Taylor Swift

[Zook]

Y'all are nuts.   Shake It Off is, hands down, one of the greatest pop songs ever.  Bad Blood has its moments, but is one I can pretty much do without.

Also, it looks like track 3 is called Anti-Hero, and Taylor said this about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2t1cvSdgDA

Her clothing is so 70s.

I can live with Shake it Off, but Bad Blood is one of the worst songs I've ever heard. If we're talking quality, SIO wouldn't make the cut, but it's not horrible.

[NoseofNicko]

I’ve never understood the hate for Bad Blood. I think it’s an enjoyable song musically. Is it the lyrics? I’ve never paid attention to them.

[KevShmev]

Well, the lyrics to Shake It Off are kinda silly at times, and she is usually at her best when writing top notch lyrics, but a fun song with silly lyrics can be quite nice, especially with it's that catchy.

At that Nashville thing a few weeks back, she explained that she groups her lyrics into three sets, with Shake It Off falling into the last category:

Quill Lyrics:
"I categorize certain songs of mine in the “Quill” style if the words and phrasings are antiquated, if I was inspired to write it after reading Charlotte Brontë or after watching a movie where everyone is wearing poet shirts and corsets. If my lyrics sound like a letter written by Emily Dickinson’s great grandmother while sewing a lace curtain, that’s me writing in the Quill genre."
Example: Ivy (from Evermore)

Fountain Pen Style:
"I’d say most of my lyrics fall into this category. Fountain pen style means a modern storyline or references, with a poetic twist. Taking a common phrase and flipping its meaning. Trying to paint a vivid picture of a situation, down to the chipped paint on the doorframe and the incense dust on the vinyl shelf. Placing yourself and whoever is listening right there in the room where it all happened. The love, the loss, everything. The songs I categorize in this style sound like confessions scribbled and sealed in an envelope, but too brutally honest to ever send."
Example: All Too Well (Red)

Glitter Gel Pen:
"It lives up to its name in every way. Frivolous, carefree, bouncy, syncopated perfectly to the beat. Glitter Gel Pen lyrics don’t care if you don’t take them seriously because they don’t take themselves seriously. Glitter Gel Pen lyrics are the drunk girl at the party who tells you that you look like an angel in the bathroom. It’s what we need every once in a while in these fraught times in which we live."
Example: Shake It Off (1989)

[Zook]

I’ve never understood the hate for Bad Blood. I think it’s an enjoyable song musically. Is it the lyrics? I’ve never paid attention to them.

It's actually the vocal melody of the chorus that really irks me. I just can't stand it. Anthony Vincent of Ten Second Songs, the guy who does the songs in 20 styles videos did a cover in the style of Disturbed that made it tolerable. It was more funny than anything because he nailed Disturbed's style perfectly.

https://youtu.be/AxBTwMYkCBI

But yeah, that chorus. I can't remember how the rest of the song goes because I make my wife skip it every time it comes on. Nails on a chalk board, man.

[MirrorMask]

Also, it looks like track 3 is called Anti-Hero, and Taylor said this about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2t1cvSdgDA

Her clothing is so 70s.

Can't be a coincidence, uh? she clearly has in mind a certain visual style for the album that possibily is gonna match the music as well.

[soupytwist]

We can all make predictions till we're blue in the face, but no one really knows anything. 

The only thing I know for sure is I'll be subjected to this album an obscene amount of times. My only hope is it's tolerable like the last two.

Tolerable? the rest of her discography is tolerable, compared to the magnificence and brilliance of Folklore and Evermore.

If you remove Shake it Off and the horrendous Bad Blood, 1989 is better than Folklore and Evermore combined. Opinions are fun.

Blank Space is the worst. 

[KevShmev]

Also, it looks like track 3 is called Anti-Hero, and Taylor said this about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2t1cvSdgDA

Her clothing is so 70s.

Can't be a coincidence, uh? she clearly has in mind a certain visual style for the album that possibily is gonna match the music as well.

Agreed.

Blank Space is the worst.

I like the satirical lyrics, but I got bored with the song pretty quickly.  I almost always skip it now.

