Steven Wilson solo career thread - v. The Harmony Codex in 2023!

[Ben_Jamin]

I'd have to watch the interview again, but I don't think he called Eddie's playing vile; he called the trend of shredders that he inspired vile.  Semantics, but it's like if someone called all of the bands that Nirvana influenced horse crap; you aren't call Nirvana themselves horse crap.  And Wilson did say, I believe, that he knows that Eddie was much more than that (a shredder).  Think of hair metal too that was so big in the 80's. VH is rarely themselves called hair metal, but I think it's a given that most of the bands were influenced by VH. 

Wilson still would have been better served keeping his answer short and sweet, but he rarely gives short answers.  Maybe he will start now. 

Exactly. Eddie in this case is the Chocolate cake, and Shredders in general are Cakes in general. While Steven prefers Ice Cream and at a party would deny wanting cake. In this case, he finds cake vile, but still recognizes that the chocolate cake is delicious.

And I don't expect Wilson to change who he is because people can't accept him for being who he is.

It just find it a bit annoying, when people start questioning a person's character, when that person is discussing his opinion that was ASKED from him.

It's not like he is preaching that music is vile and no one is allowed to listen to it, and demanding it to be stricken from the airwaves. Like how some people here can view Rap/Hip-Hop or Country as vile. Even, worship music.

It's all word choices and here Steven Wilson just chose a word that he felt best describes his view of Guitar Shredders.

[kirksnosehair]

But that's NOT what's happening here.  He said things that were demonstrably fucking rude and tactless.  if you wanna be a Steven Wilson apologist that's your call, but it's kind of silly

[Ben_Jamin]

But that's NOT what's happening here.  He said things that were demonstrably fucking rude and tactless.  if you wanna be a Steven Wilson apologist that's your call, but it's kind of silly

I read that interview and did not get that at all from what Steven said about Eddie.

But if that's how he feels about Shredders then that's how he feels. I am not getting upset because it may come across as harsh either. It's his view, and he feels strongly against it. That is fine. I have no problem with that. I know music is so vast that not everyone will enjoy everything, some people get famous for a style that they "made" themselves, but it's more the music they create reflects their identity of whom they are, and it resonates with a lot of people.

Some people just present their view of life harshly.

[Zantera]

It's not the first time SW comes out swinging hard out of nowhere either. There was that time he started shitting on Greta van Fleet quite aggressively out of nowhere, and the aforementioned time he bashed Flower Kings/Neal Morse/Transatlantic for being regressive and destroying prog for only having old ideas.

Either he's an asshole who just has strong opinions and says it like it is and can't act nice about it OR he is the biggest troll ever and he comes out with these strong quotes because it gets people talking and any attention for someone like him (who isn't Rolling Stones or Metallica big) is good attention.

Personally I don't really care THAT much. I listen to him for his music and his opinions can be quite amusing at times. Definitely seems to have a bit of an Omega complex or whatever but I think many musicians are probably like that, SW is just more outspoken.

[Adami]

But that's NOT what's happening here.  He said things that were demonstrably fucking rude and tactless.  if you wanna be a Steven Wilson apologist that's your call, but it's kind of silly

I read that interview and did not get that at all from what Steven said about Eddie.

But if that's how he feels about Shredders then that's how he feels. I am not getting upset because it may come across as harsh either. It's his view, and he feels strongly against it. That is fine. I have no problem with that. I know music is so vast that not everyone will enjoy everything, some people get famous for a style that they "made" themselves, but it's more the music they create reflects their identity of whom they are, and it resonates with a lot of people.

Some people just present their view of life harshly.

How is SW's reaction any different than people's here reaction to him? If you don't want anyone getting upset with SW, then follow your own advice and don't get upset with people here for simply stating how they feel.

[hefdaddy42]

It just find it a bit annoying, when people start questioning a person's character, when that person is discussing his opinion that was ASKED from him.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he was asked his opinion on guitar shredders.  He went out of his way to throw that in.  That's why he's an asshole.

