NHL (2020-2021) v. Draft, sign, & trade.

[pg1067]

That would be nice, but Gary Thorne is almost just as old as Doc Emrick, so I'm not sure if Thorne is up for the travel and the grind.

I don't know...one game a week?  Vin Scully did full baseball seasons well past Thorne's current age.

But obviously, I don't know either whether Thorne would want to do it.

[TAC]

I loved Gary Thorne. He was the best.

[KevShmev]

Gary Thorne was good, for sure. 

[Hyperplex]

Gary Thorne was my absolute favorite. People got on him for his yelling, etc. but I feel like that just added to the excitement. Nothing matched when he yelled "SCORE!" for a goal and it synced up with the sounds from the arena. It created a sense of excitement at home that put it closer to the level of being at the arena. I miss it.

[romdrums]

Goddamn it's frustrating being a Wings fan right now.  They finally give Evgeni Svechnikov some playing time, and he responds with 4 points in 4 games playing limited minutes.  So what does Jeff Blashill do?  Scratches him for last night's game against Tampa.  Makes absolutely zero sense.  I trust in the Yzer-plan, but I don't understand why has-beens like Filppula, Nielsen, and Helm are getting playing time over young guys like Michael Rasmussen, Svechnikov, and Givani Smith.   

[KevShmev]

I have to admit that I smile every time I look at the standings and see Detroit's awful record.  I will hate that team for as long as I am breathing. 

[jingle.boy]

I have to admit that I smile every time I look at the standings and see Detroit's awful record.  I will hate that team for as long as I am breathing. 

Kinda like me with Boston!

[SystematicThought]

I'm just kinda surprised Detroit hasn't moved on from the coach.

[Anguyen92]

I think, for teams, if they want to properly do a rebuild right, there has to come a point where they are going to need to win games in streaks to show promises and start building that winning culture.  You can tank as long as possible, and hope to luck out for a top pick, but you got to have a roster to show some promise and the right coach that can guide the kids and the aging veterans (that may look unmotivated) to have a winning mentality. 

Otherwise, you have teams like the current Senators, Red Wings (although Stevie Y. seems to have a plan and given what he has done in Tampa Bay and his legacy with the Red Wings, I'm sure it will pan out well eventually), and Sabres or the early 2010s Oilers that seems to always get #1 in the Draft.

[gmillerdrake]

Blues extend Binnington, 6 years, $36 million.

[KevShmev]

Blues extend Binnington, 6 years, $36 million.

Just saw that. Love it. 

[gmillerdrake]

Blues extend Binnington, 6 years, $36 million.

Just saw that. Love it.

Yeah. I’ll take it. He’s been solid this season....five of his losses he’s held the other team to two goal or less. He’s a reliable starter and is certainly a character.

Structure of contract:

Year 1, $4 M
Year 2, $6 M
Year 3, $7.5 M
Year 4, $7.5 M
Year 5, $6.5 M
Year 6, $4.5 M

First three years full no trade. After that it’s limited to a small number of teams.

[pg1067]

So...here's a question for the peanut gallery:

I've noticed this season that the Kings' color analyst (Jim Fox) has been referring to Jonathan Quick as a "Hall of Fame goalie" or to Quick's "Hall of Fame career."  That took me a bit by surprise, and I hadn't really given the subject any real thought.  Obviously, he won two Cups and got the Conn Smythe in 2012.  I see he's 27th on the all-time goalie win list, but there are lots of eligible guys ahead of him who aren't in the HOF (but also lots of guys behind him who are in).

Jim Fox is a bit of a homer, but he's also pretty realistic in most of his assessments, so I'm wondering what others think about this.

[TAC]

I'm surprised to see he was only a two time all star. Is that right?

Two Cups, Two Jennings, and a Conn Smythe.


I've always considered him to be a premier goalie over the last decade. Maybe he is actually borderline, but I think I expect him to go into the Hall.