Sadly, I suspect that song will be one of a few (Love Story and Shake It Off the others) that she probably plays every night for the duration of her touring career (with maybe each getting a tour off at some point). 

I suspect a tour announcement for 2023 is coming soon, and with it likely to center around the Midnights album, I doubt we will get much from the prior three records that she never got to tour.  I could see her keeping a couple spots open a night where she rotates songs from Folklore and Evermore, to try and play as many as possible, similar to how on the Rep tour she did a spot a night where she played a different older song by herself on the acoustic, but I don't see those albums being a featured part of the Midnights tour. 

[Zook]

We can all make predictions till we're blue in the face, but no one really knows anything. 

The only thing I know for sure is I'll be subjected to this album an obscene amount of times. My only hope is it's tolerable like the last two.

Tolerable? the rest of her discography is tolerable, compared to the magnificence and brilliance of Folklore and Evermore.

If you remove Shake it Off and the horrendous Bad Blood, 1989 is better than Folklore and Evermore combined. Opinions are fun.

Blank Space is the worst. 

It's definitely overplayed.

[MirrorMask]

I suspect a tour announcement for 2023 is coming soon, and with it likely to center around the Midnights album, I doubt we will get much from the prior three records that she never got to tour.  I could see her keeping a couple spots open a night where she rotates songs from Folklore and Evermore, to try and play as many as possible, similar to how on the Rep tour she did a spot a night where she played a different older song by herself on the acoustic, but I don't see those albums being a featured part of the Midnights tour.

Well, one can dream. If Opeth can go from black metal to progressive rock, why can't Taylor, who already jumped from country to pop, make another jump and go full folk / rock / americana? 

[nobloodyname]

Blank Space is the worst.

I like the satirical lyrics, but I got bored with the song pretty quickly.  I almost always skip it now.

Bloody hell, I love that track.

And I actually prefer Fearless, Red, 1989, Reputation and Lover to Folklore and Evermore. I've got enough music like the latter two albums in my collection although they're both perfectly fine albums. To me, they're just less interesting musically. And I'm not really a fan of the snobbery I'm seeing from some people who are now interested in Swift only because of the last two albums.

[Samsara]

I'm just posting here to say this is the first time I saw "Taylor Swift" as a thread topic here, and without seeing who started it, I said to myself, "this has GOT to be Stads." BOOM, I was right. 

[KevShmev]

And I actually prefer Fearless, Red, 1989, Reputation and Lover to Folklore and Evermore. I've got enough music like the latter two albums in my collection although they're both perfectly fine albums. To me, they're just less interesting musically. And I'm not really a fan of the snobbery I'm seeing from some people who are now interested in Swift only because of the last two albums.

Am I guilty of snobbery because I got into her thanks to Folklore and Evermore?  I'd like to see that comment unpacked a little.

I think it is important to remember that not everyone gets to the same destination at the same time or using the same path.

[nobloodyname]

Where did I say that?

I'm referring to those in the wider world trashing her earlier work on the basis that they perceive the last two albums to be acceptably cool. Which is, of course, slightly ironic given that line in We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together.

You, Kev, you've skipped the entire fucking thing and become an uberfan

[MirrorMask]

Eh, not my fault that I don't like, save the occasional song here and there, country and commercial pop music.

Just like it's not my fault that I don't like screaming vocals in metalcore, which means I totally don't care for Avenged Sevenfold's early albums and dig them only from their clean voice phase. I would give also Opeth's example, I like more prog rock than black metal with harsh vocals, but I never really liked Opeth so it's a moot point 

I'm not berating Taylor Swift, or consider her inferior, for not doing music I personally like, it's just not for me and she happened to make two albums that I can like. I didn't even bother to listen to Lady Gaga's latest album 'cause it's very commercial and disco-ish (at least that's what I gathered), it doesn't take from the enjoyment I have for many of the songs of the previous album Joanna which had more mellow stuff, nor it means that Lady Gaga should please me and go full rock. But boy I wish she did......

