425's Roulette v4: Hiatus

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

Buddyhunter1 vs. The Walrus - man I wish you'd have sent Number Seven because I think 425 will say Doomsday Afternoon drags, but I still think he'll like it more than Voyager

I really don't like Number Seven anywhere near as much as Doomsday Afternoon. I guess the middle of it (Thank You For The Evil, A Wasteland Of Memories) is a bit slow but apart from that it's got an excellent flow. And at least I didn't send Infernal.

I would have sent Snowtorch.

[The Walrus]

No faith. Smh

[Buddyhunter1]

Why don't you actually listen to the album, Walrus

[MoraWintersoul]

Yeah, Voyager is great but I really think Sam is gonna love the Phideaux album.

[The Walrus]

Why don't you actually listen to the album, Walrus

Someone's gotta be in Voyager's corner 

[425]

An update on how things are going: At the end of today, I will have gone through everything once. My goal is to go through them all three times. Needless to say, the pace on this roulette is going to be longer than one round per week. I knew this and that's why I limited the number of rounds. I also made a plan to keep things interesting during the long rounds. Instead of posting all the results at once at the end of the week, I'll be posting the results to each matchup as I finish it. This way, starting in 2-3 days, results will be coming in every day or two, instead of radio silence for a while and eventually all the results at once

To add to the intrigue in the meantime...

I have heard songs from all of these artists in previous roulettes. Sometimes including songs from these very albums. This post will catalogue the relevant writeups. They may not have anything to do with how I ultimate feel about any of these albums—they may not even reflect how I currently feel about the songs in question, especially in the case of the really old ones from my first roulette, but it will provide an interesting baseline. I'll even embarrass myself by posting the writeup where I confused a male singer for a female one.

Marillion - Sugar Mice

I had, of course, previously heard of Marillion and had heard this mentioned as one of the best songs from the band and even of its genre. Shamefully, I had not given it a pass until now. Fortunately, this submission has corrected that.

This song pairs its absolutely devastating lyrics with a very good musical approach to create a really emotionally powerful piece the likes of which you really are not likely to hear in this style (at least, in my opinion). On the surface, this song doesn’t seem that notable, but it really is. The vocal melodies are really excellent. The playing is fantastic, just a cut above. I’d known Pete Trewavas from Transatlantic, so I knew to listen for excellent bass playing, and I wasn’t disappointed.

But ultimately, this song is about the lyrical message. Which is just devastating. This is a very sad song indeed, and the music (particularly the singing) captures the sense of regret portrayed in the lyrics extremely well. “Your daddy took a rain check.” Wow.

Score: 8.5

Pain of Salvation - Undertow

Another band that I probably should have checked out by now, but hadn’t yet. And another band that I’m learning I should have checked out.

This song builds a really great vibe in its first couple of minutes. The guitar playing and the synths/keys set the scene in a really compelling fashion. Daniel Gildenlöw’s singing is really nice. His voice is soft with just the right amount of roughness to fit with the emotion of the piece.

The crescendo is probably the best part of the song. Gildenlöw’s voice becomes really outstanding on the climax of the song. He builds a great deal of emotional power and makes the song feel as desperate as it does. “Let me drain! Let me die!” And then the ending brings it full-circle quite nicely. This is quite a good piece and one that has definitely encouraged me to give Pain of Salvation a look.

Score: 8.5

Phideaux - The Claws of a Crayfish

This is really an unusual song that stands out a bit even in a round of fairly unusual songs. I suppose part of it is that it’s a part of a concept album, but to its credit, it really does stand on its own as a little epic.

What really jumps out about this piece to me is the multi-instrumental nature of it. There’s a lot going on, musically, with string sections and saxophone players accompanying the traditional prog-rock instrumentation. The piano player may be the standout musician, though its hard to point one person out when so many musicians must have been involved in coming together to make such a seamless-sounding piece of music. The singer is a bit unusual-sounding, very high-pitched, but his voice is quite pretty.

This is a song that I could still get more out of with several more listens, and I’m sure I will also enjoy unpacking the whole concept album. I really enjoy quite a bit the way that the song goes through so many different sections and brings in so many different instruments in a very short running time. Definitely an artist to look into.