[TAC]

Auston Matthews' OT goal tonight was FILTHY.

[jingle.boy]

Auston Matthews' OT goal tonight was FILTHY.

That whole final play was a trainwreck though - Leafs got luck to hold off that 3-on-2 after Reilly's stick was slashed in half (btw, how was that NOT a penalty??).

Everyone ought to watch the full highlight package of Connor Hellebucyk's performance.  I can't remember the last time I saw a goalie almost steal a game like he did tonight.  He stole the game on Tuesday, and nearly did it again - seriously, the Leafs could've won that on 6 or 7-2 (the Jets' 3rd / tying goal was with Hellebucyk pulled).  The Leafs had 3 clear breakaways, 2 crossbars, and about another dozen 5 star chances.  Also check the dangle Tavares had on their 2nd goal, he danced thru 4 Jets to feed Nylander.  Ehlers' two goals were absolutely beautiful and perfect shots.  This was the best game I've watched in a long time.

[romdrums]

I think, for teams, if they want to properly do a rebuild right, there has to come a point where they are going to need to win games in streaks to show promises and start building that winning culture.  You can tank as long as possible, and hope to luck out for a top pick, but you got to have a roster to show some promise and the right coach that can guide the kids and the aging veterans (that may look unmotivated) to have a winning mentality. 

Otherwise, you have teams like the current Senators, Red Wings (although Stevie Y. seems to have a plan and given what he has done in Tampa Bay and his legacy with the Red Wings, I'm sure it will pan out well eventually), and Sabres or the early 2010s Oilers that seems to always get #1 in the Draft.

The problem is Blashill, like Babcock in his later years in Detroit, seems to want to break his skill players.  Grinders and defense-first (haha!) players seem to have it way easier.  Young skill guys don't seem to be able to crack the lineup, despite their performance.  He's messed with Anthony Mantha to the point that Mantha seems like he doesn't want the puck most nights, even though he's their best possession player.  Meanwhile, guys like Darren Helm and Adam Erne can't seem to suck enough to play themselves out of the lineup.  So damn frustrating.  And to top it off, the Wings will probably finish with one of the three worst records in the league and somehow pick 6th because the rules for the lottery suck.

[Anguyen92]

Well, I've been reading that there are talks about the lottery rules changing where teams that wins the draft lottery can only go up 10 spots in the draft and that there are going to be only two lottery winners (instead of 3) meaning, at worst, a dead-last team can only drop as far as #3.

These lottery rules keeps getting confusing every year.

[pg1067]

I'm surprised to see he was only a two time all star. Is that right?

Two Cups, Two Jennings, and a Conn Smythe.

I've always considered him to be a premier goalie over the last decade. Maybe he is actually borderline, but I think I expect him to go into the Hall.

I think you're right about the ASG.

The first time I hear Fox say it, my initial thought was "nah."  Maybe, but I feel like Fox is pushing it a bit too hard -- like it's obvious.

[jingle.boy]

I don't think Quick's current stats make him an shoe-in or automatic for the HOF.  He could be, sure, but I don't think it should be considered a "HOF career".

[KevShmev]

That goes back to what I was saying a few weeks back about there being no goalies since Roy, Hasek and Brodeur who are no-brainer Hall of Famers/all-time great/however I worded it.  People talked like Lundqvist was so awesome, but even he only won one Vezina and never won a Cup.

[jingle.boy]

That goes back to what I was saying a few weeks back about there being no goalies since Roy, Hasek and Brodeur who are no-brainer Hall of Famers/all-time great/however I worded it.  People talked like Lundqvist was so awesome, but even he only won one Vezina and never won a Cup.

Yeah, and the fact that CuJo isn't in the HHOF indicates how important trophies are.  It'll be interesting to see if Hank gets in, and/or Quick.  If the latter does, than Cups and trophies matter more than aggregate career performance.

