Author Topic: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...  (Read 11352 times)

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Offline TAC

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #70 on: December 31, 2020, 09:04:49 PM »
Melody is what separates them from generic prog metal. Their songwriting is strong.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #71 on: January 01, 2021, 04:47:06 AM »
Yeah their songs sound like they were written on acoustic guitars and piano first and then all the widdly was added later as icing.

Whereas some tech bands sound like they came up with the widdy widdly to start with then put a generic  ' I - bVII - bVI - V '

progression over it.

I love Trivium a lot - but so many of their songs use the same progression it's almost comical.


Offline BelichickFan

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #72 on: January 01, 2021, 08:44:57 AM »
I still love it, it's a really good CD.  The problem for me is it seems like they went in saying "nothing over 10 minutes". Then they had a track (PBD) begging to be an epic and they cut it off early. B+ album for me but there was an A staring them in the face and they declined.

My favorite, though, since Octavarium. Behind I&W and Awake. Somewhere in the next group with Scenes, 6 Degrees, Octavarium and Astonishing. Probably would have been #3 if they had extended PBD.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #73 on: January 01, 2021, 09:50:09 AM »
Scenes Until, and including Octavarium had the 'classic' DT feel for me.

Something was missing on SC and BC&SL.

ADTOE had it a little bit but it wasn't until The Gift of Music that I felt like they'd got it back. Hearing that song was like listening to About To Crash. They're quite similar.

Distance Over Time to me sounds and feels like it slots into that SFAM - OCT run. Maybe the album that sonically could have come out between Octavarium and Systematic Chaos.

:)

Offline Stadler

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #74 on: January 01, 2021, 11:13:42 AM »
I think I understand where Barry is coming from, but I think it's all relative.  There are few earworms like I get from Jellyfish, but they're not Jellyfish.  I listen to some other prog rock and "melodies" are like water in the desert, or oxygen on the moon:  nonexistant.   

I think there's a good mix with DT, or at least there was.   I love how a melody comes out of nowhere - "Without love, without truth... there can be no turning back!" or the "All that we learn..." part of "Beyond This Life".   For me, and I know this is my opinion only, James was always a key part of why I loved DT so much and what set them apart, and a good portion of THAT was the distinctive melody lines of the vocal, at least relative to other prog metal outfits.

For ME, the vocals are a big part of why SC and BC&SL don't hold par with what came before; it became more... not generic, nothing about DT is generic, but more "of a time".  Images and Words came out in the thick of grunge, a movement that was so strong that (three or four years later) led even bands like Def Leppard (Slang) and Kiss (Carnival) put out "grunge" records.   Yet, there's not a note of grunge on I&W.   It was moving in the opposite direction.   I'm a fan of Mike, but I think around that time of SC and BC&SL, he was starting to look at other bands, and guys like Lars and Charlie Benante, and wanted DT to be "his" version of that.  It's hard to put into words, and I have zero proof, but it's a feeling I have.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2021, 12:11:25 PM by Stadler »

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #75 on: January 01, 2021, 01:29:39 PM »
I think I understand where Barry is coming from, but I think it's all relative.  There are few earworms like I get from Jellyfish, but they're not Jellyfish.  I listen to some other prog rock and "melodies" are like water in the desert, or oxygen on the moon:  nonexistant.   

I think there's a good mix with DT, or at least there was.   I love how a melody comes out of nowhere - "Without love, without truth... there can be no turning back!" or the "All that we learn..." part of "Beyond This Life".   For me, and I know this is my opinion only, James was always a key part of why I loved DT so much and what set them apart, and a good portion of THAT was the distinctive melody lines of the vocal, at least relative to other prog metal outfits.

For ME, the vocals are a big part of why SC and BC&SL don't hold par with what came before; it became more... not generic, nothing about DT is generic, but more "of a time".  Images and Words came out in the thick of grunge, a movement that was so strong that (three or four years later) led even bands like Def Leppard (Slang) and Kiss (Carnival) put out "grunge" records.   Yet, there's not a note of grunge on I&W.   It was moving in the opposite direction.   I'm a fan of Mike, but I think around that time of SC and BC&SL, he was starting to look at other bands, and guys like Lars and Charlie Benante, and wanted DT to be "his" version of that.  It's hard to put into words, and I have zero proof, but it's a feeling I have.

