Author Topic: IMAGES, WORDS & BEYOND LIVE IN JAPAN 2017 Online video stream 30/01/21 7pm EST  (Read 11544 times)

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Offline Stadler

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It's interesting to me, as a general proposition, that the notion of vocal care isn't what it used to be.   I have watched a couple videos over the last couple weeks, and guys you wouldn't think - for various reasons - were putting in the effort, really do.   Mick Jagger was the one I thought of while reading through, but there are others. 

The days of rolling off the two groupies, doing a line of blow, throwing on a pair of jeans and going to the arena to sing the gig are kind of over for those that want to do this for more than a couple years at a high level.   

Offline kirksnosehair

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I really hate comparing vocalists from different bands like Dickinson and LaBrie.   They're two different guys in different bands that really the only common theme to their music is it's got distorted guitars. 


LaBrie has been having a rough time in a live setting hitting the high notes on pretty much everything for a number of years now.   Some of the fan audience videos I've listened to have been very difficult to listen to without cringing hard and often.  Not because I think he sucks or anything, but you're asking a guy who's pushing 60 to hit notes that he was straining to hit live 20 years ago it's just not going to end well very often.   


Again, I hate comparisons but I think Dickinson is better at masking his deficiencies with a combination of skipping the high parts and encouraging the audience to sing them instead (and they almost always oblige) and he also has a tendency to briefly move the microphone away from his mouth for some of those higher notes...he's gotten quite good at it in recent years and it does a good job of masking his lowered range.  LaBrie, on the other hand, will still try to hit those high notes sometimes with occasionally cringeworthy results and I just think he's not quite as good at playing it off as Dickinson is.   Dickinson has probably toured a lot more than LaBrie too, so he's had more time to hone his high-note avoidance skills.


None of this is criticism at all.  It's just life.  No vocalist is going to hold their range indefinitely, it's simply not physically possible as your body ages you will lose vocal range, it's inevitable for all vocalists.  I give them BOTH a lot of credit for what they do.  And I'm just glad they're still making music.


Online Dedalus

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And it is worth remembering an always important point and little taken into account in this type of discussion: biology.

Different people have different biological responses in similar situations. The pandemic makes this very clear to anyone who wants to see it.

It would be no different for the voice.

Offline gzarruk

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I think the only one who has gotten better with age, or at least doesn't seem to have lost range with it, is Glenn Hughes. The man can sing :eek
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Online Dedalus

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I think the only one who has gotten better with age, or at least doesn't seem to have lost range with it, is Glenn Hughes. The man can sing :eek

Taking into account the life he had, it is quite surprising that he is still alive. And still singing then, holy shit!
It's a miracle  :lol

Offline gzarruk

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I think the only one who has gotten better with age, or at least doesn't seem to have lost range with it, is Glenn Hughes. The man can sing :eek

Taking into account the life he had, it is quite surprising that he is still alive. And still singing then, holy shit!
It's a miracle  :lol

 :rollin
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Stadler

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Couple of singers who's voices have aged well:
- Mick Jagger
- Steven Tyler (though I haven't seen him in a couple years)
- Robin Zander (not perfect, but for all the touring that Cheap Trick does, it's amazing he can even talk)
- Jon Anderson (not sure he could do a 100-date tour, but I saw him right before the COVIDs, and he hit EVERY note)
- Paul McCartney


I'm giving an honorable mention to Robert Plant.  He cannot do what he did in 1971, at least not on any sustained basis, but I actually think he's a better singer now, and has a richer, fuller voice.  Plus, if "Celebration Day" is anything to go on, he's the poster boy for "Not as good as I once was, but once I'm as good as I ever was".   His voice has really turned into an instrument in the last decade or so.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 06:38:12 AM by Stadler »

Offline Chino

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I don't mind that singers' voices age. I'd rather them just embrace it rather than adjust certain parts of songs and whatnot to cope. Meatloaf is a great example. The dude's got like 10% of the vocal power he once had and has EMTs with oxygen on standby at every show, but the guy still goes out and just does his thing. He still rocks the house imo. I've seen his most recent three tours and never have I thought his vocal struggles in any way impacted my enjoyment.

