.

[jingle.boy]

Never Surrender is a good album, very consistent... but none of the songs I'd put in the Top 10 (as you can see).

TASTES^TM!!!

[lonestar]

Not sure if anyone ever watched the Styx Behind the Music episode, but Triumph pretty much put the final nail in their coffin. Seems when they were touring Kilroy, and trying to do some proggy artistic performance, one festival appearance had them after Triumph. Triumph of course did what they did best, rock the fucking balls of the crowd. Shaw talks about being terrified to follow that with a staged performance with dialogue, and his worse fears were realized as the crowd fucking hated it. He said Styx of old died on that night.



Because of fucking TRIUMPH!!!

I would call that a self-inflicted wound.  For Styx to attempt that Kilroy spectacle at a festival was a grave mistake.  Best to just play a straight set of your hits and some new songs without getting too fancy with the arty stuff, given that the crowd was a mixture of fans rather than just Styx fans.

Oh totally... To hear Tommy Shaw talk about his fear going on stage was frikkin hilarious. The whole episode is definitely worth a watch, especially for the 'parking lot full of whale vomit' review of Kilroy 

[KevShmev]

Oh totally... To hear Tommy Shaw talk about his fear going on stage was frikkin hilarious. The whole episode is definitely worth a watch, especially for the 'parking lot full of whale vomit' review of Kilroy 

DDY can take the blame for the tour, that is for sure, but Tommy and JY slagging the album itself is hilarious considering they combined wrote more songs for it than DeYoung did. 

[TAC]

Oh totally... To hear Tommy Shaw talk about his fear going on stage was frikkin hilarious. The whole episode is definitely worth a watch, especially for the 'parking lot full of whale vomit' review of Kilroy 

DDY can take the blame for the tour, that is for sure, but Tommy and JY slagging the album itself is hilarious considering they combined wrote more songs for it than DeYoung did. 

Not to mention that Tommy Shaw and James Young both owe their careers to DDY.

[King Postwhore]

They do?  Seems to me the band made leaps and bounds when Tommy joins.  Their combo in songwriting made them skyrocket. 

[pg1067]

They do?  Seems to me the band made leaps and bounds when Tommy joins.  Their combo in songwriting made them skyrocket.

Yeah...Styx was definitely a three-headed monster (or at least a two-headed one).

[TAC]

They do?  Seems to me the band made leaps and bounds when Tommy joins.  Their combo in songwriting made them skyrocket.

I'm not here to slag Tommy Shaw, but DDY voiced their biggest hits. I just don't think they hit legendary status without DDY. Maybe Shaw was a big cog but it's like the Brady Belichick question.

Who was more vital and more responsible to Styx's success, and I don't feel like it's any contest. It's DDY.

[KevShmev]

DDY definitely gets the most credit for their success, but Tommy was integral as well.  He wrote some of their biggest classic rock mainstays (maybe not big chart toppers at the time, but ones that have stood the test of time).  Young would have ended up doing oil changes every day if not for Dennis and Tommy. 

And while this is just my opinion, since the Styx breakup in '83, Tommy has lapped DDY so many times, it is not even funny.  I can count on one hand the number of songs I like that Dennis has written since 1984. Tommy has tons between his solo records, Damn Yankees, Shaw Blades and Styx.