Author Topic: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...  (Read 30911 times)

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #105 on: January 04, 2021, 01:46:45 PM »
I'm starting to get a bit long in the tooth, and I love the shit out of change.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #106 on: January 04, 2021, 01:59:44 PM »
I got that, but one thing is to say you don’t like it (and that’s completely fine), but another is to say you cannot understand why someone who’s been a DT fan for over 10 years likes it. I could go on on a long-ass post developing why I love TA (I have been there before) but I see no reason to. It’s perfecty fine that you don’t like TA, it’s just your particular wording that got my attention lol.


I just find that the people who have been with the band the longest seem to be the ones who are least likely to think "The Astonishing" is a great album.  I think it's great that it brought some new fans into the fold and it's just my observation that more recent / younger / newer fans seem to appreciate this album more than people who have been with the band since the beginning like me. 


People tend to dislike change and the older you are the more you tend to dislike it and I think that may have at least something to do with it.

The reason why I enjoy it is because of the way it is presented actually. I listen to it as a Broadway play, I can imagine the settings, the characters, the acting, all happening on the stage. And why, I feel, it would've been best presented as a JP project, featuring the music composed by Dream Theater, had JLB be Arhys, Gabriel, or Lord Nefaryus, and had other singers guest for the other characters. But I also know, where is he going to get the funding for that, and what about playing it live.

And this is one major reason, I feel, TA wasn't received as well. Most metal, and casual, listeners of music, do not listen to Broadway or Opera, and most do not know the way Music and Songs are presented in these styles. The Astonishing, is presented as an Opera, hence a Rock Opera.

This is not to be confused with a Concept Album. A concept album, is still presented as your casual music album, the only difference is it has a theme, narrative, or story, presented by the music and lyrics. The music, can have themes spread throughout  and the lyrics can be the only thing carrying on the story/narrative or theme, if the music has no theme.

If JP would've gotten his way and presented it Live first, and had the album available later after the tour, or better yet if possible at the shows. That would've been a cool experiment, as we the fans are putting our trust in the band and are going in with blind faith that the band will present us with a good live show. The experiment here is...Who would buy a ticket for an album, we haven't yet heard as fans, and that show is that album? I definitely would've went and bought a ticket.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #107 on: January 04, 2021, 03:11:28 PM »
Fan since 1992.  While I wouldn't rank it at the top, I love it.

Fan since 1993.  While I wouldn't rank it at the top, I love it.

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #108 on: January 04, 2021, 03:28:38 PM »
Fan since 1999, I love The Astonishing and I prefer it to Distance Over Time. It was such a fulfilling and rewarding experience. It's not a perfect masterpiece and I never listened to the full thing once I created my own personal edit (skipping some songs and doing little trimmings here and there), but I enjoyed so much all the journey for it.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #109 on: January 04, 2021, 05:14:38 PM »
Fan since 1996, and I love The Astonishing. I don't view it as a Dream Theater album. Distance Over Time, that is a DT album. TA is a Dream Theater musical, more elaborate than what other bands did with concept albums.

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #110 on: January 04, 2021, 07:35:27 PM »
I've been into DT since 1992 and TA is a top tier album of theirs to me.  I even like it more than Scenes, and that's saying a lot!
I also like d/t as much as TA in it's own way.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #111 on: January 05, 2021, 06:53:09 AM »
First, so's everyone knows: fan since 1992, big fan - well, moderate fan - of Broadway, and TA is in the bottom quarter as far as albums go.

It's interesting, though; I see a lot of posts that almost seem to want to prove Barry wrong, but I also see a good portion of them that seem to have caveats, exceptions and loopholes to do so. He said "great album". I don't think it's a "great album".  Even though it's in the bottom quarter, it doesn't SUCK (I'll listen to the "worst" of Dream Theater before I'd put on ANY Radiohead), it's just not something I go to very often.  I DO consider it a "Dream Theater" album - it was put out by the band "Dream Theater", after all - but it's not really indicative of the band as a whole.  And all of that is ok; it's okay to not love everything that every band does.  I'm a ride-or-die Kiss fan, but Crazy Crazy Nights - a hit for the band - is a non-starter for me. 

