AC/DC Album Discussion and Listening Party - NP: Rock or Bust and Power Up

[TAC]

Bear in mind there is another source, the Clinton Walker book on Bon Scott, which I am most familiar with (and is mentioned in the article).  It's on my Kindle, which is not charged, so I can't look it up, but I recall Paul saying that the Hammersmith dates were closer or even the day of Bon's death, but in reality they were a week and a half or two weeks apart.   I also recall some difference in terms of time of day; Paul seems to say at sunrise, but Pete, or his friend, said something about 11:00 or so. 

I don't know; I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, so the devil is in details.   I'm not, actually, sure I know WHO to believe.  I tend to believe Paul as well.  I also think that the Alistair Kinnear person is really someone else and no one wants to pin the finger. 

Other than this article, I'm not familiar with Walker's book. The article states that Chapman was NOT interviewed for the book.
Is the book an authorized biography? Sounds like it could be.

[Stadler]

Bear in mind there is another source, the Clinton Walker book on Bon Scott, which I am most familiar with (and is mentioned in the article).  It's on my Kindle, which is not charged, so I can't look it up, but I recall Paul saying that the Hammersmith dates were closer or even the day of Bon's death, but in reality they were a week and a half or two weeks apart.   I also recall some difference in terms of time of day; Paul seems to say at sunrise, but Pete, or his friend, said something about 11:00 or so. 

I don't know; I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, so the devil is in details.   I'm not, actually, sure I know WHO to believe.  I tend to believe Paul as well.  I also think that the Alistair Kinnear person is really someone else and no one wants to pin the finger. 

Other than this article, I'm not familiar with Walker's book. The article states that Chapman was NOT interviewed for the book.
Is the book an authorized biography? Sounds like it could be.

Unauthorized.   Walker is a well-published author, but his career has not been without controversy.   

[TAC]

How so? What else has he done?

[Stadler]

How so? What else has he done?

He's written a lot about the Australian music scene, and has been published in Playboy and the Australian Rolling Stone.   He's done a lot to explore the roots of Australian music.   That I got from his book on Bon (which was rather well received, though not by the band).   But I read on Wiki that his recent book, about black women in Australian music was supposedly pulled and pulped (destroyed, or recycled).   Apparently it was riddled with errors and some of the women profiled were critical of the work. 

[jammindude]

I’ve always thought the situation surrounding Bon’s death was a bit shady, but given the circumstances, we will most likely never find out what *really* happened. In the end, “death by misadventure”...while vague...seems to be the most likely culprit no matter what the details may have been.

But I want to take a moment to point out that Back in Black IMO defies all the criticisms of AC/DC sounding exactly alike for every album. I feel pretty strongly that (maybe with the exception of You Shook Me) the entire sound of this album is DRASTICALLY different than anything else AC/DC has released before or since.

I think Stadler pointed out that this was once a fun loving, party hardy, have another round kind of band. But there’s something about the sound of this album that is much darker. There’s an almost “sinister” quality to it. To the point that, when I discovered AC/DC with this album and decided to dig into more of their stuff, I couldn’t even believe it was the same band. Everything that came before seems totally different to my ears.

[jingle.boy]

I think Stadler pointed out that this was once a fun loving, party hardy, have another round kind of band. But there’s something about the sound of this album that is much darker. There’s an almost “sinister” quality to it. To the point that, when I discovered AC/DC with this album and decided to dig into more of their stuff, I couldn’t even believe it was the same band. Everything that came before seems totally different to my ears.

I would agree with this completely.

[TAC]

I think Stadler pointed out that this was once a fun loving, party hardy, have another round kind of band. But there’s something about the sound of this album that is much darker. There’s an almost “sinister” quality to it. To the point that, when I discovered AC/DC with this album and decided to dig into more of their stuff, I couldn’t even believe it was the same band. Everything that came before seems totally different to my ears.

The production on this album is so powerful. It stands out like a sore thumb. Even FTOTR is a step back and that's also Mutt.

There's also something about the recording of Brian's vocals that somehow makes it way more accessible.


The big debate is...is it the production or the songs?