[pg1067]

That goes back to what I was saying a few weeks back about there being no goalies since Roy, Hasek and Brodeur who are no-brainer Hall of Famers/all-time great/however I worded it.  People talked like Lundqvist was so awesome, but even he only won one Vezina and never won a Cup.

Yeah, and the fact that CuJo isn't in the HHOF indicates how important trophies are.  It'll be interesting to see if Hank gets in, and/or Quick.  If the latter does, than Cups and trophies matter more than aggregate career performance.

Goalies with the most wins who aren't in the HOF (* denotes active):

3. Roberto Luongo - 489
5. *Marc-Andre Fleury - 478
6. *Henrik Lundqvist - 459
7. Curtis Joseph - 454
13. Chris Osgood - 401
14T. *Ryan Miller - 389
16. Mike Vernon - 385
17. John Vanbiesbrouck - 374
18. Andy Moog - 372
19. Tom Barrasso - 369
20. *Pekka Rinne - 365
21. *Carey Price - 356
22T. Evgeni Nabokov - 353
24. Cam Ward - 334
25. Nikolai Khabibulin - 333
27. *Jonathan Quick - 331
29. Sean Burke - 324
30. Mikka Kiprusoff - 319
31. Kari Lehtonen - 310
34. Olaf Kolzig - 303
35. Mike Richter - 301

The 14 players on that list who are HOF-eligible, have, between them:
 - Four Vezinas (Barrasso, Vanbiesbrouck, Kolzig and Kiprusoff)
 - Four Jennings Trophies (Barrasso, Moog, Osgood/Vernon and Kiprusoff)
 - Two Conn Smythes (Vernon and Ward)
 - 13 Stanley Cups (Osgood (3), Moog (3), Barrasso (2), Vernon (2), Ward, Khabibulin and Richter)
 - A bunch of international medals (I didn't look)

Kinda hard to understand why Vernon and Barrasso aren't in.  Quick has all of those things, so maybe he's a stronger candidate than I thought.  Luongo will be an interesting test case.  Third most wins of all time (although Fleury might knock him down to fourth).  Several international medals, but ZERO NHL hardware.

And Kev's point is well-taken.

[jingle.boy]

Osgood too... though I gather the thought process is that the Ilitch family plumber could've slapped on a pair of pads and probably got almost that many wins and a couple of cups given the powerhouse that was Detroit when he played.  Plus, one ring was as a backup to Vernon.  Moog is interesting, since all three Cups were as a backup, but most of his career as a clear #1 starter was largely good, but rarely great (even though he was my 2nd fave goalie as a kid).

[pg1067]

Osgood too... though I gather the thought process is that the Ilitch family plumber could've slapped on a pair of pads and probably got almost that many wins and a couple of cups given the powerhouse that was Detroit when he played.  Plus, one ring was as a backup to Vernon.  Moog is interesting, since all three Cups were as a backup, but most of his career as a clear #1 starter was largely good, but rarely great (even though he was my 2nd fave goalie as a kid).

I assume that's the thinking as well.  I also got the impression (as a jealous observer from afar) that Wings fans kinda felt like they won in spite of, rather than because of, Osgood.

[romdrums]

Osgood too... though I gather the thought process is that the Ilitch family plumber could've slapped on a pair of pads and probably got almost that many wins and a couple of cups given the powerhouse that was Detroit when he played.  Plus, one ring was as a backup to Vernon.  Moog is interesting, since all three Cups were as a backup, but most of his career as a clear #1 starter was largely good, but rarely great (even though he was my 2nd fave goalie as a kid).

I assume that's the thinking as well.  I also got the impression (as a jealous observer from afar) that Wings fans kinda felt like they won in spite of, rather than because of, Osgood.

Osgood would have won the Conn Smythe if the Wings had repeated in 2009, and a good case can be made for him winning it in 2008 as well, as him coming on in relief of Hasek in that 2008 run was a key to their winning the Cup.  In his first stint with the team, he didn't need to do much.  He basically needed to pay attention in case the Wings let the puck into their defensive zone, which back then, didn't happen too often.  He was cool, level-headed, and thick-skinned, which you have to be to play goalie in Detroit. 