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #112 on: January 05, 2021, 08:04:24 AM »
First, so's everyone knows: fan since 1992, big fan - well, moderate fan - of Broadway, and TA is in the bottom quarter as far as albums go.

It's interesting, though; I see a lot of posts that almost seem to want to prove Barry wrong, but I also see a good portion of them that seem to have caveats, exceptions and loopholes to do so. He said "great album". I don't think it's a "great album".  Even though it's in the bottom quarter, it doesn't SUCK (I'll listen to the "worst" of Dream Theater before I'd put on ANY Radiohead), it's just not something I go to very often.  I DO consider it a "Dream Theater" album - it was put out by the band "Dream Theater", after all - but it's not really indicative of the band as a whole.  And all of that is ok; it's okay to not love everything that every band does.  I'm a ride-or-die Kiss fan, but Crazy Crazy Nights - a hit for the band - is a non-starter for me.

It's not indicative of the band, because it's not meant to be. If you go in expecting that, you'll greatly be disappointed. That's what DT12 is meant to be.

I also, see the reason. Why the band, or JP, wanted to release it under the band name. I mean, why not....I am happy he released it under the Dream Theater name as well though.

Fan since 1996, and I love The Astonishing. I don't view it as a Dream Theater album. Distance Over Time, that is a DT album. TA is a Dream Theater musical, more elaborate than what other bands did with concept albums.

That's the word I was thinking off, but just couldn't think of it.

It is Dream Theater album. The album isn't your run of the mill concept though. It's a musical. Like a Disney movie. That's how I see it. And if you want to know the gritty details, read the book. It's like watching The Little Mermaid Disney Movie, and then reading the actual book and realizing "Holy Shit, Disney really watered this down."

But if you don't like the story, you won't like the album. Because the music is used to show the emotions of the characters and to set the mood of what is happening during that scene. Not the other way around.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #113 on: January 05, 2021, 09:23:07 AM »
It's interesting, though; I see a lot of posts that almost seem to want to prove Barry wrong, but I also see a good portion of them that seem to have caveats, exceptions and loopholes to do so.

I don't see that at all.  I just see people disagreeing.  What's wrong with that?  I think you are reading something in that isn't there.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #114 on: January 05, 2021, 10:45:45 AM »
It's all good, I'm controversial!  :rollin

Offline Stadler

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #115 on: January 05, 2021, 11:16:56 AM »
It's interesting, though; I see a lot of posts that almost seem to want to prove Barry wrong, but I also see a good portion of them that seem to have caveats, exceptions and loopholes to do so.

I don't see that at all.  I just see people disagreeing.  What's wrong with that?  I think you are reading something in that isn't there.

Wouldn't be the first time!   :) :) :) :)

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #116 on: January 05, 2021, 02:17:27 PM »
I'm starting to get a bit long in the tooth, and I love the shit out of change.

Quite. If every DT album sounded like a copy of Images and Words - I wouldn't be a fan.

It must be great being a fan or AC/DC of Motorhead or Slayer. You get pretty much the same album every time.

All of my favourite bands - No two of their albums sound identical.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #117 on: January 05, 2021, 03:05:03 PM »
I wouldn't want them to make every album sound like "Images & Words," but I'd also prefer that they don't make another "The Astonishing" or "Systematic Chaos"


All bands morph over time, especially as members change.  I would expect nothing less from Dream Theater, but if I'm being 100% honest (and I know this is a bit of a hot take) but I think Mike Portnoy might have been on to something way back when he suggested that Dream Theater needed a bit of a hiatus to recharge the creative juices.  I know he probably had other motives, specifically the gig he seemed to think he was going to get with Avenged Sevenfold that ended up not panning out, but I do think that generally speaking the Mangini era has been rather spotty in terms of overall album quality when you compare it to the Portnoy era albums. 