I think it's the production on LTBR that makes me lean towards that over Powerage, and I used to think what if Riff Raff had LTBR's production. Can you even imagine Riff Raff with BiB's production??

[Stadler]

I generally don't like speculation, especially with a band like AC/DC that is so close to the vest, but if I had to guess, I might suggest that it's the songs.   The parting of the ways with a singer, especially one like Bon, is almost an invitation to try new things.  And in keeping with AC/DC - you're NEVER going to get a prog album or a country album out of them - this is what "new things" sounds like.   There are some things that harken back - Let Me Put My Love Into You, Rock and Roll Ain't Noise Pollution - but I don't know that Hell's Bells or Shoot To Thrill would have come up in the same manner if Bon didn't pass.  I think those are different from what came before.  More moody, more space...

By the way, Phil Rudd is a beast on that album.   

[jammindude]

I think part of it, at least on Brian‘s voice and possibly on the guitars as well, is a very heavy reverb element. all the other AC/DC albums have had a bit more of a dry production. Not every album produced with this Echo Lake affect ended up working. (For instance...it was a terrible idea for WDADU). But for some reason, that sound on the guitars and vocals combined with the HUGE sound of the drums and the massive backing vocals ended up making the album sound much more powerful.

[jammindude]

LET THERE BE ROCK: THE MOTION PICTURE

Filmed Live December 9th 1979 at the Pavilion de Paris in Paris, France
Released to US Theaters Sep 14th 1980

1. Live Wire
2. Shot Down in Flames
3. Hell Ain't a Bad Place to Be
4. Sin City
5. Walk All Over You
6. Bad Boy Boogie
7. The Jack
8. Highway to Hell
9. Girls Got Rhythm
10. High Voltage
11. Whole Lotta Rosie
12. Rocker
13. Let There Be Rock

(CD Version of the complete show included on the Bonfire boxed set in 1997 also includes TNT between Rocker and Let There Be Rock in the setlist)

We simply could not possibly move forward in an AC/DC discussion without discussing the year following the explosion of Back in Black.   Once Back in Black made the band superstars, everyone in the record business suddenly made a huge about face regarding the band they had once dismissed out of hand.   What followed the next year would make a huge impact on the band and their approach to the business moving forward.

Obviously, they had filmed a concert for release in theaters (a practice that was occasionally dabbled during that time...Led Zeppelin being the most obvious and popular example).  This now was a great tribute to their fallen friend, and a big treat to fans who had just discovered the band and would now never get the chance to see Bon live.     Honestly, I have to say that this was not Bon's best performance, but considering it was filmed just about two months before his death, I'm happy we have this fully captured performance of a Highway to Hell tour set.   The interviews are an interesting backdrop for the concert itself, but IIRC they mostly seem like afterthoughts.   Full disclosure here.  I haven't seen the actual film in years.   I'm listening to the soundtrack as I'm writing this.   But I've been dying to get my hands on the re-release that came out several years ago.   So maybe someone can elaborate more on the interviews if there is anything to add.   

The performance itself (outside of Bon's occasional vocal struggles) is still very good, and the chemistry of Bon himself and the way he and Angus play off each other is nothing short of perfect.   If anything, it reminds me that Brian (to me) never had that fantastic "interplay" with Angus that Bon seemed to.   Maybe I just never saw the right performances. 

I hope everyone takes some time out to take a peek at this.   I'm going to take some time to watch these videos again after dinner.   So here's the link to the YT playlist of the complete movie:

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unCKH8YyW18&list=PLkxUTH8fpHncv3FID7BftoOVnbK_f3OHK

But it's worth mentioning as we move forward that Back in Black came out in May of 1980 and immediately became a huge success, followed by the release of this movie at the end of the year, then the record companies started cashing in on the success by releasing Dirty Deeds in the US for the first time in March 1981 and another company finding and releasing early recordings of Geordie featuring Brian Johnson (some of those releases featuring artwork that tried to mirror his ties to AC/DC) so by the time AC/DC were gearing up to release their hotly anticipated follow up, the market was getting very saturated.    (The US release of Dirty Deeds in particular irritated the band, who were trying to make Brian the new face of the band)

All of these things coupled with the fact that not all was warm and fuzzy in the studio meant that AC/DC were heading for some big changes moving forward.    But more on that next week.    (and yes, things have started to calm down a bit at my house, and I'm getting caught up on some things I was way behind on, so I'm going to be hitting these a bit more regularly)

Love to hear everyone's feedback and thoughts!!!