[KevShmev]

Yeah, I agree with MirrorMask.  I totally get why someone who is more of a rock fan might only like the last two albums.  I am always a sucker for a good pop song, but I don't really seek it out, and most country music makes me want to hurl, so when I got into some of her songs from Folklore and Evermore, I figured that would be that and that her earlier stuff would still be persona non grata to me.  My posts from early in this thread are an indication of my unexpected journey through her discography. I never expected to like so much music from her entire catalogue, yet here we are.

I will admit to being an uberfan now, but not a Swiftie, largely because I think the latter term sounds stupid. 

[Stadler]

But you two are making a distinction that I love, and that most people DON'T make.  I don't know about you both, but I don't "pick and choose" what I like or don't like. I listen, and if it grabs me, I like it, if it doesn't, I don't.   There's no RATIONAL reason for that sometimes.   I can't tell you why the Mangini-era DT doesn't grab my nut sack the way the Portnoy-era did; it's not like Mahgini is at fault or that he sucks or anything like that. It's all ME. 

I think there's this predilection to equate "what I like" with "what is good" and that's the fail.  I LOVE country music; well, some of it.  Listening to Waylon Jennings sing and play guitar is like a warm bath for me.  I can do without the nü-country, but that doesn't mean that those artists SUCK, it just means I don't connect to it.

I think the same thing with Taylor Swift; some things I like more than others (I think 1989 is this generations Thriller, frankly) but I think when people look back, her catalogue will be regarded as mostly solid from top to bottom, even if it is somewhat eclectic in how it all fits together.

[KevShmev]

But you two are making a distinction that I love, and that most people DON'T make.  I don't know about you both, but I don't "pick and choose" what I like or don't like. I listen, and if it grabs me, I like it, if it doesn't, I don't.   There's no RATIONAL reason for that sometimes.   I can't tell you why the Mangini-era DT doesn't grab my nut sack the way the Portnoy-era did; it's not like Mahgini is at fault or that he sucks or anything like that. It's all ME.

I think there's this predilection to equate "what I like" with "what is good" and that's the fail.  I LOVE country music; well, some of it.  Listening to Waylon Jennings sing and play guitar is like a warm bath for me.  I can do without the nü-country, but that doesn't mean that those artists SUCK, it just means I don't connect to it.

I think the same thing with Taylor Swift; some things I like more than others (I think 1989 is this generations Thriller, frankly) but I think when people look back, her catalogue will be regarded as mostly solid from top to bottom, even if it is somewhat eclectic in how it all fits together.

I see what you did there?

But, yeah, I am the same way.  If I listen to something and I like it, great.  If not, oh well.  Now, I, like others, am more likely to like certain types of music than other types - for example, the odds of me liking a prog rock album are 1,000,000 times more likely than me liking a hip hop album - but it doesn't always pan out that way.  Based on my overall likes, it may seem odd to some that I like Taylor Swift and am generally pretty ambivalent about Marillion outside of a handful of songs, but I can only react the way my ears tell me when it comes to music.  I always say, if I like something a lot, it will find its way into my CD player (or the 2022 equivalent), and Taylor Swift has found her way in more than any other artist since the start of 2021.  That was not part of some master plan, but my usual routine of putting on what my ears want to hear.

[MirrorMask]

That's the beauty of music in the end, that there are no rules, only what your gut feeling tells you when I listen to a song. I too have my "certainties" in music, but they're not set in stone. I don't really like growls, but I like the occasional song with growls, I can tolerate Eluveitie and Haggard for example. And I've long past grown beyond power metal, the genre that was my favorite when I started out, I don't really listen to power metal anymore except for the giants of the genre like Helloween and Blind Guardian, and yet I like Beast in Black which are cheesy as fvck.... you'd reckon that if I'd like again a new power metal band they'd have some substance, uh? no, I love the bastard child of Abba and Judas Priest with ultra cheesy songs and a cheesy attitude 

About Taylor Swift, I guess she had an easy win with me. I like that kind of storytelling, almost folkish vibe, so folklore and evermore were in my ballpark. Any artist who would have come up with those albums would have sparkled my interest. Lady Gaga's own version of folklore would have won my interest (now I wonder what a minimalistic album from her would sound like, probably stuff like Joanna - A Million Reasons, Shallow, etc....). So the point for me it's not "oh gosh, how on earth Taylor Swift did an album I like"... I like that kind of stuff, it just happened to come from someone previously known only for country and pop (and from whom I couldn't even name a single song. To this day I still haven't figured out what's her trademark song, the song everyone knows and that she's bound to play at each and every single concert.... what's Taylor's Paparazzi or Bad Romance?)

