Taylor Swift

[KevShmev]

Re-recording sounds really good, and some of those new bonus track are quite nice, but some of the songs miss the younger Taylor's voice. 31-year old Taylor singing We Are Never Getting Back Together and 22 isn't the same as 22-year old Taylor singing them.  The different musical arrangement of All Too Well will take some getting used to, but it sounded good.  The short film earlier tonight was more than a bit melodramatic, which is not surprising   , but pretty well done. 

[nobloodyname]

I do own the original Red but I've not listened to it all that much (only because I got it after 1989 and I love 1989!) so this new version just sounds the same to me. It'll be fascinating to go back and compare tracks, though, and I'm sure the differences will be easily identifiable, especially with respect to her voice as you note.

I have to say I really enjoyed virtually every track yesterday (while playing some Forza Horizon 5, no less), including the new tracks. I think I've got three of those left to go which I may listen to when I walk our hound dog shortly.

[erwinrafael]

Now that does not sound like a long song at all. Well done, Taylor.

[Kotowboy]

Beatles.

What direction were you going with that?   That's high praise from Billy Joel, since he basically credits his entire career to seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, and a self-described high point of his career was "closing" Shea Stadium and having Sir Paul come out and play with him.  He did an entire record - The Nylon Curtain - that was essentially a Beatles homage.

Comparing tay Sway to The Beatles. I don't think anyone ever could have the same impact as they did. Especially not a pop singer who probably won't be remembered or talked about in 50 years.

[Stadler]

Beatles.

What direction were you going with that?   That's high praise from Billy Joel, since he basically credits his entire career to seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, and a self-described high point of his career was "closing" Shea Stadium and having Sir Paul come out and play with him.  He did an entire record - The Nylon Curtain - that was essentially a Beatles homage.

Comparing tay Sway to The Beatles. I don't think anyone ever could have the same impact as they did. Especially not a pop singer who probably won't be remembered or talked about in 50 years.

So, who's the pop singer that won't be remembered or talked about in 50 years?  Because it's not Taylor Swift.

[KevShmev]

I do own the original Red but I've not listened to it all that much (only because I got it after 1989 and I love 1989!) so this new version just sounds the same to me. It'll be fascinating to go back and compare tracks, though, and I'm sure the differences will be easily identifiable, especially with respect to her voice as you note.

I have to say I really enjoyed virtually every track yesterday (while playing some Forza Horizon 5, no less), including the new tracks. I think I've got three of those left to go which I may listen to when I walk our hound dog shortly.

I have been listening to Red a lot the last few months, so I was able to detect the differences in her singing right away in most of the songs.  I have listened to her enough now to know now that right around the Red era is really when she her sweet spot as a singer, as she had improved her technique, but still had that bit of youthful recklessness in her delivery that was very charming.  She sounds really good on the re-recorded TV, without a doubt, but there are little quirks and nuances in spots of the original that just cannot be recaptured.

[KevShmev]

Now that does not sound like a long song at all. Well done, Taylor.

Yeah, I always say that a longer song needs to not sound long to work really well, and the 10-minute version of All Too Well does not feel that long.  I am really surprised by how well she pulled it off.  Not that I didn't think it would be really good, but she managed to change the musical arrangement, while keeping the core melody intact, and really give the song a bit of a mini-epic feel. 

[KevShmev]

So, who's the pop singer that won't be remembered or talked about in 50 years?  Because it's not Taylor Swift.

I know I am still a newer fan and still gushing a bit while still in the honeymoon phase, but her status as a modern legend is pretty much set it stone now.  Songwriting? Check. Longevity? Check. Impact? Check. Influence? Check. Success? Check.  She can and has done it all.  All she is doing now is running up the score as far as extending her legacy, and no amount of internet bitching by haters will change that.

[XeRocks81]

https://youtu.be/tollGa3S0o8

I liked this a lot. Though calling it a short film I think is a tad overstated. It’s a video for the 10 minutes version of the song is what it is really, there’s only one scene with dialog in it. But the two actors convey the feeling and mood of the song very well.

This is her song and her pov so of course the ex boyfriend(he’s a stand in for Jake Gyllenhall) doesn’t come off so well but she didn’t make him into a monster either. Though she did get a few shots in the expanded lyrics «I’ll get older, but your lovers stay my age »

[Dream Team]

Beatles.