That's when they started becoming "METAL"  :metal 

And MP was more interested in the "METAL" at the time, including wanting more "METAL" in the vocals, which the vocalists for the band obviously couldn't do, in the way MP wanted them done. So, we got the "EVERYONE SURVIVES...ROOOOOOOAOAOAROAROARA" because MP was also the producer and wanted that in the song. (I attribute this to MP: The Producer, and not MP as a person or MP: The Drummer. Although, they do intertwine with how MP: The Producer, produces.)

It's also when MP went full on Harmony, Queen mode. With Prophets of War, being overly harmonized. Being how he is with vocals, I still don't get why he did not do those vocals live.


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Offline NoFred

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #76 on: January 01, 2021, 07:42:28 PM »
I&W was a revelation (but I was 14 so what did I know).

I love some songs from SC and BCSL but those two to me are both very ďhey weíre on RR records now.Ē And I like the muse song :)

D/T to me is dream theater radio, all songs sound a bit different, are well done but are missing one thing mostly due to length (awe too long and PBD too short) but somehow if someone wanted a DT mixtape from me Iíd give them this to start... low calorie DT.

I love it, best since adtoe but I look forward to dt15 which I realistically hope is blend of adtoe and d/t.


Offline TAC

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #77 on: January 01, 2021, 07:55:02 PM »

For ME, the vocals are a big part of why SC and BC&SL don't hold par with what came before; it became more... not generic, nothing about DT is generic, but more "of a time".

I hope you don't hold that against James, because in my opinion, he did exactly what was asked of him. I thought he was flawless on those albums.

I actually listened to The Count Of Tuscany last night, and the emotion in his voice is palpable.


He was way underused for a number of albums. The thing is, he's their secret weapon. He has a unique voice that can carry drama with it.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #78 on: January 01, 2021, 08:28:40 PM »
He has a unique voice that can carry drama with it.

I thought that was Mike Portnoy.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #79 on: January 01, 2021, 09:30:23 PM »
For ME, the vocals are a big part of why SC and BC&SL don't hold par with what came before; it became more... not generic, nothing about DT is generic, but more "of a time".
I hope you don't hold that against James, because in my opinion, he did exactly what was asked of him. I thought he was flawless on those albums.

No doubt. Any time I have complaints about James' studio work (which is rare) I tend to put them on the writer(s) and what they were asking of James.

SC is a strange case because there are some of DT's worst written vocal parts, and then some amazing performances, like ItPoE pt 2, which could have been laughably bad if not for James killing it.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #80 on: January 02, 2021, 01:57:49 AM »
That's when they started becoming "METAL"  :metal 

And MP was more interested in the "METAL" at the time, including wanting more "METAL" in the vocals, which the vocalists for the band obviously couldn't do, in the way MP wanted them done. So, we got the "EVERYONE SURVIVES...ROOOOOOOAOAOAROAROARA" because MP was also the producer and wanted that in the song. (I attribute this to MP: The Producer, and not MP as a person or MP: The Drummer. Although, they do intertwine with how MP: The Producer, produces.)

The ironic thing about that period is that as MP.pushed more to the metal direction, the more the music did not fit his drumming style. His strength was in the prog side, not the metal. Which is why whenever we hear a live release of a song from that period with Mangini, it almost always sounded better. TSF, ANTR, ITPOE Pt. 1, TDEN

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #81 on: January 02, 2021, 03:09:52 AM »
Dream Theater have never really been all that great at writing memorable/hooky choruses.   Their music is a vehicle for showing off technical prowess, for the most part.

I don't know. The choruses in "Barstool Warrior" and "Behind The Veil" are really good to me.