Now before you all jump down my throat and tell me it's not Mangini's fault, I AGREE!!  It's got nothing to do with Mangini, he's not writing the songs. 


Here's my theory:  Portnoy created a certain type of creative energy that pushed the band one way and Petrucci was kind of the opposing creative force.  When you put them together it's like mixing valium and alcohol.  The effects and relative efficacy of both are enhanced by the presence of the other.  But when you take one side of those opposing forces out of the equation and the songwriting settles into a different rhythm, well, you end up with a little bit less consistency and some of that "magic" or "secret sauce" that made Dream Theater special was diminished by Portnoy's departure. 


It's just a theory but I base it on my own songwriting experience.  My songs were...good.  Nothing really special, until I hooked up with my writing partner.  The push/pull of him and I working together created something that me working alone or him working alone would never have achieved.  It's why I like to allow the musicians I collaborate with to actually modify my songs if they have a good idea.  In fact, I encourage it.  Anyway, I think the reduction in that creative tension has changed the contours of Dream Theater's songs in ways that haven't always resulted in the best output. 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #118 on: January 05, 2021, 03:09:46 PM »
I don't think any of the Mangini albums touch the best ones they did with Portnoy (I&W, Awake, Scenes, 6DOIT), and I doubt the band will come close to that overall level of greatness on a complete album again, but I do think all are upgrades from a songwriting standpoint over the last two with Portnoy. 

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #119 on: January 05, 2021, 03:35:32 PM »
I don't think any of the Mangini albums touch the best ones they did with Portnoy (I&W, Awake, Scenes, 6DOIT), and I doubt the band will come close to that overall level of greatness on a complete album again, but I do think all are upgrades from a songwriting standpoint over the last two with Portnoy.

Yeah, it's kinda like they hit a plateau, maybe not of absolutely amazing greatness, but surely of damn solid consistency, and that's more than many other bands so "late" in their carrer can claim.

I'm so curious about the next record, they never really made the same album twice and with Mangini they surely can't play for the third time the "shorter and heavier album" card which could be a veeeeery loose term for both the self titled and d/t.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #120 on: January 05, 2021, 03:37:22 PM »
I don't think any of the Mangini albums touch the best ones they did with Portnoy (I&W, Awake, Scenes, 6DOIT), and I doubt the band will come close to that overall level of greatness on a complete album again, but I do think all are upgrades from a songwriting standpoint over the last two with Portnoy.
I agree with this wholeheartedly.
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Offline Trav86

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #121 on: January 05, 2021, 05:57:25 PM »
I think the Mangini albums all kind of stay in the same lane (The Astonishing to a lesser degree) and are of fairly consistent quality. The last four Portnoy albums were more peaks and valleys. Which makes it difficult for me to compare. The Mangini albums don’t have an “Octavarium”. But they also don’t have a “Prophets of War”.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #122 on: January 05, 2021, 06:59:26 PM »
I think the Mangini albums all kind of stay in the same lane (The Astonishing to a lesser degree) and are of fairly consistent quality. The last four Portnoy albums were more peaks and valleys. Which makes it difficult for me to compare. The Mangini albums don’t have an “Octavarium”. But they also don’t have a “Prophets of War”.

That's a good way to put it. 

Offline Trav86

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #123 on: January 05, 2021, 07:38:46 PM »
With that said, I would like to add this. Breaking All Illusions is a Top 10 DT song, for me. I’ve never made a Top 25 but if I were to, I’m sure Barstool Warrior would make it. The band seems to be very proud of Distance Over Time, and they should be! This many albums and years into their career and they’re still making excellent music and seem to be very happy about it. As a fan of over 20 years, I couldn’t be happier or more proud of these guys.
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Offline Mark Levinson Jr.