[KevShmev]

To this day I still haven't figured out what's her trademark song, the song everyone knows and that she's bound to play at each and every single concert.... what's Taylor's Paparazzi or Bad Romance?)

Probably either Love Story or Shake It Off.  Love Story seems to be the song everyone knows, as a couple friends I have mentioned by sudden Taylor fandom to in the last 22 months mentioned that song as one they knew (they are not really fans, but they know that song), and the Shake It Off video is now in the top 20 all-time most viewed on YT, so that is massive as well.  On the modern music station we have going at work pretty often, Love Story plays all the time.

Interestingly, of the two 2020 albums, the one song that gets played all the time is from Evermore, not Folklore, and that is Willow.

[soupytwist]

I only really tried 'Folklore' and later 'Evermore' because of Aaron Dessner - I'm a huge National fan, definitely a top 10 band for me - I can hear his influence over those albums.  I honestly can't get into much aside from the odd song from anything pre those albums though, and oddly enough I've actually seen Taylor live during a period when my niece needed someone to go to concerts with her (saw a lot of teen pop acts during that 2 year period  ).  I honestly barely have any memory of that concert though aside from it was at Manchester and there was a terrible opening act called Vance Joy, however she didn't stick out as being one of the worst one we saw (Little Mix or Harry Styles) or the the best (Pink!).

[Stadler]

That's the beauty of music in the end, that there are no rules, only what your gut feeling tells you when I listen to a song. I too have my "certainties" in music, but they're not set in stone. I don't really like growls, but I like the occasional song with growls, I can tolerate Eluveitie and Haggard for example. And I've long past grown beyond power metal, the genre that was my favorite when I started out, I don't really listen to power metal anymore except for the giants of the genre like Helloween and Blind Guardian, and yet I like Beast in Black which are cheesy as fvck.... you'd reckon that if I'd like again a new power metal band they'd have some substance, uh? no, I love the bastard child of Abba and Judas Priest with ultra cheesy songs and a cheesy attitude 

About Taylor Swift, I guess she had an easy win with me. I like that kind of storytelling, almost folkish vibe, so folklore and evermore were in my ballpark. Any artist who would have come up with those albums would have sparkled my interest. Lady Gaga's own version of folklore would have won my interest (now I wonder what a minimalistic album from her would sound like, probably stuff like Joanna - A Million Reasons, Shallow, etc....). So the point for me it's not "oh gosh, how on earth Taylor Swift did an album I like"... I like that kind of stuff, it just happened to come from someone previously known only for country and pop (and from whom I couldn't even name a single song. To this day I still haven't figured out what's her trademark song, the song everyone knows and that she's bound to play at each and every single concert.... what's Taylor's Paparazzi or Bad Romance?)

If Lady Gaga put out her "folklore", I'd be there in a HEARTBEAT.  I love her, I think she's so talented; I just don't connect with the general vibe of her work so far.  But her solo performance on Howard Stern of "The Edge Of Glory" almost made me drive off the road (I was on my way from Philly to Erie when I first heard it; that's how much it impacted me).

[Stadler]

I only really tried 'Folklore' and later 'Evermore' because of Aaron Dessner - I'm a huge National fan, definitely a top 10 band for me - I can hear his influence over those albums.  I honestly can't get into much aside from the odd song from anything pre those albums though, and oddly enough I've actually seen Taylor live during a period when my niece needed someone to go to concerts with her (saw a lot of teen pop acts during that 2 year period  ).  I honestly barely have any memory of that concert though aside from it was at Manchester and there was a terrible opening act called Vance Joy, however she didn't stick out as being one of the worst one we saw (Little Mix or Harry Styles) or the the best (Pink!).

