Steven Wilson solo career thread - v. The Harmony Codex in 2023!

[Buddyhunter1]

Storm Corrosion 2?

[ReaperKK]

Storm Corrosion 2?

I'd take it, or really any guitar driven album.

[kirksnosehair]

Seriously doubt it's Porcupine tree because Porcupine Tree was never referred to or considered to be a "collaboration"

[jammindude]

Seriously doubt it's Porcupine tree because Porcupine Tree was never referred to or considered to be a "collaboration"

I thought the entire reason Steven Wilson went solo in the first place is because he no longer wanted to compromise his artistic vision with the other members of porcupine tree. If he was relying on their feedback and including their artistic input on what porcupine tree should be, I would call that collaborative.

[kirksnosehair]

Every band that ever existed is a collaboration by definition unless there is only a single artist playing every instrument who also wrote every single note of the music. 


What I'm saying is in the traditional sense, the word "collaboration" isn't often used in reference to a BAND such as Porcupine Tree.  It's mostly referred as, well, a band.


Storm Corrosion is far more likely as that's clearly a traditional collaboration with another established artist.


But hey, don't take my word for it, take Steven Wilson's word for it.

Steven Wilson has also worked with OSI, Marillion, JBK, Orphaned Land, Paatos, Theo Travis, Yoko Ono, Fish, Cipher and Anja Garbarek performing songwriting duties as well as performing musically. Most recently, Wilson was featured on the Pendulum album “Immersion”, with his vocals featuring on “The Fountain”. He made a guest appearance on Dream Theater’s 2007 album, Systematic Chaos on the song “Repentance”, as one of several musical guests recorded apologizing to important people in their lives for wrongdoings in the past.


Steven produced and contributed backing vocals, guitar and keyboards for Opeth on the albums Blackwater Park, Deliverance, and Damnation. In addition to this, he has collaborated on many projects with Belgian experimental musician Dirk Serries of Vidna Obmana and Fear Falls Burning, most notably on their collaboration project Continuum which has so far produced two albums. Wilson is also featured on a Fovea Hex EP “Allure” (Part 3 of the “Neither Speak Nor Remain Silent” trilogy of EP’s) on bass guitar. This EP was released in April 2007 through Die-Stadt Musik.

Notice anything missing from his exhaustive list of collaborations?

[KevShmev]

I think a better way to put it is that while PT was almost always a one-man show in the past when it came to the creative and writing process, a song here and a song there aside, I doubt the other members of the band would be anxious to get back together just to be Wilson's backup band while he runs the show again, so if they were to get back together, it would likely be more of a collaboration than it was prior.

[Mladen]

Seriously doubt it's Porcupine tree because Porcupine Tree was never referred to or considered to be a "collaboration"

I thought the entire reason Steve and Wilson went solo in the first place is because he no longer wanted to compromise his artistic vision with the other members of porcupine tree. If he was relying on their feedback and including their artistic input on what porcupine tree should be, I would call that collaborative.

Maybe that's the collaboration? 

[jammindude]

Seriously doubt it's Porcupine tree because Porcupine Tree was never referred to or considered to be a "collaboration"

I thought the entire reason Steve and Wilson went solo in the first place is because he no longer wanted to compromise his artistic vision with the other members of porcupine tree. If he was relying on their feedback and including their artistic input on what porcupine tree should be, I would call that collaborative.

Maybe that's the collaboration? 

 

Stupid talk to text.

I fixed it.

I just seem to remember that Steven Wilson went solo because there were things he wanted to try that the other members of PT (Barbari mostly) weren’t interested in doing. I mean, if it was truly *his band*, he could have easily said “too bad. This is what we’re doing.” Or even changed musicians and still called it PT. But he didn’t. Which leads me to believe that the other members had a say in the direction of the music that Steven was no longer happy with.

[The Letter M]

Seriously doubt it's Porcupine tree because Porcupine Tree was never referred to or considered to be a "collaboration"

I thought the entire reason Steve and Wilson went solo in the first place is because he no longer wanted to compromise his artistic vision with the other members of porcupine tree. If he was relying on their feedback and including their artistic input on what porcupine tree should be, I would call that collaborative.

Maybe that's the collaboration? 

 

Stupid talk to text.

I fixed it.