[Ben_Jamin]

But that's NOT what's happening here.  He said things that were demonstrably fucking rude and tactless.  if you wanna be a Steven Wilson apologist that's your call, but it's kind of silly

I read that interview and did not get that at all from what Steven said about Eddie.

But if that's how he feels about Shredders then that's how he feels. I am not getting upset because it may come across as harsh either. It's his view, and he feels strongly against it. That is fine. I have no problem with that. I know music is so vast that not everyone will enjoy everything, some people get famous for a style that they "made" themselves, but it's more the music they create reflects their identity of whom they are, and it resonates with a lot of people.

Some people just present their view of life harshly.

How is SW's reaction any different than people's here reaction to him? If you don't want anyone getting upset with SW, then follow your own advice and don't get upset with people here for simply stating how they feel.

I am not upset that people are upset at Steven Wilson.

I just find it interesting, how a simple opinion caused such a discussion like this, based on a character trait.

It just find it a bit annoying, when people start questioning a person's character, when that person is discussing his opinion that was ASKED from him.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he was asked his opinion on guitar shredders.  He went out of his way to throw that in.  That's why he's an asshole.

What he did is expand on why he doesn't enjoy Eddie Van Halen, which isn't just because He's Eddie Van Halen, but because he finds Guitar Shredders vile, regardless of who it is. I am sure he finds Yngwie really repulsive. And that's not even going into Michael Angelo Batio level of shred with his mirror guitar  .  It would be interesting to hear his opinions on those guys. 

Anyways....

I listened to The Future Bites and I like it.

[Peter Mc]

No one here is shocked that Steven Wilson is not a rabid fan of Van Halen or guitar shredders.  If he’d said “It didn’t affect me personally as I was never really a big fan.  He was obviously an incredible talent, an innovator and I’m sure there’s a whole generation of guitar shredders out there who were inspired by him.  It’s just not the style of guitar playing that I gravitate to as you can probably tell from my music”. That would have been fine.

I was ok to a degree with some of what he said, thought it was maybe a little too much but nothing too awful but that word “vile” just made me wince.  I know it wasn’t in direct reference to EVH but rather that he was to blame for this vile form of music.  To me the word vile is way too strong of a word to use for a style of music that you don’t care for.  Particularly when you are a musician yourself and these are your fellow artists. 

[devieira73]

Just passing here to leave some good news:
https://whiplash.net/materias/news_734/328318-stevenwilson.html?fbclid=IwAR0B1uEg1MwnRtlpd9-k4yS0R5F02QHOwpR0w5vGZIm4SVzi-mk6MOpNEws
The site is in portuguese, but it has the original twitter's screeshots.

[ErHaO]

As someone who hasn't really clicked with the guy - I've tried, but most everything I've heard is just... bland and recycled to me - his comments are a constant source of entertainment.   Almost everything he rails against, and claims to be above, I see in his music.   I don't post this to piss on anyone's parade - I'm a listen and let listen kind of guy when it comes to music - I'm just presenting a sort of alternate view to point out how subjective his comments really are, no matter how certain he is of them.

For this latest album in particular I agree to some degree (except for the word bland, it does have a SW sound and I overall like it). The Future Bites does nothing new and does not sound like the future. And all of that is fine, but when an artist is presenting it as something novel, while shitting on other artists that stick to their genre of choice, it does not make you look good in my opinion.

[Dedalus]

What he did is expand on why he doesn't enjoy Eddie Van Halen, which isn't just because He's Eddie Van Halen, but because he finds Guitar Shredders vile, regardless of who it is. I am sure he finds Yngwie really repulsive. And that's not even going into Michael Angelo Batio level of shred with his mirror guitar .  It would be interesting to hear his opinions on those guys. 

Anyways....

I listened to The Future Bites and I like it.

Extraordinarily vile

[KevShmev]

I didn’t watch the video, but he probably comes across worse in print too. On his podcast he can be really opinionated and critics about other artists, even ones he says he loves, but there’s an element of humor there and his personality comes across a little better.