I'm sorry; there's a typo in your post. Can you fix it, please? 

[Deadeye21]

I just wish Taylor would go back to her classic sound that she had on Red. I got into maybe one song from 1989 and reputation and then didn’t find anything of worth in Liver, Folklore or Evermore. I miss the Fearless days.

[soupytwist]

I only really tried 'Folklore' and later 'Evermore' because of Aaron Dessner - I'm a huge National fan, definitely a top 10 band for me - I can hear his influence over those albums.  I honestly can't get into much aside from the odd song from anything pre those albums though, and oddly enough I've actually seen Taylor live during a period when my niece needed someone to go to concerts with her (saw a lot of teen pop acts during that 2 year period  ).  I honestly barely have any memory of that concert though aside from it was at Manchester and there was a terrible opening act called Vance Joy, however she didn't stick out as being one of the worst one we saw (Little Mix or Harry Styles) or the the best (Pink!).

I'm sorry; there's a typo in your post. Can you fix it, please? 

OK your freaking me out!   It was Zayn Malik we saw, I got them mixed up - but you couldn't know that unless you are my Niece - is that you Kim? 

[Stadler]

I only really tried 'Folklore' and later 'Evermore' because of Aaron Dessner - I'm a huge National fan, definitely a top 10 band for me - I can hear his influence over those albums.  I honestly can't get into much aside from the odd song from anything pre those albums though, and oddly enough I've actually seen Taylor live during a period when my niece needed someone to go to concerts with her (saw a lot of teen pop acts during that 2 year period  ).  I honestly barely have any memory of that concert though aside from it was at Manchester and there was a terrible opening act called Vance Joy, however she didn't stick out as being one of the worst one we saw (Little Mix or Harry Styles) or the the best (Pink!).

I'm sorry; there's a typo in your post. Can you fix it, please? 

OK your freaking me out!   It was Zayn Malik we saw, I got them mixed up - but you couldn't know that unless you are my Niece - is that you Kim? 

HAHAHAHAHA, no.  I saw Harry Styles at MSG, and he was REALLY good. He's the one guy from One Direction that might actually be able to sustain a career on his own.  I'm not a fan of Zayn, either in the group or out.

[Zook]

Harry Styles' first album, not so bad. His second, boring as shit.

[DoctorAction]

If Lady Gaga put out her "folklore", I'd be there in a HEARTBEAT.  I love her, I think she's so talented; I just don't connect with the general vibe of her work so far.  But her solo performance on Howard Stern of "The Edge Of Glory" almost made me drive off the road (I was on my way from Philly to Erie when I first heard it; that's how much it impacted me).

So much this. She's incredibly talented but only seems to want to make dance floor albums, but then goes out of her way to play and sing in a stripped down way in live shows. I don't get it but so can't wait for her to write a real classic rock/pop album from the heart. It's got to happen, surely, just a case of when.

[KevShmev]

I only really tried 'Folklore' and later 'Evermore' because of Aaron Dessner - I'm a huge National fan, definitely a top 10 band for me - I can hear his influence over those albums.  I honestly can't get into much aside from the odd song from anything pre those albums though, and oddly enough I've actually seen Taylor live during a period when my niece needed someone to go to concerts with her (saw a lot of teen pop acts during that 2 year period  ).  I honestly barely have any memory of that concert though aside from it was at Manchester and there was a terrible opening act called Vance Joy, however she didn't stick out as being one of the worst one we saw (Little Mix or Harry Styles) or the the best (Pink!).

Sidebar: my younger brother is a big fan of The National, and they were in town recently, but when I suggested going, he was like, "Eh, great studio band, but they are boring live," so it was a no-go.  I have Trouble Will Find Me, which I liked; I need to circle back to that and give it more listens.

And while I know you meant no harm by it, I reject the premise that Taylor Swift is teen pop. You don't and stay this big for this long by appealing only to teenagers wanting pop music.  Hell, I am 49 now.