I just seem to remember that Steven Wilson went solo because there were things he wanted to try that the other members of PT (Barbari mostly) weren’t interested in doing. I mean, if it was truly *his band*, he could have easily said “too bad. This is what we’re doing.” Or even changed musicians and still called it PT. But he didn’t. Which leads me to believe that the other members had a say in the direction of the music that Steven was no longer happy with.

Honestly, I think a lot of PT's sound, outside of Wilson, comes from Barbieri's keyboards. His work in PT is pretty essential to the band's sound, maybe more so than Edwin or even Harrison, who are a great rhythm section, but I could probably listen to Wilson and Barbieri play with another rhythm section and still feel and hear the PT sound from them.

-Marc.

[Buddyhunter1]

Honestly, I think a lot of PT's sound, outside of Wilson, comes from Barbieri's keyboards. His work in PT is pretty essential to the band's sound, maybe more so than Edwin or even Harrison, who are a great rhythm section, but I could probably listen to Wilson and Barbieri play with another rhythm section and still feel and hear the PT sound from them.

-Marc.

This is absolutely true.

[KevShmev]

Honestly, I think a lot of PT's sound, outside of Wilson, comes from Barbieri's keyboards. His work in PT is pretty essential to the band's sound, maybe more so than Edwin or even Harrison, who are a great rhythm section, but I could probably listen to Wilson and Barbieri play with another rhythm section and still feel and hear the PT sound from them.

-Marc.

This is absolutely true.

For sure.  I suspect many would view Harrison as the 2nd most important member of PT (after Wilson), but the band was great for a solid decade before he joined the band, and Wilson's solo career has been awesome with various drummers.  Adding an all-world drummer to his music is like icing on the cake, but it is not part of the cake.

[Ben_Jamin]

Barbieri is essential to the Porcupine Tree atmosphere. For me, he is one of the reasons I enjoy Deadwing a lot.

[Fritzinger]

Seriously doubt it's Porcupine tree because Porcupine Tree was never referred to or considered to be a "collaboration"

I thought the entire reason Steve and Wilson went solo in the first place is because he no longer wanted to compromise his artistic vision with the other members of porcupine tree. If he was relying on their feedback and including their artistic input on what porcupine tree should be, I would call that collaborative.

Maybe that's the collaboration? 

 

Stupid talk to text.

I fixed it.

I just seem to remember that Steven Wilson went solo because there were things he wanted to try that the other members of PT (Barbari mostly) weren’t interested in doing. I mean, if it was truly *his band*, he could have easily said “too bad. This is what we’re doing.” Or even changed musicians and still called it PT. But he didn’t. Which leads me to believe that the other members had a say in the direction of the music that Steven was no longer happy with.

Honestly, I think a lot of PT's sound, outside of Wilson, comes from Barbieri's keyboards. His work in PT is pretty essential to the band's sound, maybe more so than Edwin or even Harrison, who are a great rhythm section, but I could probably listen to Wilson and Barbieri play with another rhythm section and still feel and hear the PT sound from them.

-Marc.

I rarely disagree with you, but on this point, I have to Gavin is my MVP besides Steven in Porcupine Tree. Yes, Barbieri contributed a lot to the atmosphere. But for me, Gavin's groove and style are inevitable for the band. Chris Maitland was a good drummer, but Gavin brought the band to another level.

[Max Kuehnau]

Seriously doubt it's Porcupine tree because Porcupine Tree was never referred to or considered to be a "collaboration"

I thought the entire reason Steve and Wilson went solo in the first place is because he no longer wanted to compromise his artistic vision with the other members of porcupine tree. If he was relying on their feedback and including their artistic input on what porcupine tree should be, I would call that collaborative.

Maybe that's the collaboration? 

 

Stupid talk to text.

I fixed it.

I just seem to remember that Steven Wilson went solo because there were things he wanted to try that the other members of PT (Barbari mostly) weren’t interested in doing. I mean, if it was truly *his band*, he could have easily said “too bad. This is what we’re doing.” Or even changed musicians and still called it PT. But he didn’t. Which leads me to believe that the other members had a say in the direction of the music that Steven was no longer happy with.

Honestly, I think a lot of PT's sound, outside of Wilson, comes from Barbieri's keyboards. His work in PT is pretty essential to the band's sound, maybe more so than Edwin or even Harrison, who are a great rhythm section, but I could probably listen to Wilson and Barbieri play with another rhythm section and still feel and hear the PT sound from them.

-Marc.