[KevShmev]

Osgood was awesome at giving up the occasional goal from center ice.   

[pg1067]

Osgood was awesome at giving up the occasional goal from center ice.   

He was trying to one-up Jon Casey.   

[KevShmev]

I will always have a soft spot for Jon Casey. Sure, he gave up that goal to Yzerman in Game 7 (that was not a weak goal to let in; it was just a bad ass shot by Yzerman), but after that asswipe Kypreos took out Grant Fuhr with a cheap shot early in round 1, Casey played great in relief before that loss to the Red Wings.  They never get to a Game 7 against that Red Wings team without Casey being money (Game 2 vs Detroit notwithstanding).

[gmillerdrake]

I will always have a soft spot for Jon Casey. Sure, he gave up that goal to Yzerman in Game 7 (that was not a weak goal to let in; it was just a bad ass shot by Yzerman), but after that asswipe Kypreos took out Grant Fuhr with a cheap shot early in round 1, Casey played great in relief before that loss to the Red Wings.  They never get to a Game 7 against that Red Wings team without Casey being money (Game 2 vs Detroit notwithstanding).

Watch that game. They don’t get to the OT in that game without Casey. It should have been 4 or 5 to nothing after the first period. Dude stood on his head that game. Blues blew three GOLDEN opportunities to win that game prior to the now famous Yzerman shot. That loss was far from Casey’s fault......if anything it was that fossil Anderson who missed two of the three wide open goals.

[Anguyen92]

I look at that Yzerman goal, here and there sometimes, and when he shot it from the blue line, there was 3-4 Blues players around him.  If they thought he was going to a shot from that area, wouldn't they have done something to make sure it wasn't the perfect opportunity for Yzerman to take the shot?  I wouldn't really want to put that one on the goalie.

[KevShmev]

Watch that game. They don’t get to the OT in that game without Casey. It should have been 4 or 5 to nothing after the first period. Dude stood on his head that game. Blues blew three GOLDEN opportunities to win that game prior to the now famous Yzerman shot. That loss was far from Casey’s fault......if anything it was that fossil Anderson who missed two of the three wide open goals.

I don't remember much of the game (I have refused to watch it again since), but I trust that what you are saying is correct.

I look at that Yzerman goal, here and there sometimes, and when he shot it from the blue line, there was 3-4 Blues players around him.  If they thought he was going to a shot from that area, wouldn't they have done something to make sure it wasn't the perfect opportunity for Yzerman to take the shot?  I wouldn't really want to put that one on the goalie.

I don't put blame on anyone for that goal.  Sometimes a guy makes an all-time play and you just have to tip your cap.  And that is what Yzerman did there.

[TAC]

Looking at that list is relevant to something I've actually been thinking about recently, and I almost threw it out there ITT.


Marc-Andre Fleury..HOFer?

[pg1067]

Looking at that list is relevant to something I've actually been thinking about recently, and I almost threw it out there ITT.


Marc-Andre Fleury..HOFer?

He'll be #3 on the all time win list when he retires.  He's got three Cups and five SCF appearances (with him being the #1 goalie and a critical piece of the team for the first Cup and first two SCF appearances.  He backstopped an expansion team to the SCF.  And he's got an Olympic gold medal.  Interestingly, Fleury and Quick are tied for 34th on the all-time save percentage leader board.

No Vezina or Jennings, but I think you'd be hard pressed not to put him in.

[KevShmev]

Not sure MAF has ever even been a Vezina finalist, but I suspect he will make due to all of that postseason success, his large body of work (all of those wins), and the lack of his era having a dominant goalie ala Roy, Hasek or Brodeur.  If we argued about who the best goalie is of the last 10-12 years, he'd have about as good a case as anyone.