Score: 8.5

Ulver starts things off with Eos. Which is spectacular. It’s a very quiet opener, featuring a keyboard and vocal dominated soundscape. I really love the sad atmosphere, which is perfectly captured by the album artwork. The vocals here are perhaps the most spectacular part of the whole piece. The singer’s deep voice brings a lot to the overall atmosphere of this song. This song is really excellent and resonnates a lot with me emotionally. My favorite of this EP and probably my favorite of the entire round.

Glen Hansard - Bird of Sorrow

Every time I come back to this song, it seems, I remember again how good it is. When I’m not listening to it, I find myself doubting that it deserves to get massive marks. Probably why I’ve made noises in the thread to the effect that no one will get anything near a perfect score in this round—I keep forgetting just how good this song is.

Obviously the piano and subtle guitar are important to the atmosphere of this song, but the real strength is in his voice and the vocal melodies. These melodies just flow—each one into the next on the chorus. It’s a really incredible thing, the way each one perfectly follows into the next one. His voice is just perfectly suited to the song and it’s really very good how he transitions from the quieter early verses to the loud, wails of “I’m not leaving” “I’m hanging on” in the climax of this song.

This is a really, really good song. Well composed, amazingly performed, and tearjerking, really. As I think everyone has said already, which is why I don’t feel the need to write volumes about this one. This is definitely the best song of the roulette thus far. I guess the only thing left is, will I be hitting those one and five keys [the maximum score in this roulette was 15]?

The Mars Volta - Son et lumiere/Inertiatic ESP

Snippet: I'm not really a fan of the lyrics on this one, so it's a question of how much they detract from some pretty enjoyable instrumentation.

I’ve heard a lot about The Mars Volta, but I don’t think I had ever listened to one of their songs. My first reaction was one of surprise—I don’t know what I had expected, but it wasn’t anything as melodic or dynamic as this. The vocal melodies are quite good, especially on the first verse, and chorus riff is memorable.

Now, as for what I didn’t like: For one thing, I did not particularly enjoy the quiet part at the end, from the last verse to the end of the song. There were some elements of dissonance introduced there that I wasn’t keen on.

But my far more significant complaint was indicated in my snippet: the lyrics. I do not like lyrics that talk about morbid and disgusting things. I don’t care if there’s some artistic effect they are meant to achieve—they just make me feel gross. And that’s how the lyrics of this song make me feel.

The music here is mostly good, and would probably be worthy of at least a 7. But one of the tests I’m using in scoring this roulette is how likely I am to come back to this song, and whether the song makes me want to hear more from this artist. The dissonant stuff and the lyrics push this one down by that standard.

Score: 6 out of 10

Marillion - Neverland

Snippet: I enjoy this song a lot. But I do feel like there's so much to digest that I couldn't fully get it all in the context of a roulette round.

My experience with Marillion is positive, but it is limited to having received Sugar Mice in my v1 and enjoyed it. This was, of course, a song from a much later era of Marillion, but it was no less enjoyable experience—and one that showed me that this band is capable of a long, proggier composition.

The instrumentation here just works for me. It’s skillful without being overplayed, the guitar tones are nice, and there’s a nice diversity in instrumentation (acoustic and electric guitar, piano, keyboard and some nice prominent bass). The vocals are pretty nice, too. The singer hits all the emotional notes, and his voice fits with the music.

My one regret with this one is that, as the snippet suggests, there is so much here that I don’t think I was able to take all of it in. I think this is the potential downside of sending a long, multifaceted song. I don’t think you’ll be unhappy with this score, just as I am certainly not unhappy with this song but I can see it growing more down the road as I give it more time and more listens.

Even though this is long, and it’s one of those songs that feels as long as it is, it does not feel at any point unjustified. It really sprawls out and works with the full 12 minutes to achieve a really nice effect. I guessed it was the last song on the album before I even looked up, and I’m sure it’s great in that capacity. This has definitely motivated me to more fully investigate Marillion.

Score: 8 out of 10

Witherfall - What We Are Dying For

Snippet: The acoustic guitar work is the most impressive part of this one.

Off the bat, this song kind of worried me a little bit. I am not really a fan of thrash metal, and I don’t really enjoy songs that just build up a lot of fast, heavy riffs with fairly generic vocal melodies.

This is, fortunately, not that sort of song. Sure, there is the speed metal part that takes up the first several minutes of the song, and it is indeed my least favorite part of the song. But it avoids being too generic, and it works as part of the whole piece.