 

[TAC]

But it's worth mentioning as we move forward that Back in Black came out in May of 1980 and immediately became a huge success, followed by the release of this movie at the end of the year, then the record companies started cashing in on the success by releasing Dirty Deeds in the US for the first time in March 1981 and another company finding and releasing early recordings of Geordie featuring Brian Johnson (some of those releases featuring artwork that tried to mirror his ties to AC/DC)

I actually owned this when I was a kid:

[Stadler]

i have about 10 Geordie songs from an AC/DC "compilation" (3CD: one CD of tribute covers, one CD of Bon before AC/DC and one CD of Brian before AC/DC).  It's decent stuff; you can sort of hear Brian hone his style.  He did NOT use that higher register on all the Geordie material.

Also, trivia, but the font on the cover of their 1976 "Save The World" album is the font later used for Iron Maiden's logo. I'm not claiming they got it from there, but it IS the same.

[TAC]

There's letters on that album cover? Jeez I never noticed..

[jammindude]

Anyone else remember this concert movie? Or the soundtrack? Or am I dating myself.

FTATR will be soon...but this is the true end of the Bon era. So all thoughts are welcome.

[TAC]

Yes I do. I remember it being in the theaters, though I didn't see it there. I had the VHS back in the day, and have the DVD now.

[Stadler]

I've heard it, obvs, but it's not something I go to much.  I may give it a listen (though I'm backing up on things to listen to right now).   I love IYWB, so I usually go there, or to High Voltage/Dirty Deeds when I need some "Bon". 

Bon's got a great voice, but it's a fine line for me when he's pushing it or it's a little ragged live.  It gets shrill to me very quickly. 

[jammindude]

I remember when it first came out that one of the things I was super excited about was a live version of walk all over you. Still my favorite song from highway to hell. So this concert is worth it for that if nothing else.

[ZirconBlue]

But I want to take a moment to point out that Back in Black IMO defies all the criticisms of AC/DC sounding exactly alike for every album. I feel pretty strongly that (maybe with the exception of You Shook Me) the entire sound of this album is DRASTICALLY different than anything else AC/DC has released before or since.

I've been guilty of saying that they all sound the same, but only in reference to the post-Back in Black albums.

[jammindude]

FOR THOSE ABOUT TO ROCK (WE SALUTE YOU)


Released November 23rd 1981

Side 1:

For Those About to Rock (We Salute You)
Put the Finger on You
Let's Get it Up
Inject the Venom
Snowballed

Side 2:

Evil Walks
C.O.D.
Breaking the Rules
Night of the Long Knives
Spellbound

Well, I said I was going to stay on top of these, and this is a great place to start.   Even though I haven't heard this in awhile, I actually really love this album.   This is such an *in your face* album.   But after reading about Mutt Lange's borderline OCD methods in the studio trying to get the sound he wanted, I can see why the band would have been so frustrated.    One report states that Mutt wanted a particular drum sound that would serve as the foundation stone for the entire album's sound.   After tinkering for up to *10 DAYS* just trying to get a specific sound that he couldn't find (confusing his own engineer and completely pissing off the entire band) he finally gave up and decided to record the basic tracks at a Mobile One facility outside of Paris, and then do the vocals later.   

I found this particular excerpt from Wiki particularly enlightening:

Mark Dearnley, Lange's engineer on the Paris sessions remarked "Mutt has a picture of the way he wants to hear it in his head, and will keep on bashing away until we hit that particular note that he has, and sometimes it can take some time. They spent the first three days in Paris just on the snare drum sound. It got to the point where at the end of day two Mutt said: 'What do you think of that?’ I said: 'I haven't got a clue!’” In the end it took nearly 10 days for Lange to decide he was never going to find the sound he wanted, eventually opting to record the basic tracks in an old warehouse on the outskirts of Paris with the Mobile One studio, with vocals later recorded at Family Sound Studio and overdubs done at HIS Studios. Johnson and the Young brothers spent much of their time perched on a large sofa, waiting for Lange to finish tinkering. "Bored shitless", Angus says succinctly. Malcolm was even less impressed, pissed off at what he saw as Mutt's "fannying around".