Offline Stadler

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I don't mind that singers' voices age. I'd rather them just embrace it rather than adjust certain parts of songs and whatnot to cope. Meatloaf is a great example. The dude's got like 10% of the vocal power he once had and has EMTs with oxygen on standby at every show, but the guy still goes out and just does his thing. He still rocks the house imo. I've seen his most recent three tours and never have I thought his vocal struggles in any way impacted my enjoyment.

That was Paul Stanley for me, though I know most of the fanbase doesn't agree with me.

Offline JediKnight1969

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I really hate comparing vocalists from different bands like Dickinson and LaBrie.   They're two different guys in different bands that really the only common theme to their music is it's got distorted guitars. 


LaBrie has been having a rough time in a live setting hitting the high notes on pretty much everything for a number of years now.   Some of the fan audience videos I've listened to have been very difficult to listen to without cringing hard and often.  Not because I think he sucks or anything, but you're asking a guy who's pushing 60 to hit notes that he was straining to hit live 20 years ago it's just not going to end well very often.   


Again, I hate comparisons but I think Dickinson is better at masking his deficiencies with a combination of skipping the high parts and encouraging the audience to sing them instead (and they almost always oblige) and he also has a tendency to briefly move the microphone away from his mouth for some of those higher notes...he's gotten quite good at it in recent years and it does a good job of masking his lowered range.  LaBrie, on the other hand, will still try to hit those high notes sometimes with occasionally cringeworthy results and I just think he's not quite as good at playing it off as Dickinson is.   Dickinson has probably toured a lot more than LaBrie too, so he's had more time to hone his high-note avoidance skills.


None of this is criticism at all.  It's just life.  No vocalist is going to hold their range indefinitely, it's simply not physically possible as your body ages you will lose vocal range, it's inevitable for all vocalists.  I give them BOTH a lot of credit for what they do.  And I'm just glad they're still making music.

THIS.
A daily dose of eMpTyV will flush your mind right down the drain...

Offline don_waka

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Just finished watching. Great production and experience overall  :metal

Offline faizoff

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Damn I can't believe I missed it. I was going to buy and watch it a few days ago. Damn it damn it. I technically have an hour but wont be able to watch tonight.
"Oh how am I doing?...eating so much pussy, I'm shitting clits, son!" - Jonah Ryan

Offline kirksnosehair

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I don't mind that singers' voices age. I'd rather them just embrace it rather than adjust certain parts of songs and whatnot to cope. Meatloaf is a great example. The dude's got like 10% of the vocal power he once had and has EMTs with oxygen on standby at every show, but the guy still goes out and just does his thing. He still rocks the house imo. I've seen his most recent three tours and never have I thought his vocal struggles in any way impacted my enjoyment.

That was Paul Stanley for me, though I know most of the fanbase doesn't agree with me.


I saw Kiss live for the first time ever about 4 years ago.  1 row up from the floor seats at about the 10th row so close to the stage right where Gene Simmons stands for most of the show.  He was probably 40' to 60' from where we sat.  I was really impressed with how solid they sounded and the concert was amazing!  I'm really not a huge Kiss fan and honestly didn't really care for them as a kid.  They were just a few years before my time.  They were getting huge when I was like 10 ('75-ish) and still listening to my parents' music. 


They sold out the building that used to be called The Boston Garden, I think it seats 30,000 and it was packed, standing room only.  The show was fucking flawless.  Amazing stage presentation with all the flames and sparklers and explosions.  A few times I was sure that my eyebrows were going to be gone when we got home, lol. But what really impressed me the most was Paul Stanley's vocals.  He was...perfect.  No pitch issues, no missed lyrics, no missed high notes, every song was on the money.