I really find it interesting that this one starts out going as hard and heavy as it ever does, and then gradually slows things down into a clean guitar section. It’s the reverse of the kind of build-up that is enjoyable but typical of the genre. And this section really is the highlight for me, because the acoustic guitar work is really very interesting here—far removed from the kind of generic strumming you could imagine if they just did an acoustic part for the sake of it.

As a bonus, between the two metal parts and the nice acoustic middle, I feel like this song gets a lot done in less than seven minutes. I always like it when that happens.

Score: 7.5 out of 10

Sieges Even - Unbreakable

Snippet: There are some great vocal harmonies on this one. There's just one small section of instrumentation that I'm not crazy about.

I don’t know exactly how I would categorize this song, except that I would categorize it as something that I like. Even though this is a metal band, they use the metal elements selectively and for color. Instead, the emphasis is on some sparkling clean guitar work and emotive vocals. The vocal harmonies are a highlight here, adding to the emotional power of the singing.

The only section that I outright like here is the high pitched guitar/keyboard parts in the middle of the song [this sentence confuses me; maybe this was the only section I *didn't* outright like? sorry, don't know anymore]. But, in the final analysis, it doesn’t detract heavily from my overall enjoyment of the song. Overall, I do think the song is noticeably stronger on the vocal parts than on the instrumentals, but many of those instrumental section do their task perfectly well. This is an enjoyable track.

Score: 7.5 out of 10

Ulver - Nowhere (Sweet Sixteen)

I didn't know there was such a thing as live Zantera/Sacul music! But here it is, nonetheless.

This is a piece that really goes for a depressing, spacey vibe, especially on the chorus, where ominous, deep vocals (alternating with high, wailing ones) repeat the refrain "Nowhere... catastrophe."

This style of music, I've made no secret, is not my bread and butter. But this is a well-executed piece that I have come to enjoy pretty well. There's enough of a melodic sensibility to keep me hooked, and the vibe is quite compelling.

Score 8 out of 10

Pain of Salvation - Handful of Nothing

Snippet: I can respect what they’re doing here and can almost feel what they’re reaching for... but like other things I've heard from them, I'm just not quite feeling it yet.

Yeah, so Pain of Salvation is a band that I've heard a few songs from, and my view of all of them is that they are technically pretty good, but I just don't quite feel them.

My assessment here is somewhat more positive. I think it helps that this is a live performance. Gildenlöw's vocal acrobatics are more obviously impressive, given that he's capable of carrying off this diversity in a live setting, and the whole thing is a bit looser and more lively.

The song has a nice diversity of elements, and it's one where all the pieces feel pretty strong. The chorus really anchors it. That plus a strong performance leads to a nice score.

Score: 8 out of 10

I would describe this EP as really consistent in both style and quality. Everything here is more-or-less straightfoward prog metal, and all the songs range from pretty solid to quite good.

This does not mean there is no sense of variety here. There really is, which is a very good thing. Despite the songs coming from the same basic style, each one has its own identity, which prevents the EP from sounding too same-y. The flow from each song into the next is also strong. This all adds up to a pretty enjoyable listening experience.

...

Song ranking:
...
5. Voyager - To the Riverside (7.5)
...
7. Voyager - Ghost Mile (7.5)

Ultimately, the success of this EP hangs on the success or failure of the Big Big Train song [Curator of Butterflies], in more ways than one. Because while I find the concept interesting and the songs good, the mood is rather gloomier than I would like to follow for a long period of time. So the finale needs not only to break the pattern of declines, but also give some brightness to the close of the EP.

So, does it succeed? I kind of don’t know? Sort of? I do like it, and I do think it is a better song than the preceding two—there’s actually a lot of good stuff going on here musically. But I don’t find it to be the hopeful ending I would have wanted (indeed, the written concept does not have a hopeful ending). There’s something about it that actually bothers me, though I find I have a hard time describing it. There’s something I find unsatisfying about this ending. And that kind of ends up being generalized to a feel about the EP as a whole.

The Voyager track [Sober] was a pleasant surprise. I really overlooked it the first few times and grouped it with the prior two into a trio of bleak songs that I didn’t much care for, but on further listens I’m really hearing a lot of creative depth here. The dynamics just feel like they work effortlessly, but they’re actually bolstered by nice subtle work from the keyboard player and vocalist. This, along with the Arcade Fire songs, is the other highlight of the EP.