Agreed.  I just re-watched that part of the interview, and he certainly comes off a lot better when you watch it rather than just reading the words in print, but it wouldn't be the internet without a little outrage, right?   And he and Wolfie made peace and all is good with them, so, to quote Tom Petty, it's time to move on...

[faizoff]

For what it's worth and if anyone cares, he did apologize to Wolfgang

Dear @WolfVanHalen, apologies, no disrespect was meant to your father, an extraordinary musician. I personally never owned any
@VanHalen records and didn’t ever get into the style of playing, but he was clearly an incredible innovator.

So when asked about his passing I couldn’t honestly say I was  affected deeply by it, at least not in the way that my heroes Bowie or Prince’s passing had affected me.

This statement was given in honest humility. Forgive me for any offence unintentionally given, and I offer my deepest condolences. SW

And Wolfgang said 'sup

Incredibly kind of you to say, @StevenWilsonHQ. I meant no ill will in my previous tweets. As I said, the internet was exacerbating what you had said, as the internet tends to do. Still very kind of you. Be well, friend

And in album music news, SW apparently had enough tracks to make a double album but decided to instead to make a really short album. I do love the demo that's on the cassette "Anyone but me" in the deluxe edition which was supposed to be the closer originally.. As much as I really like the track I think it doesn't fit the album flow.

[KevShmev]

And in album music news, SW apparently had enough tracks to make a double album but decided to instead to make a really short album. I do love the demo that's on the cassette "Anyone but me" in the deluxe edition which was supposed to be the closer originally.. As much as I really like the track I think it doesn't fit the album flow.

You might be right.  I prefer Anybody But Me to Count of Unease, but I like both. I will need to listen to the album with both as the last track and see what I think works better.

I do wish the longer version of Unself, which is still less than 3 minutes, had been the proper album opener. 

[Fritzinger]

It's not the first time SW comes out swinging hard out of nowhere either. There was that time he started shitting on Greta van Fleet quite aggressively out of nowhere, and the aforementioned time he bashed Flower Kings/Neal Morse/Transatlantic for being regressive and destroying prog for only having old ideas.

Do you have a link for that? I have never heard about that statement!

[Zantera]

It's not the first time SW comes out swinging hard out of nowhere either. There was that time he started shitting on Greta van Fleet quite aggressively out of nowhere, and the aforementioned time he bashed Flower Kings/Neal Morse/Transatlantic for being regressive and destroying prog for only having old ideas.

Do you have a link for that? I have never heard about that statement!

I'm not sure what site had the original interview but I found a transcript of it on progarchives:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=88744

Also, he dissed Greta Van Fleet again which I'm sure won't go down with some of their fans
https://tonedeaf.thebrag.com/steve-wilson-greta-van-fleet/

This PR tour is probably doing pretty good for him, he's in the spotlight for sure.

[Kotowboy]

I love a couple of PT albums - but mainly for Gavin...

I saw SW on a guitar show on YouTube once and he was like " first of all i'm not a guitarist - i'm an artist and a writer ? "

Just seemed a bit snooty to me.

Yeah i'm an audiophile too and I love rock and hate rap and most pop. I can't stand Ed Sheeran - but If I was asked in an interview if I was a fan i'd just say " i'm not but i'm not a

fan of pop in general. It doesn't do anything for me. ". And leave it there.  If only cause I wouldn't want to have to deal with the backlash.

[RoeDent]

I love a couple of PT albums - but mainly for Gavin...

I saw SW on a guitar show on YouTube once and he was like " first of all i'm not a guitarist - i'm an artist and a writer ? "

Just seemed a bit snooty to me.

Yeah i'm an audiophile too and I love rock and hate rap and most pop. I can't stand Ed Sheeran - but If I was asked in an interview if I was a fan i'd just say " i'm not but i'm not a

fan of pop in general. It doesn't do anything for me. ". And leave it there.  If only cause I wouldn't want to have to deal with the backlash.

