AC/DC Album Discussion and Listening Party - NP: Rock or Bust and Power Up

[jingle.boy]

I realize this was a Mutt Lange production, but there's something about it that saps AC/DC's energy. The record sounds too clean.

I hear you, and since I only connected with the band in the mid/late 80s, to me it seemed more like it was polishing off the rough edges of the sound around the first couple of albums.  DDDDC still holds a special charm, but I thought HTH was a polished stone, whereas the earlier albums were more jagged / raw material.

[TAC]

That's why I like Let There Be Rock, and Powerage to a slightly lesser degree. Both are neither polished nor rough.


Plus I still can't believe it was the same producer on Highway To Hell and Back In Black. Those albums are light years away from each other soundwise.

[Stadler]

Yeah, that listen was hot.  I've got a new found (or regained) appreciation for the Bon era.  I don't think there's a single dud in there at all, and re-listening got me to purchase the three I didn't have in my library already (HV, Powerage, IFYB).

Shall be interesting if I feel the same when we get to the BJ era.  When I had my CD collection stolen, I never re-purchased For Those About to Rock, Flick, or Fly - so my memory on those albums is a little fuzzy.  It's been 30 years since I listened to any of those start-to-finish.

I absolutely LOVE For Those About To Rock.  At any given time it's my favorite AC/DC album.  I like the "hits" on BiB more, but the second tier songs on FTATR more. 

[Kotowboy]

Just dropped in to say that Rock Or Bust has a killer riff. very Back In Black - but if anything - even more swagger ? Plus it's tuned to Eb so is nice and chunky sounding.

B B B B B ..... D D D A A A E E E

 

The rest of the song I can take or leave but yeah great riff.

[jammindude]

Mutt only had done mostly small time stuff before this. In looking at his career history, this was the biggest album he had done up until then. It most likely gave him the credibility and leeway to do whatever he wanted for a follow up.

But I don’t want to get ahead of ourselves just yet. In spite of the big shift in quality, and everything being quite a bit tighter and punchy-er, I do think HTH sounds a bit “dry” compared to Mutt’s later work.

Remember that this was the first in a quick series of albums that made him one of the most famous producers in rock history. In fact, you could make an entire thread about his career.

Back in Black
For Those About to Rock
High n Dry
Foreigner - 4
The Cars - Heartbeat City
Pyromania
Hysteria
Bryan Adams - Waking Up the Neighbors

All produced by Lange in an 11 year span. He then went on to marry Shania Twain and be responsible for the production on her two biggest albums.

The guy definitely has “the Midas Touch” when it comes to producing albums.

[Kotowboy]

Waking Up The Neighbours is a great album and the drums don't even sound like a drum machine.

Allegedly Mickey Curry only played cymbals on that album.

[TAC]

Waking Up The Neighbours is a great album and the drums don't even sound like a drum machine.

Allegedly Mickey Curry only played cymbals on that album.

He did the same thing with Pyromania. Rick Allen only plays cymbals.

[Stadler]

Mutt only had done mostly small time stuff before this. In looking at his career history, this was the biggest album he had done up until then. It most likely gave him the credibility and leeway to do whatever he wanted for a follow up.

But I don’t want to get ahead of ourselves just yet. In spite of the big shift in quality, and everything being quite a bit tighter and punchy-er, I do think HTH sounds a bit “dry” compared to Mutt’s later work.

Remember that this was the first in a quick series of albums that made him one of the most famous producers in rock history. In fact, you could make an entire thread about his career.

Back in Black
For Those About to Rock
High n Dry
Foreigner - 4
The Cars - Heartbeat City
Pyromania
Hysteria
Bryan Adams - Waking Up the Neighbors

All produced by Lange in an 11 year span. He then went on to marry Shania Twain and be responsible for the production on her two biggest albums.

The guy definitely has “the Midas Touch” when it comes to producing albums.

Then bang - and marry - her best friend.  I add this because it's directly relevant to the music we're discussing, and Shania Twain is ridiculously hot.   It is known. 

[jingle.boy]

yeah.. I mean with a mug like Mutt's, why do you go and cheat on Shania - who is STILL ridiculously hot.

[jammindude]

Reminds me of one of the wisest quotes I’ve ever heard.

“Always remember...no matter how pretty they are, there is someone in this world who is sick of their s**t.”

 

[Max Kuehnau]

Mutt only had done mostly small time stuff before this. In looking at his career history, this was the biggest album he had done up until then. It most likely gave him the credibility and leeway to do whatever he wanted for a follow up.