Soen - Lotus

Impression: The adjective that comes to mind for this one is “smooth.” From the subtle guitar work to the vocal melodies to the singer’s emotional delivery, the whole thing just feels so smooth. I’m into it.

I think I’ve said it as best as I can already in the impression. This song is so smooth, and I love it. There’s a ton of emotion in this one, carried out through precise and beautifully executed guitar and vocal work.

This is one of those songs that doesn’t try to reinvent the wheel or do anything too far out of the ordinary, but does an expected thing unexpectedly well. Every note is in the right place, and the experience is excellent all the way through. A very well-crafted piece of music.

Score: 9.0 out of 10.

[TAC]

Great idea.


Oh boy.. 

[Buddyhunter1]

Why don't you actually listen to the album, Walrus

Someone's gotta be in Voyager's corner 

What is this, a marriage? I've listened to your album! And I've been trying to get you to listen to Doomsday Afternoon for a while now!

[Crow]

okay yeah RIP to TMV then based on that previous score haha 

[twosuitsluke]

okay yeah RIP to TMV then based on that previous score haha 

Wait until you see what I'm planning on sending next 

[Crow]

A Novelist?

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

At the Drive In?

[HOF]

I had looked up your thoughts on Curator of Butterflies before sending. I will say, I’ve always thought that was just a gorgeous track, but my wife also thought it was really depressing. It is a little lyrically ambiguous as to whether it’s about suicide or not, but the band have clarified that it is not meant to be (more just a reflection on the brevity of life I think).

[425]

It could very well be that my impression of that track was affected significantly by the context of it being on someone's very cohesive, story-based EP.

[Evermind]

Yeah, it was 100% about suicide on that someone's EP

[425]

Overall, I think you want to be careful if you're thinking about making me depressed. Especially with something EP- or album-length. Other things being equal, it's a far better bet to lift me up than it is to break me down.

*several roulette participants suddenly feel somewhat less comfortable, some of them for good reason* 

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I hope Marbles goes over well then.....It's a bit of a rollercoaster ride lyrically. It isn't a concept album exactly, but it also kind of is.....sort of. Or more maybe thematic in nature. It does end on a more hopeful note with Neverland though.

[Crow]

i mean i guess TPE is not Happy Music yes 
i like anything that's really emotionally impactful personally and uhh

it qualifies, lol

[425]

I really struggle to describe exactly what I mean when I talk about this, because it would just not be accurate to say that I only or even mainly like happy music. There are certain types of unhappy music that I have a hard time with. It's not a fully adequate description, but the type that gives off the feeling that there's no point to life at all, that life is inevitably miserable or painful, is one of the major types that I will have a very hard time with. The kind of sadness that has more of a quality of numbness and futility to it rather than the kind that has more of a quality of grand tragedy.

That's a really imprecise description, but I really want to convey what I mean here, so I'm going to keep trying.

[Evermind]

Yeah, I guess I kind of forgot about that when I decided to send Soen.

[Elite]

Ooooh, that wrote-up for Sober by Voyager reminds me of that very EP I made!
I should return to that one, it was good, I still have it on my computer

[Sacul]

Yeah, I guess I kind of forgot about that when I decided to send Soen.

Hope he likes the cool swingy jazz fusion kinda stuff at least

[Buddyhunter1]

Mine's incredibly bleak lyrically but less depressing musically, let's see how it works out

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I really struggle to describe exactly what I mean when I talk about this, because it would just not be accurate to say that I only or even mainly like happy music. There are certain types of unhappy music that I have a hard time with. It's not a fully adequate description, but the type that gives off the feeling that there's no point to life at all, that life is inevitably miserable or painful, is one of the major types that I will have a very hard time with. The kind of sadness that has more of a quality of numbness and futility to it rather than the kind that has more of a quality of grand tragedy.

That's a really imprecise description, but I really want to convey what I mean here, so I'm going to keep trying.

So like, Nihilism?

[Buddyhunter1]

I really struggle to describe exactly what I mean when I talk about this, because it would just not be accurate to say that I only or even mainly like happy music. There are certain types of unhappy music that I have a hard time with. It's not a fully adequate description, but the type that gives off the feeling that there's no point to life at all, that life is inevitably miserable or painful, is one of the major types that I will have a very hard time with. The kind of sadness that has more of a quality of numbness and futility to it rather than the kind that has more of a quality of grand tragedy.

That's a really imprecise description, but I really want to convey what I mean here, so I'm going to keep trying.