I rarely disagree with you, but on this point, I have to Gavin is my MVP besides Steven in Porcupine Tree. Yes, Barbieri contributed a lot to the atmosphere. But for me, Gavin's groove and style are inevitable for the band. Chris Maitland was a good drummer, but Gavin brought the band to another level.

So do I. Maitland was the Lars of the band comparatively. (and yes, I view him as the most important member, even more so than SW.)

[Buddyhunter1]

So do I. Maitland was the Lars of the band comparatively. (and yes, I view him as the most important member, even more so than SW.)

*looks at avatar*

I wonder why

[Max Kuehnau]

So do I. Maitland was the Lars of the band comparatively. (and yes, I view him as the most important member, even more so than SW.)

*looks at avatar*

I wonder why

good joke, but Gav's musicality was unparalled in that band (and is now elsewhere), that's why I think so.

[Ben_Jamin]

Haha, I think this just proves how essential each band member is to the overall Porcupine Tree sound. Even though it began as a Steven Wilson project, it evolved into this Band effort.

When Gavin came along. Their sound also was changing from a Space-Rock, Psychedelic, Rock. To now, a more Psychedelic, Rock, Metal. This was felt with In Absentia and really solidified itself with Deadwing. I do not think there was any song as heavy and metal until Deadwing. And this is due to how Gavin incorporated his Drumming into the overall Porcupine Tree Sound.

Crazy how Gavin only recorded 4 albums with them. And Fear of A Blank Planet being his best album, that really showcases his Drumming technicality.

[KevShmev]

but Gav's musicality was unparalled in that band (and is now elsewhere), that's why I think so.

Okay, buy songwriting will always be more important than musicianship (which I know can a tough sell for some on this forum), and Harrison, who had a co-writing credit on less than 10 PT songs IIRC, simply doesn't compare to Wilson in that regard. 

[Zantera]

I really like Gavin as much as most people here but he's the one out of the four I would say is replaceable. Steven you can't replace obviously, I agree with those saying Richard is a MVP and I think his soundscapes and keyboard work really elevate the material and I consider his sound almost the trademark sound of PT. Colin for me is a bit underrated because his playing provides a really nice laid back feel to many of the songs. I think Maitland was a fine drummer but even though Gavin is arguably better, I think the fact the other 3 members were still there is what made the transition smooth.

But I think overall the drummer (for the most part) just don't have enough impact on the actual song writing to determine the outcome of the album being good or bad. A great drummer will most definitely elevate the album with the playing but with PT it always felt like the drumming was in the backseat. Not to say it wasn't important, but the songwriting is really what makes the difference. It's a problem I have with the last few Pineapple Thief albums is despite the addition of Gavin, the songwriting (IMO) just isn't as good as it was on their albums from 10-20 years ago and even though the drumming is vastly improved, it ultimately doesn't lift the quality that much. :/

[Ben_Jamin]

Colin brings this laid back vibe and that makes those older Porcupine Tree songs like Russia On Ice and Hatesong. The way he presents himself, is reflected in the style that he plays he bass, and it shows when he plays live.


Honestly, at this point, I don't think any member is replaceable. This lineup, to me, is where Porcupine Tree Culminated.

[Ben_Jamin]

I really like Gavin as much as most people here but he's the one out of the four I would say is replaceable. Steven you can't replace obviously, I agree with those saying Richard is a MVP and I think his soundscapes and keyboard work really elevate the material and I consider his sound almost the trademark sound of PT. Colin for me is a bit underrated because his playing provides a really nice laid back feel to many of the songs. I think Maitland was a fine drummer but even though Gavin is arguably better, I think the fact the other 3 members were still there is what made the transition smooth.

But I think overall the drummer (for the most part) just don't have enough impact on the actual song writing to determine the outcome of the album being good or bad. A great drummer will most definitely elevate the album with the playing but with PT it always felt like the drumming was in the backseat. Not to say it wasn't important, but the songwriting is really what makes the difference. It's a problem I have with the last few Pineapple Thief albums is despite the addition of Gavin, the songwriting (IMO) just isn't as good as it was on their albums from 10-20 years ago and even though the drumming is vastly improved, it ultimately doesn't lift the quality that much. :/

I agree. You can have the most talented musicians in the world together, but if the songwriting isn't there, it won't sound great.

It's what happened to a lot of the so called Supergroups.