Well, yeah, I didn't say their music is completely devoid of melody.  Sure they have some songs with great choruses, but they tend to be few and far between and mostly confined to the more ballad-ish material.  The bulk of their music is not hooks, though, it's riffs, especially modern Dream Theater


Offline hunnus2000

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #82 on: January 02, 2021, 08:16:06 AM »
I agree with the comments about MP the producer vs. MP the musician. Depending on the album, I always felt that JLB was guided on how to sing certain songs. MP once commented on how a song has to have balls which piqued my interest. After he left, I felt that JLB and even JR were able to express themselves in a way that they hadn't been able to previously.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #83 on: January 02, 2021, 09:14:53 AM »
That's when they started becoming "METAL"  :metal 

And MP was more interested in the "METAL" at the time, including wanting more "METAL" in the vocals, which the vocalists for the band obviously couldn't do, in the way MP wanted them done. So, we got the "EVERYONE SURVIVES...ROOOOOOOAOAOAROAROARA" because MP was also the producer and wanted that in the song. (I attribute this to MP: The Producer, and not MP as a person or MP: The Drummer. Although, they do intertwine with how MP: The Producer, produces.)

The ironic thing about that period is that as MP.pushed more to the metal direction, the more the music did not fit his drumming style. His strength was in the prog side, not the metal. Which is why whenever we hear a live release of a song from that period with Mangini, it almost always sounded better. TSF, ANTR, ITPOE Pt. 1, TDEN

I attribute it to MP doing some amazing creative things in the Drumming on those albums. But never really replicating the parts live. Mangini does this and more.

What I noticed on ANTR and ITPOEpt.1 and also on Beyond This Life, is the kick drum. Mangini does kick drum stuff that really adds that extra Metal element to these songs. Plus, in ANTR, he actually can do the blast beat.

That is where it showed that MP never practiced. And should've practiced to get that part down live, because it's just not great live.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #84 on: January 02, 2021, 09:26:43 AM »


For ME, the vocals are a big part of why SC and BC&SL don't hold par with what came before; it became more... not generic, nothing about DT is generic, but more "of a time".  Images and Words came out in the thick of grunge, a movement that was so strong that (three or four years later) led even bands like Def Leppard (Slang) and Kiss (Carnival) put out "grunge" records.   Yet, there's not a note of grunge on I&W.   It was moving in the opposite direction.   I'm a fan of Mike, but I think around that time of SC and BC&SL, he was starting to look at other bands, and guys like Lars and Charlie Benante, and wanted DT to be "his" version of that.  It's hard to put into words, and I have zero proof, but it's a feeling I have.

Agreed. And I like both of those albums, but they pale in comparison to pretty much everything prior to them, and quite honestly, I think most of the Mangini albums exceed them as well (ADTOE is one I might put lower than BC&SL now, but that is largely because of how aggravating the muddy production is; the songwriting was largely excellent).  I have no problem with them trying different things, and in fact I applaud it as that is how you grow and expand your sound, but it just felt like some of the vocal melodies on those two albums (SC and BC&SL) did not play to JLB's greatest strengths.  Heck, despite it being a flawed album, his performance on The Astonishing is probably why I love that album so much; most of those songs played to his greatest strengths as a vocalist, especially as he ages.

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #85 on: January 02, 2021, 11:21:43 AM »


For ME, the vocals are a big part of why SC and BC&SL don't hold par with what came before; it became more... not generic, nothing about DT is generic, but more "of a time". 

Dude, this is messed up. This is like the 8th time in a row I've agreed with you. With that said, I think it works great on SC and not so much on BC. I've always dug the metal side of DT more than the prog side. It actually took me a while to get into I&W because of how much more proggy than heavy it was.

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #86 on: January 02, 2021, 11:50:56 AM »


For ME, the vocals are a big part of why SC and BC&SL don't hold par with what came before; it became more... not generic, nothing about DT is generic, but more "of a time".  Images and Words came out in the thick of grunge, a movement that was so strong that (three or four years later) led even bands like Def Leppard (Slang) and Kiss (Carnival) put out "grunge" records.   Yet, there's not a note of grunge on I&W.   It was moving in the opposite direction.   I'm a fan of Mike, but I think around that time of SC and BC&SL, he was starting to look at other bands, and guys like Lars and Charlie Benante, and wanted DT to be "his" version of that.  It's hard to put into words, and I have zero proof, but it's a feeling I have.