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #124 on: January 05, 2021, 07:57:23 PM »
I'm so impressed with how well this album translated to getting played live. Mangini sounds and plays the DOT stuff so nicely on Distant Memories, it has made me revisit the studio album again.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #125 on: January 06, 2021, 06:37:41 AM »
I'm also glad that apart from Illumination Theory - they've mostly dropped the compulsory 20 minute song per album.

Also - fully agree that whilst no mangini album is up there with Scenes or Octavarium or Six Degrees - none of them are down there with Systematic Chaos and Black Clouds.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #126 on: January 06, 2021, 07:25:44 AM »
The Mangini albums don’t have an “Octavarium”. But they also don’t have a “Prophets of War”.
I don't know.  For me, anyway, Illumination Theory is a worthy addition to the list of epics.  Lesser than Octavarium and A Change of Seasons, to be sure, but still awesome.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #127 on: January 06, 2021, 07:30:13 AM »
Here's my theory:  Portnoy created a certain type of creative energy that pushed the band one way and Petrucci was kind of the opposing creative force.  When you put them together it's like mixing valium and alcohol.  The effects and relative efficacy of both are enhanced by the presence of the other.  But when you take one side of those opposing forces out of the equation and the songwriting settles into a different rhythm, well, you end up with a little bit less consistency and some of that "magic" or "secret sauce" that made Dream Theater special was diminished by Portnoy's departure. 


It's just a theory but I base it on my own songwriting experience.  My songs were...good.  Nothing really special, until I hooked up with my writing partner.  The push/pull of him and I working together created something that me working alone or him working alone would never have achieved.  It's why I like to allow the musicians I collaborate with to actually modify my songs if they have a good idea.  In fact, I encourage it.  Anyway, I think the reduction in that creative tension has changed the contours of Dream Theater's songs in ways that haven't always resulted in the best output.

I'm a BIG fan of this theory; I call it "the clubhouse" (a sports term about the attitude of the team back in the locker room).  There are countless examples of this; Jagger/Richards.   Page/Plant (he's one of the greatest guitar players of all time, but seems to be a lost foundling without Robert Plant). There's no denying that the Lennon/McCartney numbers benefited from having both those men in the studio at the same time.  I've long said that even though Iommi holds the name and is on all the records, there is no Black Sabbath without Geezer Butler.   

The idea that bands all have to be best friends and love-y dove-y is crap; but it's the rare talent (Bruce, Dylan) that can survive in a vacuum.   Even the great Eddie Van Halen needed a partner in crime; some of the solo stuff, while amazing guitar playing, is... slight without a Dave, or Sam, or (later) Wolfgang to sort of whip it into shape.

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #128 on: January 06, 2021, 07:44:41 AM »
Still the best out of the last 3 albums.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #129 on: January 06, 2021, 08:13:24 AM »
Here's my theory:  Portnoy created a certain type of creative energy that pushed the band one way and Petrucci was kind of the opposing creative force.  When you put them together it's like mixing valium and alcohol.  The effects and relative efficacy of both are enhanced by the presence of the other.  But when you take one side of those opposing forces out of the equation and the songwriting settles into a different rhythm, well, you end up with a little bit less consistency and some of that "magic" or "secret sauce" that made Dream Theater special was diminished by Portnoy's departure. 


It's just a theory but I base it on my own songwriting experience.  My songs were...good.  Nothing really special, until I hooked up with my writing partner.  The push/pull of him and I working together created something that me working alone or him working alone would never have achieved.  It's why I like to allow the musicians I collaborate with to actually modify my songs if they have a good idea.  In fact, I encourage it.  Anyway, I think the reduction in that creative tension has changed the contours of Dream Theater's songs in ways that haven't always resulted in the best output.