I just wish Taylor would go back to her classic sound that she had on Red. I got into maybe one song from 1989 and reputation and then didn’t find anything of worth in Liver, Folklore or Evermore. I miss the Fearless days.

Red is terrific for sure, but I am glad she does all of this genre hopping.  I doubt I'd be such a fan if all her album were stylistically similar.   Most of my favorite bands/artists are ones where I can binge on them for weeks while focusing on just one era or style to where I don't even touch a large percentage of their catalogue during that binge.

[MirrorMask]

Did she finish already her announcements or someone just leaked the full tracklist? Wikipedia has it.


1.   "Lavender Haze"   
2.   "Maroon"   
3.   "Anti-Hero"   
4.   "Snow on the Beach" (featuring Lana Del Rey)   
5.   "You're on Your Own, Kid"   
6.   "Midnight Rain"   
7.   "Question...?"   
8.   "Vigilante Shit"   
9.   "Bejeweled"   
10.   "Labyrinth"   
11.   "Karma"   
12.   "Sweet Nothing"   
13.   "Mastermind"

[soupytwist]

I only really tried 'Folklore' and later 'Evermore' because of Aaron Dessner - I'm a huge National fan, definitely a top 10 band for me - I can hear his influence over those albums.  I honestly can't get into much aside from the odd song from anything pre those albums though, and oddly enough I've actually seen Taylor live during a period when my niece needed someone to go to concerts with her (saw a lot of teen pop acts during that 2 year period  ).  I honestly barely have any memory of that concert though aside from it was at Manchester and there was a terrible opening act called Vance Joy, however she didn't stick out as being one of the worst one we saw (Little Mix or Harry Styles) or the the best (Pink!).

Sidebar: my younger brother is a big fan of The National, and they were in town recently, but when I suggested going, he was like, "Eh, great studio band, but they are boring live," so it was a no-go.  I have Trouble Will Find Me, which I liked; I need to circle back to that and give it more listens.

And while I know you meant no harm by it, I reject the premise that Taylor Swift is teen pop. You don't and stay this big for this long by appealing only to teenagers wanting pop music.  Hell, I am 49 now.

I just wish Taylor would go back to her classic sound that she had on Red. I got into maybe one song from 1989 and reputation and then didn’t find anything of worth in Liver, Folklore or Evermore. I miss the Fearless days.

Red is terrific for sure, but I am glad she does all of this genre hopping.  I doubt I'd be such a fan if all her album were stylistically similar.   Most of my favorite bands/artists are ones where I can binge on them for weeks while focusing on just one era or style to where I don't even touch a large percentage of their catalogue during that binge.

Yeah The National are pretty bland live, I agreed on that.  Also Berninger's voice doesn't seem to be able to last more than a handful of songs!

[KevShmev]

Did she finish already her announcements or someone just leaked the full tracklist? Wikipedia has it.


1.   "Lavender Haze"   
2.   "Maroon"   
3.   "Anti-Hero"   
4.   "Snow on the Beach" (featuring Lana Del Rey)   
5.   "You're on Your Own, Kid"   
6.   "Midnight Rain"   
7.   "Question...?"   
8.   "Vigilante Shit"   
9.   "Bejeweled"   
10.   "Labyrinth"   
11.   "Karma"   
12.   "Sweet Nothing"   
13.   "Mastermind"

Yep, looks like she ran through the rest of them early this morning.

Love seeing a song with Lana Del Rey, of whom I am slowly becoming more of a fan. 

[MirrorMask]

We have to head to her own thread then 

[Zook]

I really can't stand 95% of Lana Del Rey. She sounds drunk, disinterested and bored.

[KevShmev]

I really can't stand 95% of Lana Del Rey. She sounds drunk, disinterested and bored.

Funny, as I kind of know what you mean.  She has that sound of someone trying to get through the last few songs at a gig after having had a few too many during a break, but I think her style works given the laid back and dreamy style of music she does.  Definitely not for everyone, but I like most of what I have heard thus far.

[nobloodyname]

Interesting article.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/oct/14/taylor-swift-celebrate-album-release-midnights-pop-acclaim