Still, as has been discussed earlier, no matter whether you agree with Mutt's methods or not, it's hard to argue with his results.   The final product sounds AMAZING.     I can understand why some of the band felt that this album in particular crossed the line of being overproduced, but I don't think it sounds as "slick" as some of Mutt's later albums would.    I think it was a very organic and natural thing for Mutt and the band to part ways at this point.  Mutt was obviously going in the direction that he would find later on Hysteria and other glossy albums of the 80's and 90's, and that was just a road AC/DC were never going to travel down.   But much like Duke was a perfect crossover album between new and old for Genesis, I think this is that album for AC/DC.   You would never want them to sound any more glossy than this, but it is probably the best sounding record they ever did.   The albums that follow...for better or worse...would almost feel like a rebellion against this approach, but that is for later discussions. 

Every song on here sounds amazing, but unlike Back in Black, there are some definite "also rans" on this album.   Most notably Night of the Long Knives and Breaking the Rules.   But there are some deep cuts here that absolutely do not get enough attention or recognition they deserve.   Inject the Venom might be my favorite cut from the entire album, and it's a shame that it was only played a couple of times live before it was dropped.   In fact, possibly because of their frustration with the material after spending too long with it in the studio, it was one of the first tours where the new album was one of the least represented in the setlist.   I also think that Evil Walks is just an amazing song with a totally creepy riff.    C.O.D. and Put the Finger on You should have been bigger singles than they turned out to be.     Snowballed shows they can still do the blitzkrieg style fast songs, and I've always had a fond spot for the album closer Spellbound as well.   It ends the album on a very strong anthemic note. 

While the title track has been a mainstay show closer since its release, I wish they would revisit some of the other tracks from time to time.   It's not as if people aren't familiar with them.   It did go to #1 and sell 4 million copies.   Granted, that might be a disappointment after Back in Black, but they were never going to outdo BiB anyway, and I think they knew that.   In fact, I would argue that with as much as the record company tried to cash in and saturate the market (see the earlier discussion about the US release of DDDDC et al) it was pretty impressive that the album went 4x platinum on its own merits.   

Ok....that's what I got.  Looking forward to hearing any thoughts, memories, observations....  Hope you all enjoy the listen!   I'm certainly getting a stroll down memory lane. 

[Stadler]

On any given day, this is my favorite AC/DC album.  For me, not a bad song on the album and that side two could be my favorite AC/DC album sides (and yes, it contains the two songs you're not thrilled with; Night Of The Long Knives is a top three song for me on this album, and I really like Breaking The Rules. 

[TAC]

Of course you do!


I'm actually listening now and the blurb about Mutt looking for the right sound is interesting. I mean, Back In Black might be the best sounding hard rock album of all time.
Soundwise, FTATR isn't in BiB's league. What sound was Mutt after? Was he not happy with the way BiB turned out? FTATR has more in common soundwise with Highway To Hell, but honestly, you'd never know all three had the same producer.

And the songwriting as a whole, musically and lyrically, is a humongous step down from BiB.

[Stadler]

Some of it is relative; the two or three best songs on BiB smoke anything on FTATR, I just think the latter is more solid top to bottom. 

[TAC]

You have heard both albums right?

[jammindude]

“Also rans” does not equal “don’t like”.

They aiight. Just don’t seem to quite meet the quality of the others to my ears.

They are certainly NOT skip tracks.

[TAC]

Ok just ran through the album.

I absolutely remember initially being disappointed with FTATR. It was a step down from BiB and as a 13 y/0 when this came out, I knew it. But it's a good album nonetheless.

I remember really like COD straight off. The only song I really don't care for is Breaking The Rules.