What direction were you going with that?   That's high praise from Billy Joel, since he basically credits his entire career to seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, and a self-described high point of his career was "closing" Shea Stadium and having Sir Paul come out and play with him.  He did an entire record - The Nylon Curtain - that was essentially a Beatles homage.

Comparing tay Sway to The Beatles. I don't think anyone ever could have the same impact as they did. Especially not a pop singer who probably won't be remembered or talked about in 50 years.

So, who's the pop singer that won't be remembered or talked about in 50 years?  Because it's not Taylor Swift.

Actually most are forgotten but for a few. Elvis, Beatles, MJ; those are remembered. TS will not be.

[KevShmev]

https://youtu.be/tollGa3S0o8

I liked this a lot. Though calling it a short film I think is a tad overstated. It’s a video for the 10 minutes version of the song is what it is really, there’s only one scene with dialog in it. But the two actors convey the feeling and mood of the song very well.

This is her song and her pov so of course the ex boyfriend(he’s a stand in for Jake Gyllenhall) doesn’t come off so well but she didn’t make him into a monster either. Though she did get a few shots in the expanded lyrics «I’ll get older, but your lovers stay my age »

I didn't think either came off well in the scene in the film where they argued about him pushing her hand away (he came off as dismissive and a dick; she came off as needy and overly emotional).  Not sure if that was intentional, but that was my impression.

I did laugh when I saw that the actor's name who played 'Him, later' was Jake Lyon.  Jake Gyllenhaal lying.   Of course, she has still never actually confirmed who the song is about, but it is more than obvious.  That poor guy is taking it on the chin from her hardcore Swifties on Twitter the last few days. I guess John Mayer knows what's in store for him once TV of Speak Now comes out.

[XeRocks81]

I do have some sympathy for the guy still getting shit for dumping that one girl 10 years ago  Like come on leave me alone already!

[Kotowboy]

I do have some sympathy for the guy still getting shit for dumping that one girl 10 years ago  Like come on leave me alone already!

Maybe Tay Sway and A Dell Laptop are just really shit at relationships ?

[KevShmev]

I do have some sympathy for the guy still getting shit for dumping that one girl 10 years ago  Like come on leave me alone already!

I know, right?  He has to be thinking, "We dated for three months and I am still hearing about this crap."    It's just bad luck for him that All Too Well took on a life of its own. 

[Kotowboy]

Also why I think it must be a PITA dating a stand up comedian.Every tiny little slip up - it goes in the act.

I saw a comedian on TV once and he literally did 5 minutes on 'my GF forgot George Harrisons name once "

Because NOBODY EVER forgets peoples names for a moment.

[Skeever]

I would say it's impossible to predict who will still be talked about in 50 years. But most of her fans will still be alive so it's hard to imagine that she won't be remembered at that time.

The Beatles of course will always be in the pantheon of people who have songs that cross generations and still mean things to young kids today who happen by them. And like Sinatra and others in that category it's easy to imagine that they will still be remembered and loved long after their first wave of fans have passed away. After all, people whose parents were too young to be there during the height of the Beatles are now getting married and having their songs played at their wedding.

I'm not really convinced that Taylor is in that category yet. She's no doubt one of the biggest and most prestigious pop stars of this generation, but she's always seemed culturally a few years behind the curve to me. Then again, if not her, who? I couldn't tell you. As to who will be and who won't be remembered in that way, only time will tell.

[MirrorMask]

"If not her, who?"

Well, I think Lady Gaga has a better chance than Taylor Swift than leaving a mark, and becoming the next Madonna. I knew even as a kid who Madonna was. Lady Gaga seems more like the perfect super diva everyone will talk about, it was impossible to not know who Lady Gaga was around the Paparazzi era, while I managed to live my life without knowing a single Taylor Swift song, not even by name, before this thread made me go "why the hell there are four pages for Taylor Swift" and check out Folklore and Evemore 

As for the song.... yup, it's quite good and does not feel long at all, well done! and some sympathy for Jake Gyllenhall, that's the downside of dating someone famous  like Sansa Stark's husband who got an unreleased song about him and now suddenly, years, after the fact, he's being described as an asshole  as I remember previously saying.... is the chance of going out with Taylor Swift (and nailing her) worth the inevitable song against you after a break up? 