I'm a BIG fan of this theory; I call it "the clubhouse" (a sports term about the attitude of the team back in the locker room).  There are countless examples of this; Jagger/Richards.   Page/Plant (he's one of the greatest guitar players of all time, but seems to be a lost foundling without Robert Plant). There's no denying that the Lennon/McCartney numbers benefited from having both those men in the studio at the same time.  I've long said that even though Iommi holds the name and is on all the records, there is no Black Sabbath without Geezer Butler.   

The idea that bands all have to be best friends and love-y dove-y is crap; but it's the rare talent (Bruce, Dylan) that can survive in a vacuum.   Even the great Eddie Van Halen needed a partner in crime; some of the solo stuff, while amazing guitar playing, is... slight without a Dave, or Sam, or (later) Wolfgang to sort of whip it into shape.

That's called Chemistry. Some people have great chemistry and others do not, and sometimes that chemistry can wane and that spark is lost.

But, in all, if you don't get along together at all. Your band will never be a touring band, and a lot of situations can happen off stage and behind the scenes. Remember, these guys have to live with each other, in a tight confined space, for how many months.

Wouldn't that be tensions? Tensions between people that can arise.

But yeah, then there are those bands that are record label made and tour and then you end up with the next album from that project has  different lineup. Because one member said, fuck this shit...
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Offline Trav86

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #130 on: January 06, 2021, 08:23:30 AM »
The Mangini albums don’t have an “Octavarium”. But they also don’t have a “Prophets of War”.
I don't know.  For me, anyway, Illumination Theory is a worthy addition to the list of epics.  Lesser than Octavarium and A Change of Seasons, to be sure, but still awesome.

I agree with this.
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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #131 on: January 06, 2021, 11:27:37 AM »
The Mangini albums don’t have an “Octavarium”. But they also don’t have a “Prophets of War”.
I don't know.  For me, anyway, Illumination Theory is a worthy addition to the list of epics.  Lesser than Octavarium and A Change of Seasons, to be sure, but still awesome.

I agree with this.


Well, I like all those mentioned, even Prophets of War. And I am not at all tired of the long 20 minute songs.  I want another. I don't really make playlists, but made one. DT epics. It's my favorite.  What I think is funny is the different commnetary on long songs/shorter songs.  "Don't care for the wankery" "I love the conciseness of d/t". But then Change of Seasons and Octavarium are continually in the top songs with plenty of wankery.  People love Erotomania. That's one long wank. (not a long song, but just wank). Or In the Name of God, kind of repetitive at the end.  But loved.  Dream Theater is wankery.  If all their music were liked d/t it wouldn't be Dream Theater.  When I first started listening 5 years ago (wow that went quick), it took me a bit to like the "wankery". Maybe I don't even love it, but I love the songs that include it.. I don't know, maybe its that the music continues telling the story, or it's creating the anticipation for the next cool section. 

So, with d/t.  I listen to it less, but whenever it comes on I love it. I do wish PBD were longer. The melodies on BW, FitL and AWE are so emotional. S2N has some great guitar grooves and crescendos. Frankly, they could have made them all longer, and I would be happy.  :biggrin:

Offline Stadler

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #132 on: January 06, 2021, 12:53:33 PM »
Here's my theory:  Portnoy created a certain type of creative energy that pushed the band one way and Petrucci was kind of the opposing creative force.  When you put them together it's like mixing valium and alcohol.  The effects and relative efficacy of both are enhanced by the presence of the other.  But when you take one side of those opposing forces out of the equation and the songwriting settles into a different rhythm, well, you end up with a little bit less consistency and some of that "magic" or "secret sauce" that made Dream Theater special was diminished by Portnoy's departure. 


It's just a theory but I base it on my own songwriting experience.  My songs were...good.  Nothing really special, until I hooked up with my writing partner.  The push/pull of him and I working together created something that me working alone or him working alone would never have achieved.  It's why I like to allow the musicians I collaborate with to actually modify my songs if they have a good idea.  In fact, I encourage it.  Anyway, I think the reduction in that creative tension has changed the contours of Dream Theater's songs in ways that haven't always resulted in the best output.