After Back In Black, Spellbound is my 2nd favorite Brian Era track.

[Stadler]

1.   "Hells Bells"   5:10
2.   "Shoot to Thrill"   5:17
3.     "Night of the Long Knives"   3:25
4.   "Evil Walks"   4:23
5.   "C.O.D."   3:19
6.      "Spellbound"
7.      "Breaking the Rules"   4:23
8.      "You Shook Me All Night Long"   3:30
9.    "Given the Dog a Bone"   3:30
10.     "Inject the Venom"   3:31
11.    "Let Me Put My Love into You"   4:16
12.    "Have a Drink on Me"   3:57
13.    "Snowballed"   3:23
14.    "Back in Black"   4:14
15.    "For Those About to Rock (We Salute You)"   5:43
16.    "Put the Finger on You"   3:25
17.    "Rock and Roll Ain't Noise Pollution"
18.   "Let's Get It Up"   3:53
19.    "Shake a Leg"   4:06
20.   "What Do You Do for Money Honey"   3:33

[TAC]

Back in Black
Spellbound
Flick Of the Switch
For Those About to Rock (We Salute You)
Shoot to Thrill
Have a Drink on Me
C.O.D.
Shake a Leg
Rock and Roll Ain't Noise Pollution
You Shook Me All Night Long
Snowballed
Hells Bells
Evil Walks
Given the Dog a Bone
What Do You Do for Money Honey
Inject the Venom
Put the Finger on You
Let's Get It Up
Night of the Long Knives
Let Me Put My Love into You
Breaking the Rules

[Stadler]

I already want to change some of them. 

[jammindude]

What a great idea!!!


....but imma have to do it later. I’m tired, it’s late, and I’ve lost an hour.

[jingle.boy]

Anyone else remember this concert movie? Or the soundtrack? Or am I dating myself.

FTATR will be soon...but this is the true end of the Bon era. So all thoughts are welcome.

Just catching up on this thread.  I honestly had never heard of this until I read the new thread title.  I've bookmarked the YT playlist, and will fire it up next time I go for a bike ride downstairs.

Listening to FTATR right now - for the first time (full length) in decades.  Thoughts later.

[jingle.boy]

\I'm actually listening now and the blurb about Mutt looking for the right sound is interesting. I mean, Back In Black might be the best sounding hard rock album of all time.
Soundwise, FTATR isn't in BiB's league. What sound was Mutt after? Was he not happy with the way BiB turned out? FTATR has more in common soundwise with Highway To Hell, but honestly, you'd never know all three had the same producer.

And the songwriting as a whole, musically and lyrically, is a humongous step down from BiB.

I think this captures exactly the essence of where I'm at on this album.

Not a "bad" song on the album, but Spellbound just doesn't scratch me where I itch for AC/DC.  I will re-add it to my library (can't remember if I mentioned earlier, but in the late 80s I had my CD collection stolen, and this was one of the albums I never got around to replacing).

[jammindude]

I’m honestly not sure I can rank the songs from these two. It’s just too hard.

But an additional thought about that drum sound Mutt was going for. You have to look at it in the context of the direction he was going. The very next album he produced was Pyromania, then he did Heartbeat City for The Cars, then he completely BURIED himself in the making of Hysteria.

Think about the progression of the drum sound, and it just underlines the point that he was searching for a drum sound that AC/DC was never going to go for in a million years.

And I can see why you might say that BiB sounds better. It is definitely completely in your face while still maintaining a very raw sound. FTATR has more polish, but still manages an extremely “in your face” feel. The stop and start opening section of Inject the Venom is like a freaking bomb going off.

There are subtle differences, but I can see arguments for preferring either one.

[TAC]

I consider FTATR far less polished than BiB.

[jammindude]

I consider FTATR far less polished than BiB.

Huh. I respect that. A bit baffled. But “vive le difference” springs to mind.

[jingle.boy]

I consider FTATR far less polished than BiB.

Same.  I'm not sure how to wrap my head around any album other than BiB being their most cleanly produced album.  Then again, I'm not as big a fan, and wasn't with them in real time back then.