But I don’t want to get ahead of ourselves just yet. In spite of the big shift in quality, and everything being quite a bit tighter and punchy-er, I do think HTH sounds a bit “dry” compared to Mutt’s later work.

Remember that this was the first in a quick series of albums that made him one of the most famous producers in rock history. In fact, you could make an entire thread about his career.

Back in Black
For Those About to Rock
High n Dry
Foreigner - 4
The Cars - Heartbeat City
Pyromania
Hysteria
Bryan Adams - Waking Up the Neighbors

All produced by Lange in an 11 year span. He then went on to marry Shania Twain and be responsible for the production on her two biggest albums.

The guy definitely has “the Midas Touch” when it comes to producing albums.

at that particular time he did, yes. (and he did on a Maroon 5 album as well, Hands All Over I think, not sure right now), although he failed miserably and epically at it (IMHO) when he produced Drones by Muse. (given that they chose to work with him BECAUSE of his history with Def Leppard and Foreigner)

[jingle.boy]

Reminds me of one of the wisest quotes I’ve ever heard.

“Always remember...no matter how pretty they are, there is someone in this world who is sick of their s**t.”

 

Isn't that an Andrew Dice Clay joke?

[jammindude]

Reminds me of one of the wisest quotes I’ve ever heard.

“Always remember...no matter how pretty they are, there is someone in this world who is sick of their s**t.”

 

Isn't that an Andrew Dice Clay joke?

I used to be an Andrew dice Clay fan back in his heyday in the early 90s. But I did not hear this quote from him. If it’s one of his later works I wouldn’t know.

[jammindude]

Mutt only had done mostly small time stuff before this. In looking at his career history, this was the biggest album he had done up until then. It most likely gave him the credibility and leeway to do whatever he wanted for a follow up.

But I don’t want to get ahead of ourselves just yet. In spite of the big shift in quality, and everything being quite a bit tighter and punchy-er, I do think HTH sounds a bit “dry” compared to Mutt’s later work.

Remember that this was the first in a quick series of albums that made him one of the most famous producers in rock history. In fact, you could make an entire thread about his career.

Back in Black
For Those About to Rock
High n Dry
Foreigner - 4
The Cars - Heartbeat City
Pyromania
Hysteria
Bryan Adams - Waking Up the Neighbors

All produced by Lange in an 11 year span. He then went on to marry Shania Twain and be responsible for the production on her two biggest albums.

The guy definitely has “the Midas Touch” when it comes to producing albums.

at that particular time he did, yes. (and he did on a Maroon 5 album as well, Hands All Over I think, not sure right now), although he failed miserably and epically at it (IMHO) when he produced Drones by Muse. (given that they chose to work with him BECAUSE of his history with Def Leppard and Foreigner)

Funny, because I have tried to get into Muse and the only one that really grabbed me was Drones.

[Max Kuehnau]

Had he produced The 2nd Law (the one before Drones), he would have been far more suited and he would have made what is one of their best (arguably their best) albums even greater. Once you listen to Supremacy and Survival, you may see what I mean (or not).

[Kotowboy]

I have heard the stories of Mutt.

Stuff like - recording guitars for Def Leppard literally one guitar string at a time - or making Shania Twain sing as many vocal takes as there are words in the song - to get the best take of each word.

I don't know how true any of this is - but it seems rather pointless !

[Max Kuehnau]

Given that he is known to be a bit of a perfectionist (which is very good), I wouldn't be surprised at all.

[Stadler]

Pointless?  It depends on what your point is; he's got FOUR diamond certified albums by three different artists.  He's got the best selling country record of all time, and one of the best selling hard rock albums of all time.

I'd say there's a point to it.

[Kotowboy]

It's a bit of a stretch to say that level of anal painstaking perfection is WHY the albums sold so well.

People generally buy albums for the songs - not the absolute crystal clean production.

[EPICVIEW]

ALL ACDC IS AS HOT AS SHANIA..... This is also known  : )

[Stadler]

It's a bit of a stretch to say that level of anal painstaking perfection is WHY the albums sold so well.

People generally buy albums for the songs - not the absolute crystal clean production.

I can't speak for AC/DC, but I'm pretty sure that the Def Leppard guys would tell you that it's not like they are mutually exclusive.  The detail and diligence that goes into the sound also goes into the performances and the material itself.  Ric Ocasek has said something similar as well.

[Kotowboy]

I love Waking Up The Neighbours but I loved the songs. However - I was heavily into music in 1991 when it came out

and I did notice that the drums sounded massive. I didn't know until very very recently that it was a drum machine.