[Zantera]

As a European, my perspective is Lady Gaga feels a lot bigger here than Taylor Swift in terms of popularity/hearing songs and so on. Might be different in America ofc. Either way I don't think it's necessarily a knock on anyone to say comparing them to The Beatles is silly because in most cases it is.

[KevShmev]

Bad Romance is definitely on the short list of pop stars that EVERYONE knows from the last 15 years.  It's like Uptown Funk.  If you don't know that song, you have probably been hanging out with Chuck Noland on his island.    I know she released an album a year or two ago, but I cannot remember the last song she had that was a biggie that you heard everywhere.  It feels like all of her biggies are from that first album (late 00s), while Taylor's most well known songs are more spread out over time.  Longevity, not just with releases but with acclaim and high visibility, is working largely in Taylor's favor.  As big as the new stars like Olivia Rodridgo and Billie Eilish are right now, will they be around and still dominant stars in 10 years? 5 years? Time will tell.

Generally speaking, any comparison to the Beatles does seem a bit absurd, I agree, but Billy Joel did say "that generation's Beatles," so I don't think he meant for it to be an exact comparison, especially since the music world is so vastly different now than what it was in the 60s.  The Beatles very likely would have broken the internet had it existed back then. 

[nobloodyname]

As a European, my perspective is Lady Gaga feels a lot bigger here than Taylor Swift in terms of popularity/hearing songs and so on.

Interesting. My perspective as a British European (and yes, I still consider myself as European) is the opposite. Taylor is more popular in the UK.

[XeRocks81]

by the way Taylor Swift is performing on SNL tonight, and today’s the 13th her lucky number

[KevShmev]

by the way Taylor Swift is performing on SNL tonight, and today’s the 13th her lucky number

And word is that she will perform the full 10 minute plus version of All Too Well.  How utterly progressive.

[XeRocks81]

I've never heard of a musical guest segment on SNL lasting this long but who knows

[XeRocks81]

speaking of SNL this thread always reminds me of this old bit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAhAz7JU0dg

This may be a sketch but it still rings really true and I think it applies to most of us here in one way or another 

[XeRocks81]

I've never heard of a musical guest segment on SNL lasting this long but who knows

well as it happens a lot I had no idea what I was talking about.  That was great!

[KevShmev]

Yep, really nice performance.  I was glad she did the full band performance and not just by herself.  As well as many of her songs work when it's just Taylor and her guitar or piano, that one is better with the full band.

[XeRocks81]

it's available here: https://youtu.be/nJr_8l0AEWE


I watched it live and enjoyed well enough but on rewatch today it hit me like a ton of bricks.  At first I thought it was just an interesting sales gimmick bonus track for the re-recorded album but now this version of the song may overtake the original as my preferred version.   

[KevShmev]

I can't go that far, but it's a great companion piece to the original.

She also announced that a new video will be out tomorrow for I Bet You Think About Me.  Not one of my favorites of the new From the Vault tracks (a bit too country for me, and that kind of shrilly harmonica lead is rarely a thing I like from anyone), but that is okay.  Message in a Bottle has been stuck in my head all damn day (as always, I am a sucker for a good pop song), and Nothing New is just fantastic.

[Zook]

What are the chances the 10 minute version gets radio play? I don't even listen to the radio, but it would be a big win for music. A 10 minute pop song on the radio, played in full? In the tik tok era? If anyone could break the 10 second attention span of today's youth, It's Taylor Swift.



I just wish Reputation was a bad dream. lol I can get behind her other shit, even the country stuff I don't care for, but that stuff isn't cringey like Reputation is.

[KevShmev]

I think we have discussed that before , but while I think Reputation is a bit overproduced, it does have a handful of great songs.  Delicate, Don't Blame Me and Getaway Car are all killer songs, IMO.  I hope she gets past that wanting to do full albums with the whole pop sheen.  Red is so good because it has a little bit of everything.  Look at a song like Daylight.  It's good on the Lover album with the pop sheen, but if you watch the live performance she did of it in Paris where it was just her and the piano, it is far better like that.