The only reason Bands are good, is due to the songwriting, either by one man or the band itself.

When the band does it, it's usually jammed and then written based off those jams. Otherwise, it's someone who brings in a riff, Idea or even a completed Demo and the band will work with those ideas and transform each part into the song. The band comes to a consensus on what is good and where to take it.

Bands with One main songwriter, or one that originates from one songwriter, all follow what that songwriter wants his music to be. The songwriter will look for musicians that can best represent the sounds he wants his music to sound, and as time goes on, the songwriters style may change and then the musicians change. The members of the band at that time, are not like band members and are more hired at will, but if course are still treated with respect as if they are a band member, because they are, it's in the business term that they are not band members, if you get what I mean...

That's what Porcupine Tree was at first. Then it became the band effort where each member put their touch and personality into the music and became Porcupine Tree the band.

[KevShmev]

Good point about Pineapple Thief, Zantera.  I am a lukewarm fan of theirs, but a friend, who got into them big time a few years ago and is a huge Harrison fan, even concedes that the last two albums aren't very good, although Dissolution had a couple of major keepers (I agree on that one).  In other words, the addition of Harrison as the drummer made almost no difference since, as we have said, songwriting is what matters the most.  Take the band whose existence inspired the creation of this very forum.  Their musicianship is obviously second to none when it comes to rock bands, but Dream Theater never would have survived this long and kept such a dedicated fanbase without good songs. 

[twosuitsluke]

I'm as surprised as anyone to find thos album is climbing my rankings fir the year. I like it way more than I expected after A) hearing the singles, and B) hearing the album itself for the first time. Currently sat at my #3 AotY.

[Elite]

songwriting will always be more important than musicianship

yes!

[KevShmev]

I'm as surprised as anyone to find thos album is climbing my rankings fir the year. I like it way more than I expected after A) hearing the singles, and B) hearing the album itself for the first time. Currently sat at my #3 AotY.

I'd probably be listening to it a lot more if I didn't have tons of other new stuff I am enjoying more at the moment (Transatlantic, LTE, Taylor Swift), but it's still a very good record.  Not one of his best, but still a worthy addition to his already killer catalogue.  Personal Shopper taking up so much of what is already not a long running order is still the biggest hair in the soup for me.  But, a lot of the bonus songs are really nice, so we still got a lot of minutes of new good SW material. 

[Fritzinger]

But I think overall the drummer (for the most part) just don't have enough impact on the actual song writing to determine the outcome of the album being good or bad. A great drummer will most definitely elevate the album with the playing but with PT it always felt like the drumming was in the backseat. Not to say it wasn't important, but the songwriting is really what makes the difference. It's a problem I have with the last few Pineapple Thief albums is despite the addition of Gavin, the songwriting (IMO) just isn't as good as it was on their albums from 10-20 years ago and even though the drumming is vastly improved, it ultimately doesn't lift the quality that much. :/

Here's how important a drummer can be:
If Steven decides to reunite Porcupine Tree and Gavin Harrison is not part of it, I (as a massive fan of Steve) will actively not listen to the album they'd put out.
Up The Downstair is an example of a collection of Steven Wilson-compositions that in their original form I have absolutely no use for. I never listen to it, I don't really like it. But the new version with Gavin on it, now that version I DO like and often listen to.
If Gavin decided to quit Pineapple Thief, I would probably stop listening to their new stuff. And I have listened to some of their pre-Gavin music and it just doesn't appeal to me nearly as much as their latest works. Because this drummer makes the band whole.
And so, I completely disagree with you, I think a drummer can lift up someone else's compositions and completely turn it around 180° for me. Especially, if we're talking about Gavin Harrison.

[Max Kuehnau]

But I think overall the drummer (for the most part) just don't have enough impact on the actual song writing to determine the outcome of the album being good or bad. A great drummer will most definitely elevate the album with the playing but with PT it always felt like the drumming was in the backseat. Not to say it wasn't important, but the songwriting is really what makes the difference. It's a problem I have with the last few Pineapple Thief albums is despite the addition of Gavin, the songwriting (IMO) just isn't as good as it was on their albums from 10-20 years ago and even though the drumming is vastly improved, it ultimately doesn't lift the quality that much. :/

Here's how important a drummer can be:
If Steven decides to reunite Porcupine Tree and Gavin Harrison is not part of it, I (as a massive fan of Steve) will actively not listen to the album they'd put out.
Up The Downstair is an example of a collection of Steven Wilson-compositions that in their original form I have absolutely no use for. I never listen to it, I don't really like it. But the new version with Gavin on it, now that version I DO like and often listen to.
If Gavin decided to quit Pineapple Thief, I would probably stop listening to their new stuff. And I have listened to some of their pre-Gavin music and it just doesn't appeal to me nearly as much as their latest works. Because this drummer makes the band whole.
And so, I completely disagree with you, I think a drummer can lift up someone else's compositions and completely turn it around 180° for me. Especially, if we're talking about Gavin Harrison.