I came away from that show a humbled man, seriously.  I never took Kiss seriously.  Until I saw them live.  It changed my entire perception of them as a group and as individuals.  I mean Gene Simmons wears over 100lbs of costume up there and they played for over 2 hours with no big breaks or intermissions either and while he was definitely sweating his gonads off and breathing heavily, he never slowed down all night.   He's 71 now so he was probably 66 or 67 when I saw them.  Incredible energy for a guy who is almost old enough to be my father.

Offline hunnus2000

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I was listening to Eddie Trunk last year (or whenever Kiss's End of the Road tour) and there was a lot of chatter about a backstage vocalist double for Paul Stanley. Not sayin there was and not sayin there wasn't but Eddie has a solid reputation and tells it like it is.

Admittedly, I am not trying to accuse Paul of anything, just telling you what I heard.

Offline Stadler

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I'm a fan-boy no doubt; I've seen them more than any other band, but as someone who knows what they're talking about (you, being a working musician) that review pleases me, because it's something I've been saying for a while.  The records are what the records are, but live you get two hours of honest effort and spectacle.  Of all the times I've seen them, they've never phoned it in (well, Gene and Paul, anyway).  I saw the show in Hartford with Def Leppard opening, and about a third of the way through, it was good not great, and Gene's flying rig didn't work.   He got about four feet off the ground and got stuck.  The roadie let him down and he went to the side of the stage and you could see he was visibly angry.  For whatever reason the band kicked it into another gear, and the last half of the show was probably the best I've seen them. It's almost as if - and I'm obviously speculating here - they were afraid people weren't getting their money's worth and stepped it up a notch.  There were ON FIRE.

Offline Peter Mc

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Couple of singers who's voices have aged well:
- Mick Jagger
- Steven Tyler (though I haven't seen him in a couple years)
- Robin Zander (not perfect, but for all the touring that Cheap Trick does, it's amazing he can even talk)
- Jon Anderson (not sure he could do a 100-date tour, but I saw him right before the COVIDs, and he hit EVERY note)
- Paul McCartney


I'm giving an honorable mention to Robert Plant.  He cannot do what he did in 1971, at least not on any sustained basis, but I actually think he's a better singer now, and has a richer, fuller voice.  Plus, if "Celebration Day" is anything to go on, he's the poster boy for "Not as good as I once was, but once I'm as good as I ever was".   His voice has really turned into an instrument in the last decade or so.

Not heard him for a few years now but Sammy Hagar still sounded great on those 2 Chickenfoot albums.

Offline Stadler

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I was listening to Eddie Trunk last year (or whenever Kiss's End of the Road tour) and there was a lot of chatter about a backstage vocalist double for Paul Stanley. Not sayin there was and not sayin there wasn't but Eddie has a solid reputation and tells it like it is.

Admittedly, I am not trying to accuse Paul of anything, just telling you what I heard.

They've had those accusations in the past; even our man Derek has weighed in on that (he was a Kiss employee for a tour in the '90's).   I take Ed with a grain of salt when it comes to Kiss.  He's an Ace (and to a lesser extent, Peter) guy in the Kiss wars, and has repeatedly, and in my view, unfairly, called out both Paul and Gene for their decision-making when it comes to Tommy and Eric.  I saw them in MSG, on the reunion tour, and they were absolutely singing.  I saw them in New Haven, third row, on the last full original tour and they were absolutely singing.  They were singing on the tour I mentioned above (it's hard to describe, but when Paul flew out to the center of the amphitheater, you could tell).  The only criticism I've ever had of them on that topic was the last tour with Peter (Ace had already left) where they paired up with Aerosmith, Peter was ABYSMAL.  He was horrible, phoning it in, and I swear to this day that there was a drummer behind the curtain playing for him. 

Offline Lethean

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I know the stream was almost 2 weeks ago now, but just chiming in to say that I really enjoyed it.  I felt really excited after seeing it and it brought back great memories of that tour.  I agree with those saying that James mostly sounded good but there were a few obvious rough parts.   I'd love for them to release the whole set someday as something I could own.

Offline RaiseTheKnife

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The poster from the streamed concert arrived yesterday.  Totally forgot about it, so it was a pleasant surprise.  Looks really nice.