[XeRocks81]

Look at a song like Daylight.  It's good on the Lover album with the pop sheen, but if you watch the live performance she did of it in Paris where it was just her and the piano, it is far better like that.

For me it's Cornelia Street, can't listen to anything but the acoustic Paris version.  It's nuts that it was a release party show, in france, and you can clearly hear the fans screaming the lyrics of these (then) brand new songs.

[KevShmev]

Look at a song like Daylight.  It's good on the Lover album with the pop sheen, but if you watch the live performance she did of it in Paris where it was just her and the piano, it is far better like that.

For me it's Cornelia Street, can't listen to anything but the acoustic Paris version.  It's nuts that it was a release party show, in france, and you can clearly hear the fans screaming the lyrics of these (then) brand new songs.

Good call.  That live version is also way better.   

[Zook]

I think we have discussed that before , but while I think Reputation is a bit overproduced, it does have a handful of great songs.  Delicate, Don't Blame Me and Getaway Car are all killer songs, IMO.  I hope she gets past that wanting to do full albums with the whole pop sheen.  Red is so good because it has a little bit of everything.  Look at a song like Daylight.  It's good on the Lover album with the pop sheen, but if you watch the live performance she did of it in Paris where it was just her and the piano, it is far better like that.

I can give the bubblegum pop like "We", and 22 and Shake it Off a pass. Not stuff I'd go back to all the time, mostly just when I listen to a full album, and while I'm not one to normally skip tracks (I'll just keep them off my phone, my car doesn't have a CD player anyway) I will definitely skip Bad Blood. In fact, I wish I could transfer it to Reputation and throw it in the ocean. Anyway, back to my point, I give those songs a pass as they're inoffensive and just pop, but the songs on Reputation sound so forced and gimmicky, and trying too hard to be hip and urban. The first song sounds like Nelly wrote it. Did he write his own stuff? Even the songs you mentioned which aren't horrible, still don't sound right to me. Compared to 1989, they aren't good. No I don't think she should do 1989 part 2, I was just hoping she would build upon it, and I don't think she did.

But yes, we have discussed this before.

[KevShmev]

I think we have discussed that before , but while I think Reputation is a bit overproduced, it does have a handful of great songs.  Delicate, Don't Blame Me and Getaway Car are all killer songs, IMO.  I hope she gets past that wanting to do full albums with the whole pop sheen.  Red is so good because it has a little bit of everything.  Look at a song like Daylight.  It's good on the Lover album with the pop sheen, but if you watch the live performance she did of it in Paris where it was just her and the piano, it is far better like that.

I can give the bubblegum pop like "We", and 22 and Shake it Off a pass. Not stuff I'd go back to all the time, mostly just when I listen to a full album, and while I'm not one to normally skip tracks (I'll just keep them off my phone, my car doesn't have a CD player anyway) I will definitely skip Bad Blood. In fact, I wish I could transfer it to Reputation and throw it in the ocean. Anyway, back to my point, I give those songs a pass as they're inoffensive and just pop, but the songs on Reputation sound so forced and gimmicky, and trying too hard to be hip and urban. The first song sounds like Nelly wrote it. Did he write his own stuff? Even the songs you mentioned which aren't horrible, still don't sound right to me. Compared to 1989, they aren't good. No I don't think she should do 1989 part 2, I was just hoping she would build upon it, and I don't think she did.

But yes, we have discussed this before.

I hear ya on Bad Blood.  Never liked that one. 

I will give Reputation props for the sound and vibe.  It is very dark, like an album you'd listen to at night, as opposed to Lover, which is a sunny day record.  And then of course 1989 has that total 80s thing going on, so even though I do not listen to her pop era (1989 through Lover) as much as Speak Now, Red, Folklore or Evermore these days, I will give her props for making each pop album sound different from the others.

[XeRocks81]

a criticism of Reputation that I do agree with is that as pop it was far from cutting edge sound (I tihnk Kev even mentioned earlier in the thread ther strength isn't being at the forefront of styles anyway), on the contrary it sounded like stuff Black Eyed Peas were doing almost 10 years before, in beats and production.   Even with folklore, when it came critics said it was basically aping Lana Del Rey.  So those are legit critiques but they don't really matter to my enjoyment.