 Heck, despite it being a flawed album, his performance on The Astonishing is probably why I love that album so much; most of those songs played to his greatest strengths as a vocalist, especially as he ages.
For me personally,  I think TA is the high point of JLB's entire catalog. He knocked it out of the park on that whole album, and really brought it when they played it live.  Also, there's nothing flawed about TA imo.  :tup
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Offline hunnus2000

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #87 on: January 02, 2021, 01:22:28 PM »

For me personally,  I think TA is the high point of JLB's entire catalog. He knocked it out of the park on that whole album, and really brought it when they played it live.  Also, there's nothing flawed about TA imo.  :tup

Couldn't agree more and I would say it's the high point of DT's entire catalog! I always find it interesting how people refuse to listen to it but still criticize it.  ???

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #88 on: January 02, 2021, 08:32:37 PM »
You peeps shamelessly loving TA: Thank you. Where have you been all this time? Top 5 DT album for me, easy. Any day of the week.
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Offline geeeemo

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #89 on: January 02, 2021, 09:07:33 PM »
I love TA! Just went thru the whole thing last week, and now can't wait to listen again. I think I love it more each time. James sounds so good..beautiful in the ballads. Perfect.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #90 on: January 03, 2021, 05:15:21 AM »
I loved The Astonishing immediately.

As I said previously - The Gift of Music reminded me of " About To Crash ". Loved the production on the whole album too. And Our New World is a great song.

I splashed out slightly and bought the 4xLP vinyl boxset of the album .

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #91 on: January 03, 2021, 05:54:26 AM »
I tried listening to The Astonishing yesterday at the gym.  As usual, I made it about 1/2 way through disc 1 and had to turn it off.  I find it rather...well...astonishing  :loser:  that anyone who has been a fan of the band for more than 10 years thinks this album is anything more than "OK"


I think it would have been 1000 times better had they paired it down to a single album, that's my biggest beef with it, the bloated feel of it.  I routinely skip past half the album.


That said, the production values are really quite good.  Maybe a top 3 Dream Theater album in terms of how it sounds.  I think Distance Over Time also sounds great, one of the best produced Dream Theater albums to date.

Offline DTA

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #92 on: January 03, 2021, 06:09:37 AM »
I tried listening to The Astonishing yesterday at the gym.  As usual, I made it about 1/2 way through disc 1 and had to turn it off.  I find it rather...well...astonishing  :loser:  that anyone who has been a fan of the band for more than 10 years thinks this album is anything more than "OK"


I think it would have been 1000 times better had they paired it down to a single album, that's my biggest beef with it, the bloated feel of it.  I routinely skip past half the album.


That said, the production values are really quite good.  Maybe a top 3 Dream Theater album in terms of how it sounds.  I think Distance Over Time also sounds great, one of the best produced Dream Theater albums to date.

It's easily in my top 5 favorite albums of theirs and I've been a fan for over 20 years. I don't understand how fans don't like it. And I don't see how anything on there is considered bloat when every song is fully realized and interludes are no longer than a minute or 2. Hell, every album from Six Degrees through Black Clouds has way more bloat than TA with endless repetition and overbearing song lengths.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #93 on: January 03, 2021, 07:19:10 AM »
I love DoT from the moment I heard it and I can't say I've felt that way since SC. It still remains a top 3 DT album for me and is the one that gets spun the most. I think all the songs on it are consistently good and have great songwriting.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #94 on: January 03, 2021, 08:35:43 AM »
You peeps shamelessly loving TA: Thank you. Where have you been all this time? Top 5 DT album for me, easy. Any day of the week.

Hey now, I have been here the whole time!  :biggrin: :biggrin:


For me personally,  I think TA is the high point of JLB's entire catalog. He knocked it out of the park on that whole album, and really brought it when they played it live.  Also, there's nothing flawed about TA imo.  :tup

I think it could have been a bit more concise (like many double concept albums, it comes off as a bit too long), but I still love it.  :coolio

Offline hunnus2000

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #95 on: January 03, 2021, 09:50:46 AM »
I tried listening to The Astonishing yesterday at the gym.  As usual, I made it about 1/2 way through disc 1 and had to turn it off.  I find it rather...well...astonishing  :loser:  that anyone who has been a fan of the band for more than 10 years thinks this album is anything more than "OK"


I think it would have been 1000 times better had they paired it down to a single album, that's my biggest beef with it, the bloated feel of it.  I routinely skip past half the album.