I don't know what Mutt used - but for 1991 - they sound pretty realistic - and not like some DOO DOO DOO Simmons awfulness.



Edit ; i've also noticed that some songs veer off A440 at time even during the same song. Maybe the tape stretched from being multi-tracked / played back so many times ?

[Max Kuehnau]

It's a bit of a stretch to say that level of anal painstaking perfection is WHY the albums sold so well.

People generally buy albums for the songs - not the absolute crystal clean production.

I can't speak for AC/DC, but I'm pretty sure that the Def Leppard guys would tell you that it's not like they are mutually exclusive.  The detail and diligence that goes into the sound also goes into the performances and the material itself.  Ric Ocasek has said something similar as well.

If I'm not mistaken, Joe Elliott and Phil Collen did actually mention that these factors aren't exclusive at all and that they wanted exactly that on Pyromania and Hysteria (but mostly on Hysteria). I love all the Mutt Def Leppard albums too btw. (all of them up until Adrenalize actually.)

[jammindude]

BACK IN BLACK

Released July 25th 1980


Side 1:
Hells Bells
Shoot to Thrill
What Do You Do for Money Honey
Given the Dog a Bone
Let Me Put My Love Into You

Side 2:
Back in Black
You Shook Me All Night Long
Have a Drink on Me
Shake a Leg
Rock 'n' Roll Ain't Noise Pollution


Sorry about the delay folks.   Life is....drama.

But here it is.   The mammoth.   As overplayed as it is, it is still hard to deny what a monster this album is.  If I totally detach myself from the fact that I've heard many of these songs seemingly a billion times, and transport myself back to that moment when it first crossed my speakers...I'm forced to admit that it is truly one of the greatest hard rock albums that has ever been released. 

What's amazing is the fast turnaround on this.   The band had already been demoing some early riffs with Bon (Ultimate Classic Rock has reported that demos exist of Bon demoing on drums with the Young brothers on riffs that would become Have a Drink on Me and Let Me Put My Love Into You)  If you look online, there are also several people close to the band that swear Bon had scribbled out some lyrics on a napkin...one of them being "She was a fast machine, she kept her motor clean, she was the best damn woman that I've ever seen."    But these are just unverifiable "what ifs" now.     All that being said, it was on the 19th of February 1980 (41 years ago yesterday) that Bon when out for a night of binge drinking, and lost consciousness.   His friend put him in the back seat of his Renault 5 to sleep it off.   The next morning, Bon was found unresponsive, and taken to the hospital where he was pronounced dead on arrival.   The coroner ruled "pulmonary aspiration of vomit" was what ultimately took his life, although the official cause of death was listed as "acute alcohol poisoning" and "death by misadventure".     The band apparently took his death very hard, and they briefly considered breaking up.   But friends and family encouraged them to keep the band going, and the search for a replacement singer immediately followed Bon's funeral.   Brian Johnson was suggested by Mutt Lange, and the band immediately liked him.   In fact, it has been reported that after hearing Brian, the rest of the applicant's were basically and begrudgingly "going through the motions".   Brian was then brought back for a 2nd audition, and was offered the spot as lead singer in March 29th 1980. 

Recording took place over the next two months at Compass Point Studios in the Bahamas, where there were several severe storms that were taking place, which both kept the band in the studio, and provided inspiration for opening lyrics of the album. "I'm rolling thunder, pouring rain.  I'm coming on like a hurricane"

Even though the band were riding high with creativity and the success of the previous album, working with the producer that had got them there even wore on the patience of the new guy, as Mutt demanded perfection in every way, and demanding so many takes to get what he was looking for.

"It was like, 'Again, Brian, again – hold on, you sang that note too long so there's no room for a breath'. He wouldn't let anything go past him. He had this thing where he didn't want people to listen to the album down the road and say there's no way someone could sing that, they've dropped that in, even the breaths had to be in the right place. And you cannot knock a man for that, but he drove me nuts. I'd be sitting there going, 'Arrggghh!'.  "  - Brian Johnson

These emotions from the entire band would come to a head on the next album, but we'll table that discussion for later. 

There is simply not a single dud on this album.  If I ever shut any of them off (I'm looking at you Hells Bells and You Shook Me All Night Long) it's just because I'm burnt out on them.   But if I get in the mood to hear the entire album, I never skip them.    But I would still say that my personal favorites are Shoot to Thrill, Have a Drink on Me, and Shake a Leg.    And I would definitely say that Shake a Leg might be the most underrated song on the entire album.  But after that, what can you say?   Everything on this album is so strong that it would be nearly impossible to even rank them.  This album is so good that even people who hated hard rock owned a copy.   I went with my sister over to one of her friends house, and as I was flipping through her record collection, it seemed to be almost entirely of disco and soft rock albums from the 70s....and a copy of Back in Black.   