I'm a BIG fan of this theory; I call it "the clubhouse" (a sports term about the attitude of the team back in the locker room).  There are countless examples of this; Jagger/Richards.   Page/Plant (he's one of the greatest guitar players of all time, but seems to be a lost foundling without Robert Plant). There's no denying that the Lennon/McCartney numbers benefited from having both those men in the studio at the same time.  I've long said that even though Iommi holds the name and is on all the records, there is no Black Sabbath without Geezer Butler.   

The idea that bands all have to be best friends and love-y dove-y is crap; but it's the rare talent (Bruce, Dylan) that can survive in a vacuum.   Even the great Eddie Van Halen needed a partner in crime; some of the solo stuff, while amazing guitar playing, is... slight without a Dave, or Sam, or (later) Wolfgang to sort of whip it into shape.

That's called Chemistry. Some people have great chemistry and others do not, and sometimes that chemistry can wane and that spark is lost.

But, in all, if you don't get along together at all. Your band will never be a touring band, and a lot of situations can happen off stage and behind the scenes. Remember, these guys have to live with each other, in a tight confined space, for how many months.

Wouldn't that be tensions? Tensions between people that can arise.

But yeah, then there are those bands that are record label made and tour and then you end up with the next album from that project has  different lineup. Because one member said, fuck this shit...

That's patently false, though, Ben.    Jagger and Richards.   Motley Crue.   Aerosmith (someone here I think it was, mentioned that he had inside information that Perry and Tyler rarely speak to each other outside of music).   Anderson and Howe.   Gillan and Blackmore.   I think it's a myth that bands have to be like Rush, best buds and brothers in arms. 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #133 on: January 06, 2021, 03:54:16 PM »
True.  I can't recall specifics, but didn't Queen fight like cats and dogs for much of their career? And they had a helluva 20-year run with the four before Freddie's untimely passing.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #134 on: January 06, 2021, 04:09:35 PM »
Still the best out of the last 3 albums.

Yup.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #135 on: January 06, 2021, 04:21:58 PM »
The Mangini albums don’t have an “Octavarium”. But they also don’t have a “Prophets of War”.
I don't know.  For me, anyway, Illumination Theory is a worthy addition to the list of epics.  Lesser than Octavarium and A Change of Seasons, to be sure, but still awesome.

I agree with this.


Well, I like all those mentioned, even Prophets of War. And I am not at all tired of the long 20 minute songs.  I want another. I don't really make playlists, but made one. DT epics. It's my favorite.  What I think is funny is the different commnetary on long songs/shorter songs.  "Don't care for the wankery" "I love the conciseness of d/t". But then Change of Seasons and Octavarium are continually in the top songs with plenty of wankery.  People love Erotomania. That's one long wank. (not a long song, but just wank). Or In the Name of God, kind of repetitive at the end.  But loved.  Dream Theater is wankery.  If all their music were liked d/t it wouldn't be Dream Theater.  When I first started listening 5 years ago (wow that went quick), it took me a bit to like the "wankery". Maybe I don't even love it, but I love the songs that include it.. I don't know, maybe its that the music continues telling the story, or it's creating the anticipation for the next cool section. 

So, with d/t.  I listen to it less, but whenever it comes on I love it. I do wish PBD were longer. The melodies on BW, FitL and AWE are so emotional. S2N has some great guitar grooves and crescendos. Frankly, they could have made them all longer, and I would be happy.  :biggrin:

When the music continues to tell the story, that is not wankery. Wankery is when the music goes on and on but in the context of the narrative of the song, it does not really add much to the "story." For me, Dream Theater fell into a wank phase from Train of Thought to Black Clouds. Instrumental virtuosity became a crutch, an easy way to write music but when you go beyond the facade of technical virtuosity, you don't really find many good songs under a lot of the wank. The wank is impressive to watch live (like TDEN, ANTR) but listening to many of the music from that era closely wIth good earphones just before bedtime, it becomes apparent that there is not much of a song in there.