That said, the production values are really quite good.  Maybe a top 3 Dream Theater album in terms of how it sounds.  I think Distance Over Time also sounds great, one of the best produced Dream Theater albums to date.

Well I would think that TA would not be a good listen while working out.........

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #96 on: January 03, 2021, 11:00:25 AM »
Hey now, I have been here the whole time!  :biggrin: :biggrin:

I know you have, bae  :-*

I find it rather...well...astonishing  :loser:  that anyone who has been a fan of the band for more than 10 years thinks this album is anything more than "OK"

lol why
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Offline geeeemo

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #97 on: January 03, 2021, 11:05:49 AM »
I tried listening to The Astonishing yesterday at the gym.  As usual, I made it about 1/2 way through disc 1 and had to turn it off.  I find it rather...well...astonishing  :loser:  that anyone who has been a fan of the band for more than 10 years thinks this album is anything more than "OK"


I think it would have been 1000 times better had they paired it down to a single album, that's my biggest beef with it, the bloated feel of it.  I routinely skip past half the album.


That said, the production values are really quite good.  Maybe a top 3 Dream Theater album in terms of how it sounds.  I think Distance Over Time also sounds great, one of the best produced Dream Theater albums to date.

Well I would think that TA would not be a good listen while working out.........
Its great for a long bike ride. The gym needs a DT metal playlist.

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #98 on: January 03, 2021, 11:10:29 AM »
Also, it was an incredible live/theater experience. I've seen DT live probably around 9 or 10 times and the Astonishing concert has been one of my favorites. I enjoyed it so much that I bought tickets for an extra night in Mexico City after a wonderful first night (I had only the plan of going to one of the two dates). It was really different, in a good way.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #99 on: January 03, 2021, 11:39:47 AM »
Also, it was an incredible live/theater experience. I've seen DT live probably around 9 or 10 times and the Astonishing concert has been one of my favorites. I enjoyed it so much that I bought tickets for an extra night in Mexico City after a wonderful first night (I had only the plan of going to one of the two dates). It was really different, in a good way.

Same here. I saw both US legs. Which sucked for me, because the songs that got cut, are ones I really enjoy and they were amazing live. Especially, The X Aspect. That opening piano segment, and then the acoustic guitar and JLB verse, that builds into the climatic end, was an amazing 4 minutes.

I am replying with more about that song, and why I enjoy that song. I cut what I said out of this reply and made this one less, derailing.
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Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #100 on: January 04, 2021, 03:15:18 AM »
Hey now, I have been here the whole time!  :biggrin: :biggrin:

I know you have, bae  :-*

I find it rather...well...astonishing  :loser:  that anyone who has been a fan of the band for more than 10 years thinks this album is anything more than "OK"

lol why


lol because I find it about as interesting as watching grass grow  :lol

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #101 on: January 04, 2021, 08:19:59 AM »
I got that, but one thing is to say you donít like it (and thatís completely fine), but another is to say you cannot understand why someone whoís been a DT fan for over 10 years likes it. I could go on on a long-ass post developing why I love TA (I have been there before) but I see no reason to. Itís perfecty fine that you donít like TA, itís just your particular wording that got my attention lol.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #102 on: January 04, 2021, 09:32:41 AM »
I find it difficult to rank among the rest of the albums, because for me it so different, but I adore it.
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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #103 on: January 04, 2021, 11:13:40 AM »
I got that, but one thing is to say you donít like it (and thatís completely fine), but another is to say you cannot understand why someone whoís been a DT fan for over 10 years likes it. I could go on on a long-ass post developing why I love TA (I have been there before) but I see no reason to. Itís perfecty fine that you donít like TA, itís just your particular wording that got my attention lol.


I just find that the people who have been with the band the longest seem to be the ones who are least likely to think "The Astonishing" is a great album.  I think it's great that it brought some new fans into the fold and it's just my observation that more recent / younger / newer fans seem to appreciate this album more than people who have been with the band since the beginning like me. 


People tend to dislike change and the older you are the more you tend to dislike it and I think that may have at least something to do with it.

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Re: Distance Over Time - TWO Years on...
« Reply #104 on: January 04, 2021, 11:17:24 AM »
Fan since 1992.  While I wouldn't rank it at the top, I love it.
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