Thank you.

[Zantera]

I feel like the difference is PT made some of their best albums without Gavin, even if him joining breathed new life into the band as well. I feel like if you look at Stupid Dream/Lightbulb Sun vs In Absentia/Deadwing, putting aside personal favorites it's just 4 great albums with 2 different drummers.

[KevShmev]

Eh, I found the newer release of Up the Downstair to be not as good (which I have said since its release) because Harrison overplayed the crap out of too many parts.  Similar to how he overplayed the crap out of Hatesong on the last tour the band did and made that live version virtually unlistenable.  Harrison is similar to Jordan Rudess in that he is great, but just can't help himself too often to play as many notes/beat as possible.

[Zantera]

Eh, I found the newer release of Up the Downstair to be not as good (which I have said since its release) because Harrison overplayed the crap out of too many parts.  Similar to how he overplayed the crap out of Hatesong on the last tour the band did and made that live version virtually unlistenable.  Harrison is similar to Jordan Rudess in that he is great, but just can't help himself too often to play as many notes/beat as possible.

I agree with this 100% both with UTD and Hatesong but I can also imagine the predicament of giving your own interpretation of an already written and recorded song. You could play it just like the original and some will love that, some might think it's boring/safe, or you could try to elevate/put your own spin on it.

Gavin's drumming on Hatesong for me was equally distracting as John Wesley doing the Dark Matter guitar solo. Maybe not as bad but on a similar level.

[KevShmev]

Eh, I found the newer release of Up the Downstair to be not as good (which I have said since its release) because Harrison overplayed the crap out of too many parts.  Similar to how he overplayed the crap out of Hatesong on the last tour the band did and made that live version virtually unlistenable.  Harrison is similar to Jordan Rudess in that he is great, but just can't help himself too often to play as many notes/beat as possible.

I agree with this 100% both with UTD and Hatesong but I can also imagine the predicament of giving your own interpretation of an already written and recorded song. You could play it just like the original and some will love that, some might think it's boring/safe, or you could try to elevate/put your own spin on it.

Gavin's drumming on Hatesong for me was equally distracting as John Wesley doing the Dark Matter guitar solo. Maybe not as bad but on a similar level.

True. I get that about putting your own spin on it, but it felt like Harrison's spin on it was too often, "hey, let's overplay the crap out of it!"  A little restraint is not a bad thing.  The original Hatesong has such an amazing and bad ass groove, and that is completely absent in the live version with Harrison.  But, hey, he played some really hard stuff and is a technical bad ass, so yay that, right? 

[DTA]

I think the issue with him on UTD is that the album has a real spacey, trance vibe to it and the programmed drums add to that atmosphere. Adding real drums automatically sounds out of place no matter how "true" to the song a drummer is.

[Fritzinger]

Eh, I found the newer release of Up the Downstair to be not as good (which I have said since its release) because Harrison overplayed the crap out of too many parts.  Similar to how he overplayed the crap out of Hatesong on the last tour the band did and made that live version virtually unlistenable.  Harrison is similar to Jordan Rudess in that he is great, but just can't help himself too often to play as many notes/beat as possible.

Interesting, I find Hatesong very boring in the original version 

[PixelDream]

I think the issue with him on UTD is that the album has a real spacey, trance vibe to it and the programmed drums add to that atmosphere. Adding real drums automatically sounds out of place no matter how "true" to the song a drummer is.

I agree. It's a shame the original is getting harder to find.

[Buddyhunter1]

Never heard the Octane Twisted version of Hatesong, starting it now. Will report back with my thoughts.

EDIT: This is fine. He overplays a bit yeah, but not to the point where it kills the groove in any of the important bits. He goes pretty over-the-top in the outro but that part's basically a jam section, so why not?