I always see DT12 as the band deciding to let go of the crutch of wank and try to focus first on the essence of the song they were writing. Even the long instrumental sections of Illumination Theory are bound to the song's narrative.

D/T is a further refinement of this approach. The structure is tight, the instrumental virtuosity does not stray from the core of a song.

I think DT will still write longer songs in the future but I expect it won't be bloat or wankery.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 06:33:33 PM by erwinrafael »

Offline Volante99

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #136 on: January 06, 2021, 06:27:05 PM »
I’m not sure about creative tension but Portnoy and Petrucci have undeniable chemistry. It’s like they finish each other’s musical “sentences”. Hearing them back together on JP’s solo album just felt right. They were born to play together.

There is definitely an energy missing from the Mangini albums, BUT, I don’t really put that blame on Mangini. I remember listening to the latest Dream Theater album for the first time, excited to take a musical journey with interesting twists and turns, you never really knew what was going to happen next in a DT song. While I do agree a lot of “wankery” and musical self indulgence came with that, it was at least exciting. I haven’t really felt that way about a DT album since ADToE.

DT12 didn’t have “it”, D/T didn’t have it either. Astonishing for all the hate it gets had about 20-30 minutes of interesting, what I would call “old school DT” music buried deep in 2 hours of...not so good stuff.



Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #137 on: January 06, 2021, 06:42:17 PM »
I don't know. At Wit's End and Barstool Warrior are so perfrctly composed as musical journeys that I can't see how anybody can say there is a lack of musical journeys in this album.

Can somebody say honestly that when they heard the beginning of AWE the first time, they predicted that the song would end with that soaring dramatic guitar solo?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 08:30:11 PM by erwinrafael »

Offline Trav86

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #138 on: January 06, 2021, 06:55:02 PM »
I’m not sure about creative tension but Portnoy and Petrucci have undeniable chemistry. It’s like they finish each other’s musical “sentences”. Hearing them back together on JP’s solo album just felt right. They were born to play together.

There is definitely an energy missing from the Mangini albums, BUT, I don’t really put that blame on Mangini. I remember listening to the latest Dream Theater album for the first time, excited to take a musical journey with interesting twists and turns, you never really knew what was going to happen next in a DT song. While I do agree a lot of “wankery” and musical self indulgence came with that, it was at least exciting. I haven’t really felt that way about a DT album since ADToE.

DT12 didn’t have “it”, D/T didn’t have it either. Astonishing for all the hate it gets had about 20-30 minutes of interesting, what I would call “old school DT” music buried deep in 2 hours of...not so good stuff.

This.  There is a magic to the classic DT albums that just isn't there anymore.  ADTOE is close. Its like they were attempting to recapture it.
Can't we find the minds
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #139 on: January 06, 2021, 07:26:15 PM »
Lots of interesting discussion points here.

I really love it when DT songs take you on a musical journey, something like TCOT, TGD, LTL, etc. Most of the recent songs don't quite have *that* factor in them, and I do miss that. Their songwriting is so tight and song-oriented now that I sometimes leave feeling like I needed MORE. However, there's also the self indulgent wank fest tangent they liked to artificially insert into their songs for a while (TMOLS, for example, while I really like it, is one of the biggest examples of this), and it didn't always work well.
To me, it feels like their post-ADTOE output became so focused in NOT doing long songs (Illumination Theory being the exception) that they sacrificed not only the unnecessary bloat, but some of that classic DT feel with it.

Having said that, I completely love the MM era albums and think they're definitely much more consistent in quality than their previous (mid to late 2000s) albums, and I'm hoping DT15 marks the return of their longer songs format, but working for the song, like ADTOE.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."