So like, Nihilism?

Acceptable depressing: Steven Wilson
Non-acceptable depressing: Have A Nice Life

[HOF]

I really struggle to describe exactly what I mean when I talk about this, because it would just not be accurate to say that I only or even mainly like happy music. There are certain types of unhappy music that I have a hard time with. It's not a fully adequate description, but the type that gives off the feeling that there's no point to life at all, that life is inevitably miserable or painful, is one of the major types that I will have a very hard time with. The kind of sadness that has more of a quality of numbness and futility to it rather than the kind that has more of a quality of grand tragedy.

That's a really imprecise description, but I really want to convey what I mean here, so I'm going to keep trying.

So like, Nihilism?

Acceptable depressing: Steven Wilson
Non-acceptable depressing: Have A Nice Life

See, Steven Wilson/PT is who I was thinking of with 425’s description. That’s been a hang up for me with his music for sure.

[The Walrus]

I agree that angsty/woe is me prog is pretty bad

[Evermind]

I do not agree with that at all. I mean, I'm a fan of Evergrey and Need

[The Walrus]

I do not agree with that at all. I mean, I'm a fan of Evergrey and Need

You and I are 100% opposites when it comes to prog music though. I got shivers just reading that. 

[romdrums]

I hope Marbles goes over well then.....It's a bit of a rollercoaster ride lyrically. It isn't a concept album exactly, but it also kind of is.....sort of. Or more maybe thematic in nature. It does end on a more hopeful note with Neverland though.

Did you send the 1 disc version or the 2 disc version?  I have both, and I think the 2-disc version is miles better.  The added songs really complete the experience, and the revised running order puts a whole different spin on the whole thing.  Marbles is a masterpiece, and I think it's some of the most inspired work they've ever done.  I've never really thought of it as hopeless, because even in the darkest lyrics (Invisible Man, The Only Unforgivable Thing, Ocean Cloud) there is a ray of light.  It is an emotional rollercoaster, especially lyrically, but I think it pays off beautifully.

[425]

So like, Nihilism?

Yes. That's probably the most precise one-word description for it.

Acceptable depressing: Steven Wilson
Non-acceptable depressing: Have A Nice Life

See, Steven Wilson/PT is who I was thinking of with 425’s description. That’s been a hang up for me with his music for sure.

Agreed with HOF, and I think I specifically used Wilson as an example earlier in this thread.

I think Wilson is a great songwriter, and I like The Raven That Refused to Sing and the last five Porcupine Tree albums. But I almost never listen to them because I don't like the way they tend to make me feel. I stopped following him after I found Hand. Cannot. Erase. even more oppressive in this sense than most of the Wilson stuff I'd heard and liked. I thought: I have enough of this guy's stuff to listen to on the rare occasions when I'm in the appropriate mindset, and outside of that I should just seek out great songwriters that make me feel better.

To give another example, I also generally feel this way about pre-Ghost Reveries Opeth. I agree with those who call Blackwater Park a brilliant album, but good lord, it's too dark for me listen to more than once every couple of years.

I do not agree with that at all. I mean, I'm a fan of Evergrey and Need

I like Hegaiamas, though I've only listened to it a couple of times, and don't think I'd put it in this category. From what I've heard, I don't think I'd put Evergrey in this category either, but they haven't clicked with me yet for other reasons.

[Crow]

well at the very least my other three albums are way more uplifting? 

[Buddyhunter1]

I might have to change what I was planning on sending next round. 

[Sacul]

Well I hope you don't find my album too depressing, I think it's sort of uplifting

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

I hope Marbles goes over well then.....It's a bit of a rollercoaster ride lyrically. It isn't a concept album exactly, but it also kind of is.....sort of. Or more maybe thematic in nature. It does end on a more hopeful note with Neverland though.

Did you send the 1 disc version or the 2 disc version?  I have both, and I think the 2-disc version is miles better.  The added songs really complete the experience, and the revised running order puts a whole different spin on the whole thing.  Marbles is a masterpiece, and I think it's some of the most inspired work they've ever done.  I've never really thought of it as hopeless, because even in the darkest lyrics (Invisible Man, The Only Unforgivable Thing, Ocean Cloud) there is a ray of light.  It is an emotional rollercoaster, especially lyrically, but I think it pays off beautifully.

The 1 disc version doesn't exist.....change my mind...