But of course because we live in These Times™, because you stated you're not a fan of pop in general, you will have deeply deeply offended the identity of pop fans and attacked them personally. This is what has happened since we threw all of our eggs into the basket of culture. We define ourselves by which celebrities we identify with. We spend our lives fighting battles over social media for them, even though the celebrities themselves will never even notice.

[Skeever]

It just find it a bit annoying, when people start questioning a person's character, when that person is discussing his opinion that was ASKED from him.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he was asked his opinion on guitar shredders.  He went out of his way to throw that in.  That's why he's an asshole.

I agree totally. It's one of the reasons I find his personality so impalpable.

Steven's always been this way, and it's never sat easy with me. In PT he was always knocking other prog bands, going so far as to call The Flower Kings and Spock's Beard "the death of music". Then the Insurgentes documentary was almost unwatchable with all his obnoxious opinions, like shooting the iPod with the rifle. When he went full retro-prog, he still went out of his way to (stupidly) insist his music was jazz. Now this.

His whole schtick around always asserting that he's "above" his audience by insisting that he's not one of them has gotten stale, and is very omega of him. I'm tired of it. I don't like this album, and I didn't like To The Bone very much either. For me personally, I think it's just time to move on.

[SoundscapeMN]

https://twitter.com/SpectrumPulse/status/1357144761191251969

The Needle Drop, who shit on Raven, chimed in about TFB

not a steven wilson fan at all. is it weird that i found it oddly tolerable? i mean, yeah, it's derivative and soulless as hell, but he did manage to cobble together a pretty faithful art pop album, imo.

[Kotowboy]

It's funny that Gavin Harrison is now in a band which sounds exactly like latter day Porcupine Tree - and even have the same initials - Pineapple Thief.

[Buddyhunter1]

https://twitter.com/SpectrumPulse/status/1357144761191251969

The Needle Drop, who shit on Raven, chimed in about TFB

not a steven wilson fan at all. is it weird that i found it oddly tolerable? i mean, yeah, it's derivative and soulless as hell, but he did manage to cobble together a pretty faithful art pop album, imo.

Damn, what a plot twist

[Fritzinger]

It's funny that Gavin Harrison is now in a band which sounds exactly like latter day Porcupine Tree - and even have the same initials - Pineapple Thief.

I guess it's just the kind of music he likes Although I think Pineapple Thief sounds more like Porcupine Tree of the Stupid Dream - In Absentia era, not like the metal-infused last albums of Porcupine.

In my opinion, this is exactly where he belongs. His playing is so clever yet elegant and it benefits introverted art rock music perfectly. He also played on Le Sacre Du Travail by The Tangent and while his performance was stunning on that one too, it wasn't incorporated as well as in PT (or PT).

[Dave_Manchester]

I really like Anthony Fantano, he's very articulate (rare for Youtube reviewers), he obviously has a good knowledge of the history of many music genres, and he almost always takes the time to clearly lay out the reasons for his opinion. That said, his Steven Wilson reviews (of Raven and HCE) I take with a smidgen of salt. Similar to Darren Lock (another Youtuber, mentioned on here before for his infamous review of Scenes from A Memory), he pretty much dismisses anything new that claims to be in some way 'prog'. They both have an apparent reverence for the old Crimson and Genesis and Floyd classics and come across as being very biased towards 'new' music in the 'old' genre. At least that's the way I perceive it (maybe I just don't quite understand their points - what, for example, does it mean when Fantano vaguely said he wished the 'sounds' of the track The Raven That Refused To Sing were "more interesting"?). Check out Darren Lock's review of To The Bone for an example of what I'm talking about (note, for the first 4 minutes of his review he's joking).   

As for The Future Bites, I love 12 Things I Forgot and Anyone But Me. Man of the People and Count of Unease are really good. The rest isn't doing it for me just now, but I'll see how it beds in over time.

[HOF]

It's funny that Gavin Harrison is now in a band which sounds exactly like latter day Porcupine Tree - and even have the same initials - Pineapple Thief.