This was THE first hard rock album I had ever heard.  I was 11 years old, and I don't think I had ever heard anything harder than The Beatles.   When a babysitter played Back in Black, I was immediately enamored.  I didn't know speakers could do that.     Of course, my parents heard all the bad reports about the band and immediately banned them from the house.   Which means that I immediately went out and bought every album on cassette and had them stashed in a hiding place only I knew about. 

So...where were you when this album first graced your ears? 


[switch to scene from the $20,000 Pyramid with host Dick Clark]


"The backseat of my first car...the couch in my basement...my girlfriend's bedroom.."

"PLACES I LOST MY VIRGINITY WHILE LISTENING TO BACK IN BLACK!"

((DING))

[Stadler]

I can't tell you if it's manufactured drama to assuage a sad and tragic loss, or if there is real truth behind it, but if you dig in, the 48 or 72 hours before and after Bon's death is fascinating.

For TAC:  Depending on who you talk to, Paul Chapman and Pete Way might have had a significant role in his death; not that they killed him or anything like that, but that they know more than perhaps they should about the details and circumstances.  This is very long but it covers what I'm referring to.

[jammindude]

I can't tell you if it's manufactured drama to assuage a sad and tragic loss, or if there is real truth behind it, but if you dig in, the 48 or 72 hours before and after Bon's death is fascinating.

For TAC:  Depending on who you talk to, Paul Chapman and Pete Way might have had a significant role in his death; not that they killed him or anything like that, but that they know more than perhaps they should about the details and circumstances.  This is very long but it covers what I'm referring to.

Fantastic read, Stadler. Thank you!

[jingle.boy]

I'm pretty sure that the video for Back in Black would've been my introduction to AC/DC... probably early in my indoctrination and transition into Rock as my preferred genre of music.  Much like you Ben, I was in awe at how instruments could collectively make such sounds, and the voice of Brian Johnson  .  I was a tad older (prolly 14 or 15), but still had the same impact  I watched the shit out of that video, along with a handful of others.  I'd likely recorded a segment on MuchMusic (our MTV) where they did a 30-minute feature with some interviews and 4 or 5 songs/videos.  IIRC, again... my memory is a bit hazy, but I have distinct memories of Back In Black, You Shook Me, For Those About To Rock, and Who Made Who.

I'm not sure I tire of the big-3 hits at all - sure, I've heard them a few hundred times each in my life, and they don't invoke the same kind of awe they once did, but they are still God-tier songs.  And this is one of a handful (or two) albums that every song is still or could be played on Classic Rock radio without having to call it the 'deep cuts' segment.

#21 on my list of all-time favorite albums.

[Kotowboy]

"...What's amazing is the fast turnaround on this..."

Yes ! I looked up Back In Black recently on Wiki - and was shocked that this album came out less than a year after the previous album ?

So - I'm not sure of the timeline. Did Bon die - the band decided to carry on - got a new singer in - wrote and recorded a new album - in under a year ?

[Stadler]

"...What's amazing is the fast turnaround on this..."

Yes ! I looked up Back In Black recently on Wiki - and was shocked that this album came out less than a year after the previous album ?

So - I'm not sure of the timeline. Did Bon die - the band decided to carry on - got a new singer in - wrote and recorded a new album - in under a year ?

They were already working on the new album (the controversy is how much BON worked on the new album; the band has only officially admitted him drumming - yes, I said drumming - on two demos before he died).   He died in mid February of 1980, they hired Brian at the end of March of 1980, and and recorded the album in April and May of 1980. 

Look, say what you want about the band, they've never been sentimental in that way.   Bon died, they carried on.  Brian lost his hearing, they carried on.  Malcolm - by all accounts the leader of the band - went to rehab, they carried on.  Malcolm got dementia, they carried on.  Malcolm friggin' died, they carried on. 

[Kotowboy]

Yeah it's nuts. It's like Metallica in 1986. Cliff died and they hired Jason and finished the tour the same year.

[TAC]

For TAC:  Depending on who you talk to, Paul Chapman and Pete Way might have had a significant role in his death; not that they killed him or anything like that, but that they know more than perhaps they should about the details and circumstances.  This is very long but it covers what I'm referring to.