I guess it's just the kind of music he likes Although I think Pineapple Thief sounds more like Porcupine Tree of the Stupid Dream - In Absentia era, not like the metal-infused last albums of Porcupine.

In my opinion, this is exactly where he belongs. His playing is so clever yet elegant and it benefits introverted art rock music perfectly. He also played on Le Sacre Du Travail by The Tangent and while his performance was stunning on that one too, it wasn't incorporated as well as in PT (or PT).

Random thing I learned recently from Steve Hogarth’s podcast. If you’ve ever heard Hogarth’s pre-Marillion project How We Live, Gavin Harrison actually auditioned to be the drummer for the album, but Hogarth decided he was a little too much for what he was going for. He says every time he sees him Gavin gives him grief about being turned down for the gig.

[KevShmev]

Steven's always been this way, and it's never sat easy with me. In PT he was always knocking other prog bands, going so far as to call The Flower Kings and Spock's Beard "the death of music". Then the Insurgentes documentary was almost unwatchable with all his obnoxious opinions, like shooting the iPod with the rifle. When he went full retro-prog, he still went out of his way to (stupidly) insist his music was jazz. Now this.

His whole schtick around always asserting that he's "above" his audience by insisting that he's not one of them has gotten stale, and is very omega of him. I'm tired of it. I don't like this album, and I didn't like To The Bone very much either. For me personally, I think it's just time to move on.

Seems like most of the musicians we think of as very artistic always seems to be a little eccentric, quirky, and, well, arrogant.  Those attributes can make them a bit insufferable at times, but they are also why they create such great art.  Prince, one of Wilson's music heroes, was similar in that regard.  There is a self-confidence to their arty persona that can oft-putting, for sure.

[SoundscapeMN]

Amoeba Records:
Steven Wilson - What's in My Bag? [At Home Edition]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbtvzJdKYTc

[NoseofNicko]

Fantano reviewed The Future Bites if anyone’s interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQpHaXqGlCg&t

[DTA]

It’s refreshing to hear a musician/public figure actually give an honest opinion rather than fashion the least offensive response possible for a given situation. So much stuff feels like a PR statement nowadays where you can’t express an honest thought without some kind of backlash.

[Ben_Jamin]

It’s refreshing to hear a musician/public figure actually give an honest opinion rather than fashion the least offensive response possible for a given situation. So much stuff feels like a PR statement nowadays where you can’t express an honest thought without some kind of backlash.

I respect them more for being true to themselves and standing their ground.

[Mladen]

I find it hilarious that one of Wilson's harshest critics over the years digs an album that a big chunk of the fanbase dismisses. 

[Nel]

I find it hilarious that one of Wilson's harshest critics over the years digs an album that a big chunk of the fanbase dismisses. 

I like how he even says in the video "I know what you're going to say: 'of course YOU would like it'." 

[KevShmev]

I find it hilarious that one of Wilson's harshest critics over the years digs an album that a big chunk of the fanbase dismisses. 

That reminds of the Rush critics back in the day who would go to their concert only so they could write a review in their local newspaper and rip the band to shreds while all but admitting in the review that they hated the band. 

[RoeDent]

It’s refreshing to hear a musician/public figure actually give an honest opinion rather than fashion the least offensive response possible for a given situation. So much stuff feels like a PR statement nowadays where you can’t express an honest thought without some kind of backlash.

I'm inclined to agree with this. While it was refreshing to see a seemingly healthy artist/media relationship in the prog community, pulling the whole "We're fans like you" card, sometimes it gets too close for comfort. For instance, hell will freeze over on the day The Prog Report publish a review that isn't gushing about a Morse/Portnoy release. They come across as enormous fanboys.

[Fritzinger]

It’s refreshing to hear a musician/public figure actually give an honest opinion rather than fashion the least offensive response possible for a given situation. So much stuff feels like a PR statement nowadays where you can’t express an honest thought without some kind of backlash.

I guess for exactly this reason Steven didn't post my review, although I sent it to who ever manages his website. Just not positive enough.