I went back into the UFO Listening Party Thread, and I could've sworn I included that. I must've forgotten. I am aware of that article and Pete talks about it in his book.

Brent was the one that alerted me to that article a few years ago.

[Stadler]

For TAC:  Depending on who you talk to, Paul Chapman and Pete Way might have had a significant role in his death; not that they killed him or anything like that, but that they know more than perhaps they should about the details and circumstances.  This is very long but it covers what I'm referring to.

I went back into the UFO Listening Party Thread, and I could've sworn I included that. I must've forgotten. I am aware of that article and Pete talks about it in his book.

Brent was the one that alerted me to that article a few years ago.

What's your take?   Sensationalism, or something of substance?   It all seems to have the ring of innuendo, but if you read the article closely, there's a lot of things that both guys, especially Way get wrong, like the dates for the Hammersmith shows.  He's off by a week or so.  I just can't help thinking that memory is what memory is, and a day here, a couple hours there, it's sometimes a blur.

I know you like him - so do I - but as much as people love him, Pete has a way of creating drama; "I have to watch what I say here..." that kind of stuff.  Then don't say it, man.   

[TAC]

For TAC:  Depending on who you talk to, Paul Chapman and Pete Way might have had a significant role in his death; not that they killed him or anything like that, but that they know more than perhaps they should about the details and circumstances.  This is very long but it covers what I'm referring to.

I went back into the UFO Listening Party Thread, and I could've sworn I included that. I must've forgotten. I am aware of that article and Pete talks about it in his book.

Brent was the one that alerted me to that article a few years ago.

What's your take?   Sensationalism, or something of substance?   It all seems to have the ring of innuendo, but if you read the article closely, there's a lot of things that both guys, especially Way get wrong, like the dates for the Hammersmith shows.  He's off by a week or so.  I just can't help thinking that memory is what memory is, and a day here, a couple hours there, it's sometimes a blur.

I know you like him - so do I - but as much as people love him, Pete has a way of creating drama; "I have to watch what I say here..." that kind of stuff.  Then don't say it, man.

OK, let me reread it, and then reread the passage in his book, and I'll get back to you later today...

[TAC]

For TAC:  Depending on who you talk to, Paul Chapman and Pete Way might have had a significant role in his death; not that they killed him or anything like that, but that they know more than perhaps they should about the details and circumstances.  This is very long but it covers what I'm referring to.

I went back into the UFO Listening Party Thread, and I could've sworn I included that. I must've forgotten. I am aware of that article and Pete talks about it in his book.

Brent was the one that alerted me to that article a few years ago.

What's your take?   Sensationalism, or something of substance?   It all seems to have the ring of innuendo, but if you read the article closely, there's a lot of things that both guys, especially Way get wrong, like the dates for the Hammersmith shows.  He's off by a week or so.  I just can't help thinking that memory is what memory is, and a day here, a couple hours there, it's sometimes a blur.

I know you like him - so do I - but as much as people love him, Pete has a way of creating drama; "I have to watch what I say here..." that kind of stuff.  Then don't say it, man.

Ok, I'm confused as to what either of them actually got wrong. The only thing I know is wrong is that Paul mentioned Bon coming to either the 2nd or 3rd night of the Hammersmith stand, when it was actually the final (4th) night. Pete doesn't mention a timeline, and in his book, it is the final night.

This is all Geoff Barton following up for Mark Putterford. One thing that seems certain is that it Mensch seemed to orchestrate some sort of cover up.


Pete Way doesn't really say anything damning. In fact he pauses at one point to sidestep doing just that IMO.
And I believe Paul Chapman. I just do.


I will point out that Pete has discrepancy in that in the Classic Rock article, he does say that Paul Chapman phoned him in the morning, whereas in his book, he says Paul phoned him late at night. Pete's book kind of contradicts what he says to Geoff Barton.
But in Pete's book, he seems to support the "official" version.
Unless late at night for Pete might actually be morning for everyone else...

[Stadler]

Bear in mind there is another source, the Clinton Walker book on Bon Scott, which I am most familiar with (and is mentioned in the article).  It's on my Kindle, which is not charged, so I can't look it up, but I recall Paul saying that the Hammersmith dates were closer or even the day of Bon's death, but in reality they were a week and a half or two weeks apart.   I also recall some difference in terms of time of day; Paul seems to say at sunrise, but Pete, or his friend, said something about 11:00 or so. 

I don't know; I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday, so the devil is in details.   I'm not, actually, sure I know WHO to believe.  I tend to believe Paul as well.  I also think that the Alistair Kinnear person is really someone else and no